I was flipping through my paper this morning and as I got to the middle section (an automotive section where on Wednesdays, Click and Clack, or Ray and Tom - whatever their names are - have maintenance advice that I like to read) I see a picture of - ME!
A columnist, who I had previously emailed over a presentation of cyclists as being irresponsible for a little balance, used my pic that was taken for a peice he did in 2002 in which I presented a case for cyclists place on the road, for a similar column today.
I think the guy gives cyclists a fair shake in the end, but I also think he very much has a negative opinion of cyclists in general. I even managed to introduce myself to him a year after he wrote the previous column at a charity event and he was a dick to me (much like his emails that he sent in the events before he published my side of the motorist / cyclist colunm 5 years ago)
Anyways, it was a suprise to see me in the paper this morning
Bike riders, drivers must share road
Keith Morgan, The Province
Published: Wednesday, November 28, 2007
As the young cyclist waited for the light to change, a hot Corvette pulled into the curb lane and stopped just the depth of a tire tread away from his back wheel.
The sports-car driver repeatedly revved his engine and, at the green, he peeled into the next lane and gunned it past the bike, smirking at the sweating pedaller.
He roared on down the block only to pile into the back of a car ahead that had stopped for the red light! My son Niall rode past, turned and, resisting the temptation to giving the single finger salute, smiled sweetly at the flush-faced cool guy and enjoyed the Instant Karma.
A good story to start this week's theme -- sharing the road. It's not the first time my bike-mad heir has told me of some encounter with a fellow road user, who has the advantage of being encaged in metal.
Some of the stunts that idiot drivers -- as he calls them -- pull are unbelievable. He obeys the rules of the road, which apply to all, and is horrified when impatient drivers begin yelling at cyclists because they have the temerity to take up "their space" on the road!
Having said that, as I've told him many times, some of his brethren on two wheels don't do much to endear themselves to motorists, especially some of the so-called professionals that ride the downtown sidewalks while making courier deliveries.
Then there are the regular cyclists we all see, who ignore stop signs, anticipate the green, fail to signal, ride the wrong way down a street and ride the sidewalks -- wheels and feet don't mix, guys.
Cyclists have the same rights and responsibilities as any other road user, though it seems many riders won't accept the responsibilities, and too many drivers aren't willing to respect their rights.
Drivers, yield to cyclists as you would to any other vehicle. If you have the right-of-way at an intersection, proceed if it is safe, but watch for the errant cyclists I've just described.
Shoulder-check before you open your car door into a passing cyclist and pull well away from the curb or move to the next lane when passing a bicycle.
Pedestrians were the focus of an earlier column, so let's cover the other vulnerable minority, motorcyclists.
In poor weather, especially, a motorbike's turn signals can be hard to see, so watch for clues to intent. If the rider shoulder-checks or the motorcycle leans, the rider is probably planning to change lanes or turn. Never try to share a lane with a motorcycle and leave plenty of space when passing as your vehicle may throw up stones or water into the rider's face.
Of course, cars can be vulnerable, too, when around large vehicles such as commercial trucks, buses and motorhomes.
Keep your distance because large vehicles spray dirt and windshield shattering rocks. They also need room to turn and greater distances to stop, so don't cut in ahead of them unless you want to turn your sedan into a coupe.
The final word has to be about emergency vehicles. Emergency vehicles displaying flashing lights and sirens always have the right-of-way. Pull over to the nearest curb -- that will be the right lane on most roads but on a divided, multi-lane highway it could be the left lane.
Let's watch out for each other out there.
Next week: Speeding.
kmorgan@png.canwest.com
Mr. Underbridge
11-28-07, 11:08 AM
Sounds like his tone is improving, probably owing to your advocacy as well as his kid, no doubt. Nice job.
Heck, if anything it sounds like the guy is as VC as they come now. ;)
It is amazing that you survived this close encounter of the door kind! You must need several weeks of closely supervised training before you make any more deadly blunders. Several A&S posters are waiting by their phones waiting for your call.
Seriously, nice picture.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 01:55 PM
Nice surprise!
