DVC45
Good specs? Fair price?
' am not a shill, just curious if its a good deal.
Thanks!
' am not a shill, just curious if its a good deal.
Thanks!
Surly CrossCheck at Bikesdirect
The BikeForums Team
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cyclotoine
give us some details, a link to the bike you are thinking of.. etc... but this isn't really a classic and vintage topic, you might try the cyclocross or commuters forum.
DVC45
Oops! ' meant to ask it at the Cyclocross board. Moderator please move. Sorry!
xiamsammyx
its worth it.
Brian
its worth it.
Help him out and explain why.
Help him out and explain why.
DVC45
Will it make a good all around bike (commuting, touring, weekend group ride)?
TIA!
TIA!
Brian
I'd like a triple for touring, if it was me. The spec isn't bad, it just depends on your primary usage.
DVC45
Well, I want to get rid of my other two bikes (a hybrid turned commuter and a vintage road bike) because I need space in the garage. The Surly at BD got me thinking as a viable replacement, all-arounder. I have a folding bike as a back-up.
Brian
Well, I want to get rid of my other two bikes (a hybrid turned commuter and a vintage road bike) because I need space in the garage. The Surly at BD got me thinking as a viable replacement, all-arounder. I have a folding bike as a back-up.
That's not really answering the question. Are you looking specifically for a steel bike? What will it mostly be used for?
That's not really answering the question. Are you looking specifically for a steel bike? What will it mostly be used for?
xiamsammyx
the cross check is a spectacular all around commuting bike. its not the best in the world for cyclocross racing as it is a bit heavy but if you dont plan on racing with it its hard to find a better bike for a better price. and yes the componentry on the ones sold on BD is a pretty solid line up.
I'd say there is very little chance of you being disapointed if you buy it.
I'd say there is very little chance of you being disapointed if you buy it.
DVC45
Are you looking specifically for a steel bike? What will it mostly be used for?
Steel bike, yes. It will be used for things I mentioned above. No racing.
Steel bike, yes. It will be used for things I mentioned above. No racing.
cs1
Good specs? Fair price?
' am not a shill, just curious if its a good deal.
Thanks!
I was kind of blown away to see Surly's, that's Steamroller and Crosscheck, both at Bikesdirect. QBP must think he's mainstream.
Tim
' am not a shill, just curious if its a good deal.
Thanks!
I was kind of blown away to see Surly's, that's Steamroller and Crosscheck, both at Bikesdirect. QBP must think he's mainstream.
Tim
dirtyphotons
as noted in another thread, all you need to get a qbp account is a brick and mortar bike shop. i'm not sure exactly the definition of "bike shop" but presumably bikes direct has a storefront somewhere. the prices on these are pretty much in line with what everybody else sells them for.
sfcrossrider
the cross check is a spectacular all around commuting bike. its not the best in the world for cyclocross racing as it is a bit heavy but if you dont plan on racing with it its hard to find a better bike for a better price. and yes the componentry on the ones sold on BD is a pretty solid line up.
I'd say there is very little chance of you being disapointed if you buy it.
What they said. I love mine.
I'd say there is very little chance of you being disapointed if you buy it.
What they said. I love mine.
dpr
How would you guys rate the cross check as a winter training bike for purely the road? Im after a bike which will accept mudguards, hence my considering cross bikes.
dirtyphotons
How would you guys rate the cross check as a winter training bike for purely the road? Im after a bike which will accept mudguards, hence my considering cross bikes.
a plus, just throw some slicks on there. the chainstays are short enough that you might have to carefully position your panniers to avoid heel strike, but it shouldn't be a major issue.
you can get racks that sit further back on the bike as well as bags that have cutouts for your heel if necessary. but in my experience it hasnt come to that.
a plus, just throw some slicks on there. the chainstays are short enough that you might have to carefully position your panniers to avoid heel strike, but it shouldn't be a major issue.
you can get racks that sit further back on the bike as well as bags that have cutouts for your heel if necessary. but in my experience it hasnt come to that.
dpr
a plus, just throw some slicks on there. the chainstays are short enough that you might have to carefully position your panniers to avoid heel strike, but it shouldn't be a major issue.
you can get racks that sit further back on the bike as well as bags that have cutouts for your heel if necessary. but in my experience it hasnt come to that.
