Question to Mike on the Ti Le Champion, Your Geometry chart show a stand over height measurement, but the Ti bike TT is slanted, which part of the TT do I use as reference for this particular measurement?

Did I miss the official size chart

Did I miss the official size chart

Here's the link to the chart for the Ti road bikes. http://motobecane.com/titaniumroad_geo.html I asked about where the stand-over number is on those bikes, and Mike said it's calculated right at the bottom bracket.

The sizing chart that you have referenced does not seem to be for compact or semi-compact (sloping top tube) frames.

As far as standover, Giant recommends that the measurement be taken 30 cm (12 inches) forward of some datum that they don't rigorously define. See sketch at:

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/road/1241/29263/geometry/

The sizing chart that you have referenced does not seem to be for compact or semi-compact (sloping top tube) frames.

As far as standover, Giant recommends that the measurement be taken 30 cm (12 inches) forward of some datum that they don't rigorously define. See sketch at:

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/road/1241/29263/geometry/

The chart(the link to it is on the Holiday Offer page) appears to be one that bikesdirect adapted which I assume is why the drawing doesn't match up with the Ti road bikes.

Giant may recommend standover be measured at some other point, but the info I gave is where the standover is figured for the Moto Ti road bikes. Straight from one of Mike's posts: "Standover was not measured; I had to compute it from frame designs
So it is right at BB - [so I did not have to do too much math]."

The sizing chart that you have referenced does not seem to be for compact or semi-compact (sloping top tube) frames.

On second thought, now you have me wondering if Mike's standover numbers are calculated at the height of the ETT. 30.6 inches seems like it would be about right for a 55cm bike with a level TT; I'd expect a 53cm bike with a sloping TT to be less than that.

On second thought, now you have me wondering if Mike's standover numbers are calculated at the height of the ETT. 30.6 inches seems like it would be about right for a 55cm bike with a level TT; I'd expect a 53cm bike with a sloping TT to be less than that.


I took the image of the SL version from the gallery and measured the standover by comparing it to a known dimension, i.e., the wheelbase. I assume (right or wrong) that the frame shown is a 56 cm and has a wheelbase of 995 mm. I measured the standover just off the nose of the saddle. Result = 30.6 inches. If I knew the sizes of all the frames shown (there are 3 different sizes shown) for the base model, the SL and the Team, I could probably get you some fairly accurate numbers.

I took the image of the SL version from the gallery and measured the standover by comparing it to a known dimension, i.e., the wheelbase. I assume (right or wrong) that the frame shown is a 56 cm and has a wheelbase of 995 mm. I measured the standover just off the nose of the saddle. Result = 30.6 inches. If I knew the sizes of all the frames shown (there are 3 different sizes shown) for the base model, the SL and the Team, I could probably get you some fairly accurate numbers.

If the bikes in the galleries are the ones Mike quoted sample weights on, the Le Champion Ti would be a 53cm, the Le Champ SL Ti would be a 56cm, and the Le Champ Team Ti would be a 59cm.

I took the image of the SL version from the gallery and measured the standover by comparing it to a known dimension, i.e., the wheelbase.

I just did that with the photo of the Le Champ Ti that I printed. Assuming it's a 53cm, my measurements came out pretty close to what the chart indicates. My photo has the WB distance at around 150 mm on the photo(985mm on the actual bike) and SO near the BB at around 118mm on my photo(which would translate to about 775mm on the actual bike.) 775mm is about 30.5 inches, so taking into account some likely amount of imprecision in my measuring, the chart seems to be correct.

Mike @ BikesDirect.com, I placed an order with Lindsay a week ago but I need to change the size of the frame. Is it possible to do so by e-mailing her again?

With the following results from Competitive Cycling am I a 55 or 57 on the RT700. Some of you may think is a dumb question but some of us do not have the cycling buying experience to make a comfortable decision without some guidance. And believe me, some LBS just dont bother to help unless your are buying from them.

