Felt like a textbook A&S 'feelgood' scenario, then reality sets in- I'm BIKING
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Bekologist
So, tonight after work, i'm biking along in a dark and windy Seattle evening. You know the type of road, a typical urban four lane arterial, 30 MPH speed limit, center turn lane, a few stoplights every half mile or so.
It's going pretty good. this is nothing new of course, but I'm biking along, fully taking the outside lane, motorists are moving around me, etc.(A little background, I ride daily and transportationally as well as recreationally, am adriot at taking the lane, quite assertive about my road rights, etc.) My ride is going well. the heavy, flooding rains of the morning had stopped, and visibility was good for a stormy night. Traffic was light.
Playing out like the typical bicycle commute, motorists passing smoothly, just tooling along, feeling good, humming a song to myself, and I get the "bwah bwah bwabwa" 'disgruntled motorist' garble out the window of a car that just passed me. The one you can't decipher the words, but know the tone is disapproving. I catch up at a light, and give a hearty 'thanks' to the car.
There's a big downhill after the light, so i'm off fast and ahead for a few hundred yards, by which point I'm usually doing the 30 MPH speed limit on this stretch. Do the motorists that harangued me out the window choose to simply pass in the other lane? Of course not. After the light, they decide to get behind me, lay on the horn, THEN pass, to tell me I need to get out of the road and how riding in the center of the lane isn't smart, blah blah blah....
So I ask: what was I doing wrong? the wrong cravat? insufficient panache? Was my lane positioning not sufficient to educate the motorists about my right to the lane? :rolleyes: I'm pretty sure I was getting harangued just because I was BIKING.
this fantasy some of the safety nannies posit around this forum is disgusting: the fantasy all a bicyclist needs to do to get respect on the roads is to take the lane, and watch the motorist harassment just fade away. what a crock.
some motorists will continue to disrespect bicyclists riding safely, legally or otherwise - REGARDLESS of lane position, exhibitions of panache or choice of cravat.
how much are you riding at night, Helmet Head? I'm trying to figure out some techniques for making my panache more noticable at night -any good ideas :D:?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
In all honesty, I do not remember the last time I took abuse while riding. A lot of it has to do with the places where I ride -- SoCalers are used to seeing guys on bikes -- but if I was taking the amount of abuse that seems typical of so many cases on this board, I would take a long, serious look at what I might be doing wrong.
Six jours
BTW, what's a "driot", and how does it help you when you're in the way of motorists? :p
CB HI
Typical Bek "I am all that" worthless thread.:rolleyes:
Bekologist
a droit is two drams, isn't it? It's definetly more than a pint...
no, CB, it's commentary that despite ones' road position, some motorists will still disrespect a bicyclist- regardless of ones's choice of cycling jacket or exhibitions of lane claiming panache.
Six jours
a droit is two drams, isn't it? It's definetly more than a pint...
Hell, I'm just glad that I fixed the misspelled "motorists" before you saw it. That could have been embarrassing...
Allister
Passing him again at the light was probably what really got his blood boiling. I don't even say anything to fools like that when I pass them, as just the simple act of passing them says everything I want to say.
Cyclaholic
this fantasy some of the safety nannies posit around this forum is disgusting: the fantasy all a bicyclist needs to do to get respect on the roads is to take the lane, and watch the motorist harassment just fade away. what a crock.
some motorists will continue to disrespect bicyclists riding safely, legally or otherwise - REGARDLESS of lane position, exhibitions of panache or choice of cravat.
how much are you riding at night, Helmet Head? I'm trying to figure out some techniques for making my panache more noticable at night -any good ideas :D:?
You know it, I know it, and pretty much every transportation cyclist that's ridden a public road knows it. The thing is that your VC zealots are exactly like the cager you had to deal with. They have their preconceived notions based on their beliefs and no ammount of reality will influence them. They're blindede by their own ideology.
