Utility Cycling - Fixed gear make sense?

My opinion is that fixed-gear bikes have no justification whatsoever outside of a velodrome.
My opinion is that they make sense for anybody who likes them for whatever reason the fixie rider believes; just the same as for anyone who might prefer a unicycle for utility and simplicity. Most of the reasons stated, outside of enjoying them, sound like so much hooey and New Age BS to me. The fitness-stamina rationale presumably could be accomplished by never shifting a mutispeed bike, and even improved by adding a couple of cinder blocks to the cyclists' messenger bag. The simplicity angle? They have nothing on a single speed coaster model, and little on an internal three speed bike, except so called "street cred" for whatever that is worth to those who seek it, and think they get it with such a bike.

Anyways; is it possible to enjoy 'em without trying to BS others (or yourself) about the superior mechanical characteristics/Zen-like experience, or the inadequacies of bikes that are not fixed?;)

Nonsense! In terms of energy expenditure, there is no difference between coasting and just letting your legs go around with the pedals without pushing down on them.

My opinion is that fixed-gear bikes have no justification whatsoever outside of a velodrome.

It's not nonsense - if you ride a fix, you'll find that it IS more tyring to have your legs carried round. The real source of the extra work out is slowing yourself by applying back pressure - more work, but also, more muscle groups.

For ILTB - a fix does have a very small advantage over a single speed with a coaster brake in terms of simplicity, and that's the lack of freewheel. I'm sure you can't believe that a machined cog threaded onto a solid hub is equally as complex as a freewheel. It isn't. In practise, I've never had a situation where that mechanical simplicity was an actual advantage, but that doesn't mean it's not simpler.

It's not nonsense - if you ride a fix, you'll find that it IS more tyring to have your legs carried round. The real source of the extra work out is slowing yourself by applying back pressure - more work, but also, more muscle groups.

For ILTB - a fix does have a very small advantage over a single speed with a coaster brake in terms of simplicity, and that's the lack of freewheel. I'm sure you can't believe that a machined cog threaded onto a solid hub is equally as complex as a freewheel. It isn't. In practise, I've never had a situation where that mechanical simplicity was an actual advantage, but that doesn't mean it's not simpler.

I believe it is a "small advantage"; an infinitesimally small advantage. Almost as good/practical as saving a gram of weight on a utility bike; but if that is what floats the Zen boat for some, swell!

For ILTB - a fix does have a very small advantage over a single speed with a coaster brake in terms of simplicity, and that's the lack of freewheel. I'm sure you can't believe that a machined cog threaded onto a solid hub is equally as complex as a freewheel. It isn't. In practise, I've never had a situation where that mechanical simplicity was an actual advantage, but that doesn't mean it's not simpler.

Coaster brake hubs do not have a freewheel.

ILTB - I have to ask... have you ever ridden a fixed gear for any length of time?

If you have then you might be able to speak to the issue but if not, you are coming from a point of total ignorance.

I ride ss (coaster bikes), three speeds, geared bikes, and a good number of fixed gear bikes so am in a place to make some real world comparisons and can say that a fixed gear is as practical and as utilitarian as any geared bike.

I used to ride SS bikes (not coaster bikes) and found that if you are going to run one gear, a fixed gear is a far better machine as it is more efficient... I look at the rear wheel as being a flywheel that stores energy that really helps to conserve momentum and make a fixed gear a better climber than an equivalently geared ss.

Many of the ss bikes I have built at out shop have become fixed gear bikes as their owners have realized the same thing... these aren't hipsters but hard core commuters riding these bikes and many folks are looking toi build up fixed gear bikes for our Canadian winter as they really shine here.

In other news... I went and did some winter off roading on my "utility" fixie today and it was a blast.

ILTB - I have to ask... have you ever ridden a fixed gear for any length of time?

If you have then you might be able to speak to the issue but if not, you are coming from a point of total ignorance.
Nope I have not had the Zen-like epiphany yet. Nor the bliss that might accompany riding a unicycle or a high wheeler for utility. Haven't even sky dived into work yet either. All those experiences just might be a blast, and their utility is not to be questioned except by those experienced, eh? :rolleyes:

Ignorant? Presumably only those who Are Experienced like yourself are qualified to speak about the alleged deficiencies of inefficient gears and the lack of utility of bikes subject to the threat of a frozen hub, eh? :rolleyes:

Dude, chill. Seriously. I'm certain that you're intelligent enough to convey the same exact thoughts in a less abrasive manner.

