Training & Nutrition - Training for weak back

Hi Fellas,
How would you train someone for a very long ride (i.e. multi states), or even just a day trip, who has a weak back resulting from a life long deskjob. By weak back I mean it hurts from sitting all the time, and isn't very strong. Can cyclying help strengthen the back or does it just worsen the problem?

Michael

Hi Fellas,
How would you train someone for a very long ride (i.e. multi states), or even just a day trip, who has a weak back resulting from a life long deskjob. By weak back I mean it hurts from sitting all the time, and isn't very strong. Can cyclying help strengthen the back or does it just worsen the problem?

Michael

Hi Michael,

I would start doing abdominal work (crunches, weighted ab machine), general free weights like dumbells, and start doing some short cycling rides. Give yourself rest days. Good posture at work is essential.

FXjohn

Hi,
he should join a gym, and find a really good trainer (not easy). A good trainer will help him avoid most of the mistakes people make. Seated rowing at an exercise station (best if you sit on a pad so the feet are not much lower than your butt). Start with the lightest weight offered. Concentrate on good form, bending at the hips and not the waist. Ab work is also important.

Well... as you are supposed to keep the abs relaxed while riding, that would mean the back would have to be slightly contracted to keep the weight back off the handlebars and over the pedals.

As far as helping the back... not sure. What helps the back is doing strengthening and flexibility exercises for the back, as well as strengthening exercises for the abdominals, which are the agonists of the back muscles.

What you should do is work a few of the muscle groups if considering longer trips:

Triceps- You'll want to do french presses, tricep pulldowns, and tricep kickbacks to strengthen the tricep muscles. Also, do tricep stretching to increase the flexiblity of the triceps in general.

Spinae Erector muscles- you'll want to train these muscles of the deep back. Try doing the Roman Chair to start with no weights. These are back extension exercises. As you grow stronger, you can grab the weight plates and start doing the extension exercises while holding the weights. If you have a T-Bar raise at your gym (assuming you go to the gym!), this is a great machine for targeting the deep muscles of the back. Also consider adding in the bent over barbell rows for the lower back and erector spinae muscles.

For the upper back, consider doing the lat pulldown machine. Always start with the small weights, then add more weight as you become stronger. For the posterier deltoids (back of the shoulders), you'll want to do rear raises- you can invest in a swiss ball for this (and substitue the swiss ball for the roman chair if you don't have access to a roman chair also!). Sitting on the ball, lean forwards with the hand weights in the hands, then lift the arms upwards and out. At all times, the palms should be facing the floor for this exercise. For the trapezius (neck), you'll want to do shoulder shrugs, where you hold one weight in each hand and just shrug the shoulders. You can also alternate this with upright rows, where you stand upright with a weight in each hand just in front of the thighs and palms facing the thighs, then with an overhand grip (palms facing the body/chest at all times!), lift the weights, keeping the weights close to the body, to about neck height.

For abdominal work, you can do just about anything for abs- crunches are best, but you can also do leg lifts, reverse curls, full ab crunches, oblique crunches... do a little of everything so that all areas of the abdominals are trained.

As Late said, you want to focus on keeping your form. If you can't keep the form while raising the weight, you have too much weight! Don't be proud- be humble and get the smaller weight. At the end of the day, your body will thank you for it.

Koffee

Whoops- do not do these exercises 2 days in a row. Always take at least one day off. You aren't working on becoming the next Mr. Olympia, so if you did this 3 times a week, you'll benefit from this.

Also work on adding stretching to your routine- serious streteching where you take 30- 45 minutes 4 days a week to stretch all the muscles of the body. If you could do 5-6 days a week, I'd feel real happy for you, though....

Koffee

Cycling does very little for the back and apart from flexibility makes little demand on the back. Assuming you are using a standard road bike you will have to tolerate a bent forward
posture for many hours with a good bit of upper body wght
on your arms. If using a more uprite posture bike then the
lean will be less. Some back muscle is used going up hills.
The exercises and activities recommended by prior posters are
designed to strengthen the back muscles and should help.
Steve

I don't agree with you as much that an upright posture bike will take stress off the back. Actually, when you are doing longer distances, you will need a road bike- it's too much stress to keep the back in an upright bike the longer you ride.

I thought the same thing too- I bought an upright bike, and I regret it now- I love my bike, but if I knew what I knew now, I definitely would have bought a road bike and got some nice aerobars on the bike and spent time alternating between drops and hoods to take stress off my hands, wrists, and back.

