Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Fats

This may turn into a lively discussion but then so be it :)

What should we look at in terms of fat? If we subscribe into the calorie (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=264075) is just (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=264792) a calorie theory then the types of fats should be inconsequential to any sort of weight loss or gain and actually the ratios should also not matter either. If the theory is more along a high protein (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363446) diet (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=231402) then the type of fat also shouldn't matter. But we hear about using olive oil and staying away from animal fats in cooking along with the dangers of saturated fat for weight loss/gain (not to mention heart disease).

For example - I had an avocado earlier. I'm contemplating having another - but according to ye olde fitday one avocado has 27 grams of fat. Having another will sky rocket my fat intake for the day and already it will be hard to stay under the limit (trying to stay below 65g). In terms of 'good vs bad' fat though it's much better than saying having a small steak. If I don't care about the types of food (as in a calorie is just a calorie) then I could easily have another since I'm way under my calories for the day and not really care about the ratios (of fat-carb-protein). If the ratios are important than having another would be a bad thing.

Thoughts?

Having another will sky rocket my fat intake for the day and already it will be hard to stay under the limit (trying to stay below 65g).


65g? Wimp. :D

If everything goes as planned, I should hit 101g today (36% of my calorie intake). But only 17g is saturated fat. I guess that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

Well, it takes more energy to burn a fat molecule than it does to burn a sugar or more complex carbohydrate molecule. Thus, limiting fat intake without increasing your exercise at a fat-burning level isn't that good.

All the talk about fats/carbs/sugars has it's good and bad points, but burning more calories than you intake is the key to losing weight.

Having a decently well-rounded diet is also relatively important in terms of genereal health. Too much of anything is not really a good thing, be it carbs, fats, sugars, whatever.

Air,
Your discussion makes sense, however, it is not necessarily just "fat" it is the type of fat that seems to e the issue. For example, fat from fish (the omegas) are good for us. The fat from Oreos (which used to be the "bad" fats may still be "bad". You eating an avocado is not bad, it is natural. I think the other issue is "natural fats" vs processed or synthetic fats. I am not sure where I am going with all this but the bottom line is not all fats are alike. Our body does need fat, just the right kind like you find in natural food.

It's the type, definitely! For example, Butter is better than Margarine (except for the Olive Oil type, or transfat free margarines, you know the heart smart stuff), because it's a natural fat that most people can assimilate easily.The exception, of course, is if you're lactose intolerant......

Omega 3 fats = good
Natural fats in food, in correct balance = good.

Transfats = TERRIBLE! Margarine was invented to make Turkeys fatter for slaughter, believe it or not, and it caused a higher % of early mortality in Turkeys from Coronary Artery Disease. (I'm not kidding here! :eek: ) Traditional margarine is nearly a plastic compound.

(Sorry Tom, but you know these questions are coming now ;) )

OK - so when you say 'good' and 'terrible' does that relate to weight loss or just heart disease?

If a calorie is a calorie then 2 grams of Omega 3 fats should be processed the same as 2 grams of Natural fats and 2 grams of transfats. Does it?

Also if a calorie is a calorie then the fat that's taken in shouldn't have a bearing on weight losss/gain, right?

Going back to the original hypothetical - if I decrease the 'bad fats' the same amount as I increase the 'good fats' then have I done anything positive or negative for weight gain or only for my circulatory system? I would think that if the good fats are processed easier than they would be less calories which I don't think is the case.

[I know I've said this before but for anyone new to my questions I was a theoretical math major...need hard guidelines that balance equations for me to accept it and be happy. Sorry in advance! ;) )

From the Cardiac standpoint......:) What good does it do you to have a buff bod and die of Coronary Artery disease? ;)

Transfats process differently and contribute to the bad cholesterol and plug up the ol' arteries.

Alternatively, the other more metabolizable fats contribute to total cholesterol, but the good kind, mostly. It also helps break up the bad cholesterol.

"A calorie is a calorie" isn't exactly true.

A fat molecule is more complex, and has stronger bonds than does a carb or simple sugar molecule. Thus, your body has to expend additional energy to break those fat molecule bonds than it would in sugars or carbs.

Granted, if all you took in was a single type of molecule, it wouldnn't matter, but your body will break down sugars first, then carbs (simple then complex), and finally fat molecules to extract energy from them.

