Thought I'd share, as many of us have talked about wheel challenges...and I've been through my share.
By way of background, I'm around 6'4 / 230, and often use the bike to commute (38 miles round trip). So, between me, 2 water bottles, the bike and a bag that includes the laptop, weights can push 270. I'm pretty strong, and have been known to pop wheels out of true when standing to climb, which I do a lot. Bike is a kona JTS, and I have the deep vs as summer / distance wheels. I go through chains every 800 miles, and have in the past broken several spokes, a rim,bent a chaingring and destroyed 2 bottom brackets.
The wheels were handbuilt by SpinLite, and I'm running 36h in the back and 28 in the front, on Ultegra hubs. I clean them when I clean the rest of the bike, and have ridden them in the rain and on dirt trails (hey, it's a cross bike). I'm running 700x28 conti ultra gatorskins. Other than that, I've got reflective tape on the V section to make me more visible at night. I did not have them re-tensioned after 100 miles, as they didn't need it. They are also the first new wheels I've ever had that didn't "pop" when i first rode them.
After 1,000 miles, I figured I'd put the stock wheels back on the bike (wanted more grip on the wet leaves that the 38s on there afford) and bring the wheels to a local wheel builder who has a great reputation. I went by to pick them up last night. His assessment -- perfectly true, in great shape. He upped the tension on the front a little, but that was it.
Getting these has in a way "saved" cycling for me. I used to be tentative, and always look back after a bump or a climb to see how my wheels were. It was no fun, and it actually led me to not ride at times.
These are the stiffest and strongest wheels I've ever ridden, and I've stopped worrying about them. They are heavy, but I kind of like the way they carry momentum. I can't overstate the difference this has made, and the value of a quality hand-build using good parts (rims, spokes, nipples and hubs).
Mr. Beanz
11-13-07, 09:48 AM
Great and may I say. "told you so!":D I have been prechin' Deep V for years to all my clyde friends. If even only on the rear. Some ave given up cycling as a result of failing wheels. But for some silly reason, they aren't willing to try the V. I can't understand why heavy guys insist on the cool looking lite stuff. I'm out to ride rather than to flash the cool factor.
I'm glad you took them to a good rep wheel dude that retensioned them for you. 100 miles is early, I've always done it at 400 or so, 1000 is great! One of the biggest problems is that riders don't take them back for a retension, glad you did. I have about 10,000 on the wheel I built with ZERO problems now and I run 23 Continentals.
Isn't it heaven to ride your bike without the thought of sucky wheels in the back of your mind?:D
TallSteve
11-13-07, 06:02 PM
I am glad to hear this as I have ordered Deep Vs with ultegra hubs for my Cannondale. I cant wait! Especially, since I have broken two spokes so far.....
chunkyd
11-13-07, 07:38 PM
100+ on the Deep V's ..I ordered mine after popping spokes constantly and
they have been a dream ever since. I followed Mr.Beans advice too..haha
Daveyboy
11-13-07, 09:48 PM
I've also been eyeing a pair of Velocity Deep V's on Ultegra hubs from a local wheel builder. I've also heard the the DT Swiss 1.1 is as strong as the Velocity Deep V, but just a little lighter. I don't usually worry too much about saving weight, except for possibly rotating wieght. Any thoughts?
Tom Stormcrowe
11-13-07, 09:54 PM
Well, the rotational weight, on a long steady pace ride is actually an advantage. ;) Flywheel effect.....less energy required to maintain the pace. As to the sprint? A Clyde can generate a tremendous amount of torque and the few grams saved have little effect. ;)
Daveyboy
11-13-07, 09:59 PM
OK, so after coming up to speed the extra rotational weight is an advantage? Good point. What about climbing? Advantage, disadvantage or negligable?
Tom Stormcrowe
11-13-07, 10:05 PM
OK, so after coming up to speed the extra rotational weight is an advantage? Good point. What about climbing? Advantage, disadvantage or negligable?
Negligible.
adrien
11-14-07, 07:00 AM
Like everyhting, it's a trade-off.
I did a lot of research, and had open pros for a while...which i couldn't keep trued.