The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.1 - 55.6
Seat tube range c-t: 56.8 - 57.3
Top tube length: 54.9 - 55.3
Stem Length: 11.5 - 12.1
BB-Saddle Position: 72.9 - 74.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.4 - 55.0
Saddle Setback: 6.1 - 6.5
Seatpost Type: SETBACK

Remember a 55 is not always the same across different brand/model frames. I would start with the top tube length, and say your a 53 or 55. The 55 has a tt length over the fit numbers. Your standover height should be about 1.5" clearance (+- .5" )

Once you decide on the 53 or 55 the variables will/may be different
stem length
saddle setback
seatpost type


With the following results from Competitive Cycling am I a 55 or 57 on the RT700. Some of you may think is a dumb question but some of us do not have the cycling buying experience to make a comfortable decision without some guidance. And believe me, some LBS just dont bother to help unless your are buying from them.

The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 55.1 - 55.6
Seat tube range c-t: 56.8 - 57.3
Top tube length: 54.9 - 55.3
Stem Length: 11.5 - 12.1
BB-Saddle Position: 72.9 - 74.9
Saddle-Handlebar: 54.4 - 55.0
Saddle Setback: 6.1 - 6.5
Seatpost Type: SETBACK

Nils,

The other thing is make sure your measurements are right. Garbage in --> garbage out. What should be really important are the measurements on your current bike, particularly if it's already tuned for your body?

The formula's give a good baseline for sizing, but still vary from person to person, but to a smaller degree. You might have to play with the stem length. I think the seatpost is a setback, so you probably won't have to change that.

Oh yeah, I would lean toward a 53 for you if you go with a 120-130mm stem
and 55 if you want the larger size and go with possibly 90-10mm stem

Nils,

The other thing is make sure your measurements are right. Garbage in --> garbage out. What should be really important are the measurements on your current bike, particularly if it's already tuned for your body?

The formula's give a good baseline for sizing, but still vary from person to person, but to a smaller degree. You might have to play with the stem length. I think the seatpost is a setback, so you probably won't have to change that.

Oh yeah, I would lean toward a 53 for you, instead of being over, and going with a short stem.

I really appreciate your input. My current bike is a Gary Fischer Mendota size 21". This size was picked by my LBS but without any measurements. The RT700 will be my first full road ride.

I really appreciate your input. My current bike is a Gary Fischer Mendota size 21". This size was picked by my LBS but without any measurements. The RT700 will be my first full road ride.

If it's your first road bike, you might want to consider the eddy or even french fit. The competitive fit is the most aggressive fit of them all - just my $0.02.

If it's your first road bike, you might want to consider the eddy or even french fit. The competitive fit is the most aggressive fit of them all - just my $0.02.

Yeah, I'd get the 55 if I were him, but it really probably depends on how much saddle to handlebar drop he can tolerate. I'd rather end up using a slightly shorter stem with the 55 than using a lot of spacers and an up-angled stem with the 53. Height of 6'1" and a 33.5 inch cycling inseam seems a bit tall for a 53, and I've always thought the results generated by the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator errs slightly on the small side for the top tube number. I wouldn't go smaller than the 55. If I had those measurements and were buying it for me, I probably would go larger than the 55, but I don't have the flexibility I used to.

edit:
Uh oh, just saw on one of Nils' other posts that he's in his mid-40's which might make the 55 too aggressive of a fit. I think I'd get the 57 and use however short a stem is required, after all.

edit again:
I'm being wishy-washy. I think the 55 would probably be fine. There's a slight slope to the RT700 TT which is going to make the bike seem slightly larger than a traditional 55 anyway.

I would like to purchase the Kestrel RT 700 frameset but was wondering about the sizing. I used the fit calculator on Competitive Cyclist and it turned up the following numbers: (I'm 5' 8 1/2" with a 32 1/4" inseam)

The Eddy Fit
Seat tube range c-c 54.3 - 54.8
Seat tube range c-t 55.9 - 56.4
Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1
Stem length 9.8 - 10.4
BB-saddle position 73.0 - 75.0
Saddle-handlebar 52.4 - 53.0
Saddle setback 5.5 - 5.9
Seatpost SETBACK

I'm more leaning towards the Eddy Fit, so I'm thinking that the 53 cm frame would be the right choice? I currently ride a 54 cm Cannondale CAAD 7 (2004 R800) which has a 54.5 cm Top Tube, (the RT 700 TT is 54.2) so I'm thinking I should be okay with the RT 700 in a 53? I'm using a 100 mm stem right now so I think I could use that again or even use a 110 mm with the Kestrel.

