don d.
09-02-03, 06:06 PM
Cipollini has changed his mind and has decided to ride the Vuelta. Procycling News reports:
www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=4656
www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?newsId=4656
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Cipo in the Vuelta; Domina in the Vuelta
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don d.
09-02-03, 10:29 PM
The Daily Peloton is also reporting that Cipollini will ride the Vuelta:
www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=4643
Scroll down; it's near the bottom.
www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=4643
Scroll down; it's near the bottom.
Ba-Dg-Er
09-02-03, 10:53 PM
Cyclingnews is still reporting that neither he nor Domina Vacanze will be in the Vuelta.
No replacement for Domina Vacanze
Vuelta a Espaņa organisers Unipublic have confirmed the exclusion of Mario Cipollini's Domina Vacanze team from the Spanish national tour because of the absence of Cipo himself from the team, and added that the race will simply be reduced to 21 teams instead of 22.
Pointing out that "it's Cipollini who has left them in the stockade," Unipublic director general Enrique Franco reiterated that Domina Vacanze's participation had been conditional on Cipollini's attendence. "Domina asked to take part in the Vuelta and we said that they could do so as long as Cipollini came. We only had room for 22 teams and we had to exclude others so that they could come," Franco told the Europa Press.
No replacement for Domina Vacanze
Vuelta a Espaņa organisers Unipublic have confirmed the exclusion of Mario Cipollini's Domina Vacanze team from the Spanish national tour because of the absence of Cipo himself from the team, and added that the race will simply be reduced to 21 teams instead of 22.
Pointing out that "it's Cipollini who has left them in the stockade," Unipublic director general Enrique Franco reiterated that Domina Vacanze's participation had been conditional on Cipollini's attendence. "Domina asked to take part in the Vuelta and we said that they could do so as long as Cipollini came. We only had room for 22 teams and we had to exclude others so that they could come," Franco told the Europa Press.
don d.
09-03-03, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Also see http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?threadid=36519
Doesn't this belong in the shameless self promotion thread?;) :p
So which will it be in the ongoing saga of Cipo in-or-out? Stay Tuned. The Vuelta announces tomorrow the final 22 teams starting the race.
Also see http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?threadid=36519
Doesn't this belong in the shameless self promotion thread?;) :p
So which will it be in the ongoing saga of Cipo in-or-out? Stay Tuned. The Vuelta announces tomorrow the final 22 teams starting the race.
caadman
09-03-03, 07:52 AM
Well I don't know who to belive, I read Cylingnews primarly, so would think that he's not going, but I know those other pubs are credible for the most part, so hopefully he will be entereing the Vuelta, I know I sure have missed watching him race this summer, and look forward to his participation in this grand tour, and seeing the world champion colores and bike, it's soo cool!!..
I guess we'll know officially after thursday night..
Benjamin
I guess we'll know officially after thursday night..
Benjamin
Ba-Dg-Er
09-03-03, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by don d.
Doesn't this belong in the shameless self promotion thread?;) :p
Well considering you were unable to search the forums to see if this topic was already being discussed I was merely trying to combine the threads. Way to achieve ... please see my avatar.
Doesn't this belong in the shameless self promotion thread?;) :p
Well considering you were unable to search the forums to see if this topic was already being discussed I was merely trying to combine the threads. Way to achieve ... please see my avatar.
Laggard
09-03-03, 02:07 PM
It's dissapointing that Cipo gets so much discussion.
Ba-Dg-Er
09-03-03, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Laggard
It's dissapointing that Cipo gets so much discussion.
Why? He's the current world champion, has the record for most Giro stage wins, etc. He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France. Certainly Cipo makes some interesting decisions, but as does Lance ... didn't he promise Heras he would ride in support of him in the Vuelta and then not show?
It's dissapointing that Cipo gets so much discussion.
Why? He's the current world champion, has the record for most Giro stage wins, etc. He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France. Certainly Cipo makes some interesting decisions, but as does Lance ... didn't he promise Heras he would ride in support of him in the Vuelta and then not show?
don d.
09-03-03, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Well considering you were unable to search the forums to see if this topic was already being discussed I was merely trying to combine the threads. Way to achieve ... please see my avatar.
wow...that's kinda chilling. if you noticed my smilies, my post was in good humor; to bad you've lost yours.
Well considering you were unable to search the forums to see if this topic was already being discussed I was merely trying to combine the threads. Way to achieve ... please see my avatar.
wow...that's kinda chilling. if you noticed my smilies, my post was in good humor; to bad you've lost yours.
Ba-Dg-Er
09-03-03, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by don d.
wow...that's kinda chilling. if you noticed my smilies, my post was in good humor; to bad you've lost yours.
