Okay, winter has socked me in here in Montreal with more snow a couple weeks early from the great (but chilly) early December rides I got the past couple of years. No, I don't ride except when it's dry.
I'm *done* with my old Bodyguard 855 flywheel stationary monster...I have an old knee injury to deal with (surgery 3 yrs ago). With the direct gearing, I can't sustain an hour without swelling and pain like I've just done a century on my VR50 (ok, so I've only done a 130km ride on it so far, but it was sweet. ;-)
I've seen these trainers advertised that you bolt to your rear axle and roll the rear wheel (well, tire) against.
1. Do you get anything close to the same pedal forces for an equivalent cardio effort as riding on the road? This is the most important point for me - I want to be able to get into the effort zone without burning out my knee.
2. Is there a trainer model or type that works best with bents? I see the CycleOps Fluid2 sold at Hostel Shoppe - any comments about that line? Air versus hydraulic?
3. On the off chance that someone here might know of a stationary bent that has some miraculous gearing/tension system that would give something akin to what I've described above - does anyone?
Trsnrtr
12-02-07, 07:56 AM
I ride rollers with my Fujin. ;)
IaMichael
12-02-07, 12:54 PM
I've been using the cycleops magneto the last few winters and like it. I just added a block under the front tire of my Sun EZ Sport CX to 'even' things out. With this setup, I can spin in front of the TV or read a book :-)
mazpr
12-02-07, 01:10 PM
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363478
The above thread has some options to choose from, once again I highly DO NOT recommend the Blackburn.
Power transition is not gradual at all, sometimes is super easy and five seconds later its extremelt tough to pedal.
Good Luck
By the way here is a video to keep you motivated.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid770191396/bclid958657494/bctid1078601973
YIPPEE KA YEE!
BentriderMtl
12-02-07, 02:21 PM
Great, thanks for the input.
I'm going to head over to that trainer thread, but so far, I'm not impressed with all the comments about fluid leakage on the Cycleops Fluid2. There's a Kinetic Road machine at one of our best bike shops here in Montreal - http://www.abccycles.com/products.php?tc=&tsc=2646&m=&cat=1136&idx=5&num=1
And the thought of having to ship back and forth for service...for any defects...offsets any potential savings on the initial purchase price.
STEEKER
12-02-07, 03:00 PM
I am looking myself for a trainer , I don't wantroad salt near my bike , I was thinking of the CycleOps Fluid2 and that was the model that peeps recomended but now I have been hearing things about it leaking . maybe I might just get rollers instead ( rollers are cheaper ) is there a certain type of rollers for a SWB bent or do the standered ones fit ???
Trsnrtr
12-02-07, 03:35 PM
Imaybe I might just get rollers instead ( rollers are cheaper ) is there a certain type of rollers for a SWB bent or do the standered ones fit ???
I had to lengthen my rollers to fit my Fujin and my VK2. If I recall, even my V-Rex wouldn't fit a standard set of rollers , but I may be wrong.
Fair warning, rollers and bents are not for the faint of heart.
dgholmes59
12-02-07, 07:08 PM
I just bought the Kinetic Road Machine based much reading. I have used mine three times this week and love it. I see now why everyone rated its so high. The resistance curve matches outside riding pretty closely. It is just a little tougher. Mine came also with a Spinervals DVD.
What I really like about it is being able to change resistance just by shifting gears on your bike. Just like outside. The second thing I like is how closely the resistance curve matches outside riding. I would definitely recommend it.
I also installed a Cateye Astrale computer so I would have a rear speed sensor and cadence on the trainer.
I was about to buy the 1UP trainer until I read the review by jberenyi on roadbikereview.com:
The more I read about the Kinetic the more I'm going for it.
Good point about a rear speed sensor..d'oh!
