Advocacy & Safety - I think my friend is whacked!

...but that's just me. I'll put it to a poll to see what others think.

I had an argument with a friend at work this morning over who would be worse off when a motorist collides with a cyclist.

Regardless of who was in the right or wrong, he says a motorist is worse off than the cyclist in a collision because the motorist has to live with the guilt of hitting the cyclist for the rest of his/her life.

I say the cyclist is worse off.

Is my friend whacked or what?

We're working together for the next 6 hours or so and we leave at the same time. Let me let him know what you think.

The cyclist if injured, the cyclist's family and friends if killed.

Is my friend whacked or what?

Simply stated ..... yes.

... Brad

You need new friends...

Like it's not emotionally scarring to be run over.

It is a tragic outcome for all parties involved.

Your friend is a Democrat also, am I right?

Tough call...the moron who clipped me with a trailer on Feb. 18th of this year (and put me on the ground at 40 mph :eek:) started to experience chest pains as I was being transported to the hospital via ambulance. He was an overweight diabetic who'd not taken his insulin that day, and they had to call for a second ambulance to transport him.

In addition, he was uninsured and was found at fault in the police report. He'll probably have both his license and his vehicle registration suspended until he gets insurance. And my insurance company will probably go after him for whatever assets he might have (though, that may be a dry well).


As for me - nothing broken, though I do still have visible scars. My insurance covered the cost of a new road bike, plus the settlement for "pain and suffering" allowed me to buy a TT bike (which I now use for my own pain and suffering :D).

All things considered - I came out of it better off than the guy that hit me. But, it's a really tough way to "earn" a new bike.

Your friend is whacked, but I think cyclists often underestimate how important it is to drivers to avoid hitting a cyclist, if nothing else to avoid having to live with the guilt your friend is talking about. This explains why cyclists are often so perplexed at how and why motorists get so aggravated with them.

The cool thing is that once you realize and appreciate this, you can learn to use it to your advantage. What you want to do is make it easy for motorists to notice you early (so that they're not surprised) and make it obvious as you can what they should do to avoid hitting you.

I know. I always wondered why people threw beer bottles at me, or slowed way down to scream in my ear, or slap me on the rear. They were just scared I guess!

thanks :rolleyes:

What guilt? The motorist will blame the cyclist for being in the road.

Speedo

I suppose there may be cases where motorists got real hung up on collisions that caused minimal injuries that the cyclist soon forgot about.

I would think these are the exception rather than the rule.

Your friend is whacked, but I think cyclists often underestimate how important it is to drivers to avoid hitting a cyclist, if nothing else to avoid having to live with the guilt your friend is talking about. This explains why cyclists are often so perplexed at how and why motorists get so aggravated with them.

The cool thing is that once you realize and appreciate this, you can learn to use it to your advantage. What you want to do is make it easy for motorists to notice you early (so that they're not surprised) and make it obvious as you can what they should do to avoid hitting you.

You'd think if there was so much guilt involved, that the idea of "looking twice," slowing down, and really stopping at reds before blasting off might work to resolve some of that aggravation.

Of course if motorists find it so hard to live with guilt, imagine the cyclists' feelings of "living" with death or dismemberment. Boy, I bet that's tough.

You'd think if there was so much guilt involved, that the idea of "looking twice," slowing down, and really stopping at reds before blasting off might work to resolve some of that aggravation.

Of course if motorists find it so hard to live with guilt, imagine the cyclists' feelings of "living" with death or dismemberment. Boy, I bet that's tough.
Yes, I know it's whacked for a motorist to be so narcissistic to not see that the cyclist would be worse off.

But it's also narcissistic for a cyclist to not see how his behavior makes drivers nervous and anxious, and not realizing how it is natural and human to be angry at someone who makes you nervous and anxious.

Yes, there is room for understanding on both sides, but cyclists should be much more motivated to make the move, for we have the most to lose. And once we understand, we can behave in ways that brings understanding of us to them, and that's how we drop the whole us/them thing, and become one.

I'm lovin the responses so far. It's been busy here but I've looked in, let him know what the resposnse has been here and he wants everyone to know he thinks we're just a bunch of bike geeks!

It all started this morning when I was in a left hand turn bay where the advance left turn arrow is triggered by a sensor.

There are no cars with me in the bay as the traffic that is going through the intersection is backed up past the entry point of the bay. My friend is back there and can see me.

The cycle comes up where the signal should have been on but didn't because this particular sensor is set only to recognize the heft of a car. The through traffic gets the green light and I wait until I can see there is no oncoming traffic and go through the red to make my left. (I've actually had correspondence with YVR, the municipality and the police about this and the upshot of what I was told is that if the light does not change for me, I'm to consider it a non-functioning traffic light and to proceed when clear with caution)

He was all confused by my turn, sure I was in the wrong but when I explained the rules he said,

"what if someone was going through the green when I was going through the red and hit me? The driver would be devastated with guilt for hitting you!"

I explained to him how wacked he was, but to be fair, I'd put the point up for discussion.

Did I say, I'm lovin' it already?

What guilt? The motorist will blame the cyclist for being in the road.

Speedo

We had the same talk a few years ago where he said pretty much the same thing.