For reference the French Fit gave TT length at 54.9 - 55.3 with setback post and the Competetive Fit showed TT length same as Eddy Fit but using a non-setback post. What say you fit gurus?

Just looking to get it right the first time when I order. Thanks.

I would like to purchase the Kestrel RT 700 frameset but was wondering about the sizing. I used the fit calculator on Competitive Cyclist and it turned up the following numbers: (I'm 5' 8 1/2" with a 32 1/4" inseam)

The Eddy Fit
Seat tube range c-c 54.3 - 54.8
Seat tube range c-t 55.9 - 56.4
Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1
Stem length 9.8 - 10.4
BB-saddle position 73.0 - 75.0
Saddle-handlebar 52.4 - 53.0
Saddle setback 5.5 - 5.9
Seatpost SETBACK

I'm more leaning towards the Eddy Fit, so I'm thinking that the 53 cm frame would be the right choice? I currently ride a 54 cm Cannondale CAAD 7 (2004 R800) which has a 54.5 cm Top Tube, (the RT 700 TT is 54.2) so I'm thinking I should be okay with the RT 700 in a 53? I'm using a 100 mm stem right now so I think I could use that again or even use a 110 mm with the Kestrel.

For reference the French Fit gave TT length at 54.9 - 55.3 with setback post and the Competetive Fit showed TT length same as Eddy Fit but using a non-setback post. What say you fit gurus?

Just looking to get it right the first time when I order. Thanks.

I'm not a guru, but I agree with you.

... and I've always thought the results generated by the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator errs slightly on the small side for the top tube number.

I tend to agree, CC suggested a sz51/52 tt ,for me. I went to performance and rode a 52 evoke and my knees where hitting my elbows in the drops, with a 110mm stem. Other on-line calculators suggested a bike with a 54 TT , strange. I finally settled with the 54 Evoke after riding it at a different Performance shop.
Also, I just wanted to note, my buddy who has a bike shop can't beleive these prices, the best he could do on a Evoke frameset was $1500, 1900 complete bike. I'm building mine up with Centaur, but now I wish I could get some of those carbon wheels.:D

Is there a posted weight limit on the 38mm Clincher wheels? I'm a larger rider and need to know.

I need a wheelset and these could be an option, but the strength is slightly in question. Thanks!

Thanks to anyone who back on page 8 or 9 encouraged me to go for the Bottechia. I just paid my deposit and am stoked and am gonna be in major build up parts buying mode after the xmas spending is done.

Is there a posted weight limit on the 38mm Clincher wheels? I'm a larger rider and need to know.

I need a wheelset and these could be an option, but the strength is slightly in question. Thanks!

No stated weight limit

I feel sorry for this guy on eBay, trying to sell his RT700 frameset for $1200

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-2007-Kestrel-RT700-frame-fork-57-cm-carbon-frameset_W0QQitemZ170179753845QQihZ007QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BTW, I have had some experience with Gigantex rims, as I rode a set this year, not bad rims, but not the greatest either (probably the poor wheel build that I ending up rebuilding), the ones I got were from Chucks Bicycle Discount and are almost double what Mike is charging. So I went ahead and just ordered a set of carbon clinchers for Bittersweet and another set of carbon tubulars for myself. I think I am going to take my old set and rebuild it with a Powertap sometime next season.

WW, why clinchers for your daughter and tubies for you? Just ease of use if she were to get a flat?

...I've always thought the results generated by the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator errs slightly on the small side for the top tube number.

I had the same experience with the Competitive Cyclist Fit Calculator — it indicates that I ride too large a frame.

You might want to try the fit calculator at:

http://wrenchscience.com

Navigate to ROAD and then to FIT SYSTEM. You need to register to use the calculator. I was surprised because, although it recognizes the great importance of top tube length, it recommended an even longer top tube than I currently use! Their method actually recommends a "reach" which is the [effective] top tube length + stem length, so you can mix and match to dial it in. Just subtract the stem length to find top tube (or vice versa).