Bek, when it comes to dealing with ignorance (of all stripes) I can only refer you to the wisdom of the penguins "smile and wave boys, smile and wave..."
Helmet Head is so busy preaching here I question whether he even OWNS a bike.
Boss Moniker
I thought the idea was that if we ALL start riding in the middle of the lane we'll eventually be respected.
Not that I believe it for a second though.
maddyfish
If you did anything wrong, it would be NOT letting the a@@h@le go at the light. You knew he was an idiot after he yelled at you when he passed the first time. NO reason to aggravate him by passing him. But really that's not a big thing. Some people are just a@@h@les.
bac
Some people are just a@@h@les.
Nail to head ... nail to head.
There is NOTHING you can do as a cyclist to protect yourself from this demographic - nothing. You can hope your encounters with this type of person are not frequent, but that's about it. Where I live, if you take the lane, you're getting hit - no question.
... Brad
derath
Typical Bek "I am all that" worthless thread.:rolleyes:
I wouldn't say exactly that. More like typical Bek "point out the obvious VC bait" thread.
I personally don't see the point. So you got yelled at. Sounds like, at least the first time, they passed you safely. You can't stop jerks from being jerks. But you can do you what you can to position yourself so you won't get hit or buzzed. Nothing is perfect though.
Sounds like maybe after the light your actions could have been construed as egging them on a bit. It sounds like (from your posts and other stories) you could be the "egg them on" type.
I am also kind of surprised, for being in one of the best cycling areas of the country you seem to have more than your fair share of negative experiences. But also, by the way you portray yourself here I can't say that I am surprised.
-D
fordfasterr
You should have taunted him, so that he stops and gets out of his car, after which you mace him and snap their pics and post them on BF for us to enjoy !!!!!!
maddyfish
Where I live, if you take the lane, you're getting hit - no question.
... Brad
Where do you live? I've ridden without trouble around Gettysburg, Philly, and Pitt. Just curious.
syn0n
You should have taunted him, so that he stops and gets out of his car, after which you mace him and snap their pics and post them on BF for us to enjoy !!!!!!
HAHAHA ohmygodz that's SO EDGY AND HILARIOUS!!!!11 I'M IN HYSTERICS!1! And then, and then, he can edit something hilarious into the photo and make the motorist say something like "omgz wtf wai u mase my fase?!?!" and we could have MAJOR LULZ at this awesome BF image macro AMIRITE?!?!
@ Berkologist: You're on a public road, which means you'll be dealing with the public. And the public is full of *******s. You think they're just picking on you? I doubt that. They're probably a pain in the ass to everyone. Get over it already.
fender1
American's (generally) hate bikes.
sbhikes
Bek your experience is so true. It illustrates how those of us with real world experience find the pontificatings of armchair cyclists with strong ideological opinions so baffling.
Bekologist
why did this thread about bicycling and safety and taking the lane get moved into the VC subforum?
seems a very realistic and aware and distinctly NON-VC point I make - that, DESPITE a bicyclists' lane position or riding flair, some motorists will still disrespect you.
syn0n
seems a very realistic and aware and distinctly NON-VC point I make - that, DESPITE a bicyclists' lane position or riding flair, some motorists will still disrespect you.
Uh, two things: One, like I mentioned earlier, there are *******s in the world, some of whom happen to be on the road and in a car at the same time. It's remarkable that you take it so personally, considering they probably act like jerks toward other people too. Secondly, you think "riding flair" demands respect? It's not an art form, it's riding in a lane. Hardly a ballet, if you ask me. But even if it were, you'd have critics in the real world.
Which is where you happen to cycle: the real world. People are jerks in all facets of it, one of which happens to be vehicle operation on a road. Get with the programme.
Bekologist
I don't think riding 'flair' has ANYTHING to do with it- that's one of this forums safety nannies' insistence that bicyclists with 'panache' get more respect from motorists. some posters thought fedoras might help more.
