Electric Bikes - First BionX ride

Hi, I just got my KHS Mocha/BionX PL350 combo installed and was finally able to take it out for a full ride yesterday. I took some video but it was so jerky that I decided to use stills. :) A couple notes on the install... The battery on the back rack is just a temporary install and I hope to mount it on the frame to help distribute the weight better (I found myself doing wheelies if I wasn't careful). Also, the console is installed at an angle because of the way the handlebars are designed.

http://stang99.w1.com/biking/img/khs01.jpg

My main goal was to run it on throttle with minimal pedaling (only to start up from stops) straight up a gradual ascent over 3.6 miles. The last mile or so is an 8% grade. This is basically part of my commute between the train station and my home. I averaged about 18 or 19 mph until I hit the steep grade where it gradually dipped down to about 9 or 10 mph.

http://stang99.w1.com/biking/img/khs02.jpg

About a quarter mile from the top the motor started making noises and I could feel it laboring. I decided to assist with some pedaling but I could tell it was losing juice. Interestingly, when I turned onto the side streets where it was flat the motor was able to perform normally. It was good to have some power left to get me home.

I know this isn't how it was intended to be used but I just wanted to max it out on the hill. Does this sound like reasonable performance? Regardless, I certainly had a lot of fun trying it!

That sounds about right for BionX if you were just running the throttle. These systems are designed to be used with pedal-assist, and in contrast to a lot of others out there aren't high powered. Personally, I wouldn't suggest using the throttle, BionX works best when it runs the pedal-assist. Very nice systems though, and the PL350 has a lot of range capacity. What was your remaining charge indicated at the end of the run?

Congrats on the system!

That looks really nice man. That's pretty much exactly what I need- a small folder so I can ride to the train station, and take it with me.

I need one that can make it up the hills though. I have about a 2 mile run down a hill to the train station, so I need to make it back up after work. And I don't want to have to pedal. I don't mind pedaling, but I don't want it to be required. I guess that Bionx isn't the right setup for me. The bike looks nice though.

How much does that setup weigh? Can you easily fold it up and carry it on the train?

How much does that setup weigh? Can you easily fold it up and carry it on the train? The BionX battery and motor weigh 16 lbs. and I'm guessing the KHS is somewhere around 25 - 30 lbs. (based on it's aluminum alloy frame and it's price point compared to similar folders). So 41 to 46 lbs.?

I don't think I can recommend this as a commuting folder. It's fold-ability is just not well thought out. The wires aren't properly held down/in the right places, the pedals need to be in a certain position, and there's no locking mechanism to keep the bike folded. Having said that, I'm going to try and improve this with a couple zip ties and velcro straps. Maybe even have the bike shop weld on a magnet system like the Dahons.

BTW, I found out today that an electric motor manufacturer used this exact route to test out their motor vs. some competitors. Can't remember which company he said but I'll find out.

That sounds about right for BionX if you were just running the throttle. These systems are designed to be used with pedal-assist, and in contrast to a lot of others out there aren't high powered. Personally, I wouldn't suggest using the throttle, BionX works best when it runs the pedal-assist. Very nice systems though, and the PL350 has a lot of range capacity. What was your remaining charge indicated at the end of the run?

Congrats on the system! Thanks--it's very fun! I don't remember how much charge was left... I'll check next time.

I'm considering the same BionX kit on a Dahon folding bike that weighs about 21 lbs. I hope your total commute was longer than 3.6 mi. That was just the hill section right? Please tell me it lasted longer than that. :)

Jeff

I'm considering the same BionX kit on a Dahon folding bike that weighs about 21 lbs. I hope your total commute was longer than 3.6 mi. That was just the hill section right? Please tell me it lasted longer than that. :)

Jeff Oh yeah, 3 miles from my house to the train (I've been doing this part by car), 18 miles on the train, then another 7.2 miles to the office.

Yesterday was my first commute with the BionX setup (read http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=364281). I'm not sure how I feel about carting around the heavier setup yet. With just the Dahon, I'm able to carry it around easily, fold/unfold quickly, and I don't have to take the elevators. The BionX setup is a bit cumbersome. Plus, The KHS Mocha's 6-speed setup is just too slow. Wonder if I can swap that out easily...

Some good points: I was able to use the throttle for most of the 7.2 miles and still had over half the battery left. Also, without my tumble I think I could've shaved around 10 minutes off that part of the commute.

Don't forget to check out my Bionx Transformer thread. I convert my mountain bike to-from Bionx in about 2-3 minutes all the time. That's one thing I love about the Bionx: if you don't want to ride electric today, simply remove the battery and rear wheel and you're done.

I also have a thread around here where I reveal my personal PL350 settings and console "hacks". You might want to take a look at that.

I also have every single Bionx document that was "accidently" posted on their website for a while. I guess I could post some of those documents someday.

The Bionx truely is an assist system first. You're really supposed to pedal your bike and use the assist to help you out. That's what I do for the most part. I just use the throttle when I want to take a small break. Most non ebikers stop on the side of the road to take a break, I simply stop pedaling and use the throttle instead.

I also use the throttle at low speeds as well. Since I have my console "hack" I can use the throttle from a full stop. So sometimes when I'm just going really slow and about to fall off the bike I'll give a little jab on the throttle to get up to a few km/h just so I don't have to put my foot down on the ground.

