Utility Cycling - Fixed gear make sense?

I've got an old Trek MTB that got me to class and work during my college years. Now I'm looking at getting more work out of it as a grocery getter/winter beater and whatnot. With Ames' flat terrain, would it make sense to scrap the gears and convert it to fixed gear/SS? It's got to be better for the winter and alot more efficient not having to drive the chain through a derailer.

Any thoughts?

well its flat here too and the winters are mild so no advice on that but the wind can be a pain if you chose the wrong gearing......i have a few ss and i chose gears for my utility bike........ya might do fine on the way to the store but after a load it might be a different story

if it has horozontal drop outs then you can just do a quick ss convert that can always be reversed for the summer.....unless you like it then you can leave it ss .....id wait to go thru the trouble of making it a fixed only to find out its not what you want............or get a different rim and leave the rim you have alone

if you got a flip flop with a fixed on one side and a ss on the other between the 2 rims you'd have 3 setups

Well it all depends on if your bike has horizontal drops or not, and what kind of gearing you want to run. I ride all winter on a ss mountain bike, but have been having trouble getting the gearing right. 22T up front 15 in the back works fine, but I spin too much. 14 or 13 teeth in the back and I cannot get chain length right even with a chain tensioner. Alright well that is enough of my problem. If you can get the chain tension and gearing right, I say go for it.

It's got vertical drops, so I'd have to build a new rear wheel with an eccentric hub. Which is fine, because part of this is about tinkering anyway.

Personally, I've never seen the point to a fixed-gear bike, other than track racing.

I was riding a multi-speed mountain bike for a while, and am now riding a single-speed coaster-brake bike. I never really gave much thought to how the single speed works. If you're going uphill or into the wind, you can't downshift, and slowing down doesn't really help a lot. So you don't have much choice but to put some extra oomph into it and go anyway. On the other hand, if you're riding at higher speeds, and not going into the wind or uphill, the pedaling is easier and faster than what's comfortable to maintain. The solution is to pedal hard and fast briefly, then coast, then repeat. Riding a fixed gear bike would actually slow me down in that case, as I couldn't comfortably pedal that fast continuously. Or if the bike was geared really high, it'd be great under those conditions and just a killer in the headwind or up the slightest hill.

Personally, I've never seen the point to a fixed-gear bike, other than track racing....
I second that.

Fixies do not make sense for anything other than velodromes, where you have a lot of people riding in tight formation on a small track and you precisely don't want people to have the ability to change speed very quickly (faster OR slower!).

The current fad is a flock of sheeple wannabees assuming that "anything that's good for elite racing must be better for everything else too".
~

The current fad is a flock of sheeple wannabees assuming that "anything that's good for elite racing must be better for everything else too".
Do you seriously believe that everyone riding fixed or single speed on the street does it because it's a fad, and not because they like riding that way?

I overhauled and converted an old steel road bike into a single speed commuter for the winter. I wanted to try one gear without the expense or learning curve of fixed riding, and hopefully get some training out of it. I actually geared it a bit higher than my normal cruising gear on my hybrid, so it cruises fast and beautifully. Uphill, there are no questions, I just buckle down and mash. And I can't properly explain it but this bike climbs so much better than my hybrid. So don't worry about problems inherent to SS.

I don't know about fixed/SS for winter hauling, though. Adding changes in snow cover and load might make things really hard half the time.

Do you seriously believe that everyone riding fixed or single speed on the street does it because it's a fad, and not because they like riding that way?

+1 ........some people just never get it. :)

If I'm not mistaken, in the history of bicycling, the Fixie came first (maybe not called that) and then coaster-capable bikes came later. Single-speed bikes came first, and then multi-speed bikes came later. And similarly, brakeless bikes came first and then bikes with brakes came later. So when a principle has formerly been used and then died off and now becomes popular again, that sure sounds like a fad to me. A bike fad happens precisely because people DO like riding that way, not because they dislike it and do it anyway. But wait 30 years, and they'll like to ride some other way and fixies will be as popular then as banana seats are now. Maybe the penny-farthing will be the latest thing then (with a new and catchy name of course) and anybody riding a fixie will just be some old geezer that doesn't get it.