I have a Cateye wireless on the front wheel..never was happy with it, as I had to mount the computer half-way up the steering tiller (stem?) due to very short range - a pain to look down to read, as well as a safety issue not looking ahead. I wanted to get a wired speed/cadence, but the Cateye kit they had only had 60" of wire, looked like a very close or a bit too short fit for my Vision R-50. I suppose I should mosey over to the electronics forum, but do you have a SWB and what's the cable run like on yours, dgholmes59? Msg private if you want. Tnx.
dgholmes59
12-02-07, 08:29 PM
I have the Astrale mounted on a 2007 Bacchetta Giro large frame. The rear sensor barely reaches. I guess if I wanted to use more spacers, I could move the rear sensor forward and have more slack wire. I have about 2" slack in the rear sensor wire so I can turn the handlebars without a problem. Both sensors did not standoff far enough to be close enough to the magnets on the pedal arm or back wheel. I cut spacers from 3/4" clear hose from Ace Hardware to position the sensors off the frame more so they would be closer to the magnets. Works great and I like the way it looks.
BentriderMtl
12-02-07, 08:59 PM
Hrm...if you have or could take a couple pics of your spacer arrangement, I'd like to see them.
Giro
12-02-07, 11:32 PM
...
1. Do you get anything close to the same pedal forces for an equivalent cardio effort as riding on the road? This is the most important point for me - I want to be able to get into the effort zone without burning out my knee.
2. Is there a trainer model or type that works best with bents? I see the CycleOps Fluid2 sold at Hostel Shoppe - any comments about that line? Air versus hydraulic?
...
If you search these forums for "Kurt Kinetic" and "1Up" you will find these are generally considered the best non-virtual reality computer linked trainers in terms of low noise, realistic power curves, and quality. Fluid trainers are generally quieter than magnetic which are quieter than air. If you want a computer linked display for virtual rides or racing via the Internet, there are other companies that sell the hardware and software that you can add to a non-computerized trainer.
As for getting into the effort zone, Kurt Kinetic specifications on the Road Machine model (their basic fluid model) is it will take up to 3,000 watts. Per Bicycling Science 3rd ed page 44, the 3 second maximum recorded pedaling wattage is/was 2378 watts. For a bit longer time, Eddy Merkx maintained about 500 watts on an ergometer for about 50 minutes and Chris Boadman is estimated to have averaged about 400 watts when he set the hour record. So yes, you can get into the effort zone on a good trainer, even if you put a tandem on the trainer.
Some other threads comment that at a given effort or speed, trainers may give you more of a workout because there are no downhills and they tend to coast down faster than a bike (Kurt Kinetic does have a model with an exceptionally massive flywheel for slower coast down). Also, some comment that on a diamond frame, trainers also may not allow/encourage you to move around on the seat in the same way as riding, resulting in a more tender posterior. As we all know, this is much less an issue on a recumbent once you get it dialed in.
One bad habit I started to develop on the trainer was pulling on the handlebars when pedaling hard. As recumbent riders soon learn, you want a light touch on the handlebars even when pedaling hard. This is unlike a DF where you can pull up on the handlbars.
I've added a "turntable" (circular ball bearing track that any good hardware store should carry) under the my recumbent's front wheel when it is on the trainer. The turntable allows the handlebars to turn the front wheel easily, letting me know when I use bad recumbent pedaling technique by pulling on the handlebars as if it were a DF bike.
You will also want a fan to keep you cool, ways to keep yourself occupied (TV, music, computer, etc.), and maybe something to keep sweat from dripping on to the bike (this is more of an issue on a DF).
Finally, if you have any pets or small children around that could get into the rapidly spinning spokes, enclosing the rear wheel in some manner is advisable.
BentriderMtl
12-03-07, 12:58 AM
Giro: Thanks.
I'm pretty well settled on the Kinetic Road Machine, seems like the best solution. Love the idea of the Pro, but I think the Road will do me fine.
As for the effort, as long as the trainer isn't giving a resistance much higher than the road would at an equivalent speed outside, I'll be happy.
To give you an idea of how bad the stationary bike's gearing is (it's simply atrocious), at 80 rpm cadence, with resistance sufficient to put me about half way into my target zone, the pedal force much higher than when I'm going 35-40km/hr (er, 22-25mph-ish) on my 'bent on level ground, i.e, max effort, pushing all out. So I can barely get an hour's cardio in, and my wonky knee is fried.
