Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Conti Tires USA Distributor - Why Did You Give Me Such Awful Advice?

I wrote to the Conti USA distributor (Highway Two) asking about the differences in flat protection between the Ultra GatorSkin and the Grand Prix 4 Season. I was told they had basically the same flat protection. Wow, was that wrong!

I had seven flat free months on the Ultra GatorSkins, excellent! In two weeks of commuting on the same roads with the Grand Prix 4 Season I had 3 flats due to glass punctures and a very expensive ruined tire with a 2 cm gash in it! I really feel let down by the horrible and expensive advice that I was given.

Here is a copy of my correspondence with the Conti People. They never responded to my last email, no questions or apology. After many, many years of using Conti tires I feel very let down by them.

______________________

Highway Two Person,

Could you please tell me what the difference in flat protection is
between
the Ultra Gatorskin and the Grand Prix 4 Season? I'm very happy with my
Gatorskins, but sadly can no longer find them locally.

Also, are there any other major differences between the two tires that
I should know about?


Thank you very much for your help,

Ziemas.


_____________________________

The difference in Flat protection is basically the same. The main
difference is going to be the rubber compound used and the tread
pattern.
The 4 season is a tire designed for more adverse conditions where the
Ultra
gator skin tires are designed to be a beefed up road tire that offers
more
flat protection over the race day tires.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Lee
Highway Two / Tech Support

______________________________

Lee,

I took your advice about the flat protection of the Ultra GatorSkin vs the Grand Prix 4 season and am extremely disappointed after using Grand Prix 4 Season tires for two weeks. The difference in flat protection between the Grand Prix 4 season and Ultra GatorSkin is enormous. In seven months of daily commuting with Ultra GatorSkins I didn't have single flat, although I dug some nasty pieces of glass out of my tires. After two weeks of commuting on Grand Prix 4 Season tires I have had three flats and one rather expensive destroyed tire with a 2cm gash in it. Having been a loyal Conti customer for many years I'm very disappointed in the bad advice you gave me. Please don't tell anyone else the same as you told me in the future.


Regards,

Ziemas.

It's kind of hard to compare flat protection based on the number of flats you've had. Too many variables. Did you run over the same debris exactly the same way?

Ziemas is experiencing what I believe is either:

1. the GP4's having an ultra soft and grippy rubber on top of the same protection that the Gatorskin has, and glass and rocks penetrate this easier

or

2. A. different layer under the main tread for the Gatorskin that provides better protection (like their MTB tire Safety System) than the GP4, but Conti seems to be marketing the GP4's durability better

Keep in mind that DuraSkin protects the sidewall only, according to Conti.

I am especially interested as I want a grippy tire for the winter, but I'm used to the durability of the Gatorskins for the past 8 months. Note the poll I posted here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=368861

The following reviews (some of them) agree with Ziemas' assessment

http://www.golod.com/2005/06/continental-grand-prix-4-season-tires/

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/tires-clincher/continental/PRD_133057_2489crx.aspx#reviews

Please update this thread as I'm trying to decide myself whether to "upgrade" to the GP4's

Ziemas, why do you have so much trouble with your gear?

No flats in over Two Years of inner city commuting on Conti GP Four Seasons.

Zero.

I've never flatted these ever.

20,000+ flat free miles.

Sorry you messed up your new tires.

BTW, the compound on these tires is not particularly soft and seems to pick up less glass than other tires I have used.

Ziemas, why do you have so much trouble with your gear?
This generalization does not seem to apply to this situation since there are a number of comments on other sites that support what Ziemas is stating (take a look at the links I posted).

This generalization does not seem to apply to this situation since there are a number of comments on other sites that support what Ziemas is stating (take a look at the links I posted).

I have helped him with other issues, and that was a bit of a joke.

Ziemas, why do you have so much trouble with your gear?

Good question. I think it's mostly a lack of customer service from the local distributors.

If you need a small part you will go to your LBS and either order it or they'll have one on hand. Not here. I've been told numerous times that it will take up to a year and a half to get the small part I need, or that they just won't order it at all!