I'm much more of a realist about bicycling. I know how it is out there in traffic. I make no halcyon assertions about road and lane position being able to summon up 'feelgood' feelings from motorists for bicyclists.
I like posting little commuter happenstances from my daily commutes in here to see what gets stirred up.
Helmet Head
Another incident with a harassing motorist???
I'm sure the frequency with which this happens to you has nothing to do with your behavior, Beck. :rolleyes:
Seriously, based on your response to the poll up in A&S, where you said you don't care how long motorists have to wait behind you, I suspect you're not paying much attention to them, or how your behavior is affecting them, and this "I don't give a sh!t about you" attitude (because, let's be frank, you don't) is probably being conveyed to them, one way or another. Perhaps lane positioning, perhaps body language, perhaps a lack of behavior. It's impossible to know from this armchair. But I'm fairly certain that you could probably make a few adjustments in attitude and therefore behavior that should result in much less harassment. But you have to want to do that, and I don't think you do.
Bekologist
body language :rolleyes:
attitude :rolleyes:
change my behavior :rolleyes:
do you mean ride more submisively to motorists? further to the right? closer to the curb for the motorists conveinence?
dude. it was at NIGHT. what was i doing wrong? the motorists were upset with me intially for doing nothing except being where I was riding, taking a non-sharing outside narrow lane position on a four lane road...
maybe my blinkies and reflective arrays are too bright for the poor little motorists. :D
SingingSabre
Another incident with a harassing motorist???
I'm sure the frequency with which this happens to you has nothing to do with your behavior, Beck. :rolleyes:
Seriously, based on your response to the poll up in A&S, where you said you don't care how long motorists have to wait behind you, I suspect you're not paying much attention to them, or how your behavior is affecting them, and this "I don't give a sh!t about you" attitude (because, let's be frank, you don't) is probably being conveyed to them, one way or another. Perhaps lane positioning, perhaps body language, perhaps a lack of behavior. It's impossible to know from this armchair. But I'm fairly certain that you could probably make a few adjustments in attitude and therefore behavior that should result in much less harassment. But you have to want to do that, and I don't think you do.
-1
EDIT:
Yes, that's a minus 1
Allister
Another incident with a harassing motorist???
I'm sure the frequency with which this happens to you has nothing to do with your behavior, Beck. :rolleyes:
You just don't ride often enough on busy enough roads to see much of this. Of course it's inconceivable to you that the motorist might have the behavioural problems :rolleyes:
Seriously, based on your response to the poll up in A&S, where you said you don't care how long motorists have to wait behind you, I suspect you're not paying much attention to them, or how your behavior is affecting them, and this "I don't give a sh!t about you" attitude (because, let's be frank, you don't) is probably being conveyed to them, one way or another. Perhaps lane positioning, perhaps body language, perhaps a lack of behavior. It's impossible to know from this armchair. But I'm fairly certain that you could probably make a few adjustments in attitude and therefore behavior that should result in much less harassment. But you have to want to do that, and I don't think you do.
In this case he was holding the speed limit. Any cars being 'held up' would have to be trying to exceed the speed limit. As far as I'm concerned such people can get stuffed. They are the ones that need to adjust their attitude.
Bek was riding exactly as you would've been, Serge, and you still insist he was the one doing something wrong? The simple fact is that some drivers are just angry idiots. If you haven't encountered any of them, you're not riding enough.
StrangeWill
body language :rolleyes:
attitude :rolleyes:
change my behavior :rolleyes:
do you mean ride more submisively to motorists? further to the right? closer to the curb for the motorists conveinence?
dude. it was at NIGHT. what was i doing wrong? the motorists were upset with me intially for doing nothing except being where I was riding, taking a non-sharing outside narrow lane position on a four lane road...
maybe my blinkies and reflective arrays are too bright for the poor little motorists. :D
Your name isn't Helmet Head and you're not the God of cycling, THATS what you did wrong...
syn0n
that's one of this forums safety nannies' insistence that bicyclists with 'panache' get more respect from motorists. I make no halcyon assertions about road and lane position being able to summon up 'feelgood' feelings from motorists for bicyclists.
