Mountain Biking - Freeride Photos!

ok, so i always complain about how the riders in Europe are so fit and can climb so well, but have no technical/downhill skills...

well i met a group of "Freeriders" here in Munich and went riding with one on Saturday and we rode some wicked hiking trails.

as i expected, Michi was pretty slow on the uphills and my friend Robert and I waited on him quite a bit... but he always made it and rode the whole 1800 meters (6000 ft) of vertical for the day - although he kept wishing for the lift. then we took a break and he broke out a cigarette which i have neevr seen on a MTB ride...

we rode 3 downhill trails: the first a nice but not so crazy trail i've ridden twice (400m and then we climbed another trail back up - very steep - i was not "fit" and my friend Robert kicked my butt going uphill), then a SUPER crazy steep hiking trail (750m, 600m of trail), then another climb and finally 400m of steep trail...

at the beginning of the first trail, Michi says "i'll wait for you guys" and heads off... i follow (excited that i am for once not in the lead as i usually am) thinking "we'll see..." --- oh, i ride an XC bike with only 80mm of travel and it is so rare that someone here ride super-techincal stuff, so i think it is fair that he assumed he would be waiting, but...

he can really ride, but after the first third of the trail he dismounted for a few drops that i rode and i kept catching up to him, so i switched to the front. but he can really ride and we had a great time doing drops and then stopping, climbing back up and trying again...

i should have taken more photos, but we were having too much fun riding!

the first photo here: my first attempt (i stopped before the last drop):

then michi tried... he bailed at the same spot.

then i just did it! i rode with a lot more speed (notice the photo is a little blury). the last drop is much bigger than it looks! because of the roots we couldn't ride the "good" line to the right but decided to drop the middle... i pulled the rear, but i still touched the rings, but it worked!

then came a cool small narrow gravel section that drops off to the side... and then comes to some long stairs...

the gravel and the drop-off to the side made the stairs that aren't THAT steep really interesting!

and watch that rock on the left -- on my first attempt my handlebar met the rock! which made for a scary dismount!

and Michi on another drop -- the picture doesn't do it justice...

anyway, it was a good warm-up for my EXTREME downhill trails the first weekend of October in Lake Garda!!!!

Originally posted by nathank
i should have taken more photos, but we were having too much fun riding!

ThanX for taking and sharing the pix you did take! I love cooool pix!!!! :beer:

Nice pics. Looks like a great trail.

I would how ever like to see them droping from that rock in the fourth picture before they get to the stairs to truly call them "Freeriders":p


:beer:

Looks like trail riding to me, but nice pics anyways.

are you guys using clipless or regular pedals?

Looks very technical... and very good fun :) thx for the pics :D

Yeah, that looks way fun! What specialized bikes you guys have. Sorry my skills at telling from the pics are not that great.

That looks like a fun area with lots to play on. I could session that section in and around the top, a few drops, with the right angle you mihgt even be able to launch off that rock to the left at the top and use the stair like a landing, but like that would end up hurting ;)...

Sweet area.

Yeah, that looks way fun! What specialized bikes you guys have. Sorry my skills at telling from the pics are not that great.
i've got a '02 Specialized FSR XC Comp with a Fox RL Float fork - 80mm. i just ordered a salsa Chainring gaurd... i like the challenge of not having a lot of suspension, but i think i am pushing the limits of my bike...

the other guy has a Specialized Enduro with a Bomber 130mm Fork.

are you guys using clipless or regular pedals?
he's got platforms. i have clipless (eggbeaters). he was telling me i should try out some flat pedals... i'm thinking about it but i have been riding clipless so long i am really used to it... but i think i am getting to the point where platforms would make more sense...

anyone got any comments? or switched or whatever?

Nathank, what kind of helmets are you wearing? I like them a lot and i am on the lookout for a trailriding fullface helmet. NICEEEE pics

Looks like trail riding to me, but nice pics anyways.
hmm... well what is the real meaning of Freeriding?

to me i think of it:
1) NOT being XC where you ride for speed - up and down
2) not being Downhill - where you ride for speed downhill - technical stuff is involved but SPEED is the goal, not necessarily doing new/cool stuff or looking for the hardest lines...

but just a more laid-back style where you try out new challenging stuff, look for the difficult lines and "pretty" lines... and just ride for the fun of it, but usually seeking out big challenges...

so Danka24, are you thinking "Freeriding" is more "North Shore" style riding ramps and huge drops and all?

or how do you guys thing of Freeriding?

Freeriding involves stunts, jumps, drops, gap jumps.

Originally posted by danka24
Freeriding involves stunts, jumps, drops, gap jumps.