The original question was if a fixie "made sense" for a certain application. Depending on his personal preference, just about any bike in the world could be used there, and a great many of them would work just fine, and if he wants to ride a fixie, more power to him. But to say that a bike lacking brakes makes more sense than the same bike with brakes, or that one lacking other capabilities makes more sense than ones with those capabilities seems a bit of a reach.

I've got an old Trek MTB that got me to class and work during my college years. Now I'm looking at getting more work out of it as a grocery getter/winter beater and whatnot. With Ames' flat terrain, would it make sense to scrap the gears and convert it to fixed gear/SS? It's got to be better for the winter and alot more efficient not having to drive the chain through a derailer.

Any thoughts?

Why not just keep your current bike in one prefered gear and don't shift it?

If that gear turns out to not be right: shift it to another! Who wudda thunk it?

FWIW, here's an interesting on-going discussion regarding the fixie fad:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1301503#post1301503

Why not just keep your current bike in one prefered gear and don't shift it?

If that gear turns out to not be right: shift it to another! Who wudda thunk it?

What attracted me to FG/SS is that the extra cogs and chainrings and extra length of chain you have with geared bikes adds weight. Plus, a straight chain line is more efficient than running chain through derailers. Plus, it's a lot less stuff to clean and maintain.

I don't think running fixed is a fad. There are practical reasons for it.

i do believe the op was asking if a ss/fixed was better in the snow due to less moving parts and less to break or cause problems .......like snow building up on the derailer or ice or salt.......and he never said he wasnt gunna have brakes......it was a simple drivetrain question

You could go for a hub gear. They have the advantage over derailleurs in that they are enclosed and you don't get gunk in the shifters. In flat Ames, a three-speed would probably be OK, but they do make hub gears in five-, seven-, and eight-speeds, too.

What attracted me to FG/SS is that the extra cogs and chainrings and extra length of chain you have with geared bikes adds weight. Plus, a straight chain line is more efficient than running chain through derailers. Plus, it's a lot less stuff to clean and maintain.

I don't think running fixed is a fad. There are practical reasons for it.

Weight? Efficiency? Do you really think it will make a difference in flat Ames? Clean/Maintain? Clean what, if you don't intend to shift?

My suggestion for simplicity - find a single speed, coaster brake 26" wheel on any old cruiser bike of the past and stick that on your bike. Better yet keep that wheel on the old cruiser and use the cruiser. No fuss, no muss.

Complete used bike should be available at thrift stores or garage sales for under $20.

There are some minor benefits to a fix. The first is that in the ice and slush your derailleurs can get stuck, but no real problem there, just don't shift, and it'll be like a single speed anyway. There's the aforementioned issue of weight, but really, in a winter beater MTB, the ounces you'll save aren't going to mean a lot. The only real benefit is this - in extreme weather conditions, your freewheel pawls can freeze up so your cranks just spin, and THAT's a bummer, specially since it's the last type of weather where you want to push, or sit waiting for a lift. I know that this happens, because people report it from time to time on BF, but how often it really happens, I wouldn't venture to guess.

The big reason that most people ride fixed is cos they either like how it feels, and/or want the extra workout. There is a viewpoint that says that fixed is the best way to brake the rear wheel in the slippery conditions, because you really feel what's going on back there, but having no experience, I'm not qualified to comment on that.

A bike fad happens precisely because people DO like riding that way, not because they dislike it and do it anyway.
This makes sense, but it conflicts with the line I was responding to.


What attracted me to FG/SS is that the extra cogs and chainrings and extra length of chain you have with geared bikes adds weight. Plus, a straight chain line is more efficient than running chain through derailers. Plus, it's a lot less stuff to clean and maintain.
A pack full of groceries adds weight too. And being able to pick your cadence is more efficient than being stuck in one gear.

The answer might depend on what other options you have. If you have another way to carry thirty pounds of food in two inches of snow, build the fixie and have fun. If this is going to be your one winter bike, clean or maybe upgrade the drivetrain, and keep your eyes open for a cheap road frame to convert.


