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It seems to me like the utility cycing crowd don't appear to be too interested in image but are definitely more interested in function - function over form.... but sometimes I get the impression that we seem al little too disinterested in image, in fact I will come right out and say that some seem to cultivate the utility cyclist image and go out of their way to do so, to the point of casting scorn and derision on the non-utilitarians that 'don't get it'. That puts us on par with the lycra clad obsessive compulsive poseur roadies, except we're obsessive compulsive utilitarians, and even worse because of the 'holier than thou' attitude we try to project.
....feel free to discuss. Refute my observation if you like.
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Utility is utility - it is not fashion. Having said that, there are snobs, poseurs, inverse snobs etc. in any group or category of people, so I guess utility cyclists are the same.
As for your observations - were they from bikeforums? Any illustrative threads you could point out?
...some seem to cultivate the utility cyclist image and go out of their way to do so, to the point of casting scorn and derision on the non-utilitarians that 'don't get it'. ...and even worse because of the 'holier than thou' attitude we try to project.
I don't agree with these assertions and not sure what you're basing it off of.
I think your first statement of utility cyclists being in it for the function is correct. I think we do what we think works and leave it at that. Never gotten the picture that any utility cyclist had a "holier than thou" attitude. Depends on if you consider a utlity cyclist also an anti-car individual...
sometimes I get the impression that we seem al little too disinterested in image, in fact I will come right out and say that some seem to cultivate the utility cyclist image and go out of their way to do so, to the point of casting scorn and derision on the non-utilitarians that 'don't get it'. That puts us on par with the lycra clad obsessive compulsive poseur roadies.
When that urge comes over me, I reach into my chest of clothes and pull out a pair of lycra shorts. If I dare go out, I might wear them under my poseur utility duds. Does that count?
I don't agree with these assertions and not sure what you're basing it off of.
I think your first statement of utility cyclists being in it for the function is correct. I think we do what we think works and leave it at that. Never gotten the picture that any utility cyclist had a "holier than thou" attitude. Depends on if you consider a utlity cyclist also an anti-car individual...
As for your observations - were they from bikeforums? Any illustrative threads you could point out?
Not from bf.net fortunately, just from around the neighborhood. Just some (a very few) cyclists I see around the place, we greet each other in passing, but I've noticed that the more tereotypically 'utility' I look the friendlier the greeting I get, and when I'm on my flashy road bike I get completely snobbed off by them. In fact I don't think they recognise me when I'm on the road bike, which kind of got me wondering - do they see another human being? a neighbor? a local? as I do, or are they caught up in an 'us and them' thing? I'm only basing my original post on the vibe I get, of course I could be completely off target.
I'm just curious to hear the experience of others here, I thought it may be an interesting discussion topic.
Not from bf.net fortunately, just from around the neighborhood. Just some (a very few) cyclists I see around the place, we greet each other in passing, but I've noticed that the more tereotypically 'utility' I look the friendlier the greeting I get, and when I'm on my flashy road bike I get completely snobbed off by them. In fact I don't think they recognise me when I'm on the road bike, which kind of got me wondering - do they see another human being? a neighbor? a local? as I do, or are they caught up in an 'us and them' thing? I'm only basing my original post on the vibe I get, of course I could be completely off target.
I'm just curious to hear the experience of others here, I thought it may be an interesting discussion topic.
My personal experience is that where I live, the roadies have done it to themselves when it comes to how they're treated by other cyclists. Perhaps not all of them, but so many roadies i've seen project that snobbishness about that its not surprising it gets reflected right back at them.
To me it's like seeing maybe a '57 international with 60's ford lights added to the front, retrofitted with a ferguson hitch, oversized front wheels that come from god knows where, etc. Even if you know nothing about tractors, you can tell that on many levels it's very different from a meticulously kept bone stock '05 Kubota. Ferrari are in another time zone and the very vast majority of "ferrari" around here are **** cars with a body kit, but they're essentially indistinguishable by looks so...