Any other [better] fit calculators on the web?

I considered going to a local professional bike fitter that uses various systems and tools (Certified Fit Kit, Bicycle Fitting Systems, Serotta Sizing); however, the cost of a basic fit (with no bike, just dimensions) was about $100. :eek:

With their system, they can set up a universal frame that mimics all the dimensions of the frames offered. I would prefer to save my $ for a complete fit later after I have an actual bike to work with. The cost isn't a whole lot more but gets everything adjusted right.

Pcad doesn't need over-complicated bike fit analysis. 56 road, 18-19" MTB. Next question.

WW, why clinchers for your daughter and tubies for you? Just ease of use if she were to get a flat?

Not exactly, she is very fashion conscious, the tires need to match the bike. Do you know how hard it is to find high performance colored tubulars other than black or dark gray? She rides either Michelin P2R or Vittoria Rubino Pros, they are very easy to find in a variety of colors.

In tubulars I use Stan's No Tubes sealant, works like a charm. I do not use sealant in clinchers as tubes are cheap and easy to replace and the sealant makes patching them harder. Besides I need for her to learn how to do some of her own bike maintenance. Problem is, as a girl, when she needs something done, there are a number of guys that will do it for her.

Not exactly, she is very fashion conscious, the tires need to match the bike. Do you know how hard it is to find high performance colored tubulars other than black or dark gray? She rides either Michelin P2R or Vittoria Rubino Pros, they are very easy to find in a variety of colors.

In tubulars I use Stan's No Tubes sealant, works like a charm. I do not use sealant in clinchers as tubes are cheap and easy to replace and the sealant makes patching them harder. Besides I need for her to learn how to do some of her own bike maintenance. Problem is, as a girl, when she needs something done, there are a number of guys that will do it for her.

Vittoria Evo CX tubs are available in just about every color. They also happen to be one of the best tubular tires.

Not exactly, she is very fashion conscious, the tires need to match the bike. Do you know how hard it is to find high performance colored tubulars other than black or dark gray? She rides either Michelin P2R or Vittoria Rubino Pros, they are very easy to find in a variety of colors.

In tubulars I use Stan's No Tubes sealant, works like a charm. I do not use sealant in clinchers as tubes are cheap and easy to replace and the sealant makes patching them harder. Besides I need for her to learn how to do some of her own bike maintenance. Problem is, as a girl, when she needs something done, there are a number of guys that will do it for her.

LOL! Ain't that the truth. When I was on the side of the road unable to get my pump working, I was passed by a slew of people. I have to believe that one of them would have stopped if I were a female!:(

I don't know about these other deals, but that Fly Ti MTB looks like a better buy the more research I do. I can't find anything that's not at least double that price. Lotta velo bang for the bike weenie buck, that's for sure.

I don't know about these other deals, but that Fly Ti MTB looks like a better buy the more research I do. I can't find anything that's not at least double that price. Lotta velo bang for the bike weenie buck, that's for sure.
So let me guess, is Patentcad implying the Ti frame he's gonna get is a super, duper, excellent, best thing available in a verrry looong time, grreat buy & gonna make him (verry) happy & content- at least until the next 'buy of the century' comes along?

Vittoria Evo CX tubs are available in just about every color. They also happen to be one of the best tubular tires.

I understand that, but it easier for her to deal with clinchers.

And its easier for the boys that want to help her out.

So let me guess, is Patentcad implying the Ti frame he's gonna get is a super, duper, excellent, best thing available in a verrry looong time, grreat buy & gonna make him (verry) happy & content- at least until the next 'buy of the century' comes along?

I'm saying that the Ti frame quality won't matter as long as it doesn't snap in half in the first two years there Einstein.