Complete used bike should be available at thrift stores or garage sales for under $20.
Depends on the city and your luck. Around here, every old rusted hi-ten road frame seems to go for at least $50.

Almost all the benefits of a fixed gear are shared by a single speed. The only practical benefits you lose by going single speed instead of fixed is the ability to trackstand and the ability to ride brakeless. However, in my opinion, the ability to coast is worth far more than trackstanding and brakeless stopping.

That being said, I recommend going single speed. It's a lot more efficient, a lot lighter, a lot more durable, and a lot cheaper than having gears (derailleur or otherwise).

The only practical benefits you lose by going single speed instead of fixed is the ability to trackstand...

How cool would that be? Trackstand with a basket-load of groceries? I would rule.

How cool would that be? Trackstand with a basket-load of groceries? I would rule.

Although trackstanding can be useful when trying to merge into fast moving traffic from a standstill, coolness is not a utilitarian virtue. :)

You can trackstand on any bike - just hold the brakes. You just can't rock back and forth by pedaling backwards. Trackstands aren't THAT cool - riding backwards on a fixie, now THAT is cool.

Fixie takes the most energy, that is the worst choice for utility. You want to use that energy to go farther and/or carry more stuff. If you have the energy to do all your chores on a fixie though, and are geeky about it, go for it.

cydisc, go for it.

I ride a fixed gear. It's the third one I have built, and I started with them before the current fad took hold. I live in much steeper country than you, and I use mine for a 50km return trip every Sunday to do my weekly shopping. Given that I live by myself, a week's worth of goceries come in between 12 and 20kg. There is a difference between the unloaded and loaded bike going up the hills, but it's not something that bothers me. If you are riding in flat country all the time, you would have no worries.

And to those who cannot comprehend what is written, this is as much about tinkering, is it not cydisc? I find it amazing that people can deliver such scathing negative comments on something they haven't tried in a sustained way. It can be satisfying to strip a bike back to its most basic form, and to come to terms with it as a rider. Riding a fixed is somewhat different to riding a single, and different (obviously) to riding a geared bike. They all have their merits. But only by riding each, is it possible to deliver a verdict.

There are additional benefits to riding a fixed (and to a degree an SS). Longevity of the drivetrain because the chain is not having to contort to various angles; the removal of a dirt and snow/ice attracting devices in the form of the derailleurs; and the lack of clutter elsewhere on the frame. Oh yes, there is also the lighter weight and the slight increase in efficiency. And you certainly don't have to make any decisions on gears.

There are some challenges to riding a fixed. You don't have the ability to back-pedal the cranks to get a good push-down on take-off. You either have to go with the position it's in, or (if loaded) move the bike forward until the crank is in the best position. Front-wheel overlap can add to the challenges!! And be careful if you use cranks over 175mm long... although the BB height on an MTB should present you no worries when cornering.

Yeah! Go for it. The worst you could do is spend some dollars on three or four cheap track cogs and suitable chain, and if you don't like what you have set up, you still have the bits to put back on the bike to make it into a geared one again... or slip on a BMX single-speed unit (which can come is a pretty wide number of teeth options).

The only practical benefits you lose by going single speed instead of fixed is the ability to trackstand and the ability to ride brakeless.

And the ability not to have your freewheel freeze, stranding you at the side of the road. It might not happen all the time, but it DOES happen!

Here, there is a new design that will fix THAT problem ;) :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Draisine1817.jpg

w00t! Zen oneness with the bike? That thing will give you oneness with the very road surface.....

And the ability not to have your freewheel freeze, stranding you at the side of the road. It might not happen all the time, but it DOES happen!

That's silly. I'm sure the bearings in the headset can also freeze, but I don't see anyone advocating bikes without headsets.

The risk of a frozen free wheel is overwhelmingly worthwhile and even if it weren't, there are lots of other disposable bike parts which pose a much greater risk of failure. If your going to remove your freewheel for durability reasons then the only rational course of action is to stop using pneumatic tires, roller chains, and spoked wheels first.

It's not so much the bearings seizing, but the pawls and springs inside the freewheel/hub.