Sorry but i strongly disagree here ,nathank is inline with my views, freeriding is FREE, it is not defined as beeing macho rider going BIG. Its about having fun on a bike, riding harder than pure XC racing style, but more importantly be FREE and DEVOID of any DH/DJ/NS/XC labels in your riding.

Originally posted by math2p14
Sorry but i strongly disagree here ,nathank is inline with my views, freeriding is FREE, it is not defined as beeing macho rider going BIG. Its about having fun on a bike, riding harder than pure XC racing style, but more importantly be FREE and DEVOID of any DH/DJ/NS/XC labels in your riding.

From the pictures, that is trail riding big difference.

Originally posted by danka24
From the pictures, that is trail riding big difference.

I have no objection to any opinion presented, but having said that we have the following mtb disciplines.

DH/XC/FR/NSFR/TR/DJ/UA .....dooooh i dont need any more labels.:crash: i just want some bloody time to ride and i cant find any ...at least at this ****y period of moving between cities and writing research papers:crash: :crash: :crash: :crash:

Anyway cheer up people, labels or no labels...:beer:

Well, I have been in that area, so I figure seeing the terrain, the mean could be varied.

it looks like ur running on the edge of ur fork... in pics one and 3 all the travel is used up :D nice :P

cheers guys... uve helped me realise that im not a Xc rider... im actually i freerider ( i think) I do abit of everything... even though my favourite is dj'ing and dh'ing but my rig hasnt been good enough so far... hopefully in the future i will pursue the downhilling... Now i have a dirt jumper rig and a Xc/ Freeride rig :)

Nate -

This is Eric. Keep in mind the N.A. definition of freeride is crafted and co-opted by the commercial interests that sell us our fun by the penny pound. If it does not look extravegant it can not be freeriding here.

Your definition is a disseminated and accepted one of free-riding, it is just not as well advertised.

Originally posted by nathank
he's got platforms. i have clipless (eggbeaters). he was telling me i should try out some flat pedals... i'm thinking about it but i have been riding clipless so long i am really used to it... but i think i am getting to the point where platforms would make more sense...

anyone got any comments? or switched or whatever?

are platforms the same as "regular" pedals?

Originally posted by killerasp
are platforms the same as "regular" pedals?

That depends on what you mean by regular pedals. I'm assuming you mean non-clipless and non-toeclip pedals? However, those can fall into a variety of different pedal types too. There's the traditional quill pedal which can be converted to toeclips and straps and found on older or cheaper bikes especially of the "10-speed" variety. There's the block platform pedal which is nothing more than a block of material (general plastic or sometimes even wood) with relatively smooth surfaces attached to the spindle which are typically found on beach cruisers. And then there's the rat-trap pedal which is a bit more aggressive but pretty closely related to the quill pedal and can also be converted for use with toeclips and straps. These were first seen on BMX bikes but soon made their way to early mountain bikes. The platforms most people I've seen using for freeriding are kind of a cross between the block and rat-trap pedals in that most of them have a more solid platform but they also have pins or some "edging" to capture the soles of shoes.

so i guess mtb platform shoes have little spikes to stick into the shoe, would you need special shoes?

so i guess mtb platform shoes have little spikes to stick into the shoe, would you need special shoes?
well, as i've said, i don't have platforms...

but from what i know - the pedals are large with many "pins" in them that really help you grip the pedals... as for shoes, i'm not sure - you can probably buy special shoes, but i think anything with a flat grippy sole should work - should be about the same as BMX stuff - or light hiking shoes...

Originally posted by danka24
Freeriding involves stunts, jumps, drops, gap jumps.

Originally posted by math2p14
Sorry but i strongly disagree here ,nathank is inline with my views, freeriding is FREE, it is not defined as beeing macho rider going BIG. Its about having fun on a bike, riding harder than pure XC racing style, but more importantly be FREE and DEVOID of any DH/DJ/NS/XC labels in your riding.

math2p14 - yeah that's more what i think. i guess to me Freeride is still in my mind defined by the guys i knew 5 years ago or so who got burned out racing XC and Downhill and always being under "pressure" to ride faster - always training and so much that it took the fun out of "just riding" and the love of mountain biking... so they just quit racing and started having fun --- and in the process they tried out new lines, learned some new riding techniques and developed a relaxed but agressive style...

anyway - that what it means to me. and to me these is not "regular trail" riding b/c you would never see these trails on a regular XC ride/race - and _most_ typical XC riders would not even attempt such trails. i also think you would not see these type of trails on a Downhill course b/c it is so unprepared - fresh rugged hiking trail without banked corners or "fixed" so everything is rideable. on this trail there is one spot where the trail has washed away and you have to hang by a steel cable (for hikers) to get by -- you don't see that in "downhill"

i still race occaisonally (i did 2 races this year and will do one more) and i still "train", but i concentrate or riding challenging stuff confidently - that's a way different goal than being "race-oriented"

but yeah, like Eric said, "Freeriding" has been picked up by the advertisers and marketed as something to sell more ---- a new "angle" that is "cool" and "young" to sell more stuff, but whatever... i just ride.