Coaster brake hubs do not have a freewheel.

Nor do single speed coaster hubs have the pawls that supposedly are allegedly so likely to freeze that they cause such worry for a few of our comrades.

ILTB - I think that if you are going to be critical about fixed gear bikes then you need to get out and ride one... have that zen like experience (or not)... and then get back to me.

I don't think have ever said geared bikes are inefficient as if they were I would not own seven of them and as far as freewheel hubs freezing up... it happens here a fair deal as we deal with some extremely cold weather.

I'm down at our bike shop where the work of the day for many is freeing up a number of frozen and crudded up front derailleurs... that's something that I don't have to deal with unless I ride my geared winter bike but it only comes out when things are drier and cleaner.

"I look at the rear wheel as being a flywheel that stores energy that really helps to conserve momentum and make a fixed gear a better climber than an equivalently geared ss."

The momentum-conserving properties of a flywheel are dependent on the mass and distribution of mass of the flywheel, and wouldn't vary significantly due to fixity or not. If you want more momentum, you need heavier wheels, which are not noted for increased climbing ability.

Hehehehehe... dear old Stanley (also known as ILTB) cannot help himself. Up to his old tricks. He's been like this since I started joining forums back in the late 1990s.

On this thread, he continually refers to internally gear hubs. Good on you , Stanley, but this discussion was never about internally geared hubs, some of which operate in an oil bath. It was about freewheels and freehubs operating in, I believe, freezing conditions. In North America, that pretty well means, frozen roads, where I have ridden, in temps down to -48 deg C (not Farenheit), and with grit and probably salt on the road.

Now, the issue that I commented on related to someone's comment that a "frozen" freewheel was to do with the grease. I simply stated it was more likely to do with the pawls and spring inside the freewheel; I didn't comment on whether it was to do with temperature or otherwise.

I have seen several cases of freehubs and freewheels give up because of corroson. This can be caused by ingress of water and in the case of winter riding in freezing conditions, can be accelerated rapidly by salt.

In fact, I have just doused a freewheel in water and put it in the freezer, and hey presto -- siezed!. Admittedly, it was pretty old, and didn't have much in the way of lubricant inside, but that's pretty well how most freewheels end up.

Good on you, again, Stanley. You likely have sealed internally geared hubs on your bikes that you use in winter. No issues there for you. But frankly, this was about a fixed gear project and the advantages or otherwise of going fixed gear compared with a normal derailleured bike.

If you wished to make a point, why didn't you just ask: "Why don't you go with an internally geared hub like an old Sturmey Archer or 3sp Shimano? They work well with me". And leave it at that.

As to the "flywheel" discussion, yes, in my experience, there is indeed an effect that helps me keep pedalling uphill with a kind of perpetual motion... and that has to do with getting the right gears and the steepness of the hill. I don't know the physics of it all, and frankly, I'd be bored to tears if someone explained it. Let's put it down to that zen thing that Stanley, in a strictly military sense, has such disdain for.

But someone would only know the sensation if they were to ride a fixed gear; otherwise, they aren't capable of making a salient comment. In fact, I can say that if they haven't ridden a fixed gear at all, they aren't competent to make any worthwhile comment about how they feel and their tangible advantages or disadvantages.

I repeat that this also is an issue about tinkering. It's about learning more about what makes bicycles operate. Which happens to be a very good thing.

PS: Jules, I have had a lot of experience with ILTB, aka <Removed>, on various other forums. Don't sweat it when someone comes up with a fairly good description of him... believe me, it's generous compared with the material Stanley has published about others. The strawman argument this time lies in the internally geared hubs that he introduced and are his primary point of argument.

Rowan, what have we said about publishing people's names on the forums?

Rowan, are you saying because I've never pulled a fully loaded trailer behind a kids tricycle, I cannot approximate the sensibility of that experience? Calling fixie utility is a stretch and if it makes sense depends if the rider wants to put in the extra energy riding a fixie takes (i.e. also has a non-utility agenda like personal fitness). Most everyone else, I'm reasonably sure, are quite content to coast down the next hill after working so hard to get up it, and want some gears to choose from so they don't blow their knees out climbing it, and want standard brakes so they don't waste energy trying to stop (or get injured trying).

