Foo - Computer won't start. Why?

So I took off my towers panel so I could take out one of the RAM cards to see the type I'm running and the buy some more. I did that, put the ram back in, and now my computer won't start. I press the power button and it immediately shuts off the second I release the power button. Then it starts up again 3-5 seconds later on it's own. There is a beeping coming from inside the computer though as a warning I assume.

When it starts up the second time it sounds normal, besides the beeping, but nothing happens. The monitor doesn't display anything and is apparently receiving no signal as it is in standby mode.

What did I do wrong? What do I do to fix it?

P.S. - I'm on another computer obviously.

So I took off my towers panel so I could take out one of the RAM cards to see the type I'm running and the buy some more. I did that, put the ram back in, and now my computer won't start. I press the power button and it immediately shuts off the second I release the power button. Then it starts up again 3-5 seconds later on it's own. There is a beeping coming from inside the computer though as a warning I assume.

When it starts up the second time it sounds normal, besides the beeping, but nothing happens. The monitor doesn't display anything and is apparently receiving no signal as it is in standby mode.

What did I do wrong? What do I do to fix it?

P.S. - I'm on another computer obviously.

I'd start by popping it open, and reseating the RAM. I'm guessing the SIMM just didn't get in well enough.

... Brad

You were right. I was an idiot. I stupidly was not locking it in correctly. While I seated the stick at the bottom, it apparently wasn't the bottom. I forgot I needed to lock in the tabs into the indents on the stick. I'm back on my computer now.

Now, next question. This is the type of ram in my computer. DDR2 256 mb. I have 2 sticks for 512 total. I can easily pick up 1-2 gb's of ram for cheap at tigerdirect or newegg. My computer has 4 slots total for RAM. If I want to keep this ram and use it in conjunction with new ram, what speed do I get? I can't tell from the sticker on what I have now. Or would I be better off just getting some new DDR2 Ram with a decent processing speed and not use the 512 I have now?

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5373/dsc03126xm8.jpg

You've got PC2-3200 (400mhz)

The "faster" ones will operate at this speed too, and you might pull them for your next pc. So consider PC2-4200 (533mhz) or PC2-5300 (667mhz) as well. They may not end up costing more.

Use the configurator on the left frame of this page (http://shop.kingston.com/memtype_parts.asp?type=DDR2+PC2+3200) to ensure you have selected the right stuff.

Did you check the metering rod in the carburetor?

Did you check the metering rod in the carburetor?

:beer:


Good one. I realize this is foo, but someone who can post a picture close up and in focus will very likely get a straight answer out of me. :D

You've got PC2-3200 (400mhz)

The "faster" ones will operate at this speed too, and you might pull them for your next pc. So consider PC2-4200 (533mhz) or PC2-5300 (667mhz) as well. They may not end up costing more.

Use the configurator on the left frame of this page (http://shop.kingston.com/memtype_parts.asp?type=DDR2+PC2+3200) to ensure you have selected the right stuff.

Thanks for the help. Don't I need to match the mhz of the ram so they operate at the same speeds? I don't even know what the 3200/4200/5300 parts mean, but I thought what mattered was making sure all my RAM was 400 mhz, or 533 mhz, or 667 mhz? Not true?

I'm pretty sure that if you were to add 2x512 PC-4200 that you'd be fine. Just add them in pairs, and note that they'll operate at bus speed, which is likely to be 400mhz.

I just swapped out 2x512 PC-4200's for 2x1GB PC-5300's. They were the same price, so what do I care if they operate at 533mhz (my lappy's bus speed) instead of 667?

Use the configurator to be certain...

I think we're talking about two different situations. You're completely swapping out old ram for new ram and not using the old ram. I was asking in terms of being able to buy two new sticks of ram and use them in conjunction with the old ram since I have 4 slots in my pc for ram.

Thanks for the link. Here's what it says:

This system is configurable and may ship with either DDR2-400 (KTD-DM8400/xx) or DDR2-533 (KTD-DM8400A/xx). These are compatible and can be mixed, however when mixed they will default to DDR2-400.

So this means I can buy 533 mhz ddr2 memory and use it with my current ram as well with no problems except the 533 will only operate at 400, correct? I assume operating 2048 mbs at 533 mhz is slower than 2560 at 400. How can I calculate that?

I think we're talking about two different situations. You're completely swapping out old ram for new ram and not using the old ram.


True, but that is only because I have 2 slots total. Otherwise, I would have simply added 2x512 to get to 2GB.



This system is configurable and may ship with either DDR2-400 (KTD-DM8400/xx) or DDR2-533 (KTD-DM8400A/xx). These are compatible and can be mixed, however when mixed they will default to DDR2-400.

