Commuting - Help Me with a Witty Retort

Some bozo on our place of work's electronic builiten board at work complained about how 99% of the cyclist commuters coming to work here run a red light nearby our lab's entrance. I responded:

> That light won't change if you approach it on your bike.
>
> Keep in mind that the cyclist who runs a light or stop sign only endangers
> himself, unlike the driver of a 4000 pound car.

He replied:
"hmmm... a 150+lb person + bicycle hits the front of your car and could
possibly go through your windshield causing you serious harm. Plus,
let's not forget about the emotional damage of seriously hurting or
killing of another human being. Oh, and let's not forget about the
greedy family of the injured/deceased who will probably try to sue you
because you were going 36 in a 35 (or pick your favorite detail) and
will at least get nuisance money."

Yeah, it ticks you off, too, I'm sure. 150# vs. 4000? Give me a break. Any help with a witty retort?

I was thinking something like:
With this logic, prison immates need counselors to deal with their emotional damage of hurting someone else.

I think I'm close, but it's really not that good.

Any thoughts?

What percentage stop fully before proceeding on a light that won't get triggered by bicycle?

What percent stop and wait for green when there is a motor vehicle that has triggered the sensor?

How many cyclists have written a request to have the sensor tuned so it can be triggered by aluminum bicycle wheels?

The only argument you can logically make and backed by law is that the light sensor does not trigger for bicycles - and that is only if cyclist fully stops and then only proceeds when clear. Every other 'argument' is an excuse.

Al

How about, "Dude, stop the stress, you won't hit me as I'll just bunnyhop your Geo Metro."

?

That said, don't pick a fight with someone on a work board. I knew someone that did that and it turned out to be a guy a few rungs up directly from him on the company ladder.

Also, "running" lights is absolutely dumb. I'm assuming that running=reckless. A safe approach and continuing is a different subject. Maybe re-direct it that way?

Best to ignore them, like DataSystems.

WHy not get the light fixed? Then, after it is fixed, hopefully you can get a cop to write some tickets to the stop light runners.

"Jerkstore!" Go w/Jerkstore!

Some bozo on our place of work's electronic builiten board at work complained about how 99% of the cyclist commuters coming to work here run a red light nearby our lab's entrance. I responded:

> That light won't change if you approach it on your bike.
>
> Keep in mind that the cyclist who runs a light or stop sign only endangers
> himself, unlike the driver of a 4000 pound car.

He replied:
"hmmm... a 150+lb person + bicycle hits the front of your car and could
possibly go through your windshield causing you serious harm. Plus,
let's not forget about the emotional damage of seriously hurting or
killing of another human being. Oh, and let's not forget about the
greedy family of the injured/deceased who will probably try to sue you
because you were going 36 in a 35 (or pick your favorite detail) and
will at least get nuisance money."

Yeah, it ticks you off, too, I'm sure. 150# vs. 4000? Give me a break. Any help with a witty retort?

I was thinking something like:
With this logic, prison immates need counselors to deal with their emotional damage of hurting someone else.

I think I'm close, but it's really not that good.

Any thoughts?

I'd simply respond by asking him to find one instance of a cyclist killing a driver when there are ~700+ cyclists that die each year in accidents.

As to lawsuits, if they are without merit a judge can dismiss it anytime.

As to high damages vs greed, ask him how he'd feel if a FedEx driver, driving 36 in a 35, but not paying attention, ran over and killed his kid/wife/father who was crossing the street. The simple truth is that the overwhelming majority of big ticket successful lawsuits like he mentions have standing.

Civil suits are not just for compensation they are also for punitive reasons, and it can take a big judgement to punish effectively.


Unfortunately, I'm not witty. If that's what you really need, I agree...go with jerkstore.

Witty response A:
Go *BEEP* yourself

Witty response B:
Your mom doesn't seem to mind when I run her red light.

How about, "Dude, stop the stress, you won't hit me as I'll just bunnyhop your Geo Metro."