Your body gets the most energy from burning fat molecules, but it also expends the most energy in burning them.

It's not as simple as looking at isolated figures and food types.

Weight loss and gain is still done from calorie intake and calorie burn. The fats are going to need to be burned, but different fats do different things in and to your body. Does that make any sense????

You can watch your calorie intake and watch your fat intake at the same time. Eating an avocado will not be something that will cause you to not burn calories.


Avocado information below:


Avocados, despite being high in fat are very good for you, and have many health promoting properities.
They are an excellent food for weight loss as well. Fat In Avocado- Avocados have a huge amount of fat, 25-35 grams on average, and an avocado is close to 300 calories. Still, one 30 gram serving is equal to 1 Weight Watcher point, and is better for you nutritionally than many other popular one point snacks.

A good source of vitamin K, dietary fiber, vitamin B6, vitamin C, folate, copper, and contain more potassium than a medium banana- 877 grams of potassium in one avocado vs 470 grams in a banana. And much less sugar!



Avocados have a fat content of between 71 to 88% of their total calories - about 20 times the average for other fruits. A typical avocado contains 30 grams of fat, but 20 of these fat grams are health-promoting monounsaturated fats, especially oleic acid.

Thanks all!

So if I'm getting this right say I'm keeping a 30-50-20 ratio of fat - carbs - protein. With a 2000 calorie diet that's 600 - 1000 - 400 or 67g of fat - 250g carb - 100g protein (the 2000 calorie diet could be debated but that's in a few of the links in the OP - just trying to establish some numbers to work with). According to fitday (I know, not perfect) let's say I only had these two things to eat left in the house:

1/8 of a 16" thick crust cheese pizza: 359 calories, 12 grams of fat
1 Avocado: 279 calories, 27 grams of fat.

Let's say I'm staying within those ratios and want to keep my fat down below that 67g from above and let's say I'm at 50g for the day right now. Technically that slice of pizza would actually be the thing to eat so I don't go above my target (though my heart wouldn't like me very much). If I was worried more about my cholesterol than weight loss than the avocado is the thing to eat. Correct?

Again, the point of the numbers for me is to lock down how to track my foods and how much weight to put on certain figures.

I know many who justify fat things because they are healthy or natural fats. Things like avacado, nuts, etc..... However, I subscribe that if you are trying to lose weight you should "try" to stay away from ALL fats. If you MUST eat something with a high fat content, then the healthy/natural ones are a better choice, but in the long run fat is fat.

Then there are things like trans fats which like Tom said are TERRIBLE (IMO, damn near POISON). You definitely want to stay away from saturated fats too.

So in order of preference (to summarize):
1. No fats
2. Natural Fats
3. Regular (non-saturated) fats

I'm not even adding TRANS-FATS to the list....as I wouldn't even wan them in my preference list.

So just protein and carbs?

Not really. A little fat is not bad for you.

Eat what's best for you. That might not be the same as what's best for me.

Once you figure out what works, run with it.

Also if a calorie is a calorie then the fat that's taken in shouldn't have a bearing on weight losss/gain, right?

So very WRONG!

(I'm not trying to be rude, just get your attention and drive the point home)

Weight loss is ALL about METABOLISM!

Did you know that diet cola is not 100% "fat" free? Sure, it has no calories, but a tiny portion of your metabolism is required to break down the dyes in the soda. That tiny amount of metabolism is stolen away from the fat on your body that it could be breaking down. This is pretty much true for anything synthetic.

And alcohol is the worst, requires some of your metabolism to break it down (obviously, but...) it slows your metabolism down too!

I'm not saying to give up all synthetic stuff. And I sure won't give up my tasty wine or beer!

So, a calorie isn't just a calorie and everything* you put into your body requires some of your metabolism to break it down.

* of course, water doesn't and there's studies to suggest that grapefruits, coffee and other things actually improve/help your liver do a better job, thereby increasing your metabolism.

by the way, you need good carbs, good proteins, -and- good fats to be healthy or your muscles, brain, and everything else will suffer.

I know many who justify fat things because they are healthy or natural fats. Things like avacado, nuts, etc..... However, I subscribe that if you are trying to lose weight you should "try" to stay away from ALL fats. If you MUST eat something with a high fat content, then the healthy/natural ones are a better choice, but in the long run fat is fat.

