Road Cycling - another Specialized spoke broke (no joke!)

FYI to everyone with Specialized road bikes out there (which is why i picked the 'road' rather than 'maintenance' category)...

i've had my 2002 Specialized Allez 24 for about two months now. i'd heard previously, either in this forum or on www.roadbikereview.com, that there were problems with some of the wheels from Specialized. spokes eventually breaking from machine tensioning at the factory, etc. so when i went into my LBS for the 30 day tune up, i made a point of mentioning it. i doubt my LBS actually trued my wheel, probably just took a quick look.

Anyway, on monday a spoke broke. wasn't bunny-hopping curbs or doing anything silly, it just broke as i was applying the brakes. so i took it in, and they fixed it for free (had to ask for the manager before that happened).

so here it is saturday, and another spoke broke! on the rear wheel like before, different side. this time, they've got to replace all the spokes. and NOW i find out from them that the Ritchey wheels on this model had a lot of problems, and the spokes are brittle and break easily.

so if you're riding a Specialized with Ritchey rims, keep an eye out on the spokes. or rather, keep an ear out for that telltale "pong!"

p.s. i'm pretty happy with the bike, not slamming Specialized. but heck i haven't even had a flat yet, so two broken spokes in a week seems a bit much!

They probably would have been fine if they hadnt readjusted them. If the wheel is true, and the spokes are tight,,,,,,,, then I leave it alone. :D

I sincerely hope that this problem can be solved by truing and adjustment. Buuuuuuut, for me this is deja vu all over again.

Problem: My bike came with Mavic CXP-21s. I was breaking a spoke every 400 miles or so. Spokes were always getting loose and the wheel out of true. I got a truing stand and had to true my wheels every two weeks. Eventually I discovered that one wheel was out of radial true permanently because the rim itself had become permanently lopsided in one small spot. I bought a new CXP 21 and the spokes still loosened, the shop did a lot of work on it, and shortly thereafter a spoke broke. I took it back to the shop, they refunded my money, and decided to send the wheel back to Mavic.

So what was the problem? First: Machine built wheels do not have a compound wheelbuilders use to keep spokes firmly in place. Second: Less expensive wheels are not welded at the seam where the ends of the extruded wheel are joined. They are joined by bolts inside the rim. There is greater flexibility (i.e. weak spot) at that point at the rim. That weakness hastens the loosening of the spokes. When the tension goes out of whack, spokes break.

Diagnosis: Look at the spot on your rim exactly opposite from the tube valve hole. You will probably be able to feel the seam with your finger on the inner part of the rim. If you can see the seam on the outer edges (where the brake pads grip) of the rims, then the seams are not welded. Check the tension of the spokes in that area. If they are looser than the other spokes on the rim, then you probably have a chronic problem. Loose spokes lead to broken spokes. Check everyday for a couple of weeks. Another telltale sign is how the spokes break. Mine always broke at the hub.

Solution: Here's the bad part. My solution to the problem was to buy a better wheelset built by Colorado Cyclist. I have more than 7,000 miles on them and they have never needed to be trued. When you get to better wheelset like Mavic CXP33s or Open Pros, the rims will be welded and the wheels handbuilt.

I know it's annoying, but take the bike back to the shop every time you break a spoke. Keep them aware of the problem. Eventually, Specialized should replace the wheel in question. Not all wheels on this price level are duds, but, from what I've read here and on RoadBikeReview.com, there are a lot of them.

I sincerely hope that what I have written here does not apply to your wheels. If it does, at least you know what's going on.

Rich

The Solution: Take this bike to your dealer (Or if they give you a hard time another Specialized dealer) and have them do the warranty repair. Ritchey will provide the spokes (From Ritchey not Specialized) and Specialized will give the shop a small(really small, this is why some shops do not like to do it) amount of money to rebuild the wheel.
I have had to do this for several customers and am waiting for a set of spokes from Ritchey to do another.

I have a Specialized Allez Sport 27 that developed problems with the rear wheel after about 800 miles or so. When the first spoke went, I took it to the LBS to have the spoke replaced and the wheel trued, thinking that it was an aberration. Afer a few more rides another spoke popped, this time on the other side of the hub. In both cases the spokes let go under fairly normal riding conditions -- in other words, Just Riding Along (tm) and not hopping curbs or cranking hard up a hill or something like that. After the second spoke let go I took it back to the LBS and had them replace all the spokes on the rear wheel with 14/15 double-butted DT spokes and had them give the wheel a proper assembly. I'm of the opinion that the components used (Ritchey hub and Alex Rims in my case) are fine but they are poorly assembled as delivered from the factory.

The spokes on the Ritchey wheels that came on my Fuji were undertensioned and not stress-relieved. I expected this, of course, and so I stress-relieved them and ran the tension back up and trued them before I ever rode the bike.

(This was a "new in box" bike purchased via ebay, so there was no LBS to do this for me.)

The wheels have given me no trouble, but I have since heard from a number of other Ritchey wheel owners who have had problems. It's not just Ritchey, of course; undertensioning and failure to stress-relieve is chronic with machine-built wheels, and IMO is the source of most of the premature failures we see so frequently reported.