So this means I can buy 533 mhz ddr2 memory and use it with my current ram as well with no problems except the 533 will only operate at 400, correct? I assume operating 2048 mbs at 533 mhz is slower than 2560 at 400. How can I calculate that?


Yep, that's what it means. I interpret that as saying that your CPU bus runs at 533mhz and the existing DRAM is slowing you down. How much is the question and this depends on workload. It's possible that the difference is not enough to notice. You could run benchmarks to measure, but my gut is saying that if you didn't have enough RAM (and were paging to disk), the difference in increased capacity will be quite noticeable. On the other hand, if your current workload can fit in available RAM, adding more will have very little impact.

Thanks for all the help. How often does memory not work? I'm looking to buy some cheap RAM from this one site and they offer a service to make sure the memory works before shipping to guarantee non-DOA. Sure I'm buying cheap memory and its not name brand, but is it that unreliable? It's only $5, but if I don't have to spend $5 more then I have to I won't.

Here's the link: http://www.komusa.com/kofco1533pcc.html

What do you think?

I have never heard of a DOA pre-ship test. That doesn't sound promising...

Here is a quote from someone highly respected in my gaming clan:


There are 4 brands I buy. Mushkin, Crucial, Corsair and Kingston. All are very stable and have lifetime warranties. Speaking about Kingston alone, their normal/value stuff doesn't usually have a lot of headroom if you want to overclock, but at stock or slightly overclocked speeds the stuff is rock solid and usually is a bargain.


BTW, Newegg.com is a reliable source

Thanks again for the help. Can't wait. Going from 512 to over 2500 will be a big difference. Should be nice and smooth.

Make sure your comp can run more than 1gb ram. My computer came with 512 and I recently added another 512 DDR stick. Unfortunatly, I can't take more than the 1gb. Oh well.

Yea I can run up to 4 GB. Dell 4700.

Ok so now I have the new memory, but it won't work. I don't get it. Someone want to give me a guess why? I made sure I seated the memory right as well.

I've tried just using the new memory without the old and in the alternating slots for matched RAM. Nothing. I've tried just using one of the sticks and no other ram. Nothing.

What could be wrong? Does ram arrive DOA often? Why would it be DOA?

Do I have the right ram? Here's a pic:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9766/dsc03127hh5.jpg



I have a dell 4700. Specs here: http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/product_support/product_support_central?~ck=ln&c=us&l=en&lnki=0&s=gen&ServiceTag=gglv081


What do I do now?

Ok so now I have the new memory, but it won't work. I don't get it. Someone want to give me a guess why? I made sure I seated the memory right as well.

I've tried just using the new memory without the old and in the alternating slots for matched RAM. Nothing. I've tried just using one of the sticks and no other ram. Nothing.

What could be wrong? Does ram arrive DOA often? Why would it be DOA?

Do I have the right ram? Here's a pic:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9766/dsc03127hh5.jpg



I have a dell 4700. Specs here: http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/product_support/product_support_central?~ck=ln&c=us&l=en&lnki=0&s=gen&ServiceTag=gglv081


What do I do now?

Check this link for the specs of the 4700 with compatible memory.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/specs.htm#wp1052320

here is a quick extract, I'm not sure if only the 2 types of RAM in bold are compatible, or if any in between is. Ring Dell and find out.


Technical Specifications
Dell Dimension 4700 Series Service Manual



Processor

Processor type
Intel� Pentium� 4 processor 520, 530, 540, 550, 560, or 570 with HT Technology

Intel Pentium 4 that runs at 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8 GHz internally and 800 MHz externally

Level 1 (L1) cache
16 KB

Level 2 (L2) cache
1-MB (displayed in system setup) pipelined-burst, eight-way set associative, write-back SRAM



Memory

Type
400-MHz (PC2-3200) and 533-MHz (PC2-4300) DDR2 unbuffered SDRAM non-ECC

Memory connectors
four

Memory capacities
128-, 256-, 512-, or 1-GB non-ECC

Minimum memory
128 MB

NOTE: Up to 128 MB of system memory may be allocated to support graphics, depending on system memory size and other factors.

From what I can tell the only thing I didn't match up was the PC2-4300. I bought PC2-4200. What does that number signify? Why did Dell use 4300 when 4200 seems to be the standard? Pricewatch.com and tigerdirect.com don't sell any ddr2 4300 memory. Newegg.com only sells 1 dual channel ddr2 4300 stick.

Is that what needs to match?

