Road Bike Racing - Flat TTs - ideal weight

I was looking at Dave Z's web site and was surprised to see how thin he is; 6', 148 lbs. Even though he's a "TT specialist" I guess he still has to keep up with the rest of the Tour on other stages and must, obviously, put in the mega miles required of a Tour rider.

Since speed on the flats is primarily a function of power/drag I wonder if he would be even faster on flat TT stages if he beefed up a bit.

Hypothetically, if you said "Hey, Dave, forget the Tour; I've got $10M for you if you ride a flat, 40 km TT one year from today and do it in <= xx:xx:xx" and, if he went for it, dropped from the Tour and showed up in whatever form he wanted on the chosen date, do you think he would still be 148?

TT'ing well is more about mitochondrial density, O2 transport, muscular efficiency, etc than it is about brute strength. I doubt his weight would deviate that much.

If all he did was gain weight he would be slower...


power... to... weight... ratio...

TT'ing well is more about mitochondrial density, O2 transport, muscular efficiency, etc than it is about brute strength. I doubt his weight would deviate that much.

In other words; I'm screwed.

In other words; I'm screwed.

:lol:

All those parameters are highly trainable and weight can be lost so I wouldn't go that far.

How bad do you want it?

If all he did was gain weight he would be slower...


power... to... weight... ratio...


Um, I said "flat" TT.

My hypothesis is that, with the addition of a certain amount of beef, his power would go up.

You could always argue that with the addition of some muscle these guys could increase power/speed. That is not always the case, and IMO, probably not with Dave Z. He has found his optimum power/weight ratio at his listed racing weight.

Some people gain muscle and get faster, some gain it and slow down. It's highly individual and wopuld be hard to answer definitively.

DZ may be able to put on a few pounds of muscle and go .001mph faster, but evidently is doesn't benefit him or he probably would have done it.

Dave Z achieves his results because he puts out a good amount of power, and has a GREAT position on the bike.

Fabian Cancellara, who would be lying through his teeth if he said he weighs below a buck seventy, wins because he puts out an absolutely immense amount of power, in addition to a good, but not amazing, position on the bike.

That said, you don't have to be particularly large to do a fast TT. If you have a good position on the bike, and a good amount of power, you can throw down some pretty mean times in a 40k. And beat plenty of people who produce more power than you do. However, I'd be lying if I said that bulk doesn't help in your average short, prologue type of TT. Raw power will overcome a less efficient position in short time trials.

I remember reading that the "ideal" weight for a track pursuit racer was around 165lbs for someone who is 5' 11". Pursuit racers are going to be "beefier" than time trialists however, as pursuits are typically 4km.

So 148lbs sounds pretty reasonable.

My hypothesis is that, with the addition of a certain amount of beef, his power would go up.

Do a search on allometric scaling. CdA increases with weight.

Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF

DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF

It's his job.

Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF

Because he's a domestique whose job is (was, now) to win time trials, and set the early pace on climbs?

And if you look at some of his results from early this year, he had some pretty damn good finishes in the Dauphine Libere this year. 11th place on Ventoux, right next to Contador.

He has found his optimum power/weight ratio at his listed racing weight.


Some could argue that his new found climbing prowess this year, I belive he was closer to 140 for Giro and Dauphne, hurt his TTing.

He was up there in the TTs but I guess when your going up against the squeaky clean boys from Astana, you need that extra boost, not to infringe on anyones rights or anything.

Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF

5th overall at Dauphne, 3rd in the Giro upHILL TT, its called Vs., subscribe.

Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF
because he's just not a climber. too many people assume that just because some is small and/or light that they are automatically good climbers and if they are large that they can't climb. while being light is obviously helpful it's simply not the sole determining factor.

The world champ is about 176 pounds

5th overall at Dauphne, 3rd in the Giro upHILL TT, its called Vs., subscribe.

agree completely. the guy is probably one of the top 4 or 5 american climbers, just doesn't race for those.

because he's just not a climber. too many people assume that just because some is small and/or light that they are automatically good climbers and if they are large that they can't climb. while being light is obviously helpful it's simply not the sole determining factor.

Apparently you missed the posts of all the people who posted before you...who were actually correct.

The world champ is about 176 poundsBettini or Cancellara?

plus 6' at 148# = less muscle mass than 5'7" 148#

Bettini or Cancellara?

Bettini might break 65 kilos this winter. Maybe.

Bettini or Cancellara?


The topic is about time trialling, so take a guess.

Bettini or Cancellara?

:rolleyes:

tell me why I shouldn't put you on ignore.

Why is a skinny guy 148 lbs at 6' such a schitty climber?
DZ often finishes hours back in the mountain stages at the TDF

you must have missed the Dauphine Libere this year - 5th overall on GC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Crit%C3%A9rium_du_Dauphin%C3%A9_Lib%C3%A9r%C3%A9

edit; snap, already discussed above.

Because he's a domestique whose job is (was, now) to win time trials, and set the early pace on climbs?

And if you look at some of his results from early this year, he had some pretty damn good finishes in the Dauphine Libere this year. 11th place on Ventoux, right next to Contador.


Also, in a relative sense his power to weight ratio is not that great. As pointed out above he is a great time trialist because his power is good, and his position great.

When it comes to climbing the position portion of the equaition goes out the window.

Levi had a great tour time trial because he is able to maintain power and aero position while climbing when others have to pop up.

TT'ing well is more about mitochondrial density, O2 transport, muscular efficiency, etc than it is about brute strength. I doubt his weight would deviate that much.

This is what i was thinking too. Maximum power, as a function of sheer muscle mass, is not very important in a TT. The ability to sustain power, which is largely a function of metabolism and cardiovascular strength, is what really counts.

Its all about sustained power Vs. drag.

big riders tend to do better in flat TT's because they have bigger lungs etc. than a smaller riders. They also make more drag, but the increase in drag is generally less than the increase in power. They naturally end up with better sustained power Vs. drag ratios.

what im saying is that all else being equal, as rider size increases, sustained power generally increases faster than drag.

So, Dave Z is basically stuck with the lungs and heart he was born with. No amount of leg muscle will increase his cardio capacity, so his sustained power can only increase through training.

If anything, it would help to be as light as possible before sustained power starts to drop off, since extra body mass puts more strain on the lungs/heart.

:rolleyes:

tell me why I shouldn't put you on ignore.

Because I like monkeys, my favorite color is purple and I find you irresistable.

Because I like monkeys, my favorite color is purple and I find you irresistable.

:roflmao:

FTW