Brian
12-05-07, 04:52 PM
On this (http://www.industryoutsider.com/?p=230) blog post.
View Full Version : Feel free to comment
Abneycat
12-05-07, 05:44 PM
I have no kind words for the Pi either. Firstly, on the e-bike side, the thing is a *joke*.
For starting at $7500, I wouldn't touch it. LX and XT are good components, no doubt about that, but they're snowing people with the cost here. LX starts on bikes under 4 digits. The Nuvinci is the only thing I really see that pops out on the specs at all. The electric stats on the bike itself can be utterly beaten with $1400 and a quick trip to your local BionX dealer.
Their website mentions 36v/50ah on the NiMH. That means one of three things: 1: that they're idiots, and have listed the output rating rather than the capacity. 2: that their website is utterly wrong, as 50ah of NiMH would weigh about 80lbs on its own. 3: that they're *lying* about the weight of the bike, and simply not counting how much their batteries pack on in lbs. I doubt that, as getting their claimed 25 miles with a whole 50 amp hours of Nickel Metal would just be *Pathetic*
I'm just going to end the rant and not continue on about it. The hardware that comes on the Pi is top notch stuff, but its a poor design and an unbelievably poor price. This thing is in the same category as "trading down" your old car for a few more miles of fuel efficiency, junking the old car and all of the energy that went into making it along with it. It belongs in the same category as the GM green card, encouraging people to buy more cars for the same reason, through a great GM deal! woo earth.
How about buying more products with a little "X% donated to Y charity" sticker on them? Helps ease the conscious of the consumer, does nothing for the problem when you're using energy and resources to buy junk you don't need on the premise of well doing.
So why do I feel that the Pi belongs in the category of businesses taking advantage of gullible and/or lazy people based around "green marketing"?
The most insulting thing about the Pi to me, and the reason I really hate it?
http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/pielectrobike/2735860
This.
This is a joke. I'd like to call it an *expletive* joke, but that might not be good for the forums. When a company comes out with stuff like this, where you can waste a massive amount of production energy, environmental resources and money *just* so you can charge your bicycle - at $1800 - its when you know that they're angling for gullible green victims to chew up. I love the comment about " but reduce that number to zero (for $1800 extra) by attaching its giant arch-shaped solar charger"
Wonder what the carbon footprint for building a panel just for your bike cost? Wondering what it'll net the earth back, comparative to simply using grid or better yet, renewable grid? I'll give you a hint: compared to using grid, it'll take you a *long* time to earn that panels cost on the earth back. Renewable grid? Probably never. Oh, and how about buying a panel for your own home that can you know, do useful stuff when its not being used for your big red expensive ego-booster? This kind of product makes me utterly sick, to be honest.
There are real world solutions to problems, problems like keeping your life here on earth clean. And then there's marketing wash:
Meet Pi.
Anyone who doesn't feel like getting sucked into the specs of a big red piece of junk, go get yourself a comfy bike with some good utility to it, so you can do real life things with it and use it to help out on your pledge to save the world. Then, if you need electric and you have the pocketbook to buy a Pi, go look at a BionX, Heinzmann, Stokemonkey, anything. They'll let you use your bike, outperform, save you money, and work towards your goal hand in hand without snowing you over.
For starting at $7500, I wouldn't touch it. LX and XT are good components, no doubt about that, but they're snowing people with the cost here. LX starts on bikes under 4 digits. The Nuvinci is the only thing I really see that pops out on the specs at all. The electric stats on the bike itself can be utterly beaten with $1400 and a quick trip to your local BionX dealer.
Their website mentions 36v/50ah on the NiMH. That means one of three things: 1: that they're idiots, and have listed the output rating rather than the capacity. 2: that their website is utterly wrong, as 50ah of NiMH would weigh about 80lbs on its own. 3: that they're *lying* about the weight of the bike, and simply not counting how much their batteries pack on in lbs. I doubt that, as getting their claimed 25 miles with a whole 50 amp hours of Nickel Metal would just be *Pathetic*
I'm just going to end the rant and not continue on about it. The hardware that comes on the Pi is top notch stuff, but its a poor design and an unbelievably poor price. This thing is in the same category as "trading down" your old car for a few more miles of fuel efficiency, junking the old car and all of the energy that went into making it along with it. It belongs in the same category as the GM green card, encouraging people to buy more cars for the same reason, through a great GM deal! woo earth.
How about buying more products with a little "X% donated to Y charity" sticker on them? Helps ease the conscious of the consumer, does nothing for the problem when you're using energy and resources to buy junk you don't need on the premise of well doing.