From what I can tell the only thing I didn't match up was the PC2-4300. I bought PC2-4200. What does that number signify? Why did Dell use 4300 when 4200 seems to be the standard? Pricewatch.com and tigerdirect.com don't sell any ddr2 4300 memory. Newegg.com only sells 1 dual channel ddr2 4300 stick.

Is that what needs to match?

I'm not sure what the difference is between PC4200 and PC4300, they both run the same bus speeds of 533. It's been a long time since I was up to speed on desktop technology, so I can't be sure. Some RAM run different voltages, maybe thats the difference. Let me check my good friend Google and get back to you with some info if I can.

I'm not sure what the difference is between PC4200 and PC4300, they both run the same bus speeds of 533. It's been a long time since I was up to speed on desktop technology, so I can't be sure. Some RAM run different voltages, maybe thats the difference. Let me check my good friend Google and get back to you with some info if I can.

Reading a few nerd forums, it looks like 4200 and 4300 are the same. Memory is classified by multiplying the clock by 8. So, 533MHz (clock) * 8 = 4264. It all depends on how manufacturers round - some round up to 4300, others round down to 4200. Same RAM.
Make sure the RAM is placed in the first dimm closest to the CPU and the 2nd DIMM is placed in the opposing DIMM on the other bank, usually the same colour.

Did you try to reboot and reseat a few times. I have had to do that a few times to get new RAM to work on some systems.

Here are the beep codes for the PC, see if you can tell what the error is, obviously, more than likely the top 2. Can you get the PC to work with the old memory? DO you have another PC to try the new memory in?


Code
Cause
1-3-1 through 2-4-4
Memory not being properly identified or used
4-3-1
Memory failure above address 0FFFFh

If you hear one of the following beep codes, see "Contacting Dell" in your Owner's Manual for instructions on obtaining technical assistance.

Code
Cause
1-1-2
Microprocessor register failure
1-1-3
NVRAM
1-1-4
ROM BIOS checksum failure
1-2-1
Programmable interval timer
1-2-2
DMA initialization failure
1-2-3
DMA page register read/write failure
3-1-1
Slave DMA register failure
3-1-2
Master DMA register failure
3-1-3
Master interrupt mask register failure
3-1-4
Slave interrupt mask register failure
3-2-2
Interrupt vector loading failure
3-2-4
Keyboard Controller Test failure
3-3-1
NVRAM power loss
3-3-2
NVRAM configuration
3-3-4
Video Memory Test failure
3-4-1
Screen initialization failure
3-4-2
Screen retrace failure
3-4-3
Search for video ROM failure
4-2-1
No time tick
4-2-2
Shutdown failure
4-2-3
Gate A20 failure
4-2-4
Unexpected interrupt in protected mode
4-3-3
Timer-chip counter 2 failure
4-3-4
Time-of-day clock stopped
4-4-1
Serial or parallel port test failure
4-4-4
Cache test failure

http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/

Get a Mac.

Get a Mac.

No.

Here are the beep codes for the PC, see if you can tell what the error is, obviously, more than likely the top 2. Can you get the PC to work with the old memory? DO you have another PC to try the new memory in?


Code
Cause
1-3-1 through 2-4-4
Memory not being properly identified or used
4-3-1
Memory failure above address 0FFFFh

If you hear one of the following beep codes, see "Contacting Dell" in your Owner's Manual for instructions on obtaining technical assistance.

Code
Cause
1-1-2
Microprocessor register failure
1-1-3
NVRAM
1-1-4
ROM BIOS checksum failure
1-2-1
Programmable interval timer
1-2-2
DMA initialization failure
1-2-3
DMA page register read/write failure
3-1-1
Slave DMA register failure
3-1-2
Master DMA register failure
3-1-3
Master interrupt mask register failure
3-1-4
Slave interrupt mask register failure
3-2-2
Interrupt vector loading failure
3-2-4
Keyboard Controller Test failure
3-3-1
NVRAM power loss
3-3-2
NVRAM configuration
3-3-4
Video Memory Test failure
3-4-1
Screen initialization failure
3-4-2
Screen retrace failure
3-4-3
Search for video ROM failure
4-2-1
No time tick
4-2-2
Shutdown failure
4-2-3
Gate A20 failure
4-2-4
Unexpected interrupt in protected mode
4-3-3
Timer-chip counter 2 failure
4-3-4
Time-of-day clock stopped
4-4-1
Serial or parallel port test failure
4-4-4
Cache test failure

I don't know what mine is doing. I uploaded a video of my computer beeping. I think its trying to ask me to marry it. I don't know. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfFTOjc-JrE

So it's either:

1-1-4
ROM BIOS checksum failure

1-2-3
DMA page register read/write failure

or

3-1-2
Master DMA register failure

There were 6 beeps right?