Nathank, what kind of helmets are you wearing? I like them a lot and i am on the lookout for a trailriding fullface helmet. NICEEEE pics
it's a Casco. i really don't knwo much about them, but i think it's a German company. i had been looking for a lightweight fullface helmet for a while and at the Lake Garda Bike Festival in May i looked around and thought the helmet nice. i got it for a decent price (EUR 150). the face shield is easily removable and then it is basically like a regular helmet excpet a little stronger - has an aluminum piece that runs front front to back for extra support. it weighs a little more but not a lot more than an average helmet. i think it's similar to the Switchblade, but i think a lot cheaper, but i don't really know.

but it's not a "real" downhill helmet and the faceguard is more a "one-time" use as it is just not as strong a say a Motorcross helmet... but then it weighs A LOT less.

i've been really happy with it - w/o the faceguard i now use it as my primary helmet for XC... then often i put the faceguard on the backpack and only use it for the downhill... and like yesterday's ride i just left the faceguard on for the whole ride. it's barely hotter - the main disadvantage being that you can't wipe the sweat off your face as easily.

Michi (the other guy in the photos) has the exact same helmet - just in black - he also likes his and says he finds it much better than the Switchblade.

anyway, as long as you know it's not a super-beefy motorcycle helmet i'd really recommend it!

originaly posted by Transparentit looks like ur running on the edge of ur fork... in pics one and 3 all the travel is used up nice :P

i think you are definitely right... i sometimes think about getting a fork with more travel, but my main thought is this:

if i buy a bike with more travel then i will be able to more easily ride the stuff i currently ride. since i already have trouble finding "challenging" riding (and people crazy enough to come with me - anyone up for Lake Garda the first week of October?!), then i would just have to look even harder. i guess i am also being a little "anti-aid from technology" and prefer rider skill to fancy equipment (not that i'm anti-technology - i'm not) -- i just mean that the trail we rode would not be nearly as challenging with some monster downhill bike with a double-bridge 160mm fork and 3.5" tires... so for less money and effort i can have more challenge and more fun. maybe some day i'll change my mind...

i guess maybe it's kind of like the thinking of the single-speed movement which i find intriguing -- although since i routinely ride up stuff in the 25% grade range a singlespeed is just not an option for me.

i met a guy earlier this year who rides more "trails style" but also rides a lot of steep technical trails. he has a rigid frame (no suspension) with XTR, FAT wheels and tires and a rock ring and the guy can RIDE. i mean he is slower than i am on descents but he gets down stuff like in the photos. THAT is what i find real skill! i have toyed with the idea of building up a rigid trail monster with wide tires... my main "reason" for not is that i do enjoy the cushioning benfits of my rear suspension for my back (i had some minor back problems from repetitive floor-impact from volleyball plus impact from running), plus i don't really miss the numb arms i used to have before my front suspension.

so i'm just turning my XC bike into my own "Freeride" creation... currently with 2.35" tire in the front, 2.5" in the back (much bigger won't fit), adding a chainring guard... and having fun my my 80mm front and 90mm rear travel... hopefully i don't break it (my rear shock is in for service for the 2nd time in 16 months - my fork is in major need of service - and i have destroyed the rear shock bushing 3 times this year - the last ones lasted less than 3 months!)

Thanks man, any weblinks for this brand of helmets?

hmm... just on google "casco helm" - german for helmet...

found a mail order for EUR 149 + 50 = 199 (although EUR 135 is also listed there, probably as the sale price?): http://www.bike-mailorder.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48_65&products_id=522

i didn't find the company website... maybe it's in the product info but it's at home.... oh, wait just found out the company is in Stuttgart... adding that to the search..

http://ex1.casco-helme.com/english/index.htm


Viper MX with Chinguard MTB- and Downhill-Helmet in one!
The top version of the VIPER series offers all a dedicated biker wishes for.
Uphill it is a high-end XC helmet, just click on the chin guard by the adaption
system CONNECT™ and you have on of the safest downhill helmets
you can buy for money, what lab tests prove! Helmet body is fully coated
with Monocoque plus™ (special Inmold procedure) for maximum protection
at lightest weight.
EUR 179,90 suggested price.