I found no humor in it ... you should have posted to the thread that was already created instead of "self-promoting" yourself by adding a new topic, that's all there is to it. Further personal discussion with me in this thread will be ignored, feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this.
wow...that's kinda chilling. if you noticed my smilies, my post was in good humor; to bad you've lost yours.
I found no humor in it ... you should have posted to the thread that was already created instead of "self-promoting" yourself by adding a new topic, that's all there is to it. Further personal discussion with me in this thread will be ignored, feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this.
don d.
09-03-03, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
I found no humor in it ... you should have posted to the thread that was already created instead of "self-promoting" yourself by adding a new topic, that's all there is to it. Further personal discussion with me in this thread will be ignored, feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this.
I think your fantasies are way out of hand. Sad.:(
I found no humor in it ... you should have posted to the thread that was already created instead of "self-promoting" yourself by adding a new topic, that's all there is to it. Further personal discussion with me in this thread will be ignored, feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this.
I think your fantasies are way out of hand. Sad.:(
Alex33
09-03-03, 04:11 PM
I think it was all a misunderstanding, guys. It happens when you're typing instead of talking face-to-face.
Let's get back to bashing Cipo or the Vuelta organizers, whichever side you're on...
Let's get back to bashing Cipo or the Vuelta organizers, whichever side you're on...
don d.
09-03-03, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Alex33
I think it was all a misunderstanding, guys. It happens when you're typing instead of talking face-to-face.
Let's get back to bashing Cipo or the Vuelta organizers, whichever side you're on...
I agree. Thanks for saying that. I thought we were having fun.:beer:
I think it was all a misunderstanding, guys. It happens when you're typing instead of talking face-to-face.
Let's get back to bashing Cipo or the Vuelta organizers, whichever side you're on...
I agree. Thanks for saying that. I thought we were having fun.:beer:
Laggard
09-03-03, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Why? He's the current world champion, has the record for most Giro stage wins, etc. He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France. Certainly Cipo makes some interesting decisions, but as does Lance ... didn't he promise Heras he would ride in support of him in the Vuelta and then not show?
He's a primadona who can't finish a stage race.
Yeah, he can sprint but so what? Baden, Zabel and McGee can sprint also but they actually finished the tour.
He's a has been. Let's discuss someone who's at the top of their game and actually trying.
Why? He's the current world champion, has the record for most Giro stage wins, etc. He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France. Certainly Cipo makes some interesting decisions, but as does Lance ... didn't he promise Heras he would ride in support of him in the Vuelta and then not show?
He's a primadona who can't finish a stage race.
Yeah, he can sprint but so what? Baden, Zabel and McGee can sprint also but they actually finished the tour.
He's a has been. Let's discuss someone who's at the top of their game and actually trying.
don d.
09-03-03, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Laggard
...He's a primadona...
'Nuff said!:beer:
...He's a primadona...
'Nuff said!:beer:
brent_dube
09-03-03, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France.
'in sprinting alone'? What is so special about that? What else do you expect him to do?
He is an amazing sprinter and in such has specialized in sprinting alone just like Lance has specialized in the Tour de France.
'in sprinting alone'? What is so special about that? What else do you expect him to do?
Ba-Dg-Er
09-04-03, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by brent_dube
'in sprinting alone'? What is so special about that? What else do you expect him to do?
Can you outsprint him? Can anyone repeatdly outsprint him? Has he proved he has what it takes to be world champion? Seems to me it's pretty special.
'in sprinting alone'? What is so special about that? What else do you expect him to do?
Can you outsprint him? Can anyone repeatdly outsprint him? Has he proved he has what it takes to be world champion? Seems to me it's pretty special.
don d.
09-04-03, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
...this thread will be ignored...
...and I was so hoping. Please stop sending me PM's and deleting them. I have no interest in dialog with you.:rolleyes:
...this thread will be ignored...
...and I was so hoping. Please stop sending me PM's and deleting them. I have no interest in dialog with you.:rolleyes:
don d.
09-04-03, 06:00 AM
Procycling news is now reporting that Cipollini and Domina will not ride the Vuelta:
www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?Id=4665
www.procycling.com/news_main.asp?Id=4665
lotek
09-04-03, 08:25 AM
Cycling News is now reporting that Cipo and Domina will
be in the Vuelta.
I'm so confused :confused:
Marty
be in the Vuelta.
I'm so confused :confused:
Marty
Laggard
09-04-03, 08:54 AM
The Vuelta said a while back that the team is welcome IF Cipo will do the Vuelta. Mario at first decided that he wasn't going to race it. He's since changed his mind.