Okay on the other details; I don't pull much on the bars (I have OSS), even under high exertion, but I'll see about the turntable. Are you using USS? I'd pull on what passes for them while on recumbent stationary bikes at the gym.
Fan, check. Been doing that for years when on the stationary. Who likes to soak the floor or bike? (Another reason to avoid gyms...besides the lineups).
TV/dvd, check (those spinning dvds sound interesting, especially the scenic travel ones).
Mp3 player, check.
I had sort of thought about my cats...one is particularly curious...I'll have to put a fairing on! That long chain is mesmerizing, just hope that it doesn't attract them. Ideally a separate room instead of the corner of the living room, but I don't happen to have a spare room lying around, unfortunately ;)
Next step: let's see if my local store has a KK in stock tomorrow. Er, later today...
dgholmes59
12-03-07, 04:21 AM
BentriderMtl (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=14505), I will try to get some pictures. I have been meaning to do this anyway and post them on the bacchetta forum.
I was considering the 1UP for the larger resistance curve. After using the Kurt, the greater resistance curve on the 1up would have not been used. I cannot even get my Kurt to 30 mph. If I could, I could not hold it there long.
Something I forgot to mention, the Kurt has a very wide platform which makes it very stable.
I was surprised that the same speed on the Kurt was just a little more effort than riding outside. The resistance curve is very close.
Giro
12-03-07, 03:59 PM
[QUOTE=BentriderMtl;5735274]... Are you using USS? I'd pull on what passes for them while on recumbent stationary bikes at the gym. ...[/QUOTE
My recumbent uses Over Seat Stearing.
While Kurt Kinetic sells a cyclocomputer that can display watts (current, average & peak), the Kurt Kinetic site also give the forumula this device uses. This means you could use any cyclocomputer with long enough leads or wireless range on your rear wheel to see how many watts you produce. One easy method is make a table in a spreadsheet for the range of interest and then read from the printed table.
Depending upon how many old smooth tires you have and possibly your noise tolerance, you might want to consider a dedicated trainer tire. If so, Continental's Ultrasport Hometrainer tire is available. Search these forums for "Hometrainer" for more info. Most people find this tire a challenge to mount on the wheel rim, so you will either want to do this only once per winter or get a dedicated rear wheel & cog set. The rim can be a heavy, low cost one (even steel) since it just adds flywheel and braking when wet is not an issue. If you have rear disc brakes, you do not need to get another disk providing you put something between the brake calipers in the event you apply the rear brake.
BentriderMtl
12-03-07, 06:42 PM
Hrm... my R-50 came with Primo racer skins, ones that I soon took off because I kept getting flats (too much sharp gravel etc. on the paved paths in Montreal, and crappy roads).
So I put on Schwalbe Marathons (with Kevlar belts). I just remember the Primo's being a real tight fit, but at this point, getting the trainer up and running along with a working rear wheel speed indication will be enough. At least the Primo's have almost no tread to speak of.
How many hours of trainer time do you typically get with a skin tire?
lowracer1
12-07-07, 10:26 AM
I'm using the Tacx i-magic virtual trainer. Got it pretty cheap on ebay few years ago. I've got it set up on the optima baron. Because of the steering unit in front, I had to modify the original length of the trainer by a bit. just some short pieces of pipe.
geez, looks like I need to dust off the steering frame. anyone got a swiffer pad?
kermit4161
12-08-07, 12:26 PM
I just bought a CycleOps Fluid2 and love it. I was concerned about all of the bad reviews in regards to leaking on Mtbr.com, but then noticed that most of those bad reviews were a couple of years old...
I'm now looking for some way to measure out my 'mileage' while riding. I tried a Specialized wireless computer... but it couldn't be more than 24" away from the sensor... and I couldn't figure out how to mount the sensor to get it close enough to the spokes...
Does anyone know of a solution? I'd really like to keep track of my mileage over the winter if possible.
Thanks
trailwarrior
12-08-07, 10:42 PM
I'm pretty well settled on the Kinetic Road Machine, seems like the best solution. Love the idea of the Pro, but I think the Road will do me fine.BentriderMtl,
I have had my Road Machine for a couple of years and it still works great. Best of all, it works with just about any sort of cycle including trikes and handcycles.