Then there are things like trans fats which like Tom said are TERRIBLE (IMO, damn near POISON). You definitely want to stay away from saturated fats too.

So in order of preference (to summarize):
1. No fats
2. Natural Fats
3. Regular (non-saturated) fats

I'm not even adding TRANS-FATS to the list....as I wouldn't even wan them in my preference list.

I'm pretty sure that your brain will suffer big time if you cut out fats. I think low GOOD cholesterol will shut your body down. You also need good fats for a healthy digestive system. No fats will likely lead to a dangerous case of constipation.

Please, do NOT give such idiotic advice unless you can back it up with facts. It's so very dangerous.

Am I positive about what I said, no, but from what little I know, your advice is horrible.

EVERYONE, before making a drastic change like cutting out completely carbs, protein or fats, talk to your doctor or nutritionist. I'm almost positive that removing one of them for an extended period will fock you up.

My inlaws had all this nutrition stuff figured out about 5 years ago. Only now, they have different ideas.

Meanwhile, my wife's cousin says the doctor told him, "If it tastes good, just spit it out!". That's probably as good a strategy as any.

Looking at fats as good and bad is very simplistic. Fats are very beneficial, especially saturated fats. There are certain times to eat certain foods that will really help you. Look at the different hormones that are at work and try to use them to your advantage. If you have just participated in strenuous exercise you need to raise your insulin level so your body can repair any damage that has just occurred and preserve muscle mass so it is not used to replenish glycogen. In this case you would avoid fat because it would slow the absorption of glucose, thus slowing down the repair process. You may want to eat something that will shoot your blood sugar through the roof like a baked potato. To enhance the efficacy of this process take in some lean protein, or fast digesting protein, like whey.

When you are realtivly inactive you may want to have fewer carbs. Try eating some fats, protein and some slow digesting carbs, or something low carb like vegetables or fruits, which have lots of nutrients. The fats that you ate will keep you full longer because it slows gastric emtying. Fat is also needed to absorb vitamins A, D, E and K.

Try to get your fat from natural sources, and don't eat too much of it at one time, but that goes with anything if you don't want to gain weight.

A calorie is just a calorie, but the other conditions in your body that you induce at the time. If your body is looking to rebuild itself it will use the calories to add muscle and glycogen. If you are sitting around eating fries and chips with gravy then it will be used to add fat on to you.

Start with manipulating your insulin. If you eat a large amount of potatoes then a whole load of fat you will be encouraging your body to build fat stores. You raised your insulin level, then dumped a bunch of fat in to the mix so your body will readily store it.

Don't eat too many calories in a day, but make sure to eat the right foods at the right time. Keep to real foods not strange chemicals that try and pass for food. Don't be scared of eating fat, just don't eat too much of it at the wrong time.

I'm almost positive that removing one of them for an extended period will fock you up.


If you don't have the facts, you should not be posting something like that.

There was another part of your post that was shocking also. What do you consider a low GOOD cholesterol reading. What the United States uses, or what the rest of the world uses? I am just asking a simple question, so please do not take this the wrong way. I am not trying to start a war, I am just asking a question.

Quick article on the needs for cholesterol (http://www.healthexplored.co.uk/news/article.php?id=15).

I know many who justify fat things because they are healthy or natural fats. Things like avacado, nuts, etc..... However, I subscribe that if you are trying to lose weight you should "try" to stay away from ALL fats. If you MUST eat something with a high fat content, then the healthy/natural ones are a better choice, but in the long run fat is fat.

Then there are things like trans fats which like Tom said are TERRIBLE (IMO, damn near POISON). You definitely want to stay away from saturated fats too.

So in order of preference (to summarize):
1. No fats
2. Natural Fats
3. Regular (non-saturated) fats

I'm not even adding TRANS-FATS to the list....as I wouldn't even wan them in my preference list.