So why do I feel that the Pi belongs in the category of businesses taking advantage of gullible and/or lazy people based around "green marketing"?
The most insulting thing about the Pi to me, and the reason I really hate it?
http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/pielectrobike/2735860
This.
This is a joke. I'd like to call it an *expletive* joke, but that might not be good for the forums. When a company comes out with stuff like this, where you can waste a massive amount of production energy, environmental resources and money *just* so you can charge your bicycle - at $1800 - its when you know that they're angling for gullible green victims to chew up. I love the comment about " but reduce that number to zero (for $1800 extra) by attaching its giant arch-shaped solar charger"
Wonder what the carbon footprint for building a panel just for your bike cost? Wondering what it'll net the earth back, comparative to simply using grid or better yet, renewable grid? I'll give you a hint: compared to using grid, it'll take you a *long* time to earn that panels cost on the earth back. Renewable grid? Probably never. Oh, and how about buying a panel for your own home that can you know, do useful stuff when its not being used for your big red expensive ego-booster? This kind of product makes me utterly sick, to be honest.
There are real world solutions to problems, problems like keeping your life here on earth clean. And then there's marketing wash:
Meet Pi.
Anyone who doesn't feel like getting sucked into the specs of a big red piece of junk, go get yourself a comfy bike with some good utility to it, so you can do real life things with it and use it to help out on your pledge to save the world. Then, if you need electric and you have the pocketbook to buy a Pi, go look at a BionX, Heinzmann, Stokemonkey, anything. They'll let you use your bike, outperform, save you money, and work towards your goal hand in hand without snowing you over.
Brian
12-05-07, 05:51 PM
Man, I thought I was harsh on my blog. ;)
JeanCoutu
12-05-07, 06:07 PM
Bah, it's ugly.
Abneycat
12-05-07, 06:18 PM
Sorry, its just that topics like this irk me. As an environmentalist, i'm quite happy to have an increased awareness on these issues lately. One thing i'm *not* happy to see, is a business misleading the flock. Its quite utterly and bluntly, moral victimization for profit.
AllenG
12-05-07, 08:04 PM
Someone forgot rule number one: form follows function.
A bit over steeped in academia but it's a passable undergraduate kinetic sculpture project.
As a bicycle it's a travesty, it looks like a bendy pen. Maybe they should concentrate on office supply design.
A bit over steeped in academia but it's a passable undergraduate kinetic sculpture project.
As a bicycle it's a travesty, it looks like a bendy pen. Maybe they should concentrate on office supply design.
Brian
12-05-07, 08:24 PM
Testicles fear that design.
blippo
12-05-07, 08:40 PM
Looks uncomfortable
Abneycat
12-05-07, 09:23 PM
On the bike itself, it looks like dog. We need more manufacturers out there willing to do designs that look more like normal bikes, and have normal utility. At least do away with the wonky space-age designs like this. The Pi isn't solely at fault here, there are a *lot* of hideous e-bikes out there. Oh so hideous.
Now, if someone teamed up with a company like Electra and did some nice e-bikes with discreet, good looking hub motors with a model like say, the Amsterdam Classic or the Super Deluxe cruiser, i'd buy one for sure. Or at least drool over it for a few minutes.
Now, if someone teamed up with a company like Electra and did some nice e-bikes with discreet, good looking hub motors with a model like say, the Amsterdam Classic or the Super Deluxe cruiser, i'd buy one for sure. Or at least drool over it for a few minutes.
EricJ
12-05-07, 10:19 PM
Now that's DELIBERATELY ugly! Big clunky welded up tubes with skinny tires just doesn't look right. Speaking of skinny tires, they call their Pi X a "freeway legal Pi". I don't think I'd be on the freeway with 17" x 2.5" tires. But then the description says it can do 30 mph. That ugly moped would specifically be illegal on a California freeway.
Anyway, we can beat this thing to death, but ultimately it's greatest sin is it is just too ugly to believe.
Somebody had way too much money and free time on their hands...
Eric
Anyway, we can beat this thing to death, but ultimately it's greatest sin is it is just too ugly to believe.
Somebody had way too much money and free time on their hands...
Eric
Lowell_
12-05-07, 11:29 PM
Electrobike does have one thing going for them, and that's a real world record from a real sanctioning body.
64.848mph!
http://www.viovio.com/shop/15403
Other than that, I pretty much agree with you guys...