How did you know that I would want to carry panniers? Did you see my other recent threads where I stated I was looking for a winter / touring bike?
Specifically, does any one know how the Cross - Check handles on tarmac with 23/25c tires?
you can get racks that sit further back on the bike as well as bags that have cutouts for your heel if necessary. but in my experience it hasnt come to that.
How did you know that I would want to carry panniers? Did you see my other recent threads where I stated I was looking for a winter / touring bike?
Specifically, does any one know how the Cross - Check handles on tarmac with 23/25c tires?
dirtyphotons
i just figured if you'd be commuting on it you'd want panniers.
i have two wheelsets on mine, one with 23c road tires. with them on it feels just like a road bike, hope that heps.
i have two wheelsets on mine, one with 23c road tires. with them on it feels just like a road bike, hope that heps.
dpr
I didnt say I would be commuting either, but thanks all the same! :) I will occasionally be doing short touring trips on it, but 95% of its use will be for rainy day training rides.
el-cid
That's the standard built-bike Crosscheck from Surly. If you have a local bike shop they should be able to get you the same built bike for the same price.
Brian
I didnt say I would be commuting either, but thanks all the same! :) I will occasionally be doing short touring trips on it, but 95% of its use will be for rainy day training rides.
I looked at the Surly, but chose a different bike instead. My Fantom Cross arrived today.
I looked at the Surly, but chose a different bike instead. My Fantom Cross arrived today.
slopvehicle
At the risk of sounding like an anti-capitalist, free-market hating snob, I can't help but feel like this cheapens Surly's brand. Yeah, the Motobecanes / Windsors / etc are decent enough budget frames. But there's no real company behind those designs-- they're the average stuff from China / Taiwan manufacturer catalogs.
While it's true that Surly's stuff is made in Asia (and, from what I've gathered, under ethically accountable conditions... is that also true for BikesDirect?), the designs aren't generic crap. They're the work of riders, of people actually spending time with the products and trying to push the envelope to make a little money go a long way in terms of functionality. Look at the Pugsley, the Karate Monkey, the Steamroller... all pioneers, more-or-less, in their class. Is putting those frames on the same page as a bunch of generic BikesDirect crud really doing justice to their designs? The hard work of those that designed and spec'd the frames?
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc. Thankfully BikesDirect can't undersell your LBS, or less-shady online retailers that sell Surly.
While it's true that Surly's stuff is made in Asia (and, from what I've gathered, under ethically accountable conditions... is that also true for BikesDirect?), the designs aren't generic crap. They're the work of riders, of people actually spending time with the products and trying to push the envelope to make a little money go a long way in terms of functionality. Look at the Pugsley, the Karate Monkey, the Steamroller... all pioneers, more-or-less, in their class. Is putting those frames on the same page as a bunch of generic BikesDirect crud really doing justice to their designs? The hard work of those that designed and spec'd the frames?
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc. Thankfully BikesDirect can't undersell your LBS, or less-shady online retailers that sell Surly.
Brian
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc.
That's rather ridiculous. What brands do you own?
That's rather ridiculous. What brands do you own?
nowheels
At the risk of sounding like an anti-capitalist, free-market hating snob, I can't help but feel like this cheapens Surly's brand. Yeah, the Motobecanes / Windsors / etc are decent enough budget frames. But there's no real company behind those designs-- they're the average stuff from China / Taiwan manufacturer catalogs.
While it's true that Surly's stuff is made in Asia (and, from what I've gathered, under ethically accountable conditions... is that also true for BikesDirect?), the designs aren't generic crap. They're the work of riders, of people actually spending time with the products and trying to push the envelope to make a little money go a long way in terms of functionality. Look at the Pugsley, the Karate Monkey, the Steamroller... all pioneers, more-or-less, in their class. Is putting those frames on the same page as a bunch of generic BikesDirect crud really doing justice to their designs? The hard work of those that designed and spec'd the fra
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc. Thankfully BikesDirect can't undersell your LBS, or less-shady online retailers that sell Surly.