Fixie is for fitness, that does not mean an individual cannot use it for utility, but not reccomended in the general case. Is this a hard concept or something?!?

I've got an old Trek MTB that got me to class and work during my college years. Now I'm looking at getting more work out of it as a grocery getter/winter beater and whatnot. With Ames' flat terrain, would it make sense to scrap the gears and convert it to fixed gear/SS? It's got to be better for the winter and alot more efficient not having to drive the chain through a derailer.

Any thoughts?

Is the bike having any problems in the winter (as mentioned in other posts)? If you are hauling a lot of groceries year round, I prefer to have a lower gear just to get me going with a load. As far as converting it over to fixed gear/SS, that's a personal decision one makes for the conditions in your area or just preference. It's like the long running debate over which is better/safer for winter conditions...clips/straps, clipless, or platform pedals...fixed gear/SS, internal-gear hubs, or deraileurs...there just isn't one right answer. There are advantages and disadvantages.

"Calling fixie utility is a stretch and if it makes sense depends if the rider wants to put in the extra energy riding a fixie takes (i.e. also has a non-utility agenda like personal fitness). Most everyone else, I'm reasonably sure, are quite content to coast down the next hill after working so hard to get up it, and want some gears to choose from so they don't blow their knees out climbing it, and want standard brakes so they don't waste energy trying to stop (or get injured trying)."

Did ya see my fixed gear?

It has a brake and will stop on a dime and give change.

It now has two fenders...pretty Fred huh ?

It can haul a lot of stuff in the paniers and on the rear rack.

Does it look like anything any self respecting hipster would ride ?

It's no stretch to call my fixed gear a utility bike as that is what it is.

And again... if you have never ridden a fixed gear then go and take a spin, experience the zen or non zen like experience, and then come back and comment.

The one thing my Kuwie doesn't anymore is pull my trailer...but it did when it has a 4 speed drive.

Rowan, what have we said about publishing people's names on the forums?

I wouldn't have a clue, Brian. Nothing has ever been directed to me, except PMs of invective by the individual concerned. The individual is well known on various forums outside this one. It is a matter of public record. I have referenced him NUMEROUS times by both his names in an extensive number of posts.

My name is what it is... my name. As yours is. And for a change, instead of someone hiding behind an anonymous personna to insult other people because of his cry-baby reaction to no-one accepting his proposition about internal hubs in a FIXED GEAR thread, he's been exposed. Nothing wrong in that in my opinion. Makes the insulting and call-out far more personable.

Rowan, are you saying because I've never pulled a fully loaded trailer behind a kids tricycle, I cannot approximate the sensibility of that experience? Calling fixie utility is a stretch and if it makes sense depends if the rider wants to put in the extra energy riding a fixie takes (i.e. also has a non-utility agenda like personal fitness). Most everyone else, I'm reasonably sure, are quite content to coast down the next hill after working so hard to get up it, and want some gears to choose from so they don't blow their knees out climbing it, and want standard brakes so they don't waste energy trying to stop (or get injured trying).

Fixie is for fitness, that does not mean an individual cannot use it for utility, but not reccomended in the general case. Is this a hard concept or something?!?

Absolutely on your first question. Unless you have, then you don't know what it might be like. You can try to put your own collective experiences together to try to imagine what it's like. But until you actually do ride a kid's trike iwth a fully-loaded trailer (whatever that is supposed to mean), then that's all it is... your imagination at work.

Most people can coast downhill to their heart's content. I don't care. They are free to do what they like. For the record, coasting downhill after a hard climb is not really the best thing; ghost pedalling will help clear the lactic acid from the muscles and avoid cramping. But obviously there is no place for physiology in utility cycling.

And another for the record (having just returned from my 50km round-trip shopping expedition on my fixed gear), my bike is street legal because it is fitted with not one (as required) but two brakes. Don't brand everyone who rides fixed gear with the same reactionary tarbrush you apparently like to wield in suggesting we all ride without brakes and use our legs to stop.

