Wow!! I wanted the Evoke or RT700 frameset but the price on the Botthechia frame is killer too! I may have to go with that one for the sake of saving a few bucks. (whih will bode better with the wife! hehe!)

Thanks Mike!

Maybe Mike is pissed at me even though I defend him when all the BF Commies attack his Capitalist Hero self. All because I called his bikes Pacific Rim Crap. But I need the Rim Crap in my garage. It's cool. It's priced right. It's the Econo-Schwag.

A little Pcad duct tape on that Ti Fly and it will be indistinguishable from a Merlin. And probably lighter. But I can't get a rise out of Mikey. Perhaps the Pcad Amex card can get his attention.

Can anyone please explain to me the differences between the two different wheelsets being offered and what their different uses are? Thanks, I am still a noobie.

John

Maybe Mike is pissed at me even though I defend him when all the BF Commies attack his Capitalist Hero self. All because I called his bikes Pacific Rim Crap. But I need the Rim Crap in my garage. It's cool. It's priced right. It's the Econo-Schwag.


The haters can hate. No one likes Britney Spears either, yet she's sold eleventy billion CDs...

The haters can hate. No one likes Britney Spears either, yet she's sold eleventy billion CDs...

Who said I hate BD? I'm trying to buy a bike from them. I'd say the biggest insult is you comparing BD to Britney Spears.

Anyone know if the RT700 Geometry listed on Kestrel's page is the Eff TT length? Trying to still compare it to the Trek's and make up my mind. (54cm in Trek to 51 RT700 if anyone wants to help)

How much does the seat angle effect the TT length when trying to get the same hand placement on the bike?

Also, someone mentioned we're going to need to stress and retrue the tubulars out of the box? What kind of spoke wrench will we need for that?

Any help appreciated.
I checked out the specs on this, and I ride a 54 trek, I am getting the 53 rt700. I also ride a 52 Kestrel Talon, that has almost the same sizing as the 52 Talon, the rt700 has a top tube that is 0.9cm longer than the talon. I currently use a 100mm stem, if needed I can change the stem on the rt to 90mm and it will be a perfect fit for me.
BTW, I am 5 ft 8 1/2 in, I wear a 32 leg in jeans.
I would think twice about getting the 51, it may suit you, but I am definitely happier with the 53.

I am really liking the Ti SL. The geometry of the 56 suits me, the frame is beautiful, couldn't beat the price. The final factor before I order..... final weight number. wink wink ;)

Steve

I think everything is up on link page on Kestrel gallery
plus the specs include a compact SLK ISIS crank

we can not change bikes around; as our prices are based oin shipping boxed bikes

geo is postyed at www.kestrel-usa.com

RT700 is the same for 2007 and 2008 [except paint]

mike

Mike
Thanks for your reply, you didnt ignore me; I hope you wont ridicule me because of these follow -up questions: (Ghandi was tenacious too)

1. Have you looked at the new Kestrel website? The info may have been on the old one ,and I may have missed it, but now the RT700 link goes to an RT800 with Durace components. Surely you dont mean that I can expect those components!

2. BTW, we all get caught in the lingo sometimes. Does "2007" = RT700 and "2008 " = RT800? ( This seems logical but could just as likely be a false assumption for geometry on my part)

3. Ive looked at the website which shows only the RT800 which has Durace components. I cannot find the gearings.. So please: Can you confirm that the compact slk isis crank is 34/50?

Thanks for so much attention.

Mike
Thanks for your reply, you didnt ignore me; I hope you wont ridicule me because of these follow -up questions: (Ghandi was tenacious too)

1. Have you looked at the new Kestrel website? The info may have been on the old one ,and I may have missed it, but now the RT700 link goes to an RT800 with Durace components. Surely you dont mean that I can expect those components!

2. BTW, we all get caught in the lingo sometimes. Does "2007" = RT700 and "2008 " = RT800? ( This seems logical but could just as likely be a false assumption for geometry on my part)

3. Ive looked at the website which shows only the RT800 which has Durace components. I cannot find the gearings.. So please: Can you confirm that the compact slk isis crank is 34/50?

Thanks for so much attention.

Man, did you read any of the previous posts? The rt700 is the same as the rt800 except for the paint job.

