Road Bike Racing - Is this sandbagging?

I've been away from the racing scene for 8 years, was a Cat 2 at that time. Started riding a bit more this fall and now feel like im just a few intervals and long rides away from being pretty quick again. So naturally Im thinking about a few local races next year, probably just masters, for fun.

Contacted USA Cycling membership and guess what? They have lost records and would need to create a new account, automatically starting me at a 5. Im a little old, and a little rusty, but mentally im a seasoned racer. So do I bring this up with a District Rep as suggested or leave it as is?

edit: Only thing that would bumb me out is loosing my 5 digit Lic#

You could contact the rep and make a case for the 4's at a minimum. You could get a few wins under your belt then upgrade on points. But I would even think they could get you into the 3's if you made a good enough case and were ready for it.

ha ha

Well, you would certainly be able to post a lot of BF threads in the format of I raced today. I won. That is all.

If you have your druthers, go into the 4's, minimum.

I posted on this topic around this time last year :)

Luckily, they still had my records. Have you done a search on their web site for yourself?

Anyway, I talked to the district rep, and since my records said Cat 3, she let me come back on as a Cat 3 -- even though I hadn't been licensed in 12 years.

I've been away from the racing scene for 8 years, was a Cat 2 at that time. Started riding a bit more this fall and now feel like im just a few intervals and long rides away from being pretty quick again. So naturally Im thinking about a few local races next year, probably just masters, for fun.

Contacted USA Cycling membership and guess what? They have lost records and would need to create a new account, automatically starting me at a 5. Im a little old, and a little rusty, but mentally im a seasoned racer. So do I bring this up with a District Rep as suggested or leave it as is?

edit: Only thing that would bumb me out is loosing my 5 digit Lic#

odd. they still had my 12 year old records when i renewed my USCF license last year.

btw - if you want expert advice on sandbagging, send a PM to BF's resident chiropractor TT expert. ;)

I've been away from the racing scene for 8 years, was a Cat 2 at that time. Started riding a bit more this fall and now feel like im just a few intervals and long rides away from being pretty quick again. So naturally Im thinking about a few local races next year, probably just masters, for fun.

Contacted USA Cycling membership and guess what? They have lost records and would need to create a new account, automatically starting me at a 5. Im a little old, and a little rusty, but mentally im a seasoned racer. So do I bring this up with a District Rep as suggested or leave it as is?

edit: Only thing that would bumb me out is loosing my 5 digit Lic#

Don't know about Texas, but here in NorCal quite a few Masters races are open to all cats. (Which is quite an eye-opener to a 38-year old Cat 5 who figures the 35+ race will be a lot easier than the Cat 5...) So maybe it won't matter, at least for the first few races of the year.

I posted on this topic around this time last year :)

Luckily, they still had my records. Have you done a search on their web site for yourself?

Anyway, I talked to the district rep, and since my records said Cat 3, she let me come back on as a Cat 3 -- even though I hadn't been licensed in 12 years.


Darn. Oh well, never mind.

as long as you are not going to try and stick around in the lower cats I wouldnt consider it sandbagging. If you dont feel like contacting the rep just do a few races in each cat and upgrade early.

8 years is a lifetime. I'd say start as a 4 if you can. Unless you've been training alot, you have no business in a Cat2 race...or a Masters 35+

8 years is a lifetime. I'd say start as a 4 if you can. Unless you've been training alot, you have no business in a Cat2 race...or a Masters 35+

Kind of how I was looking at it, just didn't know if other riders would object.

Race as a 4 and you will be shocked... Its not the CAT 4 from 8 years ago thats for sure.

Race as a 4 and you will be shocked... Its not the CAT 4 from 8 years ago thats for sure.


Huh?

8 years is a lifetime. I'd say start as a 4 if you can. Unless you've been training alot, you have no business in a Cat2 race...or a Masters 35+

Yeah, I was training a lot, but went right into M35+ with no problems. I was in better shape than back when I was a 3, just with hairy legs.

8 years is a lifetime. I'd say start as a 4 if you can. Unless you've been training alot, you have no business in a Cat2 race...or a Masters 35+

While that might be true, the real question isnt if the Cat 5s are OK with you, it's if you're OK with cat 5s. I know I wouldn't want to do a cat 5 race because of skill differential.