And another for the record... my knees are in superb knick, despite (a) the fact I ride fixed a fair bit, (b) I ride a lot of hills and (c) I ride loaded for touring and utility purposes.

And just who is or is not entitled to make recommendations on whether someone can use a fixie for utility purposes. No-one said I could or couldn't ride a fixed gear; I make my own decisions, thank you. And I am sure the OP will, even if he tries it just as something to to make him competent to make comment and to satisfy his mechanical bent.

Just as an aside, there is another issue not related to "frozen" freewheels, and that's cabling. In winter, it does become an issue as it becomes clogged with ice and gunge (of course, if you ride in those conditions). And back on freewheels, the viscosity of the oil used to lubricate the bearings and pawls inside it does become an issue in temperatures well below freezing... as does the viscosity of the oil used on the chain that can affect shifting performance. THIS comes from someone who lives and rides in conditions down to -40 deg C. So a fixed gear can go some way to mitigating some of these issues.

Like your style, Sixty-Fiver! Just goes to show... utility doesn't mean you have to be feral.

Rowan, are you saying because I've never pulled a fully loaded trailer behind a kids tricycle, I cannot approximate the sensibility of that experience?


Absolutely on your first question.

That's all I need to know. Thanks.

I never thought a simple question could ignite such a firestorm. For plain-sensible people, you sure are emotional.

cydisc - If you build yourself an ss or fixed gear you will have to get used to people making baseless comments about what you can or can't do on your bike.

Just do what makes you a happy rider.

Speaking of baseless, fixie is not the keeper of zen. Or all fixie discussions should be in the "politics and religion" forum maybe? ;)

Anyway, fixie isn't for everyone/everything and there is cost if you are going to convert. Anyone telling you that your brain is so inferior that you just have to do the conversion first to understand the pros and cons is just insulting you. If you rode a big wheel once in your life, you rode fixie. If you pay a bunch of money for a conversion, you may suffer the same cognitive dissonance as these nice gentlemen here ("I paid a bunch 'o money, this must be great!"), LOL :)

I wouldn't have a clue, Brian.
Nuff said. Outside of some apparent perverse pleasure in gratuitous name calling and using personal names for the benefit of other clueless posters to use in future psycho babbling or some other clueless manner.

I never thought a simple question could ignite such a firestorm. For plain-sensible people, you sure are emotional.

The cultists are not discussing utility or good sense. The same paean of praise for their fixation can be found on other lists too. Also the same passionate and irrational attacks on those skeptical of their claims.

I never thought a simple question could ignite such a firestorm. For plain-sensible people, you sure are emotional.

You'd think this was LCF.

You'd think this was LCF.

Well it is a spin off;) (but is it fixed or freewheeling:D)

Aaron:)

You'd think this was LCF.

You can take utility cycling out of the LCF list, but obviously have not taken away the embrace/claimed "ownership" of utility cycling by the more emotional LCF (and other fixated) ranters.

Interestingly, the only person to mention Zen, or connectedness with the bike, in this thread is ILTB. One of the problems of BF is that ILTB ascribes opinions and behaviours he sees from some posters to everyone who likes the same sort of bike. Therefore everyone who likes road bikes is lycra-fixated and thinks that anyone on a three speed is not a proper cyclist, for instance, or anyone who likes disc brakes must ride dangerously fast. It's important to note that ILTB isn't just anti-fixie, he's also anti derailleurs, anti drop bars, anti hand operated brakes. In fact, anti anything that's not an internal geared hub, laid back geometry, and north road bars. I like my fixed gear, but I've never suggested that there's a "zen of fixed gear", or anything like that. I've even debunked some of the myths. What I say is, it's fun, you should try it. I also think that tight geometry road bikes with drop bars are fun, and that tourers with drop bars are comfortable, and 3 speeds with north roads are fun, and folders are fun. You should try everything, then you'll know.

Actually I believe that ILTB doesn't even own any bikes and is just trolling around;):p I ride a fixed on occasion, I rode fixed way back in the 70's when I was racing, as a training aid. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every type of bike. You could probably use any one type of bike for every situation...whether it would be/is suitable is a debatable point.