Ouch !!!!! yes the illusion has been shattered
While it's true that Surly's stuff is made in Asia (and, from what I've gathered, under ethically accountable conditions... is that also true for BikesDirect?), the designs aren't generic crap. They're the work of riders, of people actually spending time with the products and trying to push the envelope to make a little money go a long way in terms of functionality. Look at the Pugsley, the Karate Monkey, the Steamroller... all pioneers, more-or-less, in their class. Is putting those frames on the same page as a bunch of generic BikesDirect crud really doing justice to their designs? The hard work of those that designed and spec'd the fra
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc. Thankfully BikesDirect can't undersell your LBS, or less-shady online retailers that sell Surly.
Ouch !!!!! yes the illusion has been shattered
Vespa
If they were sold through LBS at a big premium to the BikesDirect price then that would be a dilution to the brand. As they are sold at the same price it just gives you a choice of where to source -I bought my CC w/o riding largely on its reputation.
Brand dilution would require same bike at variety of pricepoints or a cut-rate inferior bike badged as a Surly sold through a discounter - neither of these is happening.
Brand dilution would require same bike at variety of pricepoints or a cut-rate inferior bike badged as a Surly sold through a discounter - neither of these is happening.
MillCreek
My personal belief is that inanimate objects don't have a whole lot of heart and soul, but that is just me.
Brian
My personal belief is that inanimate objects don't have a whole lot of heart and soul, but that is just me.
I paid over $3k for a custom frame, and it has no soul.
I paid over $3k for a custom frame, and it has no soul.
yes
Do you have to be a religious literalist to argue the meaning of soul on these boards?
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "...poured his heart and soul into..."?
Seriously, what do you think was meant by "I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design..."
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "...poured his heart and soul into..."?
Seriously, what do you think was meant by "I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design..."
Brian
I bet that 99.999% of bikes today were designed by some geek at a computer. Unless you're buying a Vanilla, you're not buying anything more than the product of some CAD/modeling program.
M_S
I'm pretty sure surly makes their bikes in Taiwan as well. Surly doesn't "have soul," they have their market, just like Trek, BikesDirect, etcetera.
Brian
I wish someone at Giant could just tell me who they make frames for. I have a close friend there, but she's not going to have that info.
yes
Surly is probably manufactured by Maxway. Ironically, according to this thread, so is Dawes.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=291039&page=2
Personally, I could care less who manufactures the frame as long as it rides well and fits my needs. With Surly, you can read the blog, get an idea of their philosophy, see the frame geometry, tire clearance, email them and get a response, etc. Basically, you know what you are going to get. With Bikes Direct, it seems a bit like a surprise. I see that BD has gotten better about putting geometry up on their site. That's an improvement at least.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=291039&page=2
Personally, I could care less who manufactures the frame as long as it rides well and fits my needs. With Surly, you can read the blog, get an idea of their philosophy, see the frame geometry, tire clearance, email them and get a response, etc. Basically, you know what you are going to get. With Bikes Direct, it seems a bit like a surprise. I see that BD has gotten better about putting geometry up on their site. That's an improvement at least.
Brian
Having dealt with Mike for almost a year now, I can at least vouch for the fact that he has a genuine interest in promoting cycling, and he really does take the feedback to heart. He knows what he's doing in this business, no doubt.
slopvehicle
I'm not an "insider", so please bear with. What I know of BikesDirect is that they've used less-than-honest "shill" tactics to promote their products in this very forum. They also list bikes on eBay with very misleading descriptions-- puffing up Motobecane (for example) with quotes from 20-year old reviews of products that are barely similar. Why dress your perfectly okay entry level product with descriptions of a racing frame from two decades ago, made by what was then a completely different company, in a different factory, with different tubing and construction techniques? I'm not saying anyone's getting ripped off-- buyers still get the bike specified. But there's certainly some misleading going on.
I've never got that vibe from Surly's literature or promotion. So they seem like an odd match for BikesDirect.