Ba-Dg-Er
09-04-03, 11:09 AM
VeloNews is also reporting that Domina Vacanze and Cipollini will be at the Vuelta .... http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/4922.0.html ... as of "late Wednesday."
Ba-Dg-Er
09-04-03, 11:12 AM
PezCycling News also has a story about Cipo riding the Vuelta and the Belgium house searches...
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=1580
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=1580
Ba-Dg-Er
09-04-03, 11:17 AM
If Cipollini does ride, does anyone want to take a guess at how long he's in until he drops out?
It kind of hurts his credability with the Tour de France organizers that he was invited then said no, then yes, then no, then yes, etc. And I think it will be especially damaging after all this if he only makes it a couple stages and then drops out. I think if he wants to ever have a chance at riding the Tour de France again he needs to finish the Vuelta, and with good results.
My guess .... Stage 7 on the Col d'Aubisque. Anyone else?
It kind of hurts his credability with the Tour de France organizers that he was invited then said no, then yes, then no, then yes, etc. And I think it will be especially damaging after all this if he only makes it a couple stages and then drops out. I think if he wants to ever have a chance at riding the Tour de France again he needs to finish the Vuelta, and with good results.
My guess .... Stage 7 on the Col d'Aubisque. Anyone else?
brent_dube
09-04-03, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Can you outsprint him? Can anyone repeatdly outsprint him? Has he proved he has what it takes to be world champion? Seems to me it's pretty special.
Of course I can't outsprint him. What does my sprinting ability have to do with it?
Yeah, he has specialized in sprinting alone, to the point that he can't do anything else. There are plenty of other great sprinters. He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
Can you outsprint him? Can anyone repeatdly outsprint him? Has he proved he has what it takes to be world champion? Seems to me it's pretty special.
Of course I can't outsprint him. What does my sprinting ability have to do with it?
Yeah, he has specialized in sprinting alone, to the point that he can't do anything else. There are plenty of other great sprinters. He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
Ba-Dg-Er
09-04-03, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by brent_dube
Of course I can't outsprint him. What does my sprinting ability have to do with it?
Nothing really, just part of my point. Although he has specialized he is amazingly good at what he has chosen to specialize in. Just like David Millar, the specialist in whining... no one can out whine him.
Yeah, he has specialized in sprinting alone, to the point that he can't do anything else. There are plenty of other great sprinters. He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
His one week grand tour? Last year was a pretty spectacular year for him winning throughout the year in many different venues including a win on the final stage of the Giro. Clearly he has kind of been ... less then spectacular this year, and truly less then spectacular in his ability to finish the longer stage races, but I don't think this should take away from his achievements. He is a truly popular Italian star among Italians and racing fans alike ... he pulls large audiences and that alone is worth it to the race promoters.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
Stage 5 and 6 are relatively flat so I don't see him departing quite that soon, although time trials clearly are not his speciality. I don't see him making it till Stage 14 mainly because of his track record in the mountains when he is in form, and he hasn't raced since the Giro which should make him well out of form. If he is using this as preparation for the Worlds though he might tag along as long as possible to see what, if anything, he can do in the mountains.
Of course I can't outsprint him. What does my sprinting ability have to do with it?
Nothing really, just part of my point. Although he has specialized he is amazingly good at what he has chosen to specialize in. Just like David Millar, the specialist in whining... no one can out whine him.
Yeah, he has specialized in sprinting alone, to the point that he can't do anything else. There are plenty of other great sprinters. He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
His one week grand tour? Last year was a pretty spectacular year for him winning throughout the year in many different venues including a win on the final stage of the Giro. Clearly he has kind of been ... less then spectacular this year, and truly less then spectacular in his ability to finish the longer stage races, but I don't think this should take away from his achievements. He is a truly popular Italian star among Italians and racing fans alike ... he pulls large audiences and that alone is worth it to the race promoters.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
Stage 5 and 6 are relatively flat so I don't see him departing quite that soon, although time trials clearly are not his speciality. I don't see him making it till Stage 14 mainly because of his track record in the mountains when he is in form, and he hasn't raced since the Giro which should make him well out of form. If he is using this as preparation for the Worlds though he might tag along as long as possible to see what, if anything, he can do in the mountains.
brent_dube
09-04-03, 10:01 PM
I guess he may abandon after stage 5. I just don't see why he would bother to race in the TT when he just has mountains to look forward to afterwards. (if he will abandon early, it might as well be after stage 5 ends)
Csson
09-05-03, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by brent_dube
He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
He has won the final stage in the Giro more than once, so he certainly can get through a three week grand tour. It's all about motivation, and unfortunately he has been lacking that in the Tour.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
If he abandons the Vuelta by choice, I guess it will be after stage 5 or 14. The only stages where I see him miss the time cut (if he is in reasonable shape, otherwise he will quit after stage 5) is stages 7, 8 or 9. The other mountain stages does not look hard enough for him to loose too much time; and to finish three hard days in the mountains with a 50 km climb (albeit easy for the first half) in stage 9 could put a lot of sprinters in danger.