[..]The risk of a frozen free wheel is overwhelmingly worthwhile and even if it weren't, there are lots of other disposable bike parts which pose a much greater risk of failure. If your going to remove your freewheel for durability reasons then the only rational course of action is to stop using pneumatic tires, roller chains, and spoked wheels first.

Sorry, but I have to agree with sammyboy here. I've had more issues with frozen freewheels then with roller chains and spoke wheels combined. And solid tires suck.

A coaster brake would not fail in such a manner, and would provide more utility than fixie. When carrying a load, you want brakes.

Edit: Some people have also used low temp lube in there freewheel.

A coaster brake would not fail in such a manner, and would provide more utility than fixie. When carrying a load, you want brakes.

Edit: Some people have also used low temp lube in there freewheel.

I have ridden my SA S5 hub at temperatures as low as -15°F, and my Sachs Torpedo 3 speed and SRAM 7 speed hubs at -10°F for several winters and NEVER had a freezing problem except for my own toes and fingers. Maybe in the Arctic, Alaska, or on Planet Internet freezing pawls are more of a problem.

Sorry, but I have to agree with sammyboy here. I've had more issues with frozen freewheels then with roller chains and spoke wheels combined. And solid tires suck.

I'll take your word on the spokes, but I seriously doubt it about the roller chains. If you paid the same attention to your freewheel that you did to your chain then I doubt you would have as many problems.

Also, I don't see why solid tires suck anymore than not being able to coast.


BTW, when your freewheel freezes isn't the coasting the only thing that stops working? In other words, you're no worse off then if you had a fixie.

BTW, when your freewheel freezes isn't the coasting the only thing that stops working? In other words, you're no worse off then if you had a fixie.

The failure mode i've heard (but admittedly not experienced) is the other way around, prawls don't engage cog so you 'freewheel' pedaling forwards and backwards...

BTW, when your freewheel freezes isn't the coasting the only thing that stops working? In other words, you're no worse off then if you had a fixie.
It's possible, but the most likely scenario is no drive at all.

And just what attention should be paid to freewheels just as much as chains, pray tell. I am seriously interested in your maintenance program here.

As to the other person who made some allusion to Planet Internet, maybe he should apply his sneering comments to the poster whose claim was about freezing bearings.

It's possible, but the most likely scenario is no drive at all.

And just what attention should be paid to freewheels just as much as chains, pray tell. I am seriously interested in your maintenance program here.

As to the other person who made some allusion to Planet Internet, maybe he should apply his sneering comments to the poster whose claim was about freezing bearings.

How likely is this scenario of frozen pawls? Who has actually experienced it on this planet with a normal bike with an internal gear hub (not some home brew Frankenbike) and at what temperature? Was it a temperature where many/any cyclists are likely to be cycling?

It's possible, but the most likely scenario is no drive at all.

And just what attention should be paid to freewheels just as much as chains, pray tell. I am seriously interested in your maintenance program here.

I have never had a freewheel freeze, but if I did I imagine that replacing it with a quality part every time you replace the chain and lubing with a mixture of lube/antifreeze every time you lube the chain would do the trick. Maybe I'm wrong, but even so, I seriously doubt that anyone has had as many freewheel failures as pneumatic tire failures, yet people keep using pneumatic tires.


As to the other person who made some allusion to Planet Internet, maybe he should apply his sneering comments to the poster whose claim was about freezing bearings.

I can only assume "the other person" to which your referring is I-Like-To-Bike. I recommend you simply ignore him. The only thing he ever contributes to this forum are illustrations of his own hubris, bitterness, and ignorance. He has absolutely nothing of value to say and he himself admits that he is way too proud to ever learn anything from anyone who he considers below him (which is everyone).

If you read his posts for a while I think you'll agree that they consist solely of vague and nonsensical personal attacks based on his fantastical and ridiculous assumption that anyone who says anything which isn't immediately obvious to his naive and arbitrary preconceptions must be an ideologue, a hypocrite, and raving lunatic. Any reasonable individual tries to clarify the inherent ambiguity of any conversation, but I-Like-To-Bike never tries to clarify anything (after all, that would require him to come down from his high horse and ask a question as opposed to lecturing the rest of us and hurling insults at anyone who dare speak). Instead, he takes the inherent ambiguity of conversation as an opportunity to project imaginary straw men onto other posters and attacks those straw men with vague allusions to the posters which he has assigned them to. As best I can tell, the purpose of doing this to enhance his hubris by putting down others, while simultaneously avoiding refutation by being as vague as possible (after all, how can anyone deny his slanderous insults when he never makes clear exactly who he is insulting?).