Deep Vs have been really quite extraordinary so far (no tension needed on the rears after 1,000 miles), and there seem to be plenty here with the same experience. I think the DT Swiss is simply much rarer, so there's not much experience with them. But I can tell you that a wheel you don't worry about is a truly great thing.
bigrider
11-14-07, 09:02 PM
OK, help a novice here.
Are deep v's a brand or the name of a type/design, that spans different manufacturers? And if the later, which of the brands of rims seem best? Appreciate your patience here with a possibly stupid question.
Tom Stormcrowe
11-14-07, 09:03 PM
Deep V's are a type and a Brand, from Velocity. There are other names for the type of rim, but the Velocity seems to be the best for the $$.
Air
11-14-07, 11:43 PM
Glad to hear it - I'm pulling the trigger on those soon too :)
v1k1ng1001
11-15-07, 01:52 AM
I have an old set of ultegra/mavic cxp30s that are deep section rims. Unfortunately they're 9spd or I'd be riding them because they're way better than the Bontrager Race wheels that came with my Lemond, the rear failing at 6000 miles.
At any rate, Trek finally sent me a new rear wheel, replaced the chain and cassette, and I can ride again.
Cannondale also sent me a replacement frameset (see below) after about a year of bickering with them.
It feels like Christmas. Except that it is about to snow up here in North Dakota and that means no more riding for me. :(
But I will be down in Texas after Christmas so I will be back on the bike soon!
Tom Stormcrowe
11-15-07, 04:44 AM
Are they 10 speed compatible? Have you looked into conversion?
I have an old set of ultegra/mavic cxp30s that are deep section rims. Unfortunately they're 9spd or I'd be riding them because they're way better than the Bontrager Race wheels that came with my Lemond, the rear failing at 6000 miles.
At any rate, Trek finally sent me a new rear wheel, replaced the chain and cassette, and I can ride again.
Cannondale also sent me a replacement frameset (see below) after about a year of bickering with them.
It feels like Christmas. Except that it is about to snow up here in North Dakota and that means no more riding for me. :(
But I will be down in Texas after Christmas so I will be back on the bike soon!
WheresWaldo
11-15-07, 06:49 AM
Are they 10 speed compatible? Have you looked into conversion?
Tom, I know you asked this already knowing the answer. All 9 speed hubs will accept a 10 speed cluster with the addition of the 1mm spacer. Its 10 speed specific hubs that will not accept a 9 speed cassette because the splines are taller.
Jurgen
11-15-07, 08:51 AM
Did anyone buy them prebuilt online (say, with an Ultegra hub)? I'm thinking of taking advantage of the Cnd. dollar and maybe investing, but need a good source.
Tom Stormcrowe
11-15-07, 09:23 AM
Tom, I know you asked this already knowing the answer. All 9 speed hubs will accept a 10 speed cluster with the addition of the 1mm spacer. Its 10 speed specific hubs that will not accept a 9 speed cassette because the splines are taller.
Actually, I couldn't remember which way it worked :eek: .;)
Since that's the case, Viking, why not convert them ;)
bcart1991
11-15-07, 09:44 AM
Good to hear these are durable rims.
FWIW, I had a set of old (late '90's?) Mavic Cosmic Expert (the all-silver version), 18-hole front and 20-hole rear.
My riding weight varied from 210 lbs to 240+ during the time I had these wheels. Never once did I have the slightest problem or hiccup from the wheels. Then I ran over them following a groggy early-morning ride...:mad:
I thought I could get a similar product from a Ritchey 20-spoke hub/rim, but the rim just isn't strong enough. I was having to true them after nearly every ride. Those will now go to the wife. She's half my size. ;)
I'm now on a set of Zipp/Velocity Deep-V's (20F/28R) and I'm very happy after my first few rides. The hubs are smooooooooooooooooooooooth as buttah, and no rim stength issues at all.
v1k1ng1001
11-15-07, 03:15 PM
Since that's the case, Viking, why not convert them ;)
If I did, I wouldn't have a nine speed wheelset for my commuter, otherwise I'd gladly swap them for the time being.