?

That said, don't pick a fight with someone on a work board. I knew someone that did that and it turned out to be a guy a few rungs up directly from him on the company ladder.

Also, "running" lights is absolutely dumb. I'm assuming that running=reckless. A safe approach and continuing is a different subject. Maybe re-direct it that way?

If you approach a light day in day out that doesn't respond, you will, no matter how good a citizen you are, manage your way through as best you can. Obviously, I wait when cars are in front of me, so the only problem is when I get there first, which seems to happen about half the time.

I suppose I should call the city, but I haven't.

This guy isn't "up the ladder." Besides, I don't want to pick a fight--I just want to give his comments some perspective, in a light hearted way.

"Jerkstore!" Go w/Jerkstore!

Took my answer... ;)

I don't stop for reds when there's no traffic, but a driver swerving to miss a red light running cyclist could easily get hurt or killed, so don't kid yourself.

Anyhoo, My witty retort is don't waste your time in a pissing match and enjoy riding your bike. I swear my partner can't get on a bike without getting into it with somebody and it doesn't look like fun to me. I ride my bike, I get there first and happiest and that's good enough for me. You're not going to change anyone's behaviour but your own, so don't waste your time.

If you approach a light day in day out that doesn't respond, you will, no matter how good a citizen you are, manage your way through as best you can. Obviously, I wait when cars are in front of me, so the only problem is when I get there first, which seems to happen about half the time.


FYI, I wasn't passing judgement on ya. I do it all the time. It's just that people have different meanings for different words.

If I'm in the middle of nowhere with visibility for a mile where I can see cars, animals, kids, whatever and NO ONE is around, of course I wouldn't stop.

How about this... equate what you're doing to what many drivers do at stop signs, "rolling stops"?

1. When did you decide to become the traffic nanny, wagging your finger at me. Grow up.

2. Who died and made you a crossing guard?

3. And you've never run a red li9ght or blown a stop sign, right.

4. Mind your own business, is your life so pitiful you have nothing better to do than complain about cyclists.

5. Why do you hate cyclists?

6. Race ya, fatboy.

1. When did you decide to become the traffic nanny, wagging your finger at me. Grow up.

2. Who died and made you a crossing guard?

3. And you've never run a red li9ght or blown a stop sign, right.

4. Mind your own business, is your life so pitiful you have nothing better to do than complain about cyclists.

5. Why do you hate cyclists?

6. Race ya, fatboy.

Excellent!


I do like "Jerkstore!" too.

How about with #5, modify it to the recent stand-by... "Why do you hate freedom?"

I'd simply respond by asking him to find one instance of a cyclist killing a driver when there are ~700+ cyclists that die each year in accidents.

As to lawsuits, if they are without merit a judge can dismiss it anytime.

As to high damages vs greed, ask him how he'd feel if a FedEx driver, driving 36 in a 35, but not paying attention, ran over and killed his kid/wife/father who was crossing the street. The simple truth is that the overwhelming majority of big ticket successful lawsuits like he mentions have standing.

Civil suits are not just for compensation they are also for punitive reasons, and it can take a big judgement to punish effectively.


Unfortunately, I'm not witty. If that's what you really need, I agree...go with jerkstore.


Good post. What's with "jerkstore?" I want to laugh with you, but it's going right over my head. :o

Number 6!!!!

Race ya, fatboy.

+2

"Jerkstore!" Go w/Jerkstore!

"Oh, yeah! Well, I've been sleeping with your wife!"

Good post. What's with "jerkstore?" I want to laugh with you, but it's going right over my head. :o

Seinfeld episode where George obsesses on a clever response to a co-worker's remark.:p

Dude, the initial response was the time to be witty. Do not engage this moron, it's a troll.

At this point you have one choice. It's Jerk store, or nothing.

Jerk store would be truly funny.