Actually, even though you are out of the door zone, it appears by your positioning that you're encouraging overtaking traffic to squeeze into your lane with you, as opposed to wanting them to cross the center line to pass. Is that your intent?
closetbiker
11-28-07, 02:17 PM
...Is that your intent?
It probably has a lot more to do with the angle the pic was taken from
ChezJfrey
11-28-07, 02:22 PM
The fear is so thick, you can cut it with a knife.
Does it ever end? We've got a picture of a guy riding in the clear, quite comfortably, with plenty of space all around him, traffic appears to be moving seamlessly by him, and his lane position is second-guessed and questioned?
StrangeWill
11-28-07, 04:09 PM
Before reading the thread, seeing the image, I was like "Who is the special ed' on the bike?"
;)
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 05:26 PM
It probably has a lot more to do with the angle the pic was taken from
Well, it appears that it's a 2-lane road, and you are slightly to the right of the van that is in front of you.
Regardless of this picture, assuming this is a road you ride on regularly, is this a road where you typically lane-share with same-direction traffic, or do you control the lane?
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 05:30 PM
Does it ever end? We've got a picture of a guy riding in the clear, quite comfortably, with plenty of space all around him, traffic appears to be moving seemlessly by him, and his lane position is second-guessed and questioned?
All I'm saying is that you can't convey to motorists behind you whether you want them to overtake within the lane, or overtake by crossing the center line, unless 1) you know what you want, and 2) you position yourself in a way that tells them clearly and unambiguously what you want.
From that picture, perhaps because of the angle, I can't tell what the cyclist wants in this respect. Can you? So that's why I'm asking.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 05:33 PM
The fear is so thick, you can cut it with a knife.
Are you not capable of differentiating fear from clearly communicating what one wants in terms of behavior in others?
Allister
11-28-07, 05:41 PM
Are you not capable of differentiating fear from clearly communicating what one wants in terms of behavior in others?
Are you not capable of giving closetbiker enough credit to know what he's doing without having to question it? Give it a rest, Serge.
John C. Ratliff
11-28-07, 05:56 PM
I was flipping through my paper this morning and as I got to the middle section (an automotive section where on Wednesdays, Click and Clack, or Ray and Tom - whatever their names are - have maintenance advice that I like to read) I see a picture of - ME!...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1004/575612037_9e94dbc2b4.jpg
Bike riders, drivers must share road
Keith Morgan, The Province
Published: Wednesday, November 28, 2007
As the young cyclist waited for the light to change, a hot Corvette pulled into the curb lane and stopped just the depth of a tire tread away from his back wheel.
The sports-car driver repeatedly revved his engine and, at the green, he peeled into the next lane and gunned it past the bike, smirking at the sweating pedaller.
He roared on down the block only to pile into the back of a car ahead that had stopped for the red light! My son Niall rode past, turned and, resisting the temptation to giving the single finger salute, smiled sweetly at the flush-faced cool guy and enjoyed the Instant Karma...
Very good write-up and story. I liked the kid, Niall, giving this dumb driver a nice smile as he rode past. That was a nice touch.
Thanks for sharing.
John
closetbiker
11-28-07, 06:05 PM
Are you not capable of giving closetbiker enough credit to know what he's doing without having to question it? Give it a rest, Serge.
Yeah. I've been riding for bunches of decades now and managed quite well. It was just a photo shoot.
Actually, the street is very close to where I live, an old Japanese fishing port called Steveston. It's quite likely you have seen it if you watch any TV or movies at all. They've filmed so many shows there, it'd be hard to count how many. Steveston is a small community in a larger city called Richmond, right next to Vancouver, where the Vancouver International Airport is located.
When the photographer came over, it was just a good place to take a shot. The street looks like Main Street, USA, traffic is light, and he just said, go down there and ride toward me.
I think I went back and forth a bunch of times, there hardly was any traffic (I think what shows in the pic is a trick of perspective showing what looked to be a far busier street than was actually the conditions at the time) but I rode just where I would expect a cyclist to ride.
LittleBigMan
11-28-07, 06:07 PM
Neat, Closetbiker!
And, quite off-topic (since that seems to be the case of the majority of posts in this thread,) how is your wife recovering? I'm sure that's more important than the bickering around here!