I know a few guys with your circumstance, they were re-licensed as 4s after being a 2 and a 5+ yr. layoff.

Race as a 4 and you will be shocked... Its not the CAT 4 from 8 years ago thats for sure.

Shocked might be a little strong. Last time I was shocked was an Olympic Sports festival qualifyer (Points Race) at Major Taylor, now those dudes were fast! Never was much for endurance, pretty much relied on speed, bike handling and savvy. I would think those things wouldn't have changed much in the last 8 years. Certain I can still hang on a wheel and sprint a bit. If I work on anything it will be getting the speed back up.

Race as a 4 and you will be shocked... Its not the CAT 4 from 8 years ago thats for sure.

Yeah, I heard that kind of talk when I came back, but they're really not any faster, IMO. Of course, I went from Colorado to TX... it's slower here.

There is a guy around here (SC/NC) who recently started racing again after a long layoff. Apparently he used to be a Cat1 but USAC had no record so they made him start as a 5. He was pissed and during his first race he rode away from the field. They upgraded him to a 4 after the race.

--Steve

To me sandbagging is winning 20+ races a year, placing second 20+ times, repeat ad nauseum for the next 5 or 6 places, being forcibly upgraded to 2, getting intentionally dropped in the first couple months of the following year, then petitioning to be downgraded due to "change of lifesyle leading to less training".

And repeating the process. For 15+ years. Oh and winning a bunch of National Championships along the way. A Cat 3 National Champion? Puh-leaze. That makes all the 2s and 1s, well, worse, I guess. That's sandbagging like the world was about to end sandbagging.

Here's a situation more like yours:

Guy moves from CT. Cat 2. Something gets lost, he gets issued a Cat 4 (lowest category at the time). He asks for it to be corrected. "If you're really a 2, you'll be a two soon". Back then it was top 3 in 3 races or top 6 in six. He won his first three Cat 4 races, upgraded to 3. He won the next three races he entered, upgraded to 2. And won his first race as a 2 also. Bummer was in one of the Cat 3 races he came flying around me like I was standing still - and I'd just gotten a 50 mph leadout down a hill and we'd gapped the field. I thought I'd won with 50 meters to go but I got second - and my leadout guy, who'd cooked himself, coasted across the line in front of the field in 4th or something.

A more recent story:

A guy called me (I'm the CT rep) and asked me about racing, I think it was this year. His questions were such that I thought he was either an old time good racer or a completely clueless idiot. Ends up he raced with Steve Bauer on the Canadian Olympic team. Of course, he might be 300 lbs etc. I told him to petition the NE rep (only one who can upgrade) if he felt it was appropriate that he race in a higher category, based on his experience on group rides etc. I figure he'd know his fitness level. I think he never held a USA Cycling or USCF license.

He showed up looking like pro - lean, fit, fluent. He raced aggressively in the Masters 40+ until he got dropped - too exuberant. He'd been upgraded, appropriately, to a 3.

If you ride with some guys and feel like you can still hold a straight line, ask to be a 4. If you're antsy about attacking and chasing things down, ask to be a 3. To be a 2 I figure you can earn it back.

cdr

Bummer was in one of the Cat 3 races he came flying around me like I was standing still - and I'd just gotten a 50 mph leadout down a hill and we'd gapped the field. I thought I'd won with 50 meters to go but I got second - and my leadout guy, who'd cooked himself, coasted across the line in front of the field in 4th or something...

...If you ride with some guys and feel like you can still hold a straight line, ask to be a 4. If you're antsy about attacking and chasing things down, ask to be a 3.

cdr

Good story, kind of rolled over by the karma express :lol: That sounds like a pretty reasonable approach cdr. Im not really hung up on the label at this point, I know what I was and what I am now.

Huh?


Ive been away from racing since the mid 90s. The CAT 4s in this area are on a different level than the CAT 4s from 10 years ago.

Racing as a whole in the US has stepped it up a notch.

It would seem to me you should start back as a 4. IIRC the rulebook says that once upgraded from the 5's you can never downgrade. (although in practice you can simply by applying for a new license after a break in time.)