RichC

thanks everyone for the advice and input. first off, let me say that i took the bike to the LBS today, and they're going to take care of it (so they say). as i have a ride scheduled for monday morning, they put a loaner wheel on it. meanwhile they're going to contact Specialized on tuesday and claim a credit on the wheels (the entire wheel set? not sure, but that's how it sounded), with which i will select some new wheels. the LBS has already mentioned "perhaps you should consider upgrading a little"...let's find out what this credit is first!

Rich/Stinger: i took a look...i see the seam you're talking about on the Ritchey front wheel. i didn't notice any extra loose spokes in that area. however the loaner wheel is a Mavic CXP23...i don't see the seam on those. welded? if i get a new wheel set, i'll be taking your solution but hopefully for no (or little) out of pocket expense.

Rev Chuck: initially they were talking about replacing the spokes, but it graduated to "new wheel set". i wonder if the LBS is going to find out the warranty repair credit for new spokes and labor, and say that's my credit for the "new wheel set"...some really small amount, making me think i have to splash out for new wheels?

Grendel: your experience sounds very much like mine! same brands too, Alex rims and Ritchey hubs. DA22 rims i think. LBS claims the spokes are actually substandard.

Rich Clark: i did stress relieve the spokes, at least i think i did it right based on what i've read. but i didn't dare tackle tensioning as i have no truing stand and not enough understanding of the process.

thanks again everyone! i won't know until mid week what's going to happen.

I have a 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper and am the original owner. It came all stock. The only thing I needed to fix was some truing and a new set of treads (especially after about 6 years ;) )

-Dan the Man-

Hm, I think it's interesting that Ritchey stuff is having trouble. Mainly because the seatpost on my '96 S-Works MTB has always been enough of a pain to be a pain.

Hope your shop keeps on Specialized. I'd guess that you'll get everything taken care of. Either that or you'll find a new shop.

Unless your shop has some big pull all they will get is a set of spokes and build credit. Once the wheels are built with the new spokes you should not have any problems.

Originally posted by Rev.Chuck
Unless your shop has some big pull all they will get is a set of spokes and build credit. Once the wheels are built with the new spokes you should not have any problems.

that's what i figured, spokes and build. credit towards an entire wheelset seems a bit more than one can expect, so perhaps the LBS guy misspoke (no pun intended). unless the rims are also part of them problem and they've been replacing the whole thing. i didn't get a call from the LBS today, so i'll call tomorrow morning and see what's up.

I don't think the problem is the Ritchey hub or the rim, or maybe not even the spokes; what I think we have here is an example of how even good components can result in a poor quality wheel if they're put together by a machine, and badly at that. If the LBS that sold me the bike to begin with had properly stress-relieved and tensioned the spokes I might never have had a problem, but as time and miles added up I started having problems due presumably to poorly tensioned spokes. I guess I'll have to put 1000 miles or so on the rebuilt wheel to know for sure since it took about 800 miles to start seeing problems with the original build.

mmm, good point Grendel. although to muddy the waters a bit, the second spoke broke after the wheel had been properly tensioned and trued. so was this second spoke stressed beyond failure point from the crappy factory tuning and then just waiting to go as well? or was it a bad spoke and no amount of proper tensioning could save it? (or, option 3, my LBS' repair shop is no better than a machine at tuning a wheel, but i seriously doubt that)

LBS said Ritchey got a bad run of spokes. misinformed? trying to protect the dirty little secret of the cycling industry (factory-tensioned spokes)? correct? i probably won't find out.

either way, i think Specialized owes me wheels with properly-tensioned and non-defective spokes. stay tuned...

p.s. why is it that comfort-ride bikes never seem to have broken spokes? they're factory-tensioned as well.

Well I am here to report that I bought a used 2002 Allez Elite and had a rear spoke go POING on me a week into riding it. I was suprised that my LBS so cheerfully completely respoked the whole wheel for free (since it was used). Perhaps this explains it... but the thing is I got standard round (but still black) spokes in place of the bladed ones. To tell the truth I don't really mind since the rear wheel holds all my beerweight the extra stregnth in it is likely a good idea. :)

cAPS

well it took a few weeks, but i've finally got an answer from my LBS about the breaking spoke problem. Specialized will either replace the wheels with the same thing, or they'll give me $100 credit to get new wheels at the store. which puts me in the uncomfortable position of either getting the same thing all over again, or spending more money for better wheels. so i'm going to shell out another $100 to get some Open Pros with double-butted spokes and Ultegra hubs, pre-built. seems pretty reasonable...actually, looks like they're ordering from the Performance catalog! but this means i'm putting another 1/5 of the original value into my bike, all because of a defect. kind of annoying, but hey at least i'll have decent wheels.

so that's the end of the story, for all who were following along. i go get the wheels saturday.

We have warrantied a couple Specialized and 3-4 Trek's for popping spokes for no reason. Once we warrantied a wheelset because the rims were out of a bad batch. This could be what the guy was talking about. I highly doubt it though, because if so they wouldn't let you leave the shop if they thought that.

Any good shop will proll do a warranty, If it isn't where you bought it make sure you have a reciept.

Interesting, we always just got spokes. And they were quite different from the originals. The new ones were softer, more flexible. A non bike person could have separated them.

Don't know how heavy you are or how strong you are...but we had this issue with a bigger guy and replaced the spokes with a heavier guage on CXP21's and it solved the problem. A strong rider who is around 200 lbs can snap a 12 guage spoke easily.