The components are as listed on the link of the first post in this thread, this is a Bikes direct build, not a Kestrel build

Again, for the gearing check out the first post in this thread,

Keep coming back, but stay sober please.

Mike
Thanks for your reply, you didnt ignore me.

But ignoring those annoying potential customers is the best way to make them disappear. I do hope to get a response, but I can live with not dropping $2K with BD. I will keep trying of course. Never let it be said that Pcad didn't try hard enough to blow his money.

I think everything is up on link page on Kestrel gallery
plus the specs include a compact SLK ISIS crank

we can not change bikes around; as our prices are based oin shipping boxed bikes

geo is postyed at www.kestrel-usa.com

RT700 is the same for 2007 and 2008 [except paint]

mike

Mike
Thanks for your reply, you didnt ignore me; I hope you wont ridicule me because of these follow -up questions: (Ghandi was tenacious too)

1. Have you looked at the new Kestrel website? The info may have been on the old one ,and I may have missed it, but now the RT700 link goes to an RT800 with Durace components. Surely you dont mean that I can expect those components!

2. BTW, we all get caught in the lingo sometimes. Does "2007" = RT700 and "2008 " = RT800? ( This seems logical but could just as likely be a false assumption for geometry on my part)

3. Ive looked at the website which shows only the RT800 which has Durace components. I cannot find the gearings.. So please: Can you confirm that the compact slk isis crank is 34/50?

Thanks for so much attention.

Who said I hate BD? I'm trying to buy a bike from them. I'd say the biggest insult is you comparing BD to Britney Spears.

I didn't say you hate BD. You acknowledged that you defended Mike. There may be a some people that don't like his business model, but there are plenty more that do.


By the way, I think Mike's more of a morning/afternoon guy, rather than a night person.

Pcad,
this is his job, he should be keeping business hours only, but has spent a lot of extra time on here answering questions, if you have a legitimate query, I suggest a Pm, it may take a day or so for him to respond, but he will.

Pcad,
this is his job, he should be keeping business hours only, but has spent a lot of extra time on here answering questions, if you have a legitimate query, I suggest a Pm, it may take a day or so for him to respond, but he will.

I tried a PM, still waiting an answer, I'm sure Mike's a busy guy. I'm just busting BF balls. I'm sure I'll get an answer sooner or later. I admire Mike's business model and I think he's offering max bang for the bike weenie buck. I'm not crazy about the Motobecane and Bottecchia labels, but it's all marketing. I'd prefer bikes labeled BD, but I understand most consumers would not.

[quote=bikesdirect_com;5752037]I have these now
MORE LATE

le Champion Team Ti

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...am_ti_gallery/ (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/le_champ_team_ti_gallery/)

OMG....That looks awesome.
Initially I was just browsing, but now I'm really interested in Ti bike.
Mike or anyone who can help me ...

I would like to know what kind of geometry design for this Ti Frame. Anyother word, is the design for racing ...( i.e. Specialized Tarmac) or more like a relaxed frame design (i.e. Specialized Roubaix)?

I remembered Mike has mentioned on previous thread that it is similar to Litespeed Ti bike....Does he means its geometry or material (i.e. 3/2.5 Titanium Alloy)?

Lastly, Mike ...
you have mentioned that the le Champion Ti SL and TEAM are lighter than the Le Champion (which is around 16lb), but the frame are identical, does that mean the only reason the bike is lighter is all contribute by its components. True?


Much appreciate for the help.

I tried a PM, still waiting an answer, I'm sure Mike's a busy guy. I'm just busting BF balls. I'm sure I'll get an answer sooner or later. I admire Mike's business model and I think he's offering max bang for the bike weenie buck. I'm not crazy about the Motobecane and Bottecchia labels, but it's all marketing. I'd prefer bikes labeled BD, but I understand most consumers would not.

Speaking of busted balls, read this (http://www.industryoutsider.com/?p=230), and click on the link to see the bike of the future...

I don't mind my Motobecane, because every other bike in this town seems to say "Next". :eek:

Is the Tufo tape safe to use on the tubulars?

Man, did you read any of the previous posts? The rt700 is the same as the rt800 except for the paint job.

The components are as listed on the link of the first post in this thread, this is a Bikes direct build, not a Kestrel build

Again, for the gearing check out the first post in this thread,

Keep coming back, but stay sober please.