/Csson
He knows how to win when he gets to train for his one week grand tour, while the others are in there to last three weeks.
He has won the final stage in the Giro more than once, so he certainly can get through a three week grand tour. It's all about motivation, and unfortunately he has been lacking that in the Tour.
With the set of stages that we have, you wonder if he would just go there for the first 5 stages (a TT and three mountain stages follow it). I figure he will abandon after stage 5, or after stage 14.
If he abandons the Vuelta by choice, I guess it will be after stage 5 or 14. The only stages where I see him miss the time cut (if he is in reasonable shape, otherwise he will quit after stage 5) is stages 7, 8 or 9. The other mountain stages does not look hard enough for him to loose too much time; and to finish three hard days in the mountains with a 50 km climb (albeit easy for the first half) in stage 9 could put a lot of sprinters in danger.
/Csson
Ba-Dg-Er
09-05-03, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Csson
If he abandons the Vuelta by choice, I guess it will be after stage 5 or 14. The only stages where I see him miss the time cut (if he is in reasonable shape, otherwise he will quit after stage 5) is stages 7, 8 or 9. The other mountain stages does not look hard enough for him to loose too much time; and to finish three hard days in the mountains with a 50 km climb (albeit easy for the first half) in stage 9 could put a lot of sprinters in danger.
Stages 7, 8 and 9 will prove tough for him no doubt and since he hasn't raced since the Giro I don't see him being in shape. Aside from that he clearly doesn't want to be in Spain, he is going so that his team has a spot and so unless he gets some newfound motivation in a couple stage wins I just don't see him staying in Spain for any longer then he has to... he certainly isn't going to stay to please the Vuelta organizers.
If he abandons the Vuelta by choice, I guess it will be after stage 5 or 14. The only stages where I see him miss the time cut (if he is in reasonable shape, otherwise he will quit after stage 5) is stages 7, 8 or 9. The other mountain stages does not look hard enough for him to loose too much time; and to finish three hard days in the mountains with a 50 km climb (albeit easy for the first half) in stage 9 could put a lot of sprinters in danger.
Stages 7, 8 and 9 will prove tough for him no doubt and since he hasn't raced since the Giro I don't see him being in shape. Aside from that he clearly doesn't want to be in Spain, he is going so that his team has a spot and so unless he gets some newfound motivation in a couple stage wins I just don't see him staying in Spain for any longer then he has to... he certainly isn't going to stay to please the Vuelta organizers.
Laggard
09-05-03, 09:42 AM
I'd just love to see the organizers pick race routes that have the mountain stages at the beginning of the race. It would go a long ways towards eliminating 3 stage drop out wonders like Cipo.
Walter
09-05-03, 01:16 PM
I
m not sure that "primadonna" is a fair label. A primadonna doesn't usually have any results. Cipo has had a very long (he's 36-37 now) and quite successful career.
Many don't like all the flash which is fair but that doesn't make him a primadonna. Some other things perhaps but not that.
m not sure that "primadonna" is a fair label. A primadonna doesn't usually have any results. Cipo has had a very long (he's 36-37 now) and quite successful career.
Many don't like all the flash which is fair but that doesn't make him a primadonna. Some other things perhaps but not that.
vadimivich
09-05-03, 03:11 PM
I'd just love to see the organizers pick race routes that have the mountain stages at the beginning of the race. It would go a long ways towards eliminating 3 stage drop out wonders like Cipo.
They'd also go a long ways towards elimating any form of drama or interest in the rest of the race. What's the point in a 3 week tour if the race was decided on day #2 when you climbed Angliru?
They'd also go a long ways towards elimating any form of drama or interest in the rest of the race. What's the point in a 3 week tour if the race was decided on day #2 when you climbed Angliru?
Alex33
09-05-03, 05:39 PM
Speaking of primadonnas, guys who don't finish the Vuelta and the Angrilu, anybody care to predict what will be David Millar's main complaint this time?
(sorry it's slightly off topic... I was just checking out the rosters and saw his name, then remembered last year's fiasco when he got off the bike right before the finish line because it was too cold to race)
(sorry it's slightly off topic... I was just checking out the rosters and saw his name, then remembered last year's fiasco when he got off the bike right before the finish line because it was too cold to race)