This is just my opinion and its amazing how two people could differ so much. Don't stay away from fats. Fats are essential oils. Your body needs them to work. Fats don't have too much impact on weight loss at all!! They can even help lose weight. Sure there are bad fats and these have to be minimised but use your common sense. This fella can explain it better than me!

http://www.udoerasmus.com/firstscreen.htm

It's the type, definitely! For example, Butter is better than Margarine (except for the Olive Oil type, or transfat free margarines, you know the heart smart stuff), because it's a natural fat that most people can assimilate easily.The exception, of course, is if you're lactose intolerant......

Omega 3 fats = good
Natural fats in food, in correct balance = good.

Transfats = TERRIBLE! Margarine was invented to make Turkeys fatter for slaughter, believe it or not, and it caused a higher % of early mortality in Turkeys from Coronary Artery Disease. (I'm not kidding here! :eek: ) Traditional margarine is nearly a plastic compound.

There are degrees of lactose intolerance. The amount of butter used in cooking or consumed on morning toast and dinner rolls probably wouldn't cause problems for most of us who are lactose intolerant. I can consume butter, yogurt, cheese, and ice cream in moderate quantities without marked ill effects. The little bit of milk I had before my Cherry Hill to home ride about three weeks ago, on the other hand, caused me to make three unexpected stops at businesses along the Schuylkill River Trail, and eventually SAG 12 miles from my house.

Thanks all!

So if I'm getting this right say I'm keeping a 30-50-20 ratio of fat - carbs - protein. With a 2000 calorie diet that's 600 - 1000 - 400 or 67g of fat - 250g carb - 100g protein (the 2000 calorie diet could be debated but that's in a few of the links in the OP - just trying to establish some numbers to work with). According to fitday (I know, not perfect) let's say I only had these two things to eat left in the house:

1/8 of a 16" thick crust cheese pizza: 359 calories, 12 grams of fat
1 Avocado: 279 calories, 27 grams of fat.

Let's say I'm staying within those ratios and want to keep my fat down below that 67g from above and let's say I'm at 50g for the day right now. Technically that slice of pizza would actually be the thing to eat so I don't go above my target (though my heart wouldn't like me very much). If I was worried more about my cholesterol than weight loss than the avocado is the thing to eat. Correct?

Again, the point of the numbers for me is to lock down how to track my foods and how much weight to put on certain figures.

I think you are overthinking this, Air. I found that as I calorie counted the fats took care of themselves. 2000 calories of lard and 2000 calories of oatmeal are the same number of calories, but the oatmeal is going to be a lot more filling, and you will be better nourished. And while my dietary changes weren't as drastic as replacing lard with oatmeal, replacing some meats with healthier meats and vegetables, and limiting eggs and dairy products did the trick.

Unfortunately, people get hung up on the numbers and claim weight loss is difficult. It's only as difficult as you make it.

This is just my opinion and its amazing how two people could differ so much. Don't stay away from fats. Fats are essential oils. Your body needs them to work. Fats don't have too much impact on weight loss at all!! They can even help lose weight. Sure there are bad fats and these have to be minimised but use your common sense. This fella can explain it better than me!

http://www.udoerasmus.com/firstscreen.htm

Whoa - excellent link. By the way, this page (http://www.udoerasmus.com/FAQ/FAQ_index_en.htm) is a great leaping off point even though it's one big teaser for his book and oil blend.

In short caloric intake is less important than types of fats. He recommends a 2:1 ratio of n-3 (found in flax seeds) to n-6 (found in sesame, sunflower oil, fatty fish (herring, sardines, salmon, mackerel, trout, tuna)).

He also makes an interesting point about saturated fats being natural from animals and that too much carbs will be converted to saturated fat in the body.

Oh, and the solution to yesterday's question was to go to bed early and hungry.

I think you are overthinking this, Air. I found that as I calorie counted the fats took care of themselves. 2000 calories of lard and 2000 calories of oatmeal are the same number of calories, but the oatmeal is going to be a lot more filling, and you will be better nourished. And while my dietary changes weren't as drastic as replacing lard with oatmeal, replacing some meats with healthier meats and vegetables, and limiting eggs and dairy products did the trick.

Unfortunately, people get hung up on the numbers and claim weight loss is difficult. It's only as difficult as you make it.

Actually I think I could suck down 2000 calories of oatmeal without thinking of it but could only get through a few spoonfuls of lard before I was stuffed. The fat is much harder to digest. I find it with salads too - a tablespoon of olive oil will make the salad a bit more filling than just eating vegetables alone (which in large quantities usually make me feel ill and lethargic anyway). I don't use 1% turkey anymore because I found I had to eat more of it in order to feel full.