Ive have looked at the first post, Ive looked at its link to BD, and Ive looked at BD's its link to Kestrel gallery ...over and over for several days before i asked about the gearing on the crank. I looked at all of them several times since your reply. I dont see where the FSA SLK-K ISIS crank is described in terms of gears. I see the freewheel is 11-23, but no numbers for the crank. If you have found it, it would be very nice if could you simply tell me. (34/50?)

Irish Pat, you play into unfortunate stereotypes by implying drunkeness. I invite you to prove Im blind, but Im not drunk.

RT700 gallery
le Champion Team Ti

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/le_champ_team_ti_gallery/


That looks much better than what I expected from the first pictures of that frame. Will you get a le Champion SL version build with pictures taken before the end of the month? Also, any chance of getting an official weight on the built le Champion Team Ti?

Thanks.

Ive have looked at the first post, Ive looked at its link to BD, and Ive looked at BD's its link to Kestrel gallery ...over and over for several days before i asked about the gearing on the crank. I looked at all of them several times since your reply. I dont see where the FSA SLK-K ISIS crank is described in terms of gears. I see the freewheel is 11-23, but no numbers for the crank. If you have found it, it would be very nice if could you simply tell me. (34/50?)

Irish Pat, you play into unfortunate stereotypes by implying drunkeness. I invite you to prove Im blind, but Im not drunk.

If you look at the second last picture on the rt700 gallery, it shows the gearing, 50/34, I hope that helps.

Tufo tape is the way of the future. I would recommend the extreme. Carbon wheels work much better with the extreme than the regular tufo tape.

Also it takes about ten Min to install and you can be on the road rather than waiting for the glue.
many I know use it and race with it. much cleaner , easier install than glue.

here is a tutorial on youtube http://youtube.com/watch?v=ac_QFWLiUDE

later

Ive have looked at the first post, Ive looked at its link to BD, and Ive looked at BD's its link to Kestrel gallery ...over and over for several days before i asked about the gearing on the crank. I looked at all of them several times since your reply. I dont see where the FSA SLK-K ISIS crank is described in terms of gears. I see the freewheel is 11-23, but no numbers for the crank. If you have found it, it would be very nice if could you simply tell me. (34/50?)

Irish Pat, you play into unfortunate stereotypes by implying drunkeness. I invite you to prove Im blind, but Im not drunk.


I'll belly up to the bar for a bit.....The Kestrel's are both being offered with Compact cranks (34/50). http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/kestrel/images/rt7bike_gallery/images/rt7bike_rrwhl_fd_crnk.jpgDo you see the 50/34?????

Looks like the SLK FSA carbon crank I don't know for sure which one. If you want or are looking for a standard crank size (53/39)on the Kestrels your going to have to fork over $400 more and upgrade to a DuraAce or Sram package adn put that on your self. The only reason I know this is because I have read ever page here sober and drunk and I think I was arguing at one time to go with a standard crank option for the builds at one point.

I was going to get the RT700 but now the Ti is looking so nice and a little cheaper to get DuraAce. But the Evoke with DuraAce would be cheaper yet!!! And then the Ti Mountain bike pops in there....unfair

For geometries...

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/bikes/rt700.php

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/bikes/evoke.php

You'll see the geometry specs when you scroll down those pages. They are showing the 2008 models but somebody else here confirmed that they're the same except for the paint jobs .

It shows the 08 RT having a braze-on FD mount. I didn't pay enough attention... is this the case for the 07 as well, did anyone more attentive than me take note? :o

Edit: err, never mind, I can see in the gallery that it's a braze-on mount

That looks much better than what I expected from the first pictures of that frame. Will you get a le Champion SL version build with pictures taken before the end of the month? Also, any chance of getting an official weight on the built le Champion Team Ti?

Thanks.

So far weights on samples we built are
le Champion Ti - 17 lbs
le Champion SL Ti - 16.4 lbs
le Champion Team Ti - 16.2 lbs

These are not in smallest size - and seat is a bit heavier and more comfy than some we have used on ultra light builds. So I am happy that these are good weights for quick sport bikes. We used to call bikes like this 'club racers' -- fast but you can do a century on them without being beat to death. I really do not know if there is a generally accepted term today on this type design.