I see a lot of people riding very clean 700c bikes with racks and fenders and all, but it lacks the essence. I rarely ever see their racks used, most don't even have bungee cords or anything either. On the other end, when I see someone riding around who has a bike with all sorts of little details thought out on it, I can tell they've been in it for a long time. But It goes much deeper then the bike: It's like brushing the aura of a cycling god, how could I help but smile?
Brought to you by the things that make you go "Hmm" department.
This would have been an interesting topic to post over in Living Car Free.
I think this issue comes back to something more basic. It's the old "us and them" mentality that seems to be such a feature of human nature. As someone said earlier, there are snobs in any group of people. I often laugh at the suburbanite snobs who get all excited about which suburb a person lives in. It's all the same thing really -- here on the Gold Coast it seems to be all about which side of Burleigh Heads you live on. Heck, even the touring forum had a discussion about whether or not supported touring was "real" touring recently. A lot of the roadies probably stereotype utility cyclists as being "poor", which just feeds the resentment on the other side.
In the end, I think it's just to keep people entertained as much as anything else. A quote I hear often suggests that it would be a rather dull world if we were all the same. You can extend that to point out that it's a much more entertaining world if you overstate the differences.
...in fact I will come right out and say that some seem to cultivate the utility cyclist image and go out of their way to do so, to the point of casting scorn and derision on the non-utilitarians that 'don't get it'. That puts us on par with the lycra clad obsessive compulsive poseur roadies, except we're obsessive compulsive utilitarians, and even worse because of the 'holier than thou' attitude we try to project.
....feel free to discuss. Refute my observation if you like.
As for your observations - were they from bikeforums? Any illustrative threads you could point out?
See numerous posts on Living Car Free List from some "obsessive compulsive utilitarians" for numerous examples of "holier than thou'" attitude being projected.
See numerous posts on Living Car Free List from some "obsessive compulsive utilitarians" for numerous examples of "holier than thou'" attitude being projected.
Exactly. For a great example, pick out just about any of I-Like-To-Bike's posts and see how much better he is than everyone else. ;)
[color=red]This would have been an interesting topic to post over in Living Car Free.
Chris, I'm happy for you to move it over to LCF if you think it will generate more interest there.
its the sportscar vs old pickup scenario....look at the jerk in the porsche...lol
my first thought when i see a group of road bikers that look like they're in the tour de bike lane is 'look at the jerk in the porsche'......lmao.....well it was when i was into off-road mtb'n....me and my buddy would make fun of them all the time....not directly TO them, of course they couldnt hear us
its all about stereotypes
Well, here's an image of me utility cycling yesterday. :)
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/donnambr/DSCN0993.jpg
"Utility" cycling and "Utility" cyclist in North America for the last 100 yrs
have been largely the poor and the odd balls due to the vast number of
cars on the roads. In Europe and the rest of the world these same cyclist
are viewed as "ordinary folk's" traveling in a "normal" manner.
The car culture in North America will take a long time to kill but die it must
as the cost to support the infrastructure and fuel issues will make the car
to expensive for the masses. These same masses will need mass transport
in the form of rail and busses with the road infrastructure modified to accomodate
more cyclist than ever before.
There will be pain in this change over but it's North America's fault so grin and
bear it. For now it will be tough to be on the leading edge of this painful change
but it's always that way for folk's on the leading edge of any change.
Well, here's an image of me utility cycling yesterday. :)
Do you always travel with a lampshade?
^^^
Donna is always fully prepared. Besides, it's the cover to her floor stand, rear blinky.
One should always travel with a lampshade in case a riotous party breaks out...
The utility cyclists I see have looks that range from high tech to low tech and I figure I sit somewhere in the middle of that...
One thing I do see is that there is less snobbery among this group of cyclists as we are all out there doing something we see as being important for ourselves and our own little corners of the world ans appreciate other people who are doing the same.
I see much more snobbery among extreme road bikers and mountain bikers.
Do you always travel with a lampshade?
Only when someone is moving. My load was pretty light in comparison to some others'.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/donnambr/DSCN0951.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/donnambr/DSCN1020.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/donnambr/DSCN1014.jpg
These are the sorts of utility cycling images that rest in my head.