I really love the lightweight Bionx system (when compared to other eBikes) because I get more speed and still retain a very nimble bike. You should see me ride sometimes... I can get pretty crazy at times. A nimble eBike is much better for my high speed, zig-zagging, rear-tire-locking-during-a-turn style of riding.

You may find that you'll want to change the gearing on your bike soon. I've found that I need a smaller top gear or taller crank because I'm finding myself pedaling way too fast in top gear when I'm going over 40 km/h, which is easy to do with a Bionx. My idea is to do the change on the rear wheel only and leave the front crank as-is. Why? Because of the "transformer" nature of my bike. When in pure pedal mode I find my mountain bike to be properly geared. But when I switch to Bionx mode I find the 27th speed to be too slow. Since my "transformer" involves changing the rear wheel, I figure that's where I should make the changes.

Anyway, congrats on the Bionx and do look at my personal setup and "hack" guide for the PL350. You may not want to do exactly the same things I did but it could help you as a guide in personalizing your own Bionx. HINT: Before you change a given value, write it down first so you can go back to that setting if you messed up.

Don't forget to check out my Bionx Transformer thread. I convert my mountain bike to-from Bionx in about 2-3 minutes all the time. That's one thing I love about the Bionx: if you don't want to ride electric today, simply remove the battery and rear wheel and you're done.

I also have a thread around here where I reveal my personal PL350 settings and console "hacks". You might want to take a look at that.

I also have every single Bionx document that was "accidently" posted on their website for a while. I guess I could post some of those documents someday.

The Bionx truely is an assist system first. You're really supposed to pedal your bike and use the assist to help you out. That's what I do for the most part. I just use the throttle when I want to take a small break. Most non ebikers stop on the side of the road to take a break, I simply stop pedaling and use the throttle instead.

I also use the throttle at low speeds as well. Since I have my console "hack" I can use the throttle from a full stop. So sometimes when I'm just going really slow and about to fall off the bike I'll give a little jab on the throttle to get up to a few km/h just so I don't have to put my foot down on the ground.

I really love the lightweight Bionx system (when compared to other eBikes) because I get more speed and still retain a very nimble bike. You should see me ride sometimes... I can get pretty crazy at times. A nimble eBike is much better for my high speed, zig-zagging, rear-tire-locking-during-a-turn style of riding.

You may find that you'll want to change the gearing on your bike soon. I've found that I need a smaller top gear or taller crank because I'm finding myself pedaling way too fast in top gear when I'm going over 40 km/h, which is easy to do with a Bionx. My idea is to do the change on the rear wheel only and leave the front crank as-is. Why? Because of the "transformer" nature of my bike. When in pure pedal mode I find my mountain bike to be properly geared. But when I switch to Bionx mode I find the 27th speed to be too slow. Since my "transformer" involves changing the rear wheel, I figure that's where I should make the changes.

Anyway, congrats on the Bionx and do look at my personal setup and "hack" guide for the PL350. You may not want to do exactly the same things I did but it could help you as a guide in personalizing your own Bionx. HINT: Before you change a given value, write it down first so you can go back to that setting if you messed up.

Very cool, I've seen a couple of your posts and they've been very helpful (ooh, except for the vandalism one :( that's not cool). I'm looking forward to checking out the hacks (I've seen the limiter one on another site, too). BTW, since you're a Transformers fan... one of the shots above shows a location used in the movie. Can you guess which scene?? :)

That's a fair sort of hill and a good test for any street going e.bike. I'm curious, - do you think an electric hub on the rear wheel is better than a front mounted electric hub. Front hub wheels are readily available here in New Zealand, but no-one is importing rear hubs as far as I know.

Sianelle, that depends. Each one has some strengths, some weaknesses, and some incompatabilities.

For instance, rear hubs require the use of freewheels as opposed to cassette. That means 7 rear gears, possibly 8 at most. This often means purchasing a new shifter and so on, which adds to the price a bit. Personally, I have no desire for 9 speed cassette wheels as they're more fragile than 8 speeds and lower, so this is no loss in my opinion. *However* rear hubs allow you to use disk brakes, whereas front hubs are too large to accomodate a disk brake and are therefore incompatible.

Typically, hub motors are also 32 spokes. Thats standard for a north american mountain bike, and are fairly tough, but not tough enough for doing something like building an Xtracycle or a hauling bike where you usually need tougher wheels. Its possible to get by with 32, but having a front motor makes that situation *much* easier, as the front typically remains less loaded than the rear, and it allows you to get something like a high strength 36 spoke touring wheel and so on.

Rear hubs work well with suspension, front is possible, but requiring more workarounds and is a bit dodgy with a junky front fork, especially if you're running the motor over its usual specs. I wouldn't generally suggest a front drive system if you're going to be building an e-motorbike or something along the lines. A good fork will take a lot of abuse, but those 72v systems people build that go 50+ will probably come out to be too much.

Front wheels are easier to regain control of if you overthrottle, rear wheels allow you to climb rutted/gravel hills better. Sometimes the front will slip if not enough weight is on it. Not a show stopper, but it slows you down. Apparently, having an Xtracycle fixes this, one of the reasons i'm so looking forward to next year!

The front *usually* allows for better weight distribution, as its easier to mount things on the back of your bike: good rear racks are easier to come by than front ones. Thats more of an aquisition problem than anything though.

As for the performance of the motors, they're nearly identical. Its more so the little bits like those mentioned above that affect things.