I don't know what mine is doing. I uploaded a video of my computer beeping. I think its trying to ask me to marry it. I don't know. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfFTOjc-JrE


That sounded like 1-3-2, first code, memory not being identified or used. Do you have other RAM to try.

There should be 4 lights on the board too, what are the light configurations of that when you boot?

Try and boot into BIOS and see if there is any options for RAM size\amounts\speed or something.

No.

Your misery is not only self-inflicted, it is well deserved.

I've tried just using the new memory without the old and in the alternating slots for matched RAM. Nothing. I've tried just using one of the sticks and no other ram. Nothing.

What do I do now?Go back to your original configuration and put in one of the 256mb of the Micron RAM and see if it'll start. If not, you've got other problems aside from the memory. Also make sure you guard against static electricity. Leave the power-cord plugged in and always touch the power-supply case before opening the computer and touching anything.

That sounded like 1-3-2, first code, memory not being identified or used. Do you have other RAM to try.

There should be 4 lights on the board too, what are the light configurations of that when you boot?

Try and boot into BIOS and see if there is any options for RAM size\amounts\speed or something.

Apparently my 4700 is capable of running the 533 mhz with the 400 mhz, but will downgrade the 533 to 400. Maybe I need to tell the computer to accept the 533 in BIOS?

Apparently my 4700 is capable of running the 533 mhz with the 400 mhz, but will downgrade the 533 to 400. Maybe I need to tell the computer to accept the 533 in BIOS?

Most modern PC's should step down the speed automatically, but have a look, could be it.

As stated last post, try the original config and make sure you can boot.

Most modern PC's should step down the speed automatically, but have a look.

As stated last post, try the original config and make sure you can boot.

Try the original ram configuration? That's what I'm doing now. Once I put the old ram in it works fine.

Try the original ram configuration? That's what I'm doing now. Once I put the old ram in it works fine.


OK, so it's definately the new RAM. It's either a config, compatibility or defect issue.

Maybe you need "special" RAM from dell to be compatible. If you check the website for upgrades for the 4700, it shows some RAM that is only compatible with the 4700. So maybe they have reversed the polarity or something on the RAM. A bit like Apple where you have to be special hardware, only from them

OK, so it's definately the new RAM. It's either a config, compatibility or defect issue.

This is the ram I bought: http://www.komusa.com/kofco1533pcc.html

PC-4200 unbuffered non-ecc 240 pin DDR2 533 mhz. From what I can tell those are all compatible with my dell 4700. What is the CAS latency?

What're the chances 2 sticks would both not work and be defective? The computer can run on just one stick as I just tried.

Am I wrong and these sticks are not compatible? If it's a config thing then what do I config?

CAS latency, is how quickly the RAM responds to a command.

It's not unusual for Dell to use specific hardware for their systems.

As for config, I checked the Dell here at work (Optiplex 745), and the BIOS has very minimal config options, I couldn't find anything for memory or RAM.

Do you have another PC, or a friends PC to try the RAM on? If it works, you know the RAM works.

Might have to ask Dell about compatibility.

I have a feeling that the memory I have now has a lower CAS latency setting than the new memory. If the computer has a set CAS latency it won't boot with the slower CAS latency of the new computer. I don't have the option to adjust the CAS in BIOS. Know anywhere else I can do that?

I have another computer that is a couple years old and most likely wouldn't be compatible with this

It used to be easier for a Machead to tweak the Windows Weenies. They have Hardened the F Up. Kudos.

Did you get the 64Mx8 or the 128Mx4 memory? Due to the address-line configuration of the memory controller (hinted by the interleaving of alternate slots), you need the low-density 64Mx8 memory in the 1GB sticks.

Did you get the 64Mx8 or the 128Mx4 memory? Due to the address-line configuration of the memory controller (hinted by the interleaving of alternate slots), you need the low-density 64Mx8 memory in the 1GB sticks.

Most likely got the 128X4 since I didn't add the $15 for the low density. I guess that could be the problem huh? Mind explaining why this is a huge deal?

Most likely got the 128X4 since I didn't add the $15 for the low density. I guess that could be the problem huh? Mind explaining why this is a huge deal?

The link you posted was for 64m x 8. If you have 128m x 4, that is most likely your problem. Difference is below, also for CAS latency, change the "RAM Cycle length" in your BIOS\Advanced Chipset Features or something similiar.