Hi

I really have not looked in detail at the nerw Kestrel site - I have been a tad short on time
But it looks like the frames will get somewhat different paint

Frames we are getting are 2007 and we have order bikes in build we will show in pictures
I think the RT700 is up on link now

You must go by our offer for specs
other than geo - which is on Kestrel site and does not change as the frame molds are the same from 2007 to 2008

I hope that helps

Mike

Mike
Thanks for your reply, you didnt ignore me; I hope you wont ridicule me because of these follow -up questions: (Ghandi was tenacious too)

1. Have you looked at the new Kestrel website? The info may have been on the old one ,and I may have missed it, but now the RT700 link goes to an RT800 with Durace components. Surely you dont mean that I can expect those components!

2. BTW, we all get caught in the lingo sometimes. Does "2007" = RT700 and "2008 " = RT800? ( This seems logical but could just as likely be a false assumption for geometry on my part)

3. Ive looked at the website which shows only the RT800 which has Durace components. I cannot find the gearings.. So please: Can you confirm that the compact slk isis crank is 34/50?

Thanks for so much attention.

But ignoring those annoying potential customers is the best way to make them disappear. I do hope to get a response, but I can live with not dropping $2K with BD. I will keep trying of course. Never let it be said that Pcad didn't try hard enough to blow his money.

Hi

I am sorry I am taking a while to answerr PMs
yesterday I got a bit sick
and there are those retail stores that I run which are getting ready for Santa stuff

anyway - I think I am up to date on PMs
and Lindsay has started a file on each item - as several of each thing has sold already
and I hope she is answering every email -- I am sure she is as she normally does that well

Office staff is trying hard to get all pictures up
and so far I am very happy with the gallery pictures
I think the le Champion Team Ti gallery looks great and shows the welds on the bike very well
I have inspected the Ti frames with a magnifying glass on every cm of each
I am very happy with them - I even like the fit of the fork to the frame every much

I hope to have the Evoke up by Tuesday

Can anyone please explain to me the differences between the two different wheelsets being offered and what their different uses are? Thanks, I am still a noobie.

John

John

If you ask - then you want clinchers
tubulars are very special wheels that take special tires
I would not suggest tubulars to anyone unless they knew to start with that they wanted them.

Tubulars glue on your rimes
in the old days we all road those
but today -- few use tubulars as modern clinchers [normal bend on tires] as so light and good

If you get carbon wheels -- I say clinchers

mike

I am really liking the Ti SL. The geometry of the 56 suits me, the frame is beautiful, couldn't beat the price. The final factor before I order..... final weight number. wink wink ;)

Steve

Steve
about 16.4 depending on your size

and can I say
I really think this bike is a keeper. I think the new le Champion Ti bikes are the do everything well & last forever race bikes that some people are looking for.

No problem Mikey. Thanks for the reply. Hopefully Pcad's move to pick up a Fly Ti hardtail will start a BD Group Buy Feeding Frenzy and you'll actually make some $ through sheer BF Volume. That Fly Ti is one schwag looking MTB, the one I've always wanted. I may upgrade the wheels later. I'll get you the deposit soon.

The Pcad Schwag Express never sleeps.

Mike, is the Fly Team butted or straight guage Ti tubing? Can't find that specified anyplace. What kind of suspension fork is that, how much travel?

So whats the deal with carbon clincher rims in general? Are there concerns of damage d/t tire wrenches? Generally less durable when riding or has that changed? The roads where I ride a pretty much all freshly paved. I think I'm in for the botecchia frame, but I am still trying to figure out if I want the carbon clinchers. I don't race, but I like to go fast, and this seems like a good price to get a set. I've been wanting new wheels anyway.

Besides I'd hate to put my Xero XR-1s on my new carbon frame. :D

Mike, is the Fly Team butted or straight guage Ti tubing? Can't find that specified anyplace. What kind of suspension fork is that, how much travel?