:)
Keep on riding! (What a silly statement, "Keep on riding!" :D)
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 06:17 PM
but I rode just where I would expect a cyclist to ride.
And if you did that for the sake of the photograph, that's great.
But my point stands: when the lane is too narrow to be safely shared side-by-side by bicyclist and overtaking motor traffic, as that lane appears to be (but I can't be sure), where one would expect a cyclist to ride is often not where it makes it clear, early, to overtaking traffic approaching from behind that the cyclist wants them to cross the center lane in order to pass.
Sorry to be so annoying, but as a cycling advocate, I'm not particularly fond of photographs in newspapers that seem to reinforce the notion that the primary obligation of the cyclist is to be out of the way as much as possible of motor traffic, because the implication is that cyclists should keep right even when that encourages close passes in narrow lanes. This photograph appears to me to be such a photograph, and it would be beneficial to all cyclists if at least the members of a cycling advocacy forum could learn to see and appreciate that.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 06:36 PM
Sounds like his tone is improving, probably owing to your advocacy as well as his kid, no doubt. Nice job.
Heck, if anything it sounds like the guy is as VC as they come now. ;)
Yeah, I'm not so sure.
I think it's funny his kids is bike crazy and calling out the bad drivers because the writer is basically a car proponent. He writes car reviews and has specifically said that he doesn't think any time persuing getting more people on bikes is useful. He's convinced not enough people will be encouraged to ride bikes to get around. I have to look this up to be sure, but I'm pretty sure he's not all that big on public transit either. Big suprise that he's a automotive reviewer, eh?
In the story, he plays "Devils Advocate" to his son, but more than once, he's written on that particular point of view.
One of those times, 5 years ago, he was writing a column on getting around and he wrote a bit on comments people had given him about people behaving badly on bikes.
Having read this before from him, I emailed him and pointed out that he should be a little more objective, that motorists are at fault sometimes too, provided him with some research to back this up.
He replied, "Yeah, yeah..... Lighten up, guy."
I came back with, "you're missing half the story. It's bike month, give us a break. I would think proof that cars run us down every day would show what you may have missed. As for lightening up, there is no need to be rude. I get enough of that on the road every day."
to which he replied, "don't exagerate"
I came back with, "I don't wish to alienate someone in your position who can do so much to help out in traffic safety but I wonder if you do understand what it's like to ride a bicycle in traffic every day in Vancouver."
He said, "I do. I ride myself."
We continued to go back and forth for a few emails with me giving some stories from the street I've been involved in and frankly, I was suprised he was taking the time to argue with me but disappointed that a writer was taking such a narrow view of things.
Finally, he came up with, "I will give some space to your comments in next Monday's In Traffic . .
. . but I would like a pic of you 'in flight' . . . . . we can take it either tomorrow or Friday."
The paper printed my side of cycling on the streets on Monday, but without the pic. This is the first time it was in the paper. I guess it's a file photo now.
As an aside, a year later he was at a pres conference for a charity event my daughter was involved in and I made the effort to go over and introduce myself. I was quite friendly, I explained who I was and that I appreciated what he's done and glad to meet him in person to thank him in person for printing my concerns. He said hi and turned his back on me. I don't think he could have been more rude.
I do have to give him credit though. He clearly has no love lost for cyclists, but does write that motorists as well as cyclists have to follow the rules for everyone to get along on the road. He writes that cyclists do have rights on the road. Considering his POV and his position, that credit is worth quite a bit. A lesser man would rave on about how cyclists shouldn't be on the road.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 06:42 PM
Neat, Closetbiker!
And, quite off-topic (since that seems to be the case of the majority of posts in this thread,) how is your wife recovering? I'm sure that's more important than the bickering around here!
:)
Keep on riding! (What a silly statement, "Keep on riding!" :D)
I updated the Cancer thread. Her lymph-nodes are clear so that's a big deal. We are still in treatment and there are some other issues that we're dealing with, but the big news is, the cancer seems to be gone (for now). We feel good, but there's still some emotional whammy we're dealing with.
Thanks for asking. One of the big things that helps is all the support we've been getting. It's nice to know people care. It's odd when there's silence from some. We're happy the worst seems to be over.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 06:51 PM
Serge, your irrational fears are what cause you to feel that you need to control the behaviors of drivers.
