Surly CrossCheck at Bikesdirect

[MIN]

What's the BFD with Surly anyway? Overpriced chromo frames with aesthetics on par with herpes. I'd rather ride a Nashbar 853 frame than Surly. Lighter and cheaper.

[seat_boy]

really? i think they look like weird, ugly bumps where the headset should be.

I'm going to second (third? fourth?) the no integrated headset vote. They're just ugly, and there's zero benefit to them.

[InternetDisease]

What's the BFD with Surly anyway? Overpriced chromo frames with aesthetics on par with herpes. I'd rather ride a Nashbar 853 frame than Surly. Lighter and cheaper.

Nashbar doesn't make an 853 cyclocross frame. their 853 mountain brake weighs almost exactly the same as the crosscheck (something on the other of a hundredth of a pound, according to specs), has no braze-ons for fenders or rack, costs almost the same when you factor in the price of a fork, and most importantly, is not a cyclocross bike.

[MIN]

Nashbar doesn't make an 853 cyclocross frame. their 853 mountain brake weighs almost exactly the same as the crosscheck (something on the other of a hundredth of a pound, according to specs), has no braze-ons for fenders or rack, costs almost the same when you factor in the price of a fork, and most importantly, is not a cyclocross bike.

(a) it's still ugly. (b) in truth I wouldn't ride a nashbar frame either. (c) a cross bike generally isn't outfitted for fenders and racks. You are looking for a touring bike misnamed as a cross bike. not that there is anything wrong with that however many others would concur that a crosscheck is not a race machine.

[doubled]

I was on this forum under a different name and now I am back under a new one. I think that while I was gone this forum has gone more and more toward a touring/vintage forum and less and less in the direction of cyclocross racing. In my short time back I have noticed, and I think others would concur that even you MIN do not have a race machine. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If your goals are to have a bike that is going to substitute your two bicycles your going to be happy with the cross-check according too surly. I have not ridden one but it sounds like an excellent compromise. With the FFF design and provisions for racks and fenders you should be all around happy. Its not a race machine by design, but what it is designed for Ive heard it does pretty damn well. I think a little more thought goes into the surly than say a nashbar frame. 853 is great stuff and provides an excellent ride however a poor design can ruin any material. The nashbar in my opinion aims at just that, providing consumers with a title for their frame "853 steel!" however they must compromise in design in order to produce low cost goods with quality materials. Give the cross-check it a shot! and have fun on your bike.

[MIN]

how did my bike get dragged into this cesspool of opinions?

[doubled]

Your bike got dragged in becuase your previous statement was critical of the cross-check for not being a race machine however the cross-check in a standard setup is a more practical race machine regardless of tubing or fender provisions than your lemond.
This is the cyclocross forums. I cant wait to contribute pictures of my cyclocross race machine!

[MIN]

yawn

[InternetDisease]

yawn

you are the worst kind of poster: a know-it-all who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about basically all of the time. so rarely does someone so uninformed try to pick so many arguments he doesn't understand and can't win.

you really are one of bike forum's most unpleasant people.

[flargle]

Easy there guys. Hug it out.

[doubled]

thanks internetdisease I think thats what I was looking for, but I was trying to relate it to cyclocross. More cyclocross min, less retrogrouch! that belongs in the vintage forum.
I look foward to posting here more.

[sfcrossrider]

I have both a sub 17 pound Ridley (a race machine to say the least), and a Surly. Now that the race season is over I'll be spending more time with my Surly. Go figure. ;)

[alanbikehouston]

BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price". In fact, they are selling the Surley for just $30 less than list price. Visit a few REAL Surley dealers and you should be able to find the 2007 models selling for a least $100 under list, fully assembled, with the shop backing up the Surly factory warranty.

BikesDirect: always at least "50% off"...on TRUTHFULNESS.

[Brian]

BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price". In fact, they are selling the Surley for just $30 less than list price. Visit a few REAL Surley dealers and you should be able to find the 2007 models selling for a least $100 under list, fully assembled, with the shop backing up the Surly factory warranty.

BikesDirect: always at least "50% off"...on TRUTHFULNESS.

Links please.