Spec says DB
frames I have weighed were 3 lbs even
Fork travel is 80mm - like most XC race bikes

As a note: I am researching doing a FLY 853
with the famous Reynolds tube and 100mm fork as a light comfy XC bike
{my staff thinks I'm nuts and they maybe correct}

Anyway, I wish everyone who is interested in high dollar hardtails could see and ride this FLY TEAM Ti
I am convinced it is the nicest XC hardtail ever made bar none

mike

Anyway, I wish everyone who is interested in high dollar hardtails could see and ride this FLY TEAM Ti. I am convinced it is the nicest XC hardtail ever made bar none

mike

Mike, I'm more than happy to do a review of one for you. ;)

Mike, I paid deposit for Fly Ti MTB. Order form didn't allow me to specify size, but I want an 18" frame.

This Bikes Direct Group Buy has now attained the coveted Pcad Seal of OCP Approval.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/patentcad/pcadsealcopy.jpg

Personal note to Mike: please forward my Shill Fee asap.

The Pcad Schwag Juggernaut is unstoppable.

^^^in case you didn't see it, you need to tell Lindsay what size you want in your email to her.

I'm envious that you are getting that bike. I feel like I'm missing out on two great deals (the fly ti and the Le Champ team Ti), but I'm already getting the evoke. I can't wait to see everyones pictures.

Some of those BD bikes look like some sweetass schwag. Well done Mikey. I hope you become successful enough to appear on CNBC with that hot Maria B. for an interview. I'll be watching.

Just ordered a wheelset! Now debating if I'm going to buy just a frame or a fully built RT700.

Thanks for setting this up.

I am interested in a bike for [fast] century rides and I understand that tires are the most important factor affecting compliance, shock absorption and comfort. What is the maximum tire size [width] that the Le Champ Ti frame can accept? — Thanks!

Hey Mike, are you going to post pictures of the completed lower-end Motobecane le Champions? There's no way I can justify a $2000 bike, so the basic le Champion frame would probably be my choice, but I'd love to see is assembled first.

Steve
about 16.4 depending on your size

and can I say
I really think this bike is a keeper. I think the new le Champion Ti bikes are the do everything well & last forever race bikes that some people are looking for.


Thank you very much Mike! Really appreciate the special deal and all the work you are putting in. One last question before I order. What size crank comes with the L(56) frame? I am hoping you will say 175mm.

Steve

^^^in case you didn't see it, you need to tell Lindsay what size you want in your email to her.

I'm envious that you are getting that bike. I feel like I'm missing out on two great deals (the fly ti and the Le Champ team Ti), but I'm already getting the evoke. I can't wait to see everyones pictures.

I'm glad to see someone else is going to pull the trigger on the evoke. I just think it will make a great build with Campy record components. Love the look of the red and silver. Good reveiws too.

Anyway, I wish everyone who is interested in high dollar hardtails could see and ride this FLY TEAM Ti
I am convinced it is the nicest XC hardtail ever made bar none

mike

I wish I could too! Unfortunately, I'm looking at one of the road bikes and the 50 mm tubulars. Maybe next year when you have a Ti 29er! That would be the schiz-net.;)

What is the warranty on Le Champ Ti frames?
What is the fork rake?
Should we use the Litespeed Ardennes web site for sizing?
Thanks!

Anyway, I wish everyone who is interested in high dollar hardtails could see and ride this FLY TEAM Ti
I am convinced it is the nicest XC hardtail ever made bar none



And that's why we love BF. No hype.

What is the warranty on Le Champ Ti frames?
What is the fork rake?
Should we use the Litespeed Ardennes web site for sizing?

Thanks!



Mike answered this on post #74 of this thread.
I believe that the fork was stated as having a 45mm rake...
Answered on post#84 of this thread and also in the original 40-something page thread.
You're welcome :D

If anyone wants the build kit on the Ti frame, let me know. i really just want the frame/fork.

Hey Mike.

Are these bikes going to be added to your regular site later this year or next year (for people who'd love one of your ti bikes but can't get one quite yet)?
(Say yes, pretty please?)

Well.. Im in for a frame and fork anyway. I passed on the Kestrel and went with the Bottechia instead. I wanted in on the Pedal Force group buy but didnt want to give PF any more of my money so this worked out well. Plus I got one "race" bike.. this one is a little more relaxed so it's win/win.

Anybody got a link to a headset for this frame?

one more try-

Mike is tufo extreme tubular tape safe to use on your CF tubulars?

If anyone wants the build kit on the Ti frame, let me know. i really just want the frame/fork.

Mighty generous of you.