Only when someone is moving. My load was pretty light in comparison to some others'.
These are the sorts of utility cycling images that rest in my head.
Were you involved in some of those moves? How far did they go? I guess Bailey's trike is not so heavy after all.
Donna - That is some amazing work and some great pictures.
That was all one move - and my very first. The Xtreme Bike Move was 12 miles one way, and the longest on Portland record. It was also the largest with 27 people, 26 bikes, and 24 trailers. It was Spokebreaker's move, and I'm hoping he'll start a thread about it once he's somewhat settled into his new place.
That was all one move - and my very first. The Xtreme Bike Move was 12 miles one way, and the longest on Portland record. It was also the largest with 27 people, 26 bikes, and 24 trailers. It was Spokebreaker's move, and I'm hoping he'll start a thread about it once he's somewhat settled into his new place.
Wow ! Any hills?
Wow ! Any hills?
Yes, although the route was planned to avoid really bad ones.
thats so awesome to see everyone get together to help......thx for the pics
Yes, although the route was planned to avoid really bad ones.
That is impressive !! BTW good photos.
Well, here's an image of me utility cycling yesterday. :)
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/donnambr/DSCN0993.jpg
Looks Like Utility Cycling to me:p
Around here, where I live, if you aren't a Lance wanna be you have to be an alky without a license or a welfaree.:rolleyes:...and actually a lot of them (welfaree's) drive better vehicles than I do. I consider myself a utility cyclist when I ride, I am usually riding to somewhere to pick up something. Usual attire is what ever I happen to be wearing, add a helmet, safety vest and gloves. I was working the low fields last week, plowing and mowing and needed some odds and ends from the grocery store, so off I went in my bib overalls and work boots.:D
Aaron:)
Donna, thanks for posting those pics. You just made my day. :)
So that's the key to wearing your socks outside your pant legs, is using the right socks? Hmmm...
I did hear a little trepidation on the Shift list pre-ride about a bike move (extreme, no less) past Clackamas Town Center on Black Friday, but it sounds like the bikes won! As well they should, bike movers are a tenacious bunch.
So that's the key to wearing your socks outside your pant legs, is using the right socks? Hmmm...
Actually, they're short pants. :)
That was all one move - and my very first. The Xtreme Bike Move was 12 miles one way, and the longest on Portland record. It was also the largest with 27 people, 26 bikes, and 24 trailers. It was Spokebreaker's move, and I'm hoping he'll start a thread about it once he's somewhat settled into his new place.
For arguments sake - How much do you estimate it would cost someone to hire 26 or so people and rent/buy all that equipment to make a local move like that? Vice renting a truck for a couple hours and 2 or 3 people to do the lifting. Fun factor, camaraderie, group hugging and pizza party afterwards are factors to be disregarded; just economics and utility please. ;)
For arguments sake - How much do you estimate it would cost someone to hire 26 or so people and rent/buy all that equipment to make a local move like that? Vice renting a truck for a couple hours and 2 or 3 people to do the lifting. Fun factor, camaraderie, group hugging and pizza party afterwards are factors to be disregarded; just economics and utility please. ;)
What currency do you want to estimate it in? it's pretty easy to work it out in dollars but the currency that matters to me is the environmental costs because it's the hardest debt to repay and the one that will get passed on to my kids. ;)
For arguments sake - How much do you estimate it would cost someone to hire 26 or so people and rent/buy all that equipment to make a local move like that? Vice renting a truck for a couple hours and 2 or 3 people to do the lifting. Fun factor, camaraderie, group hugging and pizza party afterwards are factors to be disregarded; just economics and utility please. ;)
Economics is more complex than you make out. In a sense all human transactions are economic. If those cyclists appreciated the exercise and would have been out riding anyway, their labour costs do not have to be accounted for. Furthermore, the event could be written off as an investment in research and development, into alternate models of utility transportation.