In short, I-Like-To-Bike is a real piece of work and I think you'll eventually find that reading his posts isn't worth your time. At least that's my conclusion.

^^^+1

How likely is this scenario of frozen pawls? Who has actually experienced it on this planet with a normal bike with an internal gear hub (not some home brew Frankenbike) and at what temperature? Was it a temperature where many/any cyclists are likely to be cycling?

I read a story of a freewheel freeze in the commuting forum last week, so it's happened in the last 2 weeks in North America. I don't think it was an internal gear hub, but I don't know whether you'd call it a "home brew frankenbike". I don't see why a freewheel that a person puts on in their living room would be any more likely to freeze than one put on at an LBS or a factory. I think I was pretty clear that it's not by any means a common occurrence that I know of. Some people ride fixed gears because of reasons like this, but I think they're mostly pretty bogus. I ride mine (not all the time, or even the majority of the time - I'm no purist) because I find it fun. If I was going to build a specific snow bike, I'd probably build it fixed, because I know that freezing can happen, but also because hey, it'd be fun! I can't give you any really solid justification why a fixed gear is good, but that's ok, I don't need one. I like it, it's fun. You can do what you like, and I won't mind - I'll ride fixed, when I feel like it.

Here's the link

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=364571

Two people in that thread with personal experience, one that very day, and one other who had helped two individuals with frozen freewheels. I doubt it ever gets cold enough here.

I read a story of a freewheel freeze in the commuting forum last week, so it's happened in the last 2 weeks in North America. I don't think it was an internal gear hub, but I don't know whether you'd call it a "home brew frankenbike". I don't see why a freewheel that a person puts on in their living room would be any more likely to freeze than one put on at an LBS or a factory.

Because the frozen hub may have nothing to do with the ambient temperature and might be caused by improper assembly (especially grease seals allowing water entry into the mechanism), lost/misassembled springs or wrong lubricant, etc.

The referenced post about a freewheel that gave up at 20F really seems to be an aberration and I suspect had little if anything to do with that relatively mild temperature and more likely something mechanically wrong with the hub. In any case, one or two bikes out of millions that may have exhibited this problem hardly seems a sensible reason in itself to ditch gears and coasting as a prophylactic measure.

I can only assume "the other person" to which your referring is I-Like-To-Bike. I recommend you simply ignore him. The only thing he ever contributes to this forum are illustrations of his own hubris, bitterness, and ignorance. He has absolutely nothing of value to say and he himself admits that he is way too proud to ever learn anything from anyone who he considers below him (which is everyone).

If you read his posts for a while I think you'll agree that they consist solely of vague and nonsensical personal attacks based on his fantastical and ridiculous assumption that anyone who says anything which isn't immediately obvious to his naive and arbitrary preconceptions must be an ideologue, a hypocrite, and raving lunatic. Any reasonable individual tries to clarify the inherent ambiguity of any conversation, but I-Like-To-Bike never tries to clarify anything (after all, that would require him to come down from his high horse and ask a question as opposed to lecturing the rest of us and hurling insults at anyone who dare speak). Instead, he takes the inherent ambiguity of conversation as an opportunity to project imaginary straw men onto other posters and attacks those straw men with vague allusions to the posters which he has assigned them to. As best I can tell, the purpose of doing this to enhance his hubris by putting down others, while simultaneously avoiding refutation by being as vague as possible (after all, how can anyone deny his slanderous insults when he never makes clear exactly who he is insulting?).

In short, I-Like-To-Bike is a real piece of work and I think you'll eventually find that reading his posts isn't worth your time. At least that's my conclusion.

That's an impressive dissertation, except for the "slander" bit. You're either a psychiatrist, which is how you were able to assess him so accurately, or you've got some experience with raving lunacy yourself.