+1 for Tubulars, still thinking about the evoke...so hard to resist

I'm saying that the Ti frame quality won't matter as long as it doesn't snap in half in the first two years there Einstein.
Huh?
Who mentioned anything about "quality"?
"I don't know about these other deals, but that Fly Ti MTB looks like a better buy the more research I do. I can't find anything that's not at least double that price. Lotta velo bang for the bike weenie buck, that's for sure."You're simply happy, maybe ecstatic (and letting everyone else know- repeatedly) that in your view, it seems to be a great deal/buy/catch...
Keep up the "researching" though. Supposedly it's good therapy for obsessive/compulsive/insecurity disorders.

Supposedly it's good therapy for obsessive/compulsive/insecurity disorders.

Correct.

Does this mean you're not sending me an Xmas gift? Only kidding. Clearly Pcad buys himself Xmas gifts. If you'll excuse me my GiveOSiht Meter appears to have dead batteries. Again.

Correct.

Does this mean you're not sending me an Xmas gift? Only kidding. Clearly Pcad buys himself Xmas gifts. If you'll excuse me my GiveOSiht Meter appears to have dead batteries. Again.

I thought you were in the Da Bronx with family?

I thought you were in the Da Bronx with family?

We barely got out of there alive.

Perhaps the question been asked before but I just can't see it on the online order website.

If I'm interested on the Ti bike, but would like to do a upgrade. [i.e. the Sram or Red components]

1) Frist, Is there such a deal for Ti bike upgrade? Which series parts and how much?

2) What will be included on the up-grade?

I believed I have make the suggetion before by asking Mike to post it either inserts or sub icon under each deal for optional availability. I just thought that way, people like myself would not trouble other BFers' to repeat answering similar questions.

Thank you in adavance.

Correct.

Does this mean you're not sending me an Xmas gift? Only kidding. Clearly Pcad buys himself Xmas gifts. If you'll excuse me my GiveOSiht Meter appears to have dead batteries. Again.
It's ok, I love u too :eek: :love: (must be the Christmas spirit...):)

It's ok, I love u too :eek: :love: (must be the Christmas spirit...):)

F the Xmas Spirit. It's friggin OVER. I survived again. It's a Festivus MIRACLE.

http://www.dailyhaggis.com/img/festivus_front.jpg

Did we ever get pics of the 50mm tubulars?

Perhaps the question been asked before but I just can't see it on the online order website.

If I'm interested on the Ti bike, but would like to do a upgrade. [i.e. the Sram or Red components]

1) Frist, Is there such a deal for Ti bike upgrade? Which series parts and how much?

2) What will be included on the up-grade?

I believed I have make the suggetion before by asking Mike to post it either inserts or sub icon under each deal for optional availability. I just thought that way, people like myself would not trouble other BFers' to repeat answering similar questions.

Thank you in adavance.



thanks

the Ti bikes are as speced
no changes

of course, I do not really call a change from DA to Sram an upgrade -- just a change

Ti bikes will be shipped as they come from the factory; in sealed box

Did we ever get pics of the 50mm tubulars?

that was posted early on
first run of Shiano Tubulars are sold out
I have ordered more which will come later
Campy tubulars still a few left on first run

as the original post said
this is first come first served
and a few items will sell out

response has been great

thanks

Did we ever get pics of the 50mm tubulars?

Yes...in the very first post of this thread

Is there any information on the hubs on the Vuelta carbon tubular wheels, or did I miss that?

Thanks,

DPN

any news on getting the clincher versions? and any chance we can order separately (i.e. front only, rear only)?

thanks

i would be interested in that, also. a front.

Just sent in my order for the Bottechia CF Frameset. I thought about getting the Evoke but with the $$ saved with the Bottechia I decided I'd upgrade the components I plan to switch over from my old bike to this one.

Plus I'm no racer and I'm looking for a bike that'll be more comfy than my current alu bike on longer rides. I think I made the right decision. :)

Thanks for putting this together Mike!

Is there any information on the hubs on the Vuelta carbon tubular wheels, or did I miss that?

Thanks,

DPN

Hubs are the same used on the Vuelta Team SL wheelset
http://www.vueltaxrpwheels.com/

any news on getting the clincher versions? and any chance we can order separately (i.e. front only, rear only)?

thanks


I have a few 50mm clincher versions on the way
$20 extra
and sold in pairs only [as you might guess]