I don't want or need to control the behavior of drivers.
I want to be clear about my intentions and about what I want them to do because I understand that many of them are often unclear as to what they are supposed to do when it comes to overtaking cyclists properly, especially in situations where the lanes are relatively narrow. For example, often there is not enough room to pass without encroaching across the center line, but that is not clear to them until later then necessary (if the cyclist had been further left, it would have been clear sooner). As they are approaching they think they'll have enough room (after all, the cyclist is positioned as if there is enough room to share - see the photo in the OP), but as they get closer they realize there is not enough room. This is usually not a problem if there happens to be no oncoming traffic at the moment, but if there is, they have to slam the brakes. This makes them annoyed, often they honk (and the cyclist is bewildered). It gets messy. But if the cyclist had been further left in the first place, they would have realized the situation sooner, and could have planned the overtaking better (perhaps slowing down a bit and timing the pass so that they reach the cyclist when there is no oncoming traffic).
If you think it's about fear of being hit, you're totally missing the point.
When you make your desires clear to others, and they choose to comply, do you feel you are controlling them, Pete?
closetbiker
11-28-07, 06:52 PM
...Sorry to be so annoying, but as a cycling advocate, I'm not particularly fond of photographs in newspapers that seem to reinforce the notion that the primary obligation of the cyclist is to be out of the way as much as possible of motor traffic...
when the pic didn't appear in the paper, I emailed the photog if he could send me a copy and he did.
I've shown it to a few people over the last 5 years and most people who've seen it seem to get the impression that I'm riding right in the middle of traffic.
When it was taken, if I remember right, I was right in the middle of the road and the cars were far away from me. The photog was about a block down the street.
To me, it looks like the traffic is thicker than it was, I'm riding about in the right car tire track and away from an open door. I'm obscuring the grill of the SUV behind me. Doesn't that look like "taking the lane"?
Nobodys' made a comment about the helmet?
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:01 PM
I don't feel the need to control drivers that are sharing the road with me. I don't share your irrational fear of "close passes" and all of the other "hazards" that you are so concerned about.
It's just riding a bike Serge.
You are trying to control motorists when you use your "tools" to change their lane position (because you are so afraid). You claim that you are encouraging certain behaviors and discouraging other behaviors by the way that you ride.
If you want to go off on one of your silly semantic tangents go for it. It will be good for a few laughs, as that ploy always is.
The fact remains that this thread just reeks of your irrational fears.
If you think it's about fear of being hit, you're totally missing the point.
I want to be clear about my intentions and about what I want them to do because I understand that many of them are often unclear as to what they are supposed to do when it comes to overtaking cyclists properly, especially in situations where the lanes are relatively narrow. For example, often there is not enough room to pass without encroaching across the center line, but that is not clear to them until later than necessary (if the cyclist had been further left, it would have been clear sooner). As they are approaching they think they'll have enough room (after all, the cyclist is positioned as if there is enough room to share - see the photo in the OP), but as they get closer they realize there is not enough room. This is usually not a problem if there happens to be no oncoming traffic at the moment, but if there is, they have to slam the brakes. This makes them annoyed, often they honk (and the cyclist is bewildered). It gets messy. But if the cyclist had been further left in the first place, they would have realized the situation sooner, and could have planned the overtaking better (perhaps slowing down a bit and timing the pass so that they reach the cyclist when there is no oncoming traffic).
Allister
11-28-07, 07:04 PM
Sorry to be so annoying,
No you're not, or you wouldn't keep doing it.
Allister
11-28-07, 07:08 PM
For example, often there is not enough room to pass without encroaching across the center line, but that is not clear to them until later than necessary (if the cyclist had been further left, it would have been clear sooner). As they are approaching they think they'll have enough room (after all, the cyclist is positioned as if there is enough room to share - see the photo in the OP), but as they get closer they realize there is not enough room.
Aren't you the guy that keeps crapping on about how competent drivers are? One of the clear indicators of driving competence is knowing how wide your vehicle is, and how big a gap it can fit through. It's clear, however, from the above statements that you have no such confidence in their abilities at all. LOL
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:09 PM
when the pic didn't appear in the paper, I emailed the photog if he could send me a copy and he did.