Post a pic of the guy stopped in the crosswalk at that light, with a subtitle of "Look who can't obey the law"

You can't win this pissing match, and have probably already made things worse by what you have said. Just walk away from it.

You should have just said the thing about the light not changing for bicycles. Your other arguments are weak.

I would respond by saying that the other guy is right about the safety of running red lights on a bike, it is dangerous, but the light won't change for bikes, so they have to run it.

Jerkstore is tempting.

Does the light not trigger even if you lay your bike more horizontally over a corner of the sensor?

(NB: if your bike is carbon, never mind)

The best part about 'Jerkstore" is you can always follow it up with "I had sex with your wife!!!!"* if it doesn't work.

*Don't use if the guy's wife is in a coma.

"Thank you for the kind observation. I shall endeavor always to stop there myself, thereby encouraging other cyclists to do likewise."

"Go fill your tank!"

my guess is a fair number of drivers run the same light. Stake out the light one day with a video camera and catch at least 5 or 6 cars running it. Cut it together, post it on u-tube and send him the link.

I think you should just leave this one alone. Your co-workers will thank you.

It's not fun watching two people try to out-jerk-store each other (especially, if they are not very good at it.) ;)

"Thank you for the kind observation. I shall endeavor always to stop there myself, thereby encouraging other cyclists to do likewise."

+1

And I would continue, We have started a campaign to install a better traffic light that will recognize bicyclist. The minimun donation is $100.00 . Your help would be appreciate it. (include instructions on where to send the money)....Three things might happen:
1. No one will bother to write about this anymore.
2. Some one will send you money, and if its less than $200 have a nice dinner on the donor
3. If you receive more when you get close to $3,000.00 start chosing your dream bike !!! :D :D :D

Let it alone. You can't improve the inborn animosity of cagers toward cyclists which is the 'bozo's' unstated message. No number of rapier-like repartees [or bullet-proof logic for that matter] will do anything but increase the resentment towards THE REST of us.

Bottom line, the 'bozo' is technically right in enough cases to have the high ground on this one.

Instead, spend some time crafting a clever [but not too clever, mind] and positive bulletin board message about cycle commuting and welcoming those who might be thinking about it. [Yeah, I know. . .this is at odds with my usual cynical tone, but it's exactly how I'd handle it.]

I would point out that it is ironic that in his posting complaining about the "illegal" acts of others he makes it plain the he himself cannot follow the basic rules of motor vehicle operation. In the startling and chilling phrase " because you were going 36 in a 35 (or pick your favorite detail)" we see the true, cold heart of the matter. This person is so deranged behind the wheel that, were he to be involved in an accident he knows that the egregious style (speeding et.al.) in which he drives leaves him open to a litany of legal actions the likes of which must keep him up at night. I would point out that by revealing his fears about the destruction and mayhem he despicable style of driving on a public forum he has in fact provided valuable evidence for his future victims lawyers to bring those civil actions against him. In effect he has brought his own worst fears to life by lashing out at others. And I would wrap it up with the afore mentioned "Jerkstore"

Where's the transport infrastructure for cyclists? Where's consideration in the law and the rules for cyclists? Where's indication that design decisions take cyclists into account?

Considering the danger a cyclist puts themselves in the moment they get on the road in the US, where's the disincentive for running lights?

Tell you what, if you have to go through the same amount of effort, inconvenience, and energy waste every time you stop, you'd blow through a lot more reds. Moving your right foot down a couple of inches doesn't compare, you fat ****.

Society thinks I'm invisible. Ok then, who am I to argue?

I'll stop at the red light when it's a red light for bicycles.

(btw you'll never win the guy over. A tool with a bone to pick is a tool with a bone to pick. Tell him to get t.f. to Holland if he wants to gain some perspective and learn a little.)

If you approach a light day in day out that doesn't respond, you will, no matter how good a citizen you are, manage your way through as best you can. Obviously, I wait when cars are in front of me, so the only problem is when I get there first, which seems to happen about half the time.


