Advocacy & Safety - Treating a red light like a stop sign

I recall reading somewhere (I thought it was here), someone saying that if you're at a red light (whether in a car or on a bike), and it doesn't turn green within a reasonable time, you can treat the light as if it were a stop sign. Can someone quote chapter and verse on this?

I have done a good deal of searching in the New York state vehicle code (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=128), but have found nothing.

Has anyone heard of such a law? Does it apply to your state? And what is meant by a "reasonable" time?

Thanks!
Obscure Reference Man

as far as I know it depends on your area's laws but usually when you find it legal is at sensor controlled lights only.

If it is a senor controlled light, and your bike will not trip the sensor, then the theory is that it is a "disfunction/malfunctioning" signal. Most vehicle codes have language that you treat such as a stop sign. Since your bike is a vehicle and the signal does not work for your vehicle, it is disfunctional for you even if it does work for motor vehicles.

I think it's a reasonable argument, but that's not garrantee that you wouldn't lose in court. However, I personally do this on my regular commute, where I know for a fact which lights will not change for me.

Call a local police department. They may have an idea for you. I have an idea for you but don't think that this makes it legal. Once you have pulled up to a stop light and you have sat there for a minute or two (preferrably the lesser amount) look as far as you can see in all directions to see if there are any head lights. If so wait or go to the right and make a u turn or so. If not run it. I work for law enforcement and wouldn't pull anyone over for it. I would say even if it's sensored you on your bike aren't going to set it off. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Around here there is actually a specific clause in the law that deals with non-resposive traffic lights. Generally if you get one that doesn't respond, normal give way rules apply (i.e. you give way to traffic proceeding on green, then go when it's clear). Of course, they don't actually specify how long one has to wait for a light to change in order to determine whether or not it's non functional.

If the signal needs to be 'tripped' by a magnetic detector loop, you're much better off with a steel frame bicycle than an aluminum frame. The best position is near the edge of the loop -- Portland actually tests the loop sensitivity and marks the most sensitive spot with a bicycle stencil on the pavement; with an aluminum frame, your botton bracket probably has the most steel closest to the detector loop, and your freewheel is probably second.

BTW--I remember detector loops in NY in the mid-70s that even a VW didn't have enough steel to set off, but I think the detector loops are much more sensitive nowadays.

I don't know the specific citation, but I think that Idaho law legally allows cyclists to treat a stop sign as a yield and a red light as a stop. The Idaho statute could probably be researched on the internet, if you're interested.

Originally posted by randya
I don't know the specific citation, but I think that Idaho law legally allows cyclists to treat a stop sign as a yield and a red light as a stop. The Idaho statute could probably be researched on the internet, if you're interested.

I'd say it's the same or similar to our law - if the sensor doesn't respond to you, you can proceed through after ensuring that you won't cause a collision.

Unfortunately, California law is a bit vague, but many cyclists have successfully argued that a loop sensor which fails to respond to bicycles renders a traffic light inoperative. Although I treat nonresponsive signals this way, I also make it a point to report them to the appropriate governmental agency, and to keep a record of these reports as potential courthouse ammunition. In my own city of 60,000, I have actually gotten Traffic Engineering to make several loop detectors bicycle-sensitive.

One other point -- one often needs to remain in place over a loop detector to obtain a green light instead of an aborted all-red cycle, which sometimes results from moving ahead after successfully initiating the trip.

>>>>>I have done a good deal of searching in the New York state vehicle code (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=128), but have found nothing<<<<<

You might be able to cut through red lights in upstate New York but don't even try that in New York City. You'll see cyclist running red lights all the time but if you get caught, here's the panalty.

1st offense $100.00 plus $30.00 surcharge
2nd offense $200.00 plus $30.00 surcharge
3rd offense $500.00 plus $30.00 surcharge

I'm sure the same is true for Upstate New York.

FYI ... I found this site providing links to state sites for bicycle laws.

http://www.bicycledriving.com/trafficlaw.htm#appendix

Here in Indiana it appears you can proceed with caution if the device exhibits "no indication or conflicting indications". Does that mean if it never changes you are okay to proceed? I don't know.

Did notice something interesting ... ALL bicycles required to have a bell, horn, etc. How many of you have those bells? Ding! Ding!

Originally posted by oldillini
Here in Indiana it appears you can proceed with caution if the device exhibits "no indication or conflicting indications". Does that mean if it never changes you are okay to proceed? I don't know.

"Never changes" sounds like no indication to me. I have no idea what they mean by "confliciting indications". I guess it still leaves the same question of interpretation of how long one has to wait before determining that the signal offers no indication.

There are a couple in my regular ride to work (and one or two other regular rides) that I *know* don't work, so I generally wait only as long as it takes the traffic on green to pass. However, if I'm riding at 4.30am, and end up scooting straight through those lights when there's no traffic around, I wonder how a police officer or judge would view that?

oldillini,

Thanks for that link! I've added it to my favs.

Usually if the light isn't changing, and there is no traffic, there won't be a cop around to write you a ticket.