By all means, if you have a hybrid, comfort, or mountain bike, consider investing the money in a basic road bike. Save the stress on the back.

Koffee

The best thing you can do for your back is . . . DEADLIFT!



Also, for the muscle groups koffee brown suggested, I would chose close grip bench press for your triceps and pull ups for your upper back.

Hey this is a good thread.
Koffee, I have a swiss ball and just sitting on it really helps my back.
Who cares what the neighbors think, haha.
(I am on a computer ALL day).
What do you think of Pilates exercises? I do a few of them also with the ball.
As far as drop handlebars I find them to hurt my neck after awhile but maybe that's because i am not conditioned properly for it yet, or am not properly fitted.
Stretching for 45 minutes 5 times a week? wow, do you do that?
Can you run down what you do, or point me in the right direction?
FXjohn

Aloner.....
The deadlift is one of the classic weight lifting exercises. It is one of the best. But....you just advised an out of shape middle-aged guy with a sore back to do deadlifts. That could easily result in a visit to an emergency room.

Originally posted by late
Aloner.....
The deadlift is one of the classic weight lifting exercises. It is one of the best. But....you just advised an out of shape middle-aged guy with a sore back to do deadlifts. That could easily result in a visit to an emergency room.


yeah, you're right.


I should have advised also doing light weight first . . . get your technique down pat. NEVER ROUND YOUR BACK.


But, seriously . . . they are the best exercise for back strength. Thanks for pointing that out to me though, late.

Yeah, I was just getting ready to chime in.

I don't advocate or believe in deadlifts- for serious weightlifters and bodybuilders... yes. For the average individual looking to come in and build up some muscle, or just gain strength, or something along those lines- I'd push them towards other lifting exercises, like the one I mentioned earlier.

I notice a lot of guys do the deadlifts anyway- 75% of them do it incorrectly to some degree or another, and regardless of whether they even do it right, if they wanted to work the back muscles, they could do better exercises that would target the back muscles better, and they could certainly get on at least 3 other hamstring machines and work the hamstrings much more specifically.

Skip the deadlifts.... stick with other exercises for the back.

And no... they are NOT the best exercise for back strength. The best exercises for back strength are exercises that isolate the muscle- deadlifts do not do that.

Koffee

Originally posted by FXjohn
Hey this is a good thread.
Koffee, I have a swiss ball and just sitting on it really helps my back.
Who cares what the neighbors think, haha.
(I am on a computer ALL day).
What do you think of Pilates exercises? I do a few of them also with the ball.
As far as drop handlebars I find them to hurt my neck after awhile but maybe that's because i am not conditioned properly for it yet, or am not properly fitted.
Stretching for 45 minutes 5 times a week? wow, do you do that?
Can you run down what you do, or point me in the right direction?
FXjohn

I think Pilates is great because it works the core muscles and strengthens them in the process. They do not significantly build muscle, but they do increase the strength of the muscles for sure. If you can throw in a pilates class or two during the week, all the better. I actually have 2 pilates machines- haven't unpacked them yet because I'm in the process of working towards certification so I can do private lessons, but if you can get on a machine and do the pilates, you can actually improve significantly your muscle strength.

I think that as you continue to ride, your neck will adjust to riding-but if you can do some neck exercises in the meantime, that would really aid you in the long run. Also, you may want to sit up every so often and roll the head and stretch the sides of the neck to help stave off fatigue of the neck muscles if you can.

As far as stretching, I find it a bit difficult to explain different poses- I think explanations with pictures would help. If you can get to a local gym, see if you can take some of the stretching classes there, but if you can't, try this book: "Stretching", by Bob Anderson. I have that book, and when I first became certified, that was my stretching bible. It has explanations and pictures, and it even breaks down stretching by sport- you can look up your sport, and it will give you stretching exercises for the muscle groups used in that sport.

Yoga will also help with stretching- some of the poses really help to elongate the muscles and increase flexibility, but be sure if you go to yoga that you start slowly and work to the advanced exercises. You don't want to rip your muscles because you pushed to aggressively too soon!