I've never got that vibe from Surly's literature or promotion. So they seem like an odd match for BikesDirect.
nevlis
three cheers for capitalism
bonechilling
I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design than a neo-Motobecane / Windsor / etc. Thankfully BikesDirect can't undersell your LBS, or less-shady online retailers that sell Surly.
You do know that Keebler Elves don't really make the cookies, right?
You do know that Keebler Elves don't really make the cookies, right?
Brian
I'm not an "insider", so please bear with. What I know of BikesDirect is that they've used less-than-honest "shill" tactics to promote their products in this very forum. They also list bikes on eBay with very misleading descriptions-- puffing up Motobecane (for example) with quotes from 20-year old reviews of products that are barely similar. Why dress your perfectly okay entry level product with descriptions of a racing frame from two decades ago, made by what was then a completely different company, in a different factory, with different tubing and construction techniques? I'm not saying anyone's getting ripped off-- buyers still get the bike specified. But there's certainly some misleading going on.
I've never got that vibe from Surly's literature or promotion. So they seem like an odd match for BikesDirect.
Welcome to the world of advertising. If Motobecane was able to stay in business continuously up to today, (which they weren't) they would probably be producing what the market wants - high quality bikes that are affordable. But it appears that their model failed, while Mike seems to be doing ok.
How many bikes did Lance sell for Trek?
I've never got that vibe from Surly's literature or promotion. So they seem like an odd match for BikesDirect.
Welcome to the world of advertising. If Motobecane was able to stay in business continuously up to today, (which they weren't) they would probably be producing what the market wants - high quality bikes that are affordable. But it appears that their model failed, while Mike seems to be doing ok.
How many bikes did Lance sell for Trek?
Gromit
Seriously, what do you think was meant by "I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design..."
Well, let's just assume one could pour heart and soul into a bicycle. Will it ride better? I'll still take the "soul-less" one that performs better or one that performs as well for less money.
Well, let's just assume one could pour heart and soul into a bicycle. Will it ride better? I'll still take the "soul-less" one that performs better or one that performs as well for less money.
Brian
Well, let's just assume one could pour heart and soul into a bicycle. Will it ride better? I'll still take the "soul-less" one that performs better or one that performs as well for less money.
In all fairness, 15 years ago it was still fashionable to own a handmade Italian bike. Some people still do buy them today as well. But you are correct.
In all fairness, 15 years ago it was still fashionable to own a handmade Italian bike. Some people still do buy them today as well. But you are correct.
yes
Motobecane was in business for 60 years. I don't know how long Mike has been going, but not that long.
Bikesdirect has some screaming deals at the high end. The margins seem to be tighter at the lower end, but he still can beat an lbs on price. His advertising is over the top (borderline deceptive) and his web site is uninformative. I'm a cheap ******* who has been buying big purchases on the internet for 10 years, but last night I went with an LBS to buy a bike. The '07 model was marginally more expensive than online, and I knew what we (it was a gift) were getting.
Bikesdirect has some screaming deals at the high end. The margins seem to be tighter at the lower end, but he still can beat an lbs on price. His advertising is over the top (borderline deceptive) and his web site is uninformative. I'm a cheap ******* who has been buying big purchases on the internet for 10 years, but last night I went with an LBS to buy a bike. The '07 model was marginally more expensive than online, and I knew what we (it was a gift) were getting.
yes
Gromit,
Let's assume that one person spent lots of time and effort (some may say heart and soul) designing and testing a bike, and then describes the bike in great detail so you know what the design trade-offs were.
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
Let's assume that one person spent lots of time and effort (some may say heart and soul) designing and testing a bike, and then describes the bike in great detail so you know what the design trade-offs were.
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
raster
three beers for capitalism
fixed.
fixed.
Brian
Gromit,
Let's assume that one person spent lots of time and effort (some may say heart and soul) designing and testing a bike, and then describes the bike in great detail so you know what the design trade-offs were.
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
Some of us want a Honda, some of us want a little bit more.
Let's assume that one person spent lots of time and effort (some may say heart and soul) designing and testing a bike, and then describes the bike in great detail so you know what the design trade-offs were.