I've shown it to a few people over the last 5 years and most people who've seen it seem to get the impression that I'm riding right in the middle of traffic.
When it was taken, if I remember right, I was right in the middle of the road and the cars were far away from me. The photog was about a block down the street.
To me, it looks like the traffic is thicker than it was, I'm riding about in the right car tire track and away from an open door. I'm obscuring the grill of the SUV behind me. Doesn't that look like "taking the lane"?
Nobodys' made a comment about the helmet?
I still think it looks like you're to the right of the right side of the van that is in front of you, not in the right tire track (which would still be too far right if you want them to cross the center line when passing you).
Anyway, you know that road, I don't. Knowing that road, is the driver of the white Trooper going to have to cross the center line in order to overtake the cyclist?
What I'm really trying to get to is I think it's important for cyclists to be aware of how they are affecting the drivers around them. Most motorists are not experts on cyclist-motorist interactions in traffic (and this is why so many of them get frustrated with cyclists in traffic), and we often have to make up for that. That means being aware of what it takes to pass us, especially with respect to whether it can be done by lane sharing or whether it requires moving over into the adjacent or oncoming lane. That's just something a cyclist should be aware of any time he is riding in traffic, which is the first step to being able to properly position yourself laterally to convey whichever is the situation effectively.
Allister
11-28-07, 07:12 PM
Nobodys' made a comment about the helmet?
LOL. I did notice that and had a quiet ironic chuckle to myself, but I haven't really been following the Helmet Wars, and have no interest in prolonging it. I understand your position, I think, and I don't see any contradiction in it by wearing one.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:13 PM
Aren't you the guy that keeps crapping on about how competent drivers are? One of the clear indicators of driving competence is knowing how wide your vehicle is, and how big a gap it can fit through. It's clear, however, from the above statements that you have no such confidence in their abilities at all. LOL
With respect to following the rules of the road, yes, drivers are generally competent. But with respect to knowing how to pass cyclists, especially in narrow and marginally narrow lane situations, especially when the cyclist is riding off to the side, many are not too sure. Again, that's part of the reason why they get frustated with cyclists in traffic.
Edit: Maybe they're better at it in Australia than they are in the States. I know they're generally better at it in Europe, but the cars are smaller there too.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:15 PM
No you're not, or you wouldn't keep doing it.
I'm sorry, just not that sorry.
I think it's more important to convey my point than to not be annoying (which is also important but not as important).
buzzman
11-28-07, 07:18 PM
when the pic didn't appear in the paper, I emailed the photog if he could send me a copy and he did.
I've shown it to a few people over the last 5 years and most people who've seen it seem to get the impression that I'm riding right in the middle of traffic.
When it was taken, if I remember right, I was right in the middle of the road and the cars were far away from me. The photog was about a block down the street.
To me, it looks like the traffic is thicker than it was, I'm riding about in the right car tire track and away from an open door. I'm obscuring the grill of the SUV behind me. Doesn't that look like "taking the lane"?
Nobodys' made a comment about the helmet?
cool picture.
Your lane position doesn't bother me. Are you off the saddle? Looks like you're still gathering speed. I'd probably ride right where you describe- right tire track. It's hard to tell from a photo anyway, so I wouldn't want to make a judgement but from what the conditions look like I probably wouldn't be any further left unless my speed matched that of the other traffic.
The article reinforces the concept of the bicycle as a vehicle and that along with that comes certain responsibilities- which is great. He also seems to be making the point that people are people no matter what kind of vehicle they drive/ride. Some will act responsibly some will act irresponsibly. I feel motorists bear greater responsibility due to the speed and mass of their vehicles and the amount of damage they can potentially do- but that may just be my perspective as primarily a cyclist who also drives but more occasionally.
I wondered about the helmet because I've read several of your posts questioning the wisdom of wearing a helmet. But I'm of the opinion "ain't nobody's business but your own" whether you're wearing one or not. If I've learned anything from BF it's to live and let live around the helmet thing.:o
Allister
11-28-07, 07:24 PM
With respect to following the rules of the road, yes, drivers are generally competent. But with respect to knowing how to pass cyclists, especially in narrow and marginally narrow lane situations, especially when the cyclist is riding off to the side, many are not too sure. Again, that's part of the reason why they get frustated with cyclists in traffic.