Oh, my apologies. The sarcasm came off as whineyness in your first post, didn't catch it.
TheWheelman
Bek your experience is so true. It illustrates how those of us with real world experience find the pontificatings of armchair cyclists with strong ideological opinions so baffling.
1. Bashing others for mouse-potatoing by hitting "send" thereby incriminating yourself of doing just that at an hour when they perhaps weren't, is a guaranteed bulls-eye in your own foot every time. Please don't make me keep on wasting time digging out the numbers of how much more voluminous of a poster you are than me.
2. If you want to talk about "experience", I was out there putting fist dents in horn leaners' hoods/fenders/doors on my commute daily when you were piddling in your pampers. On second thought, you probably weren't even born yet when I was putting fist dents in hoods/fenders/doors daily. You were probably, rather, piddling in your pampers by about the time that I had matured more than Bekologist has now.
3. My mouse-potatoing chair doesn't have arms.
noisebeam
I catch up at a light, and give a hearty 'thanks' to the car.
What is this code for?
Some here say you must be doing something wrong to get occasional harassment and rare aggressiveness from motorists. I say given how much you ride using centerish lane position when needed and how little you get such poor treatment you must be doing something right.
Last Wednesday I was riding right biased about 5' from curb in wide 25mph residential street with no striping of any kind, not even a center stripe, at 6:15pm on the way to a recreational ride with some friends. A vehicle will pass at every 1/2mi or so, very lightly traveled. Some kids in pickup truck (four of them squeezed into the front bench seat) came up beside me and started hollering at me and making fools of themselves. I ignored them and they make a u-turn ahead and circled back and did the same. No response and they were off again. I caught them at a light, they were making a right turn. I pulled up behind them left biased and waited. They could not turn for a while due to x-traffic. I had my 10W HID on and it just happened to be aimed at their rear view side mirror (really not my intent), which the driver then covered with their hand to block the glare. No words exchanged. They shortly later took off in a cloud of burnt rubber as their truck fishtailed. I was very impressed.
Al
CommuterRun
this fantasy some of the safety nannies posit around this forum is disgusting: the fantasy all a bicyclist needs to do to get respect on the roads is to take the lane, and watch the motorist harassment just fade away. what a crock.
some motorists will continue to disrespect bicyclists riding safely, legally or otherwise - REGARDLESS of lane position, exhibitions of panache or choice of cravat.
You answered your own question in the very same post. I don't recall anyone ever saying that riding in a vehicular manner would protect from all harassing pinheads, as you claim. From a cager as described, riding in a BL will provide no more protection from harassment. What vehicular cycling does do is make the cyclist more visible and predictable from a motorists point of view, which makes it easier for them to choose a safe course of action to accommodate their purpose.
Point of fact: You were harassed by one motorist out of how many that passed safely? (Rhetorical question)
Case Closed
Bekologist
Actually, I disagree, CB. If I wasn't in the path of this vehicle I likely would have received no static from this motorist, so a bike lane may very well have eliminated the trigger for this example.
However, in the spirit of your argument, I generally agree. Some motorists will always dislike bicyclists REGARDLESS of how the road is striped!
John C. Ratliff
Bek,
I think that the weather in Seattle may have something to do with it...people don't respond the same in the winter as in the summer, they are more edgy. This could explain some of the differences between here in the Pacific Northwest, and the experiences of those in Southern Cal. There is a name for this too, Seasonal Affective Disorder. It is more prevalent here where the days are shorter, the nights longer, and now the weather is getting really bad (snow, rain, flooding, etc.). For drivers, Seattle is one of the most depressing areas in the USA to drive, and this could affect the drivers too.
