Classic & Vintage - new brake calipers won't fit

I ordered some NOS Suntour brake calipers and they arrived today and they are beautiful BUT the center mountin bolts are too short. I suspect I should be able to get some longer ones for them or am I stuck? Guess I'll have to disassemble them and see what I can do with them. Dang they are sweet looking though

how much to short? I assume you are dealing with recessed brakes here. Is the bike meant to take recessed brakes? Higher end road shops usually stock a range of recessed allen nut lengths if that is the issue. The other option is of course mounting the front on the rear in traditional nutted format and getting an extra long all nut to mount the back on the front, often this requires enlarging the hole at the back of the fork crown to accommodate the larger diameter of the allen nut.

I don't think they used the recessed brakes in 1977 so I'm going to tool and die them a liitle I'll counter bore the holes to accept the allen nuts. The holes are nearly 1/4 inch diameter and I can use a 5/16 counterbore with a 1/4 pilot so they will engage the studs. Its not as big a deal as I thought it was going to be although I might have to use an offset drill motor to get the clearance I need behing the seat tube

how much to short? I assume you are dealing with recessed brakes here. Is the bike meant to take recessed brakes? Higher end road shops usually stock a range of recessed allen nut lengths if that is the issue. The other option is of course mounting the front on the rear in traditional nutted format and getting an extra long all nut to mount the back on the front, often this requires enlarging the hole at the back of the fork crown to accommodate the larger diameter of the allen nut.

cyclotoine (and anyone else with answers), you seem fairly knowledgable regarding this. I am also considering putting recessed mounted calipers (all I can find in 65-70mm reach needed to allow upgrading to 700c wheels) on my old bike and have thought of doing the front and rear swap as you suggest to accomodate the recessed mounting. My question to you is aren't most brakes made with the front stronger than the rear to more effectively deliver stopping power? Can you swap these without any odd impact on stopping dynamics? Lastly, my existing calipers are single-pivot. All brakes made today are dual-pivot. Will I have any probelms mounting dual-pivots on a bike made for single-pivots(recessed mounting aside)?

Here is what I did (http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Oldyellr/jeunet/Dscf0021.jpg.html) to mount a rear brake on the front because the bolt was not long enough. If you don't have access to a lathe, you can but recessed nuts from Loose Screws (http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Brake&sc=Recessed%20Nuts&id=549617811396).

I'm going to fill the small tube in the back with epoxy and let it harden then use a counterbore to open up the forward side to accept the nut, the epoxy will help eliminate the tendency for the tubing to want to collapse during drilling and help lessen the chatter involved in the drilling on the tube. I'm going to practice on a different piece of small tubing first and see how it works

I have heard it is possible to get double pivot calipers with nutted mounting bolts from Yellow Jersey, but you have to call them as it is sort of a specialty thing and they have to modify their long reach calipers.

Thirstyman, unless you are using a modern set of calipers have have a single pivot in the back and dual pivot up front (like they did with record a year or so ago. is it still lik that? I dunno) there will be no difference. All old calipers we the same and up until the new single/dual pivot set-ups on the race bikes they were the same as far as I know.

Here is what I did (http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Oldyellr/jeunet/Dscf0021.jpg.html) to mount a rear brake on the front because the bolt was not long enough. If you don't have access to a lathe, you can but recessed nuts from Loose Screws (http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?c=Brake&sc=Recessed%20Nuts&id=549617811396).

nice jeunet, I have a 1975 with a 531 main frame, a 10 speed originally but I did it fixed with front and rear brakes, it's a solid rider. I think the fork may be ever so slightly tweaked though, but it does it's job well and I can fit fenders on it! Oh an nice one about the "bloody french" stem.. hahaha

I may have the longer mounting bolts need. I have run into that problem several times. I also may have a shim that goes in the rear hole. I have had several bikes with that thingy back there to help keep the tube from colapsing if over tightened. Maybe I should round up a box of bits for you and ride to Sumner for a cup o joe at Starbucks? Gimme a call!

Kelly D.

Kelly: that tube in the back is solid so its not gonna be a problem to drill out and the fork I will only need to drill out the front side so I think its gonna be ok. I'll give you a yell if I run into any problems but I think I'll be gold. Funny thing is that the new brakes seem to mount bass ackwards in they pull on the left side in the rear and in the front they pull from the right as you are astride the bike. My old bikes are just the opposite. Things that make you go MMMMMMMMM

I have heard it is possible to get double pivot calipers with nutted mounting bolts from Yellow Jersey, but you have to call them as it is sort of a specialty thing and they have to modify their long reach calipers.

Thirstyman, unless you are using a modern set of calipers have have a single pivot in the back and dual pivot up front (like they did with record a year or so ago. is it still lik that? I dunno) there will be no difference. All old calipers we the same and up until the new single/dual pivot set-ups on the race bikes they were the same as far as I know.

Is that the yellow jersey cycling shop in Alaska?

this yellow jersey (lots of good stuff but an atrociously disorganized site):
http://www.yellowjersey.org/mbs.html
they say you can order 2 fronts for your classic bike so you still have to drill the fork... guess I was wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong - do the new Tektro long-reach dual-pivots come in nutted length or recessed?

If only modern shops and modern roadies weren't as lazy and helpless with tools - brakes could be manufactured all in nutted length, and simply cut down to size according to the product. More business for Park to come up with another specialty tool for the job...