64.848mph!
http://www.viovio.com/shop/15403
Other than that, I pretty much agree with you guys...
cerewa
12-06-07, 06:45 AM
Testicles fear that design.
Personally I would rather hit the top tube after a fall of an inch than hit the top tube after a fall of 4 inches, but maybe it's just me.
But honestly, I think the bike is junk, at that price.
So is a similarly-priced car if used for short range single-occupant commuting.
I like that they made a bike that looks really different. I like that they are marketing it to CNN fans and maybe getting some new folks interested in eco-friendly products. Fact is, slick marketing and electric bikes are rarely seen together, which I consider to be a shame.
Ultimately, I would say that for a $7500 you get $800 worth of utilitarian electric-bike and you'd better like the "art" side of this thing enough to pay $6700 for it. Some people will pay a lot more than $6700 for things they think are pretty, so I don't get too worked up about it every time I see it.
I don't like the "conspicuous environmentalist consumption side of Pi, or of hybrid SUVs,* or of people who buy a Toyota Prius but don't insulate their windows and hot water pipes to save heating gas. (insulation is cheap and its manufacture is environmentally benign compared to a car's hybrid system). Or drive their Prius around alone when they could be using an e-bike. Or say that they're being good for the environment by getting a "small" SUV.
*yes, you can use hybrid SUVs on gravel roads and off-road, but you can use a plain old car on gravel roads and a mountain bike off-road too-- with lower environmental impact, but then you won't look like you're showing off excessive wealth
Personally I would rather hit the top tube after a fall of an inch than hit the top tube after a fall of 4 inches, but maybe it's just me.
But honestly, I think the bike is junk, at that price.
So is a similarly-priced car if used for short range single-occupant commuting.
I like that they made a bike that looks really different. I like that they are marketing it to CNN fans and maybe getting some new folks interested in eco-friendly products. Fact is, slick marketing and electric bikes are rarely seen together, which I consider to be a shame.
Ultimately, I would say that for a $7500 you get $800 worth of utilitarian electric-bike and you'd better like the "art" side of this thing enough to pay $6700 for it. Some people will pay a lot more than $6700 for things they think are pretty, so I don't get too worked up about it every time I see it.
I don't like the "conspicuous environmentalist consumption side of Pi, or of hybrid SUVs,* or of people who buy a Toyota Prius but don't insulate their windows and hot water pipes to save heating gas. (insulation is cheap and its manufacture is environmentally benign compared to a car's hybrid system). Or drive their Prius around alone when they could be using an e-bike. Or say that they're being good for the environment by getting a "small" SUV.
*yes, you can use hybrid SUVs on gravel roads and off-road, but you can use a plain old car on gravel roads and a mountain bike off-road too-- with lower environmental impact, but then you won't look like you're showing off excessive wealth
Brian
12-06-07, 06:52 AM
*yes, you can use hybrid SUVs on gravel roads and off-road, but you can use a plain old car on gravel roads and a mountain bike off-road too-- with lower environmental impact, but then you won't look like you're showing off excessive wealth
We have a Jeep that we rarely drive, it's really just for really bad winter days right now. So we take our Scion xB a lot of places it was never meant to go. Not too long ago, we went shooting, and watched this guy in a Chevy 4WD truck struggle to get up to where I was parked. When we drive by there, we see a lot of 4WD trucks parked down at the bottom of the hill, which is even worse than the soccer moms in Suburbans - guys that drive giant 4WD trucks with 35" or bigger tires, yet don't even take them off road.
We have a Jeep that we rarely drive, it's really just for really bad winter days right now. So we take our Scion xB a lot of places it was never meant to go. Not too long ago, we went shooting, and watched this guy in a Chevy 4WD truck struggle to get up to where I was parked. When we drive by there, we see a lot of 4WD trucks parked down at the bottom of the hill, which is even worse than the soccer moms in Suburbans - guys that drive giant 4WD trucks with 35" or bigger tires, yet don't even take them off road.
v6v6v6
12-06-07, 09:05 AM
Testicles fear that design. LOL, my wife said basically the same thing. :D
Sianelle
12-06-07, 06:08 PM
Crikey that thing's horrible :vomit:
Whoever designed that should be ashamed of themselves.
Whoever designed that should be ashamed of themselves.
JeanCoutu
12-07-07, 09:28 AM
Crikey that thing's horrible :vomit:
Whoever designed that should be forced to ride it.
fixed, from the let-the-punishment-fit-the-crime dept.
Whoever designed that should be forced to ride it.
fixed, from the let-the-punishment-fit-the-crime dept.
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