Cut and Paste from another site.
Standard' RAM chips are organized a DEPTH x 8 Bits. E.g. 32x8, 64x8, etc. That means 8 of the chips make up a 64 bit wide rank (memory bus is 64 bits wide). "Double Sided" is an old term to describe a stick
with 16 chips, 8 on each side. And with DEPTH x 8 chips that makes for 2 ranks (or, again in an older style terminology: 2 'banks').

'High Density' chips are DEPTH x 4 bits so it takes 16 to make a 64 bit wide memory rank. And this is why "double sided" is no longer the favored description because when x8 chips are used "Double sided"
means "double rank" but with x4 chips it takes both sides and 16 chips to make the ONE, single, rank.

Now to the problem. A memory 'slot' is usually designed for 'standard' x8 chips and memory sticks containing 2 ranks. That is how the 'capacity' will be described. I.E. the K7S5A says it can handle up to
"1 gig" with two DDR slots, and that means 512Meg per slot, which means 256 Meg PER RANK. (2 ranks per slot, 2 slots, etc)

But a 'high density' memory stick crams the 512 Meg into ONE RANK by using 16 deeper (twice as deep) x4 bit width chips. And this is how they arrive at the confusing term 'high density'. The chips themselves
are no higher in density than the x8 chips but since they are organized as x4 they can cram more 'bytes' into a single rank because 16 chips make up a rank rather than 8, not that it helps make the
stick itself any 'higher' in 'density' because you can still only get 16 chips mounted on the thing.

So, a 512 Meg 'high density' stick puts 512 Meg in ONE RANK and a 'standard' density 512 Meg stick is two 256 Meg Ranks. Same size, same 'density'. It's the RANK organization that's different.

The link you posted was for 64m x 8. If you have 128m x 4, that is most likely your problem. Difference is below, also for CAS latency, change the "RAM Cycle length" in your BIOS\Advanced Chipset Features or something similiar.

Cut and Paste from another site.
Standard' RAM chips are organized a DEPTH x 8 Bits. E.g. 32x8, 64x8, etc. That means 8 of the chips make up a 64 bit wide rank (memory bus is 64 bits wide). "Double Sided" is an old term to describe a stick
with 16 chips, 8 on each side. And with DEPTH x 8 chips that makes for 2 ranks (or, again in an older style terminology: 2 'banks').

'High Density' chips are DEPTH x 4 bits so it takes 16 to make a 64 bit wide memory rank. And this is why "double sided" is no longer the favored description because when x8 chips are used "Double sided"
means "double rank" but with x4 chips it takes both sides and 16 chips to make the ONE, single, rank.

Now to the problem. A memory 'slot' is usually designed for 'standard' x8 chips and memory sticks containing 2 ranks. That is how the 'capacity' will be described. I.E. the K7S5A says it can handle up to
"1 gig" with two DDR slots, and that means 512Meg per slot, which means 256 Meg PER RANK. (2 ranks per slot, 2 slots, etc)

But a 'high density' memory stick crams the 512 Meg into ONE RANK by using 16 deeper (twice as deep) x4 bit width chips. And this is how they arrive at the confusing term 'high density'. The chips themselves
are no higher in density than the x8 chips but since they are organized as x4 they can cram more 'bytes' into a single rank because 16 chips make up a rank rather than 8, not that it helps make the
stick itself any 'higher' in 'density' because you can still only get 16 chips mounted on the thing.

So, a 512 Meg 'high density' stick puts 512 Meg in ONE RANK and a 'standard' density 512 Meg stick is two 256 Meg Ranks. Same size, same 'density'. It's the RANK organization that's different.

Thanks for the explanation.

The link I sent is tricky. They sell the same memory stick in high and low density. You need to select the low density version in a drop down box at the bottom. Low density costs an extra $15.00 for some reason even though it's the more popular/produced type of ram. The high-density is the flat $30. I just ordered the memory, but in low density for $45 shipped. Hopefully the big problem was that density issue and the CAS won't be an issue this time.

When I go into my BIOS and scroll down to the memory screen it says there are no changeable options on the page. Is there anywhere else to change cycling length, ie CAS?

For DDR2, get the best timing memory you can at the exact speed you will be running it at. This will assure optimum performance in a non-overclocked environment.

Buying faster than you need is a nice piece of upgrade insurance, but the timings are usually not as tight and that means lower performance unless you overclock the bus.

Also consider buying matched pairs...I've found that a matched pair often is the same cost or less than two separate sticks, and often are of above average quality for that specific maker.

Got the new RAM in today. The problem was the low vs high density. Low density is the RAM to use for all major brand PC's. Computer runs like a champ with 2.5 gb running at 400 mhz. Awesome. Down with Macs! Long live King PC!