[dragonmg]

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm

Shimano Tiagra, 18 Spd Cyclocross
2008 Surly CrossCheck $899.95Custom Lugged CrMo Fork, SL77 Bar-Con Shifters
Save up to 50% Off List Prices
Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect


That last devious bit in red has no business being in the listing

[alanbikehouston]

CityBikes of Washington D.C. is advertising the 2007 version for $799, $100 less than what BikesDirect claims is a 2008 model. Comparing the specs, the appeared to be the same bike.

And Surly has dealers in just about every major city in America. If I was getting this bike, I'd be happy to pay the Surly dealer in my neighborhood full list price ($930), because their fitting, assembly, tuning and adjustments, and warranty service would be well worth the $30 I'd save buying for "50% off List Prices".

[MIN]

Yeah, as much as I don't like the Cross check, it is sold for $899 and $930 at local bike shops so BD's claim on pricing is suspect.

[TimJ]

You guys,

"Save up to 50% Off List Prices
Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect"

That is CLEARLY a standard robo-insert and doesn't even refer to the crosscheck. It doesn't say it's 50% off the list price, it's a non-specific blurb: "Save up to 50% Off List Prices", "Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect". It's probably on every single page on their site, for crying out loud. It's their freaking slogan!

Come on. You may argue the placement of this non-specific little advertisement blurb is slightly misleading, but:

BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price".

Is a completely unreasonable reading of that text.

This is really stupid. If you're going to bag on them at least be intellectually honest about it.

[dragonmg]

Is a completely unreasonable reading of that text.

This is really stupid. If you're going to bag on them at least be intellectually honest about it.

There's a track record of this kind of misleading information, which is why this dead horse discussion comes up so often with BD and not the other "direct" bicycle brands. Our friend at BD knows what he is doing here. Here's the google search find:

Road Surly CycloCross/Touring
2008 Surly CrossCheck $899.95 Custom Lugged CrMo Fork, SL77 Bar-Con Shifters Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect Price ...
www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm) - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

And for the record, most everyone that posts here on this subject is educated enough about bikes and sizing and choices to be able to make their purchasing decisions online with a reasonable amount of acuteness, but it's the naive new riders that get bewildered by all this "50% off of list price" stuff. They are the ones who are taken advantage by the distortions and half-truths riddled through the BD website.

[TimJ]

Yeah, I know people have been bagging on bikesdirect in various ways for various reasons for a long time and I don't care one way or the other. My point is taking "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" and turning it into "BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price"" is completely unreasonable. It just is. The words are right there for everyone to read and "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" does not = "BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price"".

If you want to argue people who go there who don't know anything about bikes are going to see the generic "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" and think "wow, this bike that I'm looking at right here is 50% off the list price" then be my guest. I think someone would have to be pretty stupid to think that though.

[dragonmg]

My point is taking "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" and turning it into "BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price"" is completely unreasonable. It just is. The words are right there for everyone to read and "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" does not = "BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price"".

Here's the quote again from Google, Yahoo - all the search engines, just in case you missed it:

2008 Surly CrossCheck $899.95 Custom Lugged CrMo Fork, SL77 Bar-Con Shifters Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect Price ...
www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm) - 26k - Cached - Similar pages



Still unreasonable? Doesn't look like a stretch to me.

[MIN]

worse than a mutual circle jerk that is ultimately results in blueballs

[TimJ]

Here's the quote again from Google, Yahoo - all the search engines, just in case you missed it:

2008 Surly CrossCheck $899.95 Custom Lugged CrMo Fork, SL77 Bar-Con Shifters Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect Price ...
www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm) - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

Still unreasonable? Doesn't look like a stretch to me.


In case I missed it? Good lord, I replied to it.

Since you're repeating yourself I'll just repeat myself since I feel exactly the same way as before.


...

You may argue the placement of this non-specific little advertisement blurb is slightly misleading, but:

BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price".

Is a completely unreasonable reading of that text.

...

The words are right there for everyone to read and "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" does not = "BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price"".

If you want to argue people who go there who don't know anything about bikes are going to see the generic "Save up to 50% Off List Prices Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect" and think "wow, this bike that I'm looking at right here is 50% off the list price" then be my guest. I think someone would have to be pretty stupid to think that though.

[Brian]

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/crosscheck2.htm

Shimano Tiagra, 18 Spd Cyclocross
2008 Surly CrossCheck $899.95Custom Lugged CrMo Fork, SL77 Bar-Con Shifters
Save up to 50% Off List Prices
Buy Factory Direct from Bikesdirect


That last devious bit in red has no business being in the listing


Compare that to Alan's claim:

BikesDirect claims it is selling the Surly for "50% off list price".