My plan is to destroy this new Bontrager wheel (it should last me season) and then upgrade once I have more money. Right now funds are pretty tight.
v1k1ng1001
11-15-07, 03:18 PM
FWIW, I had a set of old (late '90's?) Mavic Cosmic Expert (the all-silver version), 18-hole front and 20-hole rear.
My riding weight varied from 210 lbs to 240+ during the time I had these wheels. Never once did I have the slightest problem or hiccup from the wheels. Then I ran over them following a groggy early-morning ride...:mad:
Those Cosmics were very nice. I always wanted a set but I couldn't justify the upgrade from my cxp30/ultegras.
jaxgtr
11-15-07, 06:22 PM
The wheels were handbuilt by SpinLite, and I'm running 36h in the back and 28 in the front, on Ultegra hubs. .
How long did SpinLite take to get them built and to you?
adrien
11-16-07, 04:12 AM
How long did SpinLite take to get them built and to you?
as i recall, i think it was about a week
jaxgtr
11-16-07, 05:55 AM
Thanks.
socalrider
11-16-07, 08:42 AM
I love my deep V's but have been a little more love for my DT Swiss RR 1.1's. They have the same lateral and overall stiffness as the deep V's but weigh 100 grams less per rim.. Coupled with my american Class rear hub and Chris King Front hub at 36h, make for a great wheelset..
The new AC hubs only go up to 32 hole, but the high flange makes for a solid build and they are very lightweight.. http://www.amclassic.com/rd_205_s.html
I also have a handful of Open Pro's and the Deep V's and DT Swiss have a more solid feel on the road..
heavyp
11-16-07, 11:05 AM
Well, the rotational weight, on a long steady pace ride is actually an advantage. ;) Flywheel effect.....less energy required to maintain the pace. As to the sprint? A Clyde can generate a tremendous amount of torque and the few grams saved have little effect. ;)
This is not true. Look at it from an energy balance persepctive and you will see.
I wanted a strong wheelset so I got the Velocity Fusions withe 32/36 spokes. Lighter than the Deep Vs, but extremely strong!
Tom Stormcrowe
11-16-07, 03:25 PM
This is not true. Look at it from an energy balance persepctive and you will see.
I wanted a strong wheelset so I got the Velocity Fusions withe 32/36 spokes. Lighter than the Deep Vs, but extremely strong!
Look at it from the standpoint of the law of conservation of energy and you'll see I'm right ;) That's why a flywheel tends to remain in motion longer if it's heavier. More rotational momentum. Admittedly, the effect isn't large in this case, but it's there. ;) I suspect though that the number of spokes I'm running and aerodynamic resistance has offset any flywheel effect. ;)
v1k1ng1001
11-16-07, 04:05 PM
Look at it from the standpoint of the law of conservation of energy and you'll see I'm right ;) That's why a flywheel tends to remain in motion longer if it's heavier. More rotational momentum. Admittedly, the effect isn't large in this case, but it's there. ;) I suspect though that the number of spokes I'm running and aerodynamic resistance has offset any flywheel effect. ;)
Yes, but the deep section rims will give you an aerodynamic advantage! The big thing is that they suck in the climbing department and when there is a strong crosswind. But really, I can't afford to worry about such things.
heavyp
11-16-07, 09:46 PM
Look at it from the standpoint of the law of conservation of energy and you'll see I'm right ;) That's why a flywheel tends to remain in motion longer if it's heavier. More rotational momentum. Admittedly, the effect isn't large in this case, but it's there. ;) I suspect though that the number of spokes I'm running and aerodynamic resistance has offset any flywheel effect. ;)
If you are coasting to a stop, you are going to roll farther due to flywheel effect, but if you are holding steady speed, you are going to have to put in the same amount of energy regardless of rotational inertia.
Tom Stormcrowe
11-17-07, 01:13 AM
If you are coasting to a stop, you are going to roll farther due to flywheel effect, but if you are holding steady speed, you are going to have to put in the same amount of energy regardless of rotational inertia.
True, but I'll be able to soft pedal more often on flat ground as well. ;) Less energy burned over distance ;)
adrien
11-18-07, 08:40 AM
anyone interested in pics? I could grab the digicam and do the classic garage-door shot not the wheels are back on...