What currency do you want to estimate it in? it's pretty easy to work it out in dollars but the currency that matters to me is the environmental costs because it's the hardest debt to repay and the one that will get passed on to my kids. ;)
On the other hand, where it may break down is the hidden environmental cost of the caloric inputs. In modern agriculture, food production requires a lot of fossil fuel input. Thus the cyclists expending extra energy towing huge loads of furniture and having to make up the calories, may paradoxically have used more fossil fuel than one moving truck, although we would need a detailed analysis to determine that. Of course, if and when we move to a model of truly sustainable agriculture, the bike will win.
For arguments sake - How much do you estimate it would cost someone to hire 26 or so people and rent/buy all that equipment to make a local move like that? Vice renting a truck for a couple hours and 2 or 3 people to do the lifting. Fun factor, camaraderie, group hugging and pizza party afterwards are factors to be disregarded; just economics and utility please. ;)
If you disregard the coffee, pastries, pizza, beer, fun, camaraderie, community involvement, and the knowledge that others will help you when it's time to move, there's no amount of currency that would pay for it. I don't think anyone in those pictures would do it for money.
ummm...isnt that the entire reason we're still stuck on oil?....cuz its cheaper??
it all comes down to money unfortunatly.......my friends laff when i say i will work for food......but thats what im doin anyway........they either feed me and we're done or they pay me and i goto the store and buy food
and why dont you factor in the oil it took to make the truck in the first place....and how much oil it took to get the truck to the rental place......and how much oil it took for the rental place to open and stay in business and how much oil it takes for the employees to get to work everyday.....i wonder how many oil changes those trucks get a year
if you gunna nit pick then atleast be thorough and hit every possible angle there is
arent alot of jobs being outsourced to other countries cuz its cheaper??
For arguments sake - How much do you estimate it would cost someone to hire 26 or so people and rent/buy all that equipment to make a local move like that? Vice renting a truck for a couple hours and 2 or 3 people to do the lifting. Fun factor, camaraderie, group hugging and pizza party afterwards are factors to be disregarded; just economics and utility please. ;)
But fun factor, camaraderie, community-building et cetera actually are economic factors- they're just not easily quantifiable and not able to be easily plugged into a balance sheet.
But fun factor, camaraderie, community-building et cetera actually are economic factors- they're just not easily quantifiable and not able to be easily plugged into a balance sheet.
That is not a bad argument for getting together to do any activity with 26 other pals, especially if they have equipment that they are looking for any excuse to use. But it sure ain't a very practical or utilitarian way to move a household.
What currency do you want to estimate it in? it's pretty easy to work it out in dollars but the currency that matters to me is the environmental costs because it's the hardest debt to repay and the one that will get passed on to my kids. ;)
Wouldn't it be even better for the environment not to move at all?
... ... ...But it sure ain't a very practical or utilitarian way to move a household.
Utilitarian can be defined as 'exhibiting or stressing utility over other values'.
Practical can be defined as 'adapted or designed for actual use'.
I would argue that using trailers to move is both utilitarian and practical.
A bicycle trailer is designed for hauling cargo therefore, it's use as a cargo hauling device confirms it's status as practical.
The speed or efficiency of a moving truck is irrelevent when considering the utility of a series of bicycle trailers. Although utilitarian is a comparative measure, it could be argued that a moving truck is less utilitarian becasue it includes things like air conditioning that are not requisite to the task of moving things, hence they are non-utilitarian.
To respond to the OP- I don't think the general public ever thinks about utility cyclist unless the utility cyclist in front of their SUV is delaying their trip to Starbucks. I'm not sure that 'we' have an 'image' to Average Joe American.
But it sure ain't a very practical or utilitarian way to move a household.
I completely disagree. It was wonderfully practical. We all burned off our Thanksgiving overindulgences in one fell swoop. :D
I completely disagree. It was wonderfully practical. We all burned off our Thanksgiving overindulgences in one fell swoop. :D
BTW where do the 27 people store all those jumbo trailers, presumably with so much money tied up for an occasional weekend outing with their pals?
Utilitarian can be defined as 'exhibiting or stressing utility over other values'.
Practical can be defined as 'adapted or designed for actual use'.
I would argue that using trailers to move is both utilitarian and practical.