Overtaking is pretty well covered in the rules of the road iirc. They certainly don't specify whether it's overtaking a cyclist or a motorist, so if they aren't overtaking cyclists safely, they most definitely are not following the rules of the road. Your attitude merely reinforces the idea that cyclists are not part of legitimate, normal traffic.
Allister
11-28-07, 07:28 PM
I'm sorry, just not that sorry.
Ah. I should've recognised your insincerity.
I think it's more important to convey my point than to not be annoying (which is also important but not as important).
Religious nutters such as yourself are like that.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:30 PM
Pete,
The percentage of the population that is comfortable with riding a bike in in all kinds of traffic is represented by a fraction of existing cyclists. Some of the most experienced cyclists in San Diego see where I ride and send their condolences. They think I'm crazy. Very few existing cyclists dare to ride where I ride.
What I'm trying to explain are the techniques and practices that I use that make it possible for me to ride where hardly anyone else dares to ride.
But if you're one of the rare cyclists, like myself, who is comfortable riding his bike on any road in any kind of traffic, then none of my advice applies to you. But if that's really you, then that puts you in, sadly, a small minority of cyclists, and a tiny minority of the population at large. As a cycling advocate, that's what I'm trying to address through the techiques and practices that I advocate on this forum.
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:33 PM
Ah. I should've recognised your insincerity.
Religious nutters such as yourself are like that.
Back to the personal insults so soon? :rolleyes:
Helmet Head
11-28-07, 07:37 PM
Overtaking is pretty well covered in the rules of the road iirc. They certainly don't specify whether it's overtaking a cyclist or a motorist, so if they aren't overtaking cyclists safely, they most definitely are not following the rules of the road. Your attitude merely reinforces the idea that cyclists are not part of legitimate, normal traffic.
Well, many drivers have trouble passing all kinds of drivers of slow moving vehicles in certain contexts, and in those situtions it's equally important/helpful for the driver of the slow moving vehicle to do what he can to make it clear to the faster driver when and how to pass. For example, it is common practice for drivers of large commercial semis to flash their lights to indicate when it's safe for an overtaker to move back in. For passing cyclists the particulars are different, but the general "be helpful/clear" philosophy I advocate is the same. It is common practice for all drivers of moving vehicle to move aside when it is safe and reasonable to be passed, and to not move aside when it is not.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 07:41 PM
LOL. I did notice that and had a quiet ironic chuckle to myself, but I haven't really been following the Helmet Wars, and have no interest in prolonging it. I understand your position, I think, and I don't see any contradiction in it by wearing one.
I think you do and I don't either. For further enticement, it's quite a vintage model (some would say it needs to be - replaced -) and we're pretty much forced to wear them anyhow. When I usually ride this road, I don't wear one (if a cop gets me,it's a short walk home) but I'm pretty sure the paper required me to wear one for the pic.
Allister
11-28-07, 07:42 PM
Back to the personal insults so soon? :rolleyes:
You can always pretend to put me on your ignore list again.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 07:52 PM
cool picture.
Your lane position doesn't bother me. Are you off the saddle? Looks like you're still gathering speed.
Yeah. I did several back and forths and was out of the saddle more than usual (I didn't really have to - I was thinking "speed" would translate in a pic)
I'd probably ride right where you describe- right tire track. It's hard to tell from a photo anyway, so I wouldn't want to make a judgement but from what the conditions look like I probably wouldn't be any further left unless my speed matched that of the other traffic.
That's just it. I was riding right in the "middle" of traffic, because I was the traffic. I was in the middle of the quiet street with no cars closer than a block from me. The traffic was moving at the same speed I was travelling.
The article reinforces the concept of the bicycle as a vehicle and that along with that comes certain responsibilities- which is great. He also seems to be making the point that people are people no matter what kind of vehicle they drive/ride. Some will act responsibly some will act irresponsibly. I feel motorists bear greater responsibility due to the speed and mass of their vehicles and the amount of damage they can potentially do- but that may just be my perspective as primarily a cyclist who also drives but more occasionally.