Which is it?

Because the frozen hub may have nothing to do with the ambient temperature and might be caused by improper assembly (especially grease seals allowing water entry into the mechanism), lost/misassembled springs or wrong lubricant, etc.

The referenced post about a freewheel that gave up at 20F really seems to be an aberration and I suspect had little if anything to do with that relatively mild temperature and more likely something mechanically wrong with the hub. In any case, one or two bikes out of millions that may have exhibited this problem hardly seems a sensible reason in itself to ditch gears and coasting as a prophylactic measure.

If, and only if, you actually read my posts, you'll see that I'm not actually suggesting that. It's a tiny, if extant, advantage. I gave my reasons for the time I spend riding fixed - I like it. It's that simple.

All I have to ask is, What's wrong with gears? They never bothered me.

That's an impressive dissertation, except for the "slander" bit. You're either a psychiatrist, which is how you were able to assess him so accurately, or you've got some experience with raving lunacy yourself.

Which is it?

Read his posts and the answer is obvious. Maddyfish too. Loony Tune City!:eek: It is no disgrace to be dissed by such losers.

So, anyway, does it make sense to ride a fixed gear utility bike?

Only for a fixie fanatic ;)

This appears to be a utility bike... and if you look closely you'll see there in no freewheel or coaster brake.

http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/biking/kuwie2007a.jpg

This is my '87 Kuwahara Cascade that has been converted to a fixed gear and besides serving as my winter bike it also gets used through the year for pretty much everything from commuting, riding the trails, and it is the bike that does most of my shopping.

The gearing is a 38:16 so it does lack the top speed of my summer commuter (also fixed) but still cruises pretty nicely at 16 - 18 mph.

Climbing hills and running into the wind are not issues for me and it stops as well as any bike I own and far better than my old coaster bikes.

It is probably one of the nicest bikes I own and as far as winter riding goes, there is nothing better for my winter riding than a fixed gear.

I am always hearing folks tell me how fixed gears are great except that they don't climb well or run into the wind... my thought is that these folks have never ridden a fixed gear and it must be very humbling to be passed by a bike that won't climb.

One important thing to note is that it takes some time to get in the kind of shape you need to be in to ride a fixed gear... that whole lack of coasting is what requires more energy and stamina and not because a fixed gear is less efficient as it doesn't get much better.

Right on Sixty Fiver!

My Giant is now sporting front and rear racks w/ crates and is getting a cog and lockring within the next week. It has been a SS trail bike since 1996 and is now used for utility/bar runs around B-burg. With a new flip-flop hub, I figure why not go fixed? I am gearing it slightly lower than my other fixed mtbs to compensate for loaded (and post bar cameo) rides, it should be a blast.

I don't want to get involved in the debate coinciding with the original topic, but yes it makes sense. Just think of all the training benefits a fixie can give you plus the added weight of a grocery run etc. Come spring you will notice a difference in your riding; stamina, leg strength, the list goes on. Also most other attributes apply as well. Bike weight, maintenance issues, hipster points, street cred.......... All kidding aside my two utility/errand bikes will be fixied by the new year.

Craig

wb -

I am the anti-hipster but do have some serious street cred... I'm that guy who is always riding his bikes.

Ever since I took up riding fixed I have had people telling me what you can't do on a fixed gear and about the only thing I can't do is shift gears.

I have never been in better shape as more than half of the 10,000 km I have ridden since May have been done on a fixed gear... my main summer commuter is fixed, my favourite touring bike is fixed, my Cascade is fixed, and I have a lovely 1940 CCM that is now also fixed after being run as a coaster bike.

I also have geared bikes and they are also very practical although for sheer utility, a fixed gear makes a great deal of sense.

One important thing to note is that it takes some time to get in the kind of shape you need to be in to ride a fixed gear... that whole lack of coasting is what requires more energy and stamina and not because a fixed gear is less efficient as it doesn't get much better.

Nonsense! In terms of energy expenditure, there is no difference between coasting and just letting your legs go around with the pedals without pushing down on them.

My opinion is that fixed-gear bikes have no justification whatsoever outside of a velodrome.