I won't help you with getting into an on-line fight but I will help you with the light. Often, people who say they can't trigger a light don't know how. I can trigger just about any light out there...as long as I know where the sensor is. It's actually a pretty cool trick that'll amaze your friends...and give you ammunition in a lawsuit when the Bozo runs the light and plows into you:eek:

You need to understand the induction loop that's in the pavement that triggers most lights. For that go read this (http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/port/2945/Traffic/TrafficSensors.htm). You need to ride with your wheel over the wire buried in the pavement for as long as you possibly can. If the road has been paved recently, it's much tougher to trigger but you might have luck by following the right hand tire track in the road. The loops are usually buried there.

Read it. Try it. It works and it's much safer then running lights.

"I totally agree with you. In fact, a collision with ra ed light-running cyclist is much more of a danger to me on my bike than to you in your car. However, that light will not trigger when approached by a bike, so I can understand why some people just get frustrated and go."

Paul

Challenge the person to wait near any given stop sign when there's no cross traffic and find ONE car that actually stops. Bet it's not more than 1 in 50.

As far as I'm concerned, if the light is broken such that it doesn't change for bikes, the argument is done. You're pretty much required to run red lights. Even cars faced with that situation are allowed to treat the intersection as a 4-way stop.

I suppose one interesting thing to dream about, if it were ever to happen, would be if you were first in line at the light, and he was behind you. You could just sit there for 10 minutes, yelling back "I'm waiting for the light to change, I'm sure you will too!"

"Don't like me running the light?"
"Then you need to fix it so the sensor will trip for a bicycle. Then it will be functioning properly, and you will have to find some other baseless thing to whine about."

So... it's ok for cars to break the law by going 36 in 35, but not ok for bikes to "breakl the law" by moving through a light that will not function for them?

"Don't you have something worthwhile to do besides worrying about bicycles? Think green, ONE LESS CAR"

if that didn't work, I like some of the pithy comments posted before me.... of course calling him a jerknozzle might work... sorry he sounds like a first rate assclown and reason might just escape him since you arleady tried it.... sorry..

I won't help you with getting into an on-line fight but I will help you with the light. Often, people who say they can't trigger a light don't know how. I can trigger just about any light out there...as long as I know where the sensor is. It's actually a pretty cool trick that'll amaze your friends...and give you ammunition in a lawsuit when the Bozo runs the light and plows into you:eek:

You need to understand the induction loop that's in the pavement that triggers most lights. For that go read this (http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/port/2945/Traffic/TrafficSensors.htm). You need to ride with your wheel over the wire buried in the pavement for as long as you possibly can. If the road has been paved recently, it's much tougher to trigger but you might have luck by following the right hand tire track in the road. The loops are usually buried there.

Read it. Try it. It works and it's much safer then running lights.

Though cars are much bigger, we have an advantage. We can get the metal in our vehicles much closer to the sensors. Straddle your bike and lay it down on the sweet spot. Almost always works. Around here, just standing on the sensor even with a full steel bike does not seem to work.

Around here just putting an aluminum front wheel directly over the a sensor wire is enough to trigger the lights. When attached to my bike it triggers 90% of the lights I've tried.

One thing that can make it seem like the bike is not triggering the light is that if you are the only vehicle it may take 3 or more minutes until the light changes after being triggered - all the while you are wondering if you have actually triggered it or not. If there are more vehicles in line that can cut down on the light cycle timing - depending how the on-demand light is programed to deliver service. If you note that there are a series of sensors leading up to the stop line instead of just one right before the line, then the light program may very well use volume of vehicles waiting to affect timing.

One day put the bike in the ideal place right over the sensor wire (the middle one if a dipole sensor - see cyccommutes post above) and wait a long time and see if it really does not work for bicycles. If it doesn't then put you efforts into contacting those reponsible for setting up the sensors. It may take a bit to find who those folks are, but not much more time that it takes reading this thread and coming up with witty responses.

Al