Don't they teach basic reading skills in Texas?

worse than a mutual circle jerk that is ultimately results in blueballs

And for you, I have this quote: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” It works for posting too.

[Cynikal]

Looks like the CX sub-forum is turning into the next SS/fixed sub-forum. I'll get some popcorn.

[shapelike]

I've been off SS/FG cold turkey for almost a month now. Please don't let CX turn into the same crap.

[InternetDisease]

I've been off SS/FG cold turkey for almost a month now. Please don't let CX turn into the same crap.

i think the attitude just follows bikes direct everywhere. same thing on the road forum.

[MIN]

I've been off SS/FG cold turkey for almost a month now. Please don't let CX turn into the same crap.

BS, you PMed me with a question just last week, bro.

[wompwomp]

So wait, wait, wait.

As someone who both reads and buys things critically, what exactly is the point here again?
Is this thread intended in some way to educate people about deceptive internet-business practices?
Is this about calling out BD for some degree of deceptive business practices?

No, seriously.

[MIN]

So wait, wait, wait.

As someone who both reads and buys things critically, what exactly is the point here again?
Is this thread intended in some way to educate people about deceptive internet-business practices?
Is this about calling out BD for some degree of deceptive business practices?

No, seriously.

I personally wanted to start a fight. I didn't even read the thread.

[wompwomp]

I personally wanted to start a fight. I didn't even read the thread.

I dunno if I'd buy a CC from bikesdirect, or that statement first. =0p

[sfcrossrider]

So wait, wait, wait.

As someone who both reads and buys things critically, what exactly is the point here again?
Is this thread intended in some way to educate people about deceptive internet-business practices?
Is this about calling out BD for some degree of deceptive business practices?

No, seriously.

I'm hoping the BD guy reads, and takes our input to heart. I would love to see a ti 29er, or a ti CX bike for a great price. All the BD bikes I've seen in person were as nice as any other box bike on the market.

I don't see how he is doing anything deceptive (IMO). He's offering very well specked bikes for a great price. Unless he kills a child with each bike sold... I'm buying.

[mosplat]

mercier kilo tt's are everywhere. probably for a reason.
i've tried a windsor hour and it's a fine bike.
sh1t, i wish BD had an ss cross bike last fall so i coulda bought it.

surly's are good bikes too. i've met many riders on all different bikes (cross-checks, LHT's, steamrollers, instigators) who have had really good experiences. but whoever brought up heart and soul in an effort to raise surly out of "the BD gutter": they're still outsourced. that doesn't mean they're bad bikes, it just means they aren't crafted by the same person who had the vision (or works closely with the person who had the vision) of that bicycle. i consider that a "heart and soul" bicycle endeavor. and it has its value to some people.

to the OP: look at what you started. haha in all seriousness the cross-check is a fine bike (imo; i had considered it and would have pulled the trigger if getting an ss version was easier). the price at BD is what it is, so i guess just do what is convenient for you?

[fitzdawg]

At the risk of sounding like an anti-capitalist, free-market hating snob, I can't help but feel like this cheapens Surly's brand. Yeah, the Motobecanes / Windsors / etc are decent enough budget frames. But there's no real company behind those designs-- they're the average stuff from China / Taiwan manufacturer catalogs.
.

Where do you think non-carbon Treks come from? They may be designed in the US, but their lower cost frames are made by Kinesis (probably on the same production lines as BD bikes), along with several other major US "name brands." I'm not a shill, as both my road and 'cross bikes are Cannondales, but I still don't like it when folks bash Asian made bikes.

[MillCreek]

I'm hoping the BD guy reads, and takes our input to heart. I would love to see a ti 29er, or a ti CX bike for a great price.

As noted elsewhere in this and other threads, Mike will be releasing a titanium cross bike in August 2008. Estimated cost is $ 1500 for an Ultegra group, cantis and disc tabs.

[sfcrossrider]

As noted elsewhere in this and other threads, Mike will be releasing a titanium cross bike in August 2008. Estimated cost is $ 1500 for an Ultegra group, cantis and disc tabs.

Yes... and ss ti 29er would be nice as well.