Aaron:)

If you pay a bunch of money for a conversion, you may suffer the same cognitive dissonance as these nice gentlemen here ("I paid a bunch 'o money, this must be great!"), LOL

I paid $25.00 for my Kuwahara and like all my bikes, the conversion / build was done with recycled parts and I did all the work... I don't buy into the flavour of the day mentality and would never pay what some folks do for shiny parts.

"The cultists are not discussing utility or good sense. The same paean of praise for their fixation can be found on other lists too. Also the same passionate and irrational attacks on those skeptical of their claims."

I think the discussion has been all about whether or not a fixed gear can be used as a utility bike and that I have provided some solid evidence that it can be done... I expect to log nearly 5000 miles between now and May on my fixed utility bike as it really is the most practical and utilitarian vehicle I have for winter.

"You should try everything, then you'll know."

I'm working on that.

I think the discussion has been all about whether or not a fixed gear can be used as a utility bike and that I have provided some solid evidence that it can be done...
Of course it can be done. The reasons offered appear to have little to do with utility or practicality.

Of course it can be done. The reasons offered appear to have little to do with utility or practicality.

So tell me why on earth I choose to ride such an impractical bike ?

Really... enlighten me.

So tell me why on earth I choose to ride such an impractical bike ?

Really... enlighten me.

People do all kinda perverse stuff for pleasure, pain or both.; lot of it doesn't make any sense at all except to those who get their kicks that way. How/why you get yours? How da heck should I know?

People do all kinda perverse stuff for pleasure, pain or both.; lot of it doesn't make any sense at all except to those who get their kicks that way. How/why you get yours? How da heck should I know?

So basically...you got nothing.

I never thought a simple question could ignite such a firestorm. For plain-sensible people, you sure are emotional.

Is the MTB you're thinking about converting your only bike? If it is, try to borrow a FG from a friend for a good long trial period. If you do have other bikes, go ahead and convert the MTB and see how you like it.

Obviously this is a matter of personal preference. There are no right or wrong answers.

My personal opinion is that I wouldn't use a fixie in winter around here, although that may or may not be relevant depending on where you live. Even riding through 2-3 inches of snow that get put down over the pathways and roads overnight is not fun to ride through without being able to shift gear ratios. Its not outright difficult of course, but it does get tiring if you're riding in it for a while.

I would think that if you were needing to do the work on the bike anyways, why not go for something cheap and simple like a 3 speed internal? It would be fairly inexpensive, but give you more cadence control on the snow and have the same low maintenance.

So basically...you got nothing.

?? I got nothing to answer your weird request to explain away YOUR preference for impractical bikes? I'm not your shrink; but feel free to think you sure told me off, as well as explained just how sensible fixed gear bikes are for utility cycling.

The fitness-stamina rationale presumably could be accomplished by never shifting a mutispeed bike, and even improved by adding a couple of cinder blocks to the cyclists' messenger bag.
You clearly do not understand the point of training on a fixed-gear bike - it's all about the stroke. Riding on a fixed gear bike (with proper gearing) forces you to develop a smooth, controlled, circular stroke that later will transfer well to geared riding.

I own a track-bike (among a few other) and have to admit that riding on track is a major, major training aid.

PS. I did see someone argue that "on track, they do not allow geared bikes because they do not want people to accelerate too fast". Have you ever actually see a good track sprinter and how they accelerate?

?? I got nothing to answer your weird request to explain away YOUR preference for impractical bikes? I'm not your shrink; but feel free to think you sure told me off, as well as explained just how sensible fixed gear bikes are for utility cycling.

It's not a weird question when you realize that I give answers and examples and you just keep calling my ride impractical with no experience with which to base your answers.

So what do you ride ?

If it's not a recumbent or a unicycle I am probably in a place to make informed comments.

After you go and spend some time riding a fixed gear in a utilitarian or non utilitarian manner than you will be in a place to make informed comments too.

You clearly do not understand the point of training on a fixed-gear bike - it's all about the stroke. Riding on a fixed gear bike (with proper gearing) forces you to develop a smooth, controlled, circular stroke that later will transfer well to geared riding.

I own a track-bike (among a few other) and have to admit that riding on track is a major, major training aid.

PS. I did see someone argue that "on track, they do not allow geared bikes because they do not want people to accelerate too fast". Have you ever actually see a good track sprinter and how they accelerate?