That cyclists shouldn't be on the road because they might get hit and then the motorist would have to live with that forthe rest of his/her life.

Like it's not emotionally scarring to be run over.

I do that at least 2-3 times a day to help me get awake and ready for the day.

He was all confused by my turn, sure I was in the wrong but when I explained the rules he said,

"what if someone was going through the green when I was going through the red and hit me? The driver would be devastated with guilt for hitting you!"


Sure the driver would wonder what the heck they had done wrong... and the city of course would feel no remorse for installing sensors that don't detect cyclists (or are not adjusted properly) and thus the "state" which has no feelings, has instead determined that cyclists should take it upon themselves to provide for their own safety... which your friend should feel no guilt for.

On the other hand, the whole idea that your friend thought that the turn was wrong, or illegal, shows yet again that motorists need some education regarding other users of the road... from peds to cyclists... etc.

Motorists need to know they do not in fact own the road. Turn your friend on to this concept: Motorists are granted the privilege (via license) to use the road, that cyclists have the right to use. That ought to really freak him out.

I do that at least 2-3 times a day to help me get awake and ready for the day.

only 2-3 times, why I run smack dab into walls to wake myself up, and before sunrise.

Is my friend whacked or what?No, he's whack. If he were whacked, he'd be dead.

;)

...Turn your friend on to this concept: Motorists are granted the privilege (via license) to use the road, that cyclists have the right to use. That ought to really freak him out.

I'll do it, but I'm pretty sure he's already somewhat of a freak.

OK, who's the one who thinks the motorist is worse off?

No, he's whack. If he were whacked, he'd be dead.

;)


I kinda think he's dead in the head :)

He said tonight he's going on drivers.com and start his own thread

I kinda think he's dead in the head :)That's where they usually get whacked...back of the head. :lol:

Your friend is whacked, but I think cyclists often underestimate how important it is to drivers to avoid hitting a cyclist, if nothing else to avoid having to live with the guilt your friend is talking about. This explains why cyclists are often so perplexed at how and why motorists get so aggravated with them.

Wait for it...wait for it!

Aaaaaaand here's the spin!!!


The cool thing is that once you realize and appreciate this, you can learn to use it to your advantage. What you want to do is make it easy for motorists to notice you early (so that they're not surprised) and make it obvious as you can what they should do to avoid hitting you.

It's tragic for all involved parties, but I feel that being dead is worse off than feeling guilty.

People that really would feel guilty for the rest of their lives will actually pay attention to doing things safely, before something happens. All the rest will keep doing what they've been doing without changing.

People that really would feel guilty for the rest of their lives will actually pay attention to doing things safely, before something happens. All the rest will keep doing what they've been doing without changing.

Good point.

The 2 drivers that I was able to talk to after they hit me defintely did not feel guilty. They were more pi**ed off that they were involved in a bit of trouble than concerned for me.

The by-standers who were standing by when I was hit were far more concerned for me than the drivers were.

I always love the bleeding heart 'they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives'.

Please. They'll feel bad for about a month, then their rationalization instincts will kick in: "He shouldn't have been on the road while I as text messaging while driving", "He shouldn't have stopped at that red light!"

Whenever someone pulls out the 'live with it for the rest of the their lives" I am reminded of the end of the movie "Crimes and Misdemeanors" where Martin Landau all but confesses to Woody Allen that he arranged to have his mistress killed:

"And after the awful deed is done, he finds that he's plagued by deep-rooted guilt. Little sparks of his religious background which he'd rejected are suddenly stirred up. He hears his father's voice. He imagines that God is watching his every move. Suddenly, it's not an empty universe, but a just and moral one, and he's violated it. Now, he's panic-stricken. He's on the verge of a mental collapse-an inch away from confessing the whole thing to the police. And then one morning, he awakens. The sun is shining, his family is around him and mysteriously, the crisis has lifted. He takes his family on a vacation to Europe and as the months pass, he finds he's not punished. In fact, he prospers. The killing gets attributed to another person-a drifter who has a number of other murders to his credit, so I mean, what the hell? One more doesn't even matter. Now he's scott-free. His life is completely back to normal. Back to his protected world of wealth and privilege."

a great moment from a great film and I think, applicable in many instances. I'll suggest it but I don't think he'll get it (do these "types" ever do?)

...who would be worse off when a motorist collides with a cyclist[?] ...
Many people stay off bicycles because of the danger injury. How many avoid driving automobiles because they're afraid of injuring someone else?

Anyone who regularly drives a car and also claims that guilt is a greater horror than bodily injury is being disingenuous. Their actual belief is revealed in their action.

Come on, this is like the old joke about the boy who kills his parents and then argues to the judge that his sentence should be reduced because he has to live with the trauma of being an orphan. Please.

I think the answer depends on the people and circumstances involved. Minor accident, some drivers are going to be way more freaked out than the person who was hit. I saw that in my motorcycle accident. The lady who hit me was crying and I was trying to console her! But it could have been different if I had been hit by a different person, someone who would have cursed me out or something instead.

After a major accident, some people will be guilt-ridden and others will start with the rationalizations right away. Kill a little kid and some people are ruined for life, others are like 'feckin' stupid ass kid deserved to get killed'. It really all depends on the people and circumstances.