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
Some of us want a Honda, some of us want a little bit more.
sherbornpeddler
I don't know where my ID or ego are in my brain anymore than I know where the soul is in my Serotta Fierte or Lygie. I do know I spend a great deal of time riding them and feel emotional when I swing out on to the road. I really enjoy the fit of my Fierte, paid a premium price over the discount joints and on reflection would do it again. As much as we lust over the parts, alloys and polish, every bit as important is the fit and riding characteristics artfully composed by my expert LBS. Fit and hours on the saddle = heart and soul, not the discount dollar delta.
Brian
I spent $3k for a custom frame, but it's still just the experience, (riding our tandem with my wife) not the frame itself. We have almost as much fun going out on hot summer nights and riding our Electra cruisers.
mgbguy
Do you have to be a religious literalist to argue the meaning of soul on these boards?
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "...poured his heart and soul into..."?
Seriously, what do you think was meant by "I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design..."
Absolutely nothing. That sound you heard was an illusion shattering.
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "...poured his heart and soul into..."?
Seriously, what do you think was meant by "I bet many times more heart and soul went into a Surly design..."
Absolutely nothing. That sound you heard was an illusion shattering.
glenng
Back to OP topic. I paid $100 less for my Crosscheck than bikedirect @ LBS. That was not a haggle price that is what the tag stated and what everyone would pay @ my LBS. If somthing screws up on the bike I can say here ya go fix it please and they will. Support your local economy/community when you can. Buy locally if possible.
nevlis
fixed.
sorry bout that typo. i'd been drinking.
sorry bout that typo. i'd been drinking.
Gromit
Gromit,
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
First off, sorry for the delayed response, I just got back to this thread.
I think you're adding something (i.e. the second person not giving as much info to the buyer). With that added, I'd probably opt for the first bicycle and pass on second if I couldn't get information on the second bicycle from some other source. While I'm not just going to buy a bicycle because of the name or because it's more expensive, I'm not just going to buy a bicycle because it's cheaper either.
A second guy picked a stock design off the shelf, tells you it is high quality and that it is at 50% off but gives no more information.
Will the second bike perform as well for you needs? Maybe. You can always hope. I love that the guy is cutting marketing and retail costs and slashing prices. But, I don't understand why he can't be more straightforward and informative.
First off, sorry for the delayed response, I just got back to this thread.
I think you're adding something (i.e. the second person not giving as much info to the buyer). With that added, I'd probably opt for the first bicycle and pass on second if I couldn't get information on the second bicycle from some other source. While I'm not just going to buy a bicycle because of the name or because it's more expensive, I'm not just going to buy a bicycle because it's cheaper either.
yes
I would say that BD lacks info (is the second person). Take the Grand Record as an example.
See the geometry chart: http://motobecane.com/7005db_geometry.html
There is no head tube height. The brakes are Tektro, but it doesn't say if they are long reach or short. It doesn't say what tires fit. It also doesn't give the spacer stack, so, you really don't know how relaxed or aggressive the fit is, and you don't know if you can fit some 28s or 32s in there.
For the cross check, Mike took the geometry chart from Surly's site, and took out most of the useful info and published the least useful bit. Then, he doesn't link to the manufacturer's site.
You can get a pretty good deal at gvh bikes or probikekit. GVH, Surly, or your LBS can and will give you all the info you want. I'm sure that the quality of Mikes bikes are great and that the manufacturing is good. But the service doesn't compare, and some very pertinent information is just missing.
See the geometry chart: http://motobecane.com/7005db_geometry.html
There is no head tube height. The brakes are Tektro, but it doesn't say if they are long reach or short. It doesn't say what tires fit. It also doesn't give the spacer stack, so, you really don't know how relaxed or aggressive the fit is, and you don't know if you can fit some 28s or 32s in there.
For the cross check, Mike took the geometry chart from Surly's site, and took out most of the useful info and published the least useful bit. Then, he doesn't link to the manufacturer's site.
You can get a pretty good deal at gvh bikes or probikekit. GVH, Surly, or your LBS can and will give you all the info you want. I'm sure that the quality of Mikes bikes are great and that the manufacturing is good. But the service doesn't compare, and some very pertinent information is just missing.
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