I guess where you come from all that "stuff" about the stroke[/I,] about needing a fixed gear to develop a [I]smooth, controlled, circular stroke and major, major training aid has something to do with utility cycling.

I guess where you come from all that "stuff" about the stroke[/I,] about needing a fixed gear to develop a [I]smooth, controlled, circular stroke and major, major training aid has something to do with utility cycling.
I was replying to specific point that you were making about fitness value of riding fixed gear bikes. However, I feel your pain :D and will give you my two basis points on the utility value of fixed-gear bikes.

Utility biking is vast - one could imagine applications where a fixed gear bike might make sense. While you would not want a fixed-gear bike for delivering pizza, you might like one for riding as a messenger in Manhattan. Ability to track-stand with ease at the lights, simplicity in terms of repair and low(er) theft probabiity would be the reasons.

As per utility...

It's -19 C / -30 with the wind chill and snowing and I'm just heading out to do my Sunday night grocery shopping on my Kuwahara.

The fixed gear will offer some great control on what will be sketchy roads and I am in the kind of shape where carrying an extra 40 pounds doesn't really slow me down... the touring geometry on the bike really makes for a stable bike when the paniers are stuffed.

Why is ILTB still a member on BF? Apparently he hates everyone here and probably had never even ridden a bike. For all I know he is just the kid who tryed to do things that the other kids where doing, but still never fit in. So he got jeleous of what the other kids where doing and it bothered him and he hid that botheredness with anger towards the kids who where getting enjoyment from said activity. Now he is grown up (age wise anyways :rolleyes: ) and somehow didnt feel like he fit in with the "cyclist" group even though he got a bike so he is now taking his anger out on the people who are actually getting enjoyment out of the bikes.

Anyone else agree with my diagnosis?

Why is ILTB still a member on BF? Apparently he hates everyone here and probably had never even ridden a bike. For all I know he is just the kid who tryed to do things that the other kids where doing, but still never fit in. So he got jeleous of what the other kids where doing and it bothered him and he hid that botheredness with anger towards the kids who where getting enjoyment from said activity. Now he is grown up (age wise anyways :rolleyes: ) and somehow didnt feel like he fit in with the "cyclist" group even though he got a bike so he is now taking his anger out on the people who are actually getting enjoyment out of the bikes.

Anyone else agree with my diagnosis?
Another "utility" Freud wannabe pipes in to join the M%M jokers who posted similar idiotic psycho babble on this thread. Is being a whining crystal ball gazer part of being an LCF escapee, fixed gear devotee, or what? Or just being a cry baby who heard words that displeased him?

I was replying to specific point that you were making about fitness value of riding fixed gear bikes. However, I feel your pain :D and will give you my two basis points on the utility value of fixed-gear bikes.

Utility biking is vast - one could imagine applications where a fixed gear bike might make sense. While you would not want a fixed-gear bike for delivering pizza, you might like one for riding as a messenger in Manhattan. Ability to track-stand with ease at the lights, simplicity in terms of repair and low(er) theft probabiity would be the reasons.

I can believe the lower theft probability. For the obvious reasons.

The other two features?

Trackstanding? So what?
Simplicity? Maybe so compared to a suspension derailler bike, probably not a bit compared to a S/S coaster model.

Maybe I misunderstood. Do "utility cyclists" wrap their axles around the needs of those who deliver groceries for a living and require messenger chic?

I am not whining because something displeased me. I am just tired of seeing another good thread get thrown off track and turned into a fight by some whining ***** old man like yourself coming in here and starting crap again.

But I guess in Iowa, that is about all there is to do huh? Either fight on the internet or have sex with sheep. I guess now I see why you chose to fight on the internet.

Anyone else agree with my diagnosis?

Ignore list works:( I have no idea what he says:)

There's a post over in the fixie forum that is pretty interesting in relation to the above items:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=367201

What is interesting to me is the range of opinions expressed by fixie users. Some say they go up hills faster, some slower, some not at all. Some say it slows them going down hills, one says it speeds him up. No talk of perpetual motion and zen propelling them up the hills, though.

(In one of the posts, it is mentioned that with a single speed, you go up hills faster because you have to...and that's something I've found on my single speed as well. It might be easier and less tiring to downshift and go up slower, but that's no longer an option. I passed a fair number of people on hills a while back doing that.)