Using your "argument" wouldn't it be even more practical just to move the household with a wheelbarrow, or better yet, with no wheeled devices, and with no additional hands?
i only saw one jumbo trailer......and my guess is at their houses with their bikes?
just economics and utility please. ;)
No ! :lol: ;)
There were 3 "jumbo" trailers. I presume they are stored in the garages and sheds of their owners'. Apart from my Burley Flatbed, the 2 Burley Nomads, and a couple of smaller trailers built by their owners, the rest were old kiddie trailers picked up off Craigslist and yard sales. Most of them are collapsible. As to cost, I think the only person who spent any money that day was Spokebreaker. He got the coffee, pastries, pizzas, beer, and extra bungee cords. Oh, there was another guy who couldn't be there for the move, but brought over a pan of lasagna and salad to Spokebreaker's new place. He must have spent some money for the ingredients.
There were 3 "jumbo" trailers. I presume they are stored in the garages and sheds of their owners'. Apart from my Burley Flatbed, the 2 Burley Nomads, and a couple of smaller trailers built by their owners, the rest were old kiddie trailers picked up off Craigslist and yard sales. Most of them are collapsible. As to cost, I think the only person who spent any money that day was Spokebreaker. He got the coffee, pastries, pizzas, beer, and extra bungee cords. Oh, there was another guy who couldn't be there for the move, but brought over a pan of lasagna and salad to Spokebreaker's new place. He must have spent some money for the ingredients.
Do you know what the heaviest load was?
Do you know what the heaviest load was?
It was one of the three jumbo trailers in the previous pictures. I'm not sure which one. Had there been a weigh station nearby, I think we might have taken a detour to check. The guys were joking about it.
we seem al little too disinterested in image,
Not sure if this is what you were referring to but when checking out the guy asked me twice if he wanted me to get the stuff put aside so I could go home and get a car and then the salvation army guy kept stareing at me as I loaded up my bike and my wife couldn't stop laughing at me I may have gone too far. I wonder what our neighbors think now :)
Soooooooooo yeah I think I really need to work on the image of this situation where I look like I live off my bike. I think I have a couple duffells I will bring next time to keep everything a little neater and more worry free. Those drop bar mirrors are awesome for keeping an eye on the load though.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2073/2066942610_9ef60eb16a.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2243/2066142917_9cec80d4e2.jpg?v=0
Imagine all I got out of that load is 6 bananas. It wasn't alot of weight but it was a show. I know didnt' bring bags but the plastic bags are used for the pups walks at times.
Using your "argument" wouldn't it be even more practical just to move the household with a wheelbarrow, or better yet, with no wheeled devices, and with no additional hands?
No sir. You are trying to change my argument.
You said:
it sure ain't a very practical or utilitarian way to move a household.
To which I replied:
I would argue that using trailers to move is both utilitarian and practical.
I never said it was the most utilitarian or the most practical way to move, as you are suggesting. I only refuted your claim that it was "not very utilitarian or practical".
So you see:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h170/HandsomeRyan/Bike101.jpg
No sir. You are trying to change my argument.
You said:
To which I replied:
I never said it was the most utilitarian or the most practical way to move, as you are suggesting. I only refuted your claim that it was "not very utilitarian or practical".
I agree. It is "possible" to move as shown on this thread. I agree that it can be loads of fun when done with pals. Of course so is playing a game of volleyball or touch football with 26 other pals on a nice day. Pizza and beer would make it even more fun and spirited. None of that makes something that is "possible" practical by any normal definition of the word.
utilitarian |yoōˌtiliˈte(ə)rēən| adjective 1 designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive. 2 Philosophy of, relating to, or adhering to the doctrine of utilitarianism : a utilitarian theorist.
utilitarianism |yoōˌtiləˈte(ə)rēəˌnizəm| noun the doctrine that actions are right if they are useful or for the benefit of a majority. • the doctrine that an action is right insofar as it promotes happiness, and that the greatest happiness of the greatest number should be the guiding principle of conduct.
practical |ˈpraktikəl| adjective of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas : there are two obvious practical applications of the research.
I do believe what you are trying to say, ILTB, it that it was not the most efficient way to move. Practical and utilitarian it was.
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