I experienced a similar situation last week, when I made a 17 mile bike ride on my recumbant. I was going slightly downhill, and a single-lane two way road with a cement divider and no marked place for bicycles. I took the lane, intending to get through this short section, and was going between 15-20 mph. This area was only about 50 yards long. A pickup behind me had to wait until the center divider ended, then at great speed accelerated around me. I had about 15 more feet to go until I could have pulled over and let him (it was a "him") pass. He could not wait the extra 10 seconds, and had to make a "statement" as he passed me and yelled at me.
The next day, I went through the same route on my upright Trek 1420, and met another recumbant cyclist coming up the hill (on a very nice, wide bike path beside Hwy 26 going over the Silven Hills). I noted he was flying an American Flag, and stopped to ask him about it, as I also fly an American Flag on my recumbant. He said that he knew he had to fly a flag, and he asked himself who his antagonists were? They were the red necks who wanted to harrass bicyclists. Since they are also "super patriots," flying the American flag would give them a second or two pause, and by that time they would be beyond him. I told him of my non-scientific studies of passing distances with and without the Ameriacn Flag, where I found that I was passed at a greater distance when flying the American Flag than when not doing so (I have an orange triangular flag too). So there is at least one other person who has figured out that flying an American Flag is a preventive measure that can help a cyclists.
But the main thing is that these red neck folks are out there, and they will harrass bicyclists no matter how well the cyclist is riding. Perhaps there are fewer of them, and those that are there are in a better mood, in Southern Cal than in the Pacific Northwest.
John
Allister
1. Bashing others for mouse-potatoing by hitting "send" thereby incriminating yourself of doing just that at an hour when they perhaps weren't, is a guaranteed bulls-eye in your own foot every time. Please don't make me keep on wasting time digging out the numbers of how much more voluminous of a poster you are than me.
2. If you want to talk about "experience", I was out there putting fist dents in horn leaners' hoods/fenders/doors on my commute daily when you were piddling in your pampers. On second thought, you probably weren't even born yet when I was putting fist dents in hoods/fenders/doors daily. You were probably, rather, piddling in your pampers by about the time that I had matured more than Bekologist has now.
3. My mouse-potatoing chair doesn't have arms.
I don't recall your name being mentioned anywhere, Junior. Guilty conscience?
Allister
I don't recall anyone ever saying that riding in a vehicular manner would protect from all harassing pinheads, as you claim.
Didn't you see this (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=5747603&postcount=22)?
CommuterRun
Yeah, like I said.
Bekologist
Yeah, like I said.
No, actually NOT. like I said... "I disagree, CB. If I wasn't in the path of this vehicle I likely would have received no static from this motorist, so a bike lane may very well have eliminated the trigger for this example.
However, in the spirit of your argument, I generally agree. Some motorists will always dislike bicyclists REGARDLESS of how the road is striped!
CommuterRun
^^What's this blather about? You trying to argue while agreeing with me?
How does that work?
:roflmao:
"... If I wasn't in the path of this vehicle I likely would have received no static from this motorist, so a bike lane may very well have eliminated the trigger for this example."
Pure supposition.
:roflmao:
gcottay
some motorists will continue to disrespect bicyclists riding safely, legally or otherwise - REGARDLESS of lane position, exhibitions of panache or choice of cravat.
Yes, some drivers will do just about anything at any time. Some drivers are on the way home to abuse spouse and children. Some drivers are on the way to sit in hospital with the sick or to deliver food to the hungry.
In my always limited experience and quite humble opinion, the huge majority of drivers respond well most of the time to safe and assertive riders. The rest of them can sort out their own problems.
makeinu
So I ask: what was I doing wrong? the wrong cravat? insufficient panache? Was my lane positioning not sufficient to educate the motorists about my right to the lane? :rolleyes: I'm pretty sure I was getting harangued just because I was BIKING.
Who cares? Give the guy the finger and roll along. You are not legally obligated to pay heed to the words of other road users. Let him huff and puff. If it bothers you then tell him to stick it up his ass. It doesn't have anything to do with driving, cycling, or anything else road related.