I agree
I wondered about the helmet because I've read several of your posts questioning the wisdom of wearing a helmet. But I'm of the opinion "ain't nobody's business but your own" whether you're wearing one or not. If I've learned anything from BF it's to live and let live around the helmet thing.:o
Yeah, I think a helmet has some use and a place, but that doesn't mean if someone chooses to go lidless, he/she is not bright or conversly, if one goes with one, he/she is brighter. Tolerance is best I think. My province likes to fine cyclists without helmets, make them walk, and seize the bicycles of those that argue with the law. Still, I manage to go without from time to time. Call me reckless.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 08:15 PM
I still think it looks like you're to the right of the right side of the van that is in front of you...What I'm really trying to get to is I think it's important for cyclists to be aware of how they are affecting the drivers around them...
perspective is a funny thing. when I first emailed the writer, it was because I had a perspective he didn't. When I showed my friends the pic, they had a different perspective of what traffic was like in the pic than I did. I think Serge has a perspective that's unique to him and that's what he sees.
I think cyclists should be aware of what's going on around them as well as drivers should be. They both have responsibilities and should be held to them. I think that's the bottom line of the story and the pic enforces it by showing the same. But that's just my perspective.
urban_assault
11-28-07, 08:49 PM
Holy Crap Helmet Head! Does EVERY thread have to end up with you on your soapbox?
To the OP: Cool surprise to have today. Nice. I was surprised when I picked of the Georgia 2003 Bike Map and found myself on it. The pic was taken during a Bike to Work day ride.
closetbiker
11-28-07, 09:53 PM
Yeah.
I think the last time I was so suprised was way back in the days before email when after a graveyard shift I settled into bed with my new copy of Bicycling magazine (now that was a long time ago) and read the letter section.
I read one letter and thought, Yeah, that's just like me. Wait a minute, there's my name on the letter! I wrote it. So much time had passed since I mailed it in, I forgot that I wrote the letter.
Mago
11-28-07, 10:29 PM
closetbiker - at least you got through enough for this guy to put some bike-positive to his column. Positive vibes to you, and i'm sorry your thread got jacked.
John C. Ratliff
11-28-07, 10:39 PM
...Nobodys' made a comment about the helmet?
Okay, it's good to see your helmet too.
By the way, I'm very happy that your wife is doing better. I had not heard, until the above post...there was no intentional silence on my part. My wife is a hospital pharmacist, and so I know a bit about some of the trials that people go through.
I've done some photography in my time, and it looks like the photographer was using a pretty long lens, probably a 400mm or so. What really makes the photo look like you aren't in the middle of the lane is the van a block behind you, which is turning and in the center of the roadway. The compressed lines of sight give an optical illusion that you are further right than what is reality.
Today, I got a good lesson on lane positioning. I was in the bike lane (exactly where HH says I should be on this stretch of roadway), coming home in the dark, in a very wet, soggy day. I went down a slight incline, and looked behind me, as there were a long line of cars overtaking me. Then, in front a huge water puddle showed up as I rounded a curve at the bottom of the incline. The pool extended across the first lane of traffic. I had no choice but to simply ride through the water, which turned out to be about 6 inches deep on the bike lane. There was no time to signal, and enter the traffic lane. Slightly behind me was a Federal Express truck, overtaking me as I rode the bike lane. He saw the problem, and slowed way down to match my speed when he was beside me. We went through the pool of water together, and he did splash my left leg (my right leg was protected by the recumbant's fairing). Once through, he gained speed, and I was out of the water. Had he not slowed down, he would have sent a blinding sheet of water across my bow, and potentially caused an accident. I am really appreciative of the professional driving skills of that FedEx driver.
John
I-Like-To-Bike
11-29-07, 04:01 AM
Sorry to be so annoying, but as a cycling advocate, I'm not particularly fond of photographs in newspapers that seem to reinforce the notion...
Cycling advocacy? Is that what you call inane nagging and nannying with pet theories and dogma at every opportunity?
toucci
11-29-07, 07:43 AM
Pete,
The percentage of the population that is comfortable with riding a bike in in all kinds of traffic is represented by a fraction of existing cyclists. Some of the most experienced cyclists in San Diego see where I ride and send their condolences. They think I'm crazy. Very few existing cyclists dare to ride where I ride.