Also, if you get a new license as a 5, you're entitled to an upgrade to the 4's simply by presenting evidence of 10 mass start races. So if they start you back as a 5, just give your district rep a race resume showing more than 10 mass start races. to my knowledge there's no time frame in which the 10 races hadd to be completed.

I went from Colorado to TX... it's slower here.


Time to check out the property values in TX again, plus I am guessing nobody in TX had to shovel 9 inches of snow off their driveway this morning:D

I may be moving to the States at some point in 2008 and as I understand it, I'll have to start at Cat 5.

Could actually be fun if no one crashes into me.

Time to check out the property values in TX again, plus I am guessing nobody in TX had to shovel 9 inches of snow off their driveway this morning:D

Yeah, I'm getting ready to go out in the 72 degree December weather right now. House prices are higher in Austin than in the rest of TX though... but you could probably still get three of our houses for one Denver house. Stupid mountain tax.

Yeah, I'm getting ready to go out in the 72 degree December weather right now.

That wasn't very nice, the f'n plow just came by again, third time this morning, just keeps building up the barrier he created earlier at the end of the driveway. Since its still coming down, I will wait him out, I know he will be back again, and again.

You'll love this, two sundays ago, I had to walk the switchbacks on Lookout becuase I couldn'd get a grip on the ice.

And could someone explain why my Red Raiders are playing on New Years and the Horns are playing on the 27th.

I am going snow loonie in Golden!

That wasn't very nice, the f'n plow just came by again, third time this morning, just keeps building up the barrier he created earlier at the end of the driveway. Since its still coming down, I will wait him out, I know he will be back again, and again.

You'll love this, two sundays ago, I had to walk the switchbacks on Lookout becuase I couldn'd get a grip on the ice.

And could someone explain why my Red Raiders are playing on New Years and the Horns are playing on the 27th.

I am going snow loonie in Golden!

Yeah, I've been on Lookout when it's like that. No fun. Next comes the sand until May. Ugh.

Icy Lookout was always my cue to take the MTB over to Mt. Falcon or White Ranch if I was looking to climb. Still lots of walking, but not as annoying for some reason.

That wasn't very nice, the f'n plow just came by again, third time this morning, just keeps building up the barrier he created earlier at the end of the driveway. Since its still coming down, I will wait him out, I know he will be back again, and again.

You'll love this, two sundays ago, I had to walk the switchbacks on Lookout becuase I couldn'd get a grip on the ice.

And could someone explain why my Red Raiders are playing on New Years and the Horns are playing on the 27th.

I am going snow loonie in Golden!


Time to get out the skate skis. I skied for an hour and a half at north Boulder park Sunday and will probably be out there today and tomorrow at lunch. It makes getting back on the trainer much more manageable.

I've been away from the racing scene for 8 years, was a Cat 2 at that time.

Welcome back ! I was in your shoes a year ago. 12 years off, started riding again. I had to get a new license, and it came as a 5. I sent an email asking to upgrade to a 4 based on previous cat 2 experience and got it with no questions asked. So I'm a 4, and master 45+. I got a few placings in crits and I'm finally in decent shape as of this past fall, so I'll see if I can do a little better in 2008. Those masters races are pretty brisk though !!

Welcome back ! I was in your shoes a year ago. 12 years off, started riding again. I had to get a new license, and it came as a 5. I sent an email asking to upgrade to a 4 based on previous cat 2 experience and got it with no questions asked. So I'm a 4, and master 45+. I got a few placings in crits and I'm finally in decent shape as of this past fall, so I'll see if I can do a little better in 2008. Those masters races are pretty brisk though !!


Thanks Homebrew, im surprised at how quickly some things have come back. My speed is right there & still have some jump, although recovery is the pits. Guess to quote a country song "i ain't as good as i once was, but im as good once as i ever was".

Responding to training pretty much the same, so I know how to put the pieces together. I followed waterrockets suggestion and did a search of the USA Cycling site, found I was still in there. The number was not my old USCF#, was trying to find an old UCI Lic. to see if it correlated to that.

That's funny. I have been away from racing for almost 11 years now and they still have all my records. But if it's a hassle to get an instant upgrade, just kick @$$ until you get enough points and upgrade then do it quickly. If you like the taste of victory that you wait all year to upgrade, then that's sandbagging.