-Kurt

It just makes solving the problem that much more interesting. Just about anything can be adapted with enough thought and the access to a machine shop and a good hardware store. I have looked at this problem for 2 or 3 days off and on and everytime I rought fit and measure and fiddle around with it the clearer the solution becomes. I think I've got a handle on it but keep those ideas coming. Oh yeah these are Suntour Sprint calipers I am using. Very cool looking I think they have a light smokey color to them and are pretty light. I don't know where they fit in the Suntour line up, lower end or in the middle somewhere but I think they are going to be a pretty good fit on this bike.

so they are vintage calipers... well if you are willing you might be able to find a center bolt to swap, even if it is from a different brand of caliper... i know you can buy NOS campy ones, which have patent stamped in them.

I really like the look of these calipers so I'll just make them work and unless a bike wrench or real bike geek ( no offense) looks at it no one will ever know. I'm not sure how this volare stacks up against bikes of the same era (1977) but from what I have read its supposed to be a good frame. I'm trying to find similiar looking components for it that way it won't look as much like the *******ized thing it really is going to be but I want to make sure everything I put on it looks like they belong together. Speaking of which what about some nice brake levers? Did Suntour make a sprint model brake lever to go with the calipers? Or some other brand that would look good with them. I'm going to be using Nitto Randonneur bars and I think the Elk hide bar wrap from Velo Orange

You can make recessed brakes work on an older frame by drilling the fork crown and rear brake bridge to accept the recessed nuts. Works a little cleaner on the fork than the brake bridge, but hey. I noticed a bunch of brake center bolts on ebay recently, might find something to work.

Sprint line is right below Superbe Pro. Created to be the affordable race group, like Ultegra for Shimano.
The quality of the Sprint stuff was very high. Sprint aero brake levers exist.
I have a pair of Sprint pedals, they were the poor man's version of the Superbe Pro modern pedal...a pedal which made all other pedals look like antiques.

Another solution for the rear caliper....
try to locate a standard bolt rear caliper as a parts donor, and rebuild the Sprint rear caliper with the standard bolt. I have a set of Superbe calipers that are standard. I bet the parts would swap.

WNG if you are willing to part with them PM me with the details, condition, price pictures if you have any

Stringbreaker,
Ooops, I should have worded that better, wasn't selling my set. I meant to try getting your hands on one and do the swap.
This way may be cleaner than butchering the frame.

These are Suntour Sprint calipers? A +1 to WNG's Superbe cannibalization advice.

-Kurt

"... Funny thing is that the new brakes seem to mount bass ackwards in they pull on the left side in the rear and in the front they pull from the right as you are astride the bike. My old bikes are just the opposite. ..."

There was really no fixed "standard" for right or left cable orientation on brake calipers. And it even changed between models from the same manufacturer being sold at the same time. For example a late 1970s Weinmann #605 had cables on the right and their #500 had cables on the left. It later seemed to normalize for the most part along Campy standards, by the 1980s, but not for any logical reason.

Here is an amusing anecdote concerning this:

In the 1979 movie "Breaking Away," the hero Dave Stoller pulls along side the Italian team racers to chat. The bike he is seated on when they cut to him in this close shot was actually a Sears bike mounted to a trailer and painted to match the original Masi which he is riding in the previous frames. If you look closely, you will notice that the cables which lead to what are in fact Weinmann side-pulls on the dummy bike are on the opposite side of the stem as the cables of the Campy brakes of the real Masi. The film makers figured nobody would even notice this insignificant continuity goof in the shot and didn't bother re-shooting the scene after someone had later noticed this truly minor inconsistency. :o

... They didn't count on obsessive bicyclists later actually analyzing the bikes used in the film in minute detail :roflmao:

Would something like Sheldon Brown's fender mount nuts help - see http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/fenders_and_flaps#product=27-008

I'm putting Paul Racers on an old R. International and will have to drill the backs for the recessed bolting to fit - I'm considering these Sheldon Brown mounts - if you do use them let me know what you think.

I ordered some NOS Suntour brake calipers and they arrived today and they are beautiful BUT the center mountin bolts are too short. I suspect I should be able to get some longer ones for them or am I stuck? Guess I'll have to disassemble them and see what I can do with them. Dang they are sweet looking though
See: http://sheldonbrown.com/recessed

Sheldon "Ve Haff Ways..." Brown

Sheldon: This is the track I was on with these brakes but I hadn't figured out all the gory details as of yet. Must be that turkey induced haze I was in all day yesterday. I like the fork idea and that will work if I need to do it. I have located (from a fellow forum member) an almost full group of early dura ace goodies including crankset and brake calipers and even the brake levers and both the FD and RD so I'll see when I get the stuff how its going to mount up. As usual the C+V forum comes through.

Tried the Sheldon Brown method on the brake calipers and as the MAN himself so describes it worked like a charm. I think I'm going to make a little change if I end up using these caliper in that I'll make a radius washer to fit inside the fork tube and use a lock washer behing that to make sure nothing lets go at the most in opertune moment.

I have located (from a fellow forum member) an almost full group of early dura ace goodies ...Unfortunately old Dura-Ace stuff is often not as much of a bargain as it seems, because there are often major interchangeability headaches.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace for the details

Sheldon "Ultegra Is Often Better" Brown

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| To summarize: It is a well-known fact that those people who must |
| want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. |
| To summarize the summary: Anyone who is capable of getting |
| themselves made President should on no account be |
| allowed to do the job. |
| To summarize the summary of the summary: |
| People are a problem. -- Douglas Adams |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Thanks for the heads up Sheldon. I will perform my due diligence to make sure this stuff is ok and if it doesn't do the job the fellow told me to return all or part and he would refund my purchase price. I figure thats a pretty good deal.