Get this; the distributor of Avid here in Latvia doesn't carry Avid disc brake pads in their store - they are a special order item! Although they do carry the brakes themselves, they only sell cheap Chinese knockoff pads which are rubbish. This is at the distributor mind you. Same thing when I needed a new bulb for my Sigma Sport halogen light, the distributor sells the lights but doesn't stock extra bulbs. Urgh.

Sadly a lot of times I have to go directly to the manufacture because their distributors here just don't care about customer service after the sale.

It's kind of hard to compare flat protection based on the number of flats you've had. Too many variables. Did you run over the same debris exactly the same way?

The exact same roads were ridden. As I wrote in the first post, I have dug some nasty pieces of glass out of my GatorSkins with no flats in seven months. With the GP 4 seasons glass just cuts right through them. I've found no glass in the GPs which didn't cause a flat.

Not having a flat on GatorSkins for seven months and then having three flats in two weeks and a ruined tire with a 2cm gash in it is more than coincidence in my book. The flat protection of the GP 4 Seasons is simply horrible and not 'basically the same' as the GatorSkins as the Conti folks told me.

No tire company will ever warranty a tire because of road debris.

No tire company will ever warranty a tire because of road debris.

That's not the point. The point is that they told me the flat protection between the two tires is basically the same, which it clearly isn't. I would have never spent $95 dollars on the set of tires if they would have been truthful with me in the first place. For me the tires are useless.

Further research which I have done shows that the GP 4 season has '5 plies (3 for casing plus 2 anti-puncture layers)/ total 430 tpi', while the Gatorskin has 'a combination of three flat protection technologies. Super fine 170 tpi casing plus a bead-to-bead layer of DuraSkin, and a Kevlar®-reinforced layer directly under the tread.' Clearly they are different in the flat protection which they offer.


Info about the GP 4 Season - http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/tires/race/grand_prix_4_season/grand_prix_4_season_en.html

Info about the GatorSkin - http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=COC3P

If you want to take this up with their marketing people, let me know. I have a few contacts there now.

If you want to take this up with their marketing people, let me know. I have a few contacts there now.

Perhaps. All I really want them to do is admit that the flat protection in the two tires is vastly different and not to give bad and expensive advice to others in the future. I emailed them this thread and they still didn't reply. I think they just don't care.

I found that the conti 4000's gave me equal flat protection compared with the gatorskins.. You will pay a little more for the 4000's but they are a great tire.. I have not tried the new S version of the 4000 tire, which is supposed to have longer life..

I found that the conti 4000's gave me equal flat protection compared with the gatorskins.. You will pay a little more for the 4000's but they are a great tire.. I have not tried the new S version of the 4000 tire, which is supposed to have longer life..

I think you are one of the few. Did you read my first post, the reviews posted in post #3, or the info in post 11? They are clearly not the same. Perhaps if you are riding on streets which don't have a lot of broken glass they might seem so, but on city streets with lots of glass there is a HUGE difference.

The 4000's are different than the Gp4's..


Trust me so cal has some decent roads but plenty of broken glass and debris..

Perhaps. All I really want them to do is admit that the flat protection in the two tires is vastly different and not to give bad and expensive to others in the future. I emailed them this thread and they still didn't reply. I think they just don't care.

Ziemas, if it's any consolation, I just bought a pair of GP 4's, only to have them introduce the GP-4's with a puncture resistant compound called Vectran just one day after receiving the tires.

It's ok, I'm really satisfied with the GP 4's handling so far, but then again they are new. Here's the newer tire:



http://biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=CO4SV

^^^^

Thanks, but after 20+ years of riding Conti I think I'm finished with them. They didn't even have the common courtesy to answer the two emails I sent about problems with the tires.

I have also had good luck with Schwalbe Stelvio tires.. Fairly lightweight and good puncture resistance.. A smaller brand but good results..

I have also had good luck with Schwalbe Stelvio tires.. Fairly lightweight and good puncture resistance.. A smaller brand but good results..

I've used Schwalbe tires on my wife's commuter and one of my touring bikes and have been happy with them, but I've never tried their racing tires. Thanks for the tip, I'll look into them.