What I'm trying to explain are the techniques and practices that I use that make it possible for me to ride where hardly anyone else dares to ride.
Where do you ride? Miramar road at 2 am?
closetbiker
11-29-07, 08:49 AM
closetbiker - at least you got through enough for this guy to put some bike-positive to his column. Positive vibes to you, and i'm sorry your thread got jacked.
After sleeping on it, I think yeah, maybe my emails did make a difference (and maybe his son does too)
Before I emailed him, he wrote most cyclists are an irresponsible lot, after, he wrote motorists have to respect the rights of cyclists on the road too.
The highlighted quote on the printed page doesn't discriminate and the pic looks like everyone on the road doing different things and all co-operating nicely doing it.
I think the highjack is kind of a bit funny as, like I said, when the pic was shot I was the only one on the road in that block. I just did a few repeat runs down the road with no car near me. The issue of lane positioning when there is no traffic near, what traffic there is is slow, is a non-existant one. It's kinda like if the Omega Man should have paid for all that stuff he was getting from the store (to use a movie analogy). The point is moot.
closetbiker
11-29-07, 08:58 AM
What really makes the photo look like you aren't in the middle of the lane is the van a block behind you, which is turning and in the center of the roadway.
That van is making a left through the center of the roadway and what looks further to my right is the van behind the turning van. Even though it is travelling in the opposing direction in the opposite lane, it looks further to my right than I am.
Yes, the compressed lines of sight give an optical illusion that I am further right than what is reality.
PS - thanks for your concern John and I wasn't referring to anyone here about their lack of response. It was more close friends and family that have their own difficulties and don't respond in times of crisis.
littlewaywelt
11-29-07, 10:01 AM
Pete,
The percentage of the population that is comfortable with riding a bike in in all kinds of traffic is represented by a fraction of existing cyclists. Some of the most experienced cyclists in San Diego see where I ride and send their condolences. They think I'm crazy. Very few existing cyclists dare to ride where I ride.
:D
cue Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins
Ppl have different levels of comfort with danger. Too bad you don't realize that your comfort zone isn't better than someone who has a lower level (nor is theirs than yours). Too bad that you don't realize that there's a decent reason most ppl don't want to take a lane and ride on major thoroughfares. One's level of fear/comfort zone does not change the objective hazard of the situation. Taking a lane may only increase your perception that you're safer, but in reality may make only a minimally perceptible or statistical difference, and maybe not enough to warrant being in a more dangerous situation or road.
PerhamBiker
11-29-07, 11:05 AM
What is a religious nutter? What does that have to do with cycling? Sounds stereotypical to me.
I-Like-To-Bike
11-29-07, 11:26 AM
What is a religious nutter? What does that have to do with cycling? Sounds stereotypical to me.
See the recent posts about Vehicular Cycling from one prime example of of cycling zealotry on the VC special discussion list . For more, look up the theology of bicycling with visions of dynamic lane positioning, inadvertent drift, or conspicuous conspicuity.
AlmostTrick
11-29-07, 11:31 AM
Closetbiker- Congratulations and good job.
HH- Can you post some photos of your lane positioning in action on some of the toughest streets you ride? While it certainly isn't hard to imagine what it would look like, I think photos would be of great interest to many. (In a new thread of course)
I want to make it clear that I am in no way doubting your claims of how or where you ride, but am genuinely interested in seeing it in action.
lyledriver
11-29-07, 02:15 PM
Closetbiker, good pic, nice helmet, jersey and alpha dog stare =]
The article wasn't that bad either.
Now you'll get to see yourself in that rag whenever there is a piece on cycling.
Helmet Head
11-29-07, 02:24 PM
Where do you ride? Miramar road at 2 am?
La Jolla Village Drive between Torrey Pines Road and Regents Road at commute times (e/b in the morning, w/b in the evening).
It's really not that bad, but I hardly ever see any other cyclists ride there at those times, and when I tell folks I do it they tell me I'm crazy, even experienced cyclists tell me that. But I've been doing it for 7 years now.