Mr. Beanz
11-18-07, 08:52 AM
Yes, but the deep section rims will give you an aerodynamic advantage! The big thing is that they suck in the climbing department and when there is a strong crosswind. But really, I can't afford to worry about such things.
It's the lack of training that makes these wheel suck on the climbs. I trained hard in 04, did a timed century with 10,,000ft of climbing. I placed #123 out of 400. That was compared to the SERIOUS climbers. I used my $1,000 bike special while others had bikes up to $8,000 that I know of, special built climbing wheels and all. Not bad for outweighing most riders by 70 lbs.
This year I did a similar ride and although I completed it, I sucked IMO! Carrying 25 extra pounds is what made the wheels suck on the climbs. Oh wait, wasn't the wheels, it was my fat butt!:D
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 11:21 AM
anyone interested in pics? I could grab the digicam and do the classic garage-door shot not the wheels are back on...
Yes I am
Tom Stormcrowe
11-18-07, 11:26 AM
Please do Adrien!
adrien
11-18-07, 11:37 AM
ok, trying to figure it out...how do i do it with files off my pc?
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 11:49 AM
you can upload directly from your pc in the advanced option of the post window or you can use photobucket and put in a link to the photobucket site.
Air
11-18-07, 12:08 PM
Use Flickr - we have a pool!
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=329316 - How to Post Pics
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=251523 - Clydes Flickr Pool
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 12:09 PM
Use Flickr - we have a pool!
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=329316 - How to Post Pics
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=251523 - Clydes Flickr Pool
With these wheels it'll hang with the roadies, and it's as tough as hell.
It's nice to see the rise of the seat relative to the bars. I sometimes worry that the bike is too small, and then i ride it 80 miles and feel great. I think it looks about right.
Tom Stormcrowe
11-18-07, 03:36 PM
Well, it looks great!
By the way, made any June plans yet ;) See my sig! (and what's under my avatar ;) )
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 04:32 PM
That is a sweet ride. I see you have a WTB saddle, what version are you riding? I will more than likely need to go with a different saddle on my new bike. I have a WTB Speed V on my Specialized right now, but it's really uncomfortable compared to the one of my hybrid.
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 04:33 PM
Tom, you have the black Tiagra hubs right?
Tom Stormcrowe
11-18-07, 04:36 PM
Tom, you have the black Tiagra hubs right?
Yeppers! I sure do!, Black spokes as well.
jaxgtr
11-18-07, 05:11 PM
Everything I see on the Tiagra is 8/9, do you know if a 10 speed cassette will fit on those. I'd like to get the black hubs, but I can't find them in 105 except over seas.
Tom Stormcrowe
11-18-07, 05:18 PM
Everything I see on the Tiagra is 8/9, do you know if a 10 speed cassette will fit on those. I'd like to get the black hubs, but I can't find them in 105 except over seas.
Yep, you can go from 8/9 to 10, but you can't go from 10 to 8/9, IIRC. Check first though, please ;)
adrien
11-18-07, 08:15 PM
WTB Rocket V street smart...came stock on the bike.
Ok, for the flywheel analogy, you're correct that they'll spin longer due to the momentum they generate. This is handy on flats and coming out of downhills. On the other hand, a "heavier flywheel" takes more energy to get up to speed and to increase speed.
So basically it's a tradeoff.
Oh yeah, how much weight difference are we talking about here? 300-500 grams maybe for the set? Why not just dump out 1/4 of a water bottle and then you'll be even. :D
The theroies are correct here, but the realities are pretty insignificant.
What I do enjoy is what I call the "fat guy roll out" after a long hill....my little bitty riding buddies will have to start pedaling a lot sooner while my momentum keeps me rolling along at higher speed without having to reapply power. Aaaaah physics.
adrien
11-19-07, 10:13 AM
...keep in mind that a heavier wheel is more of a workout. That's good if you're looking to build strength and burn calories.
I figure that one day i'll get light wheels and i'll be even faster. Though, to my original post, i may well break them.
jaxgtr
11-19-07, 10:23 AM
Did you ever think about going with the aerohead? Same strength just lighter weight?