Originally posted by nathank
it's a Casco. i really don't knwo much about them, but i think it's a German company. i had been looking for a lightweight fullface helmet for a while and at the Lake Garda Bike Festival in May i looked around and thought the helmet nice. i got it for a decent price (EUR 150). the face shield is easily removable and then it is basically like a regular helmet excpet a little stronger - has an aluminum piece that runs front front to back for extra support. it weighs a little more but not a lot more than an average helmet. i think it's similar to the Switchblade, but i think a lot cheaper, but i don't really know.

but it's not a "real" downhill helmet and the faceguard is more a "one-time" use as it is just not as strong a say a Motorcross helmet... but then it weighs A LOT less.

i've been really happy with it - w/o the faceguard i now use it as my primary helmet for XC... then often i put the faceguard on the backpack and only use it for the downhill... and like yesterday's ride i just left the faceguard on for the whole ride. it's barely hotter - the main disadvantage being that you can't wipe the sweat off your face as easily.



anyway, as long as you know it's not a super-beefy motorcycle helmet i'd really recommend it!

I wish Casco was available in the UK

I wish Casco was available in the UK
hey, i'm sure you can order one.

i think they make 2 sizes (inner band/chassis adjustable) so you should be able to find the right size from your head measurement.

of course, then you can't actually try it on, but...

are platforms the same as "regular" pedals?

Shimano was the first to come out with a platform pedal. This was back in the '80's and they were the "must have" pedal for BMX. Through the years it has been improved, and copied and transformed into many different variations. This is an example of the current DX pedal from Shimano. Notice the little pins, those help keep your foot in place. Any shoes will work with these pedals, however, I would recommend a soft rubber relatively smooth sole like those found on current skateboarding shoes. My preference are VANS, but there are so many now. Just stay away from lugged soles like those found on running shoes.

L8R

so a2psyklnut, do you ride with platforms? if so did you used to ride with clipless? i.e. switch back?

just for wheelie and stunt practice i put my regular old flat pedals (so without "grip" pins) and i feel way uncomfortable without my clipless... and since i have been riding clipless for over 6 years i feel uneasy when unclipped -especially on technical terrain... anyone gone through the "conversion" and what was it like?

note: i would still use clipless for my road riding, and much of my XC riding... is it a difficult thing to ride both pedal styles?

I switch back and forth depending on where I'm going to be riding and with whom. I used to race BMX (back in the days before clipless) so I learned to ride with platforms. I also learned how to bunnyhop without clipless. There is always a transition period (like 10 mins) where you feel a little awkward. To me the biggest difference is the flex in the shoe. When I ride my clipless pedals, my shoe is MUCH stiffer. With my platforms and VANS, my foot tends to flex a lot more, and I actually get more leg cramps when riding long distances.

This may sound wierd, but I have a better "Feel" for the bike with platforms.

L8R

Originally posted by a2psyklnut
Shimano was the first to come out with a platform pedal. This was back in the '80's and they were the "must have" pedal for BMX. Through the years it has been improved, and copied and transformed into many different variations. This is an example of the current DX pedal from Shimano. Notice the little pins, those help keep your foot in place. Any shoes will work with these pedals, however, I would recommend a soft rubber relatively smooth sole like those found on current skateboarding shoes. My preference are VANS, but there are so many now. Just stay away from lugged soles like those found on running shoes.

L8R

Thats good news....shimano with an original idea copied by others, usually its the other way around.....XTR 2003 cranks, splined disc rotors etc...

Originally posted by math2p14
Thats good news....shimano with an original idea copied by others, usually its the other way around.....

I'm not so sure I'd give Shimano the credit for the platform pedal.

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pedalmuseum.quill

Cool Site: I scrolled through and didn't see what I classify as a "Platform" pedal, most shown are what I call a "Caged" pedal. Where there is a pedal cage where your foot meets the pedal. Platform pedals are all one pieces and the original had molded pins. The pedal bodies were all one piece.

At least, that's what "I" think of, when I think of Platform pedals.

Here's a bigger pic of what I'm talking about:

Originally posted by a2psyklnut
Cool Site: I scrolled through and didn't see what I classify as a "Platform" pedal, most shown are what I call a "Caged" pedal. Where there is a pedal cage where your foot meets the pedal. Platform pedals are all one pieces and the original had molded pins. The pedal bodies were all one piece.

At least, that's what "I" think of, when I think of Platform pedals.

Here's a bigger pic of what I'm talking about:

Okay. I guess this is a matter of perverted terminology. Technically or rather historically speaking, the platform pedal was actually single-sided with a large platform area and could be used with toe-clips. Some designs had matching cleats for positioning but were not technically clipless/automatic in nature. The MKS platform is really the only one of this style still being made.

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/images/catpics/14-030.jpg

I do agree that the Shimano DX was the first of its kind of "BMX-style platform" pedal however.

Hey Khuon, I scrolled right past those when I saw they were a single sided road pedal. I agree, the "platform" pedal has been around for a long time, but in today's day and age, the pedal above is what comes to mind when discussing mountain bike pedals.

I don't have these yet, but they're on my "wish list" as my next set of platforms: