Classic & Vintage - Centerpull Brakes

Im not sure if anybody discussed this subject yet...

Dia-comp in Japan is manufacturing centerpull brakes again, primarily for the Japanese traditional market, and I'm sure they will be available in Europe and North America. It will be a copy if the famous (or infamous!) Weinmann 750 brakes. Rivendell is planning on making a frame available specifically for these brakes.

I was wondering what what you all think of these brakes. I have the Weinmanns on a classic road bike and I don't think they work all that great, even with Mathauser brake pads. Yes, they stop the bike okay, but with a lot of lever pressure. I also have a beater bike with Shimano Tourney conterpulls, and they work way better. I can lock up the rear wheel with one finger pressure. I've never tried the Mafac Racer centerpulls, however.

I'm hoping Rivendell uses braze-ons for these centerpulls so the brake bridge doesn't have to be used. I think it would make for a cleaner design.

Ok, this has been unanswered for too long, I'll take a shot
at it.
I used Weinnmans for a while, and what I had to do was
really tighten up the cable, the problem as far as I was
concerned was the levers, not the calipers.
If the cable is stretched, or the levers aren't done right
no matter what brake pads you have, it ain't gonna matter.
I personally liked the Gran Compes, fancy looking things
that just plain worked.
I'm not sure what you mean about braze on vs brake bridge.
I've never seen a braze on for centerpulls. Do you mean
for the cable stop/hanger on the rear?
I have some Mafac Racers, NOS in the box I'm saving for
some project that will roll around. Haven't used them
but my recollection were that they were ok, nothing to
write home about.

Marty

Center pull brakes = pain-in-the-ass.

They are difficult to maintain and adjust. You need a special third-hand tool to get them on. They don't do as good of a job at braking as side pulls.

They may be nostalgic for the purist, but I replaced center pulls with side pulls on my oldies.

lotek,

What I mean by braze-ons vs brake bridge is on centerpulls the "brake bridge" is the aluminum plate behind the caliper arms that acts as the "fulcrum" where the arms rotate, or something like that. Hard to explain, I'd have to show you.

Anyway, on some old fine French bikes like the Alex Singer and Rene Herse this plate behind the brake arms was eliminated in favor of "braze-ons" where I believe the centerpull brake arms were bolted directly to them, much like cantilever brake arms are bolted directly to the braze-ons, except there braze-ons are above the wheel rim instead of below, much like those old mountain bikes with those cam-operated thingies.

Know what I mean? I hope I didn't confuse you more. Wish I had a photo!

Ok, now I know what you are talking about.
I'm sure if you talked to Grant Petersen (Rivendell) he'd
build you anything you want. Singer/Herse were the mold
for the bikes he builds, more randoneur than racing eh?
If you want Mafac Racers send me PM.

Marty

Wonder why they chose the 750 model for resurrection? I, and I'd wager many others, thought the 999 model to be better. Those brakes were on anything from Schwinn Continentals to bikes raced pro in Europe.

Just befor I bought my Motobecane I tried building an old, even in the later 1970s, English frame. Working in a Schwinn shop I scrounged a used set of the sidepulls (Weinmann, DiaCompe?) from a totalled Varsity. Pretty poor brakes. I replaced the rear with a Mafac Racer and was truly impressed with the performance. Probably not really great but a definite upgrade.

The Moto had the 999 centerpulls and with Matthauser pads were pretty decent though the Matthausers were noisy.

750 is a size designation, Walter. The short-reach version was the 610. The model designation was Vainqueur 999. Yes, Weinmann centerpulls are not the world's best brakes, but they are better than either the comparable Weinmann sidepulls or first-generation Campag. sidepulls. (I can speak from firsthand experience.)

My brakes, in order of decreasing effectiveness, are:
1) 1988 SunTour RollerCam front / Shimano U-Brake rear w/ 4-finger Shimano levers;

2) 1980 Galli short-to-med. reach sidepulls w/ Shimano aero levers;

3) 1973 Mafac Racer centerpulls w/ Weinmann nonaero levers;
3) 1959 Weinmann 999 centerpulls w/ original levers;

5) 1970s Campag. sidepulls w/ Shimano aero levers.

I use KoolStop pads exclusively.

Thanks John, I never knew that. Still learning.

Interesting, John. I thought I was one of the last poor retro souls to keep a rear u-brake! The old rockhopper commuter/'cross conversion uses a rear u and tektro onyx canti's in the front.

I'd have to say the best (most effective) ones I currently use are the Altenburger Syncron dual pivots on my NSU, and I'm even using generic pads :)

yes but by far the worst ever brake was the
Modolo Kronos. Ridiculously expensive and very effective
at shaving say 1mph off your speed when fully applied.
But I still wouldn't mind having a pair.
Marty

My mountain bike's very-retro old-school brakes (under-the-chainstay Shimano U-brake in back, SunTour Rollercam in front, long 4-finger motorcycle-style Shimano levers) are very good.

The key to safe operation of Weinmann 999s or their DiaCompe clones is to keep all control and straddle cables as short as possible. In turn, this requires VERY true rims, so that the pads can be set within a couple of mm of the braking surface. The calipers themselves are decent enough, the brake handles are wonderful for those of us with modest-sized hands, but the original brake pads did not work well, and the entire lever - cable - hanger - pivot system does suffer from excess mechanical flex/compression/slop.

Interesting, John. I thought I was one of the last poor retro souls to keep a rear u-brake! The old rockhopper commuter/'cross conversion uses a rear u and tektro onyx canti's in the front.

I'd have to say the best (most effective) ones I currently use are the Altenburger Syncron dual pivots on my NSU, and I'm even using generic pads :)

you're not the only one, i also have an old school MTB with under the chainstay U-brakes. its a bright yellow 88 trek 850. the top tube and seat tube are lugged together. its pretty cool!

cool bike! Oddly enough I'm considering painting the 'hopper yellow for visibility.

I have Weinemanns or DiaCompes on several of mine and with kool stop pads, they meet my needs. A plus for the DiaCompes is they are forged. I don't think the Weinmanns are or at least they don't say so on the brake. Don

Grant said in the Rivendell Reader that Dia-Compe doesn't have the tooling for the short-reach ones anymore.

Have to say I had Weinmann CP's on bikes for years and found them to be ok except when fully loaded.

I think they look great on older bikes and see they were used in the TdF at one time.