As far as how to incorporate stretching into your day- that's up to you. Seriously, I don't practice what I preach, but I am trying.... I was up to 3 times a week of stretching and 3 days a week of yoga. Unfortunately, I just need to get back into a routine and stay consistent and find those extra 45 minutes in the day to do the exercises. That's what you've got to do also. If you belong to a gym, I think the easiest way to get started on this is to find the classes that fit into your schedule, then go do it. My plan is to get into the yoga more like I used to- I really did love yoga. Hopefully I can find a partner to do it with- partner yoga can be extremely effective, as you can work with each other to increase the stretching in the poses. Even then, be careful if you get a partner. You'll need to communicate when you're feeling pain, and when they can push you into increasing the stretch of the move.


Let me know if you need anymore suggestions.

Koffee

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
Yeah, I was just getting ready to chime in.

I don't advocate or believe in deadlifts- for serious weightlifters and bodybuilders... yes. For the average individual looking to come in and build up some muscle, or just gain strength, or something along those lines- I'd push them towards other lifting exercises, like the one I mentioned earlier.

I notice a lot of guys do the deadlifts anyway- 75% of them do it incorrectly to some degree or another, and regardless of whether they even do it right, if they wanted to work the back muscles, they could do better exercises that would target the back muscles better, and they could certainly get on at least 3 other hamstring machines and work the hamstrings much more specifically.

Skip the deadlifts.... stick with other exercises for the back.

And no... they are NOT the best exercise for back strength. The best exercises for back strength are exercises that isolate the muscle- deadlifts do not do that.

Koffee


Why would you say isolation is the best for strength in any muscle?



Powerlifters are some of the stongest people around . . . if a powerlifter wanted to up his strength off his chest, he wouldn't do flyes . . . he's stick to regular bench. Compound movements are the best for strength.


Your hamstrings won't become very strong by just doing just curls . . . go to that deadlift variant.


Have you heard of Pavel Tsatsouline?

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/152russ.html


Deadlifting will give you a strong back, as it works the back in two ways: Isometrically, as you must keep it arched . . . and, your back also assists in make your torso more upright, like going from bent over to a straight position.



Although, if you have access to a reverse hyperextension machine, i recommend it highly . . . for both the hamstrings and the lower back. Similarly, if you have access to a glute-ham raise machine, use that for your hamstrings.

We are NOT powerlifters. I already said that folks in those leagues benefit from using that exercise.

Normal folks... uh-uh. <sigh> I've seen lots of men, though, who follow the routine of Flex Wheeler and claim it's the best way to train, when for them, it is not. I love Flex, but dang... Muscles and Fitness is not the bible of weightlifting for the average individual.

Isolating specific muscle groups rather than working several muscle groups is advantageus for a good reason- by isolating muscle groups and working the agonists with isolation exercises, you build more symmetry among opposing muscle groups, which leads to less of a likelihood of injury from muscle imbalance. Also, by isolating specific muscle groups, you are better able to target the muscles so that you can build overall strength in the muscles to do those moves that you talk about- those powerlifting moves like deadlifts.

As far as the deadlift itself, the correct method is to keep the back straight... not arched. The correct method of the deadlift is to keep the feet shoulder width or narrower. In the start position, the knees are slightly bent, the bar is close to the shins, the back is straight and the shoulders are pulled back. You look up, which helps to keep your back in the appropriate position. In this position, you would contract your hamstrings and glutes and straighten from the hips to bring the weights up. There is definitely lower back involvement in this exercise (spinal erectae muscles), but the drive should come mainly from the contraction of your hams and glutes, so focus on contracting and squeezing the glutes and hamstrings as you lift the torso. At the mid-point of the lift, the back will slightly arch, but in the end position, the back is straight as you reach the standing position. Never lock the knees in this exercise, and as you bring the weights up, push through the heels.

The problem with the deadlift is as Late pointed out- people with back problems should NOT be performing this exercise. Likewise, people with little experience should also not be performing the exercise. There is too much potential and stress on the back that could lead to lower back injury.

There are other back exercises that you can do that can effectively strengthen the back muscles (which is why I say it is the best way to strengthen a muscle)- ultimately, before you do other exercises that involve multiple muscle groups, the best thing you can do is to work with weightlifting that isolate the muscle groups and build the muscle first before moving on to other advanced weightlifting exercise.

Koffee

Coyote, I would bet you have weak abdominals with spinal curves that are all exagerrated due to your deskjob. Add to this probably significantly reduced segmental vertebral control and motion. I would recommend mat based pilates exercises and yoga, as these exercises target these areas.