I went through a period last year about now where I watched everything I ate to the drop but my exercise tailed off - was down to about 2200 calories a day which for my 6-1" 260# frame (at the time with swing dancing a few times a week) should have been fine to at least maintain weight but I packed on 2 pounds per week. I have beef maybe twice a month, only eat turkey (allergic to chicken), don't drink milk or eat eggs, only keep extra virgin olive oil in the kitchen, avoid processed sugar and bleached flour sticking to whole wheat flour/pasta and brown rice, and most of my veggies are raw or just slightly cooked. In short almost every healthy thing I can think of to replace and swap with. Ever since I never really paid attention to calories and just tried to eat healthier but now I'm touching 290 (and all the wheel issues this summer didn't help with the exercising). So my questions are specific because losing weight with diet has never been successful but I want to track and understand where I'd need to make a change. That and I almost can't leave the house because nothing fits.

Going back to that example I know most would choose the avocado and I didn't come up with the example as a trap. If trying to maintain a balanced food intake means the avocado will mean too much fat for that day than isn't it better to eat something else if the type of fat is inconsequential to weight loss (i.e., a gram of fat is a gram of fat)?

I went through a period last year about now where I watched everything I ate to the drop but my exercise tailed off - was down to about 2200 calories a day which for my 6-1" 260# frame (at the time with swing dancing a few times a week) should have been fine to at least maintain weight but I packed on 2 pounds per week.



Something is seriously wrong with you or your numbers. You should not add 2lbs/week at 2200 calories/day when you're 6'1" and 260 lbs unless maybe you were bedridden or something.

I wouldn't worry about your fat intake too much until you figure that out.

Something is seriously wrong with you or your numbers. You should not add 2lbs/week at 2200 calories/day when you're 6'1" and 260 lbs unless maybe you were bedridden or something.

I wouldn't worry about your fat intake too much until you figure that out.

It's often the numbers. Self-reporting is terribly unreliable. Speaking from experience, fat people claim they eat nothing and gain weight. In most cases, it doesn't work that way. I don't know, of course, if that is the problem the OP is experiencing.

Self-reporting is terribly unreliable. Speaking from experience, fat people claim they eat nothing and gain weight.

I have pretty much the same experience. I've been counting calories for many years now, and I don't think I've ever been 100% truthful. At least I lie consistently these days so I can use a fudge factor to make the numbers work. :D

Before that month I was using Fitday mostly to track my miles and throw in the major foods I was eating (so if I took a handful of carrots I wouldn't bother putting that in). I dropped weight during the summer and I was riding a good amount. As it got colder during that month I measured out bit by bit and had a great ratio of 30-50-20 to make sure I didn't gain any of it back. I did spectacularly. After that I just said **** it in terms of measuring and tracking.

But I'm back. I know diet alone won't do squat but just trying to understand how this whole nutrition thing works would be a good start and hopefully help others who have questions or are confused.

I still find it funny that we can put a man on the moon or send probes to mars but we can't get to the bottom of the ocean or have a clear cut picture of nutrition. Every few years one thing is the good thing to eat and something else that was good is now death. Remember when butter was considered evil because it was loaded in fat so everyone had margarine? Now margarine is the evil thing. And now some say the low fat diet is the cause of obesity and we need more fat in our diet while others tell us we are eating too much fat. It gets very confusing and frustrating for a noob very quickly. Even the simplistic calories consumed < calories burned thing people love to post doesn't make sense depending on who you talk to.[/end rant]

Air, it isn't any specific food item. It's an overabundance of food items. We're wired to store on fat for lean times, and given the plenty in current times, this can be a potentially lethal expression of a genetic predisposition. This is one that can be avoided though through some increase in activity, and making sane choices, nutritionally.

Knowledge is power over this. Keep a proper balance in types of calories in, and moderation in the total intake and you have a good start. ;) Add in the additional activity and unless you have an endocrine disorder, it's a pretty simple equation of (Calories in<calories out)= weight loss.

But I'm back. I know diet alone won't do squat but just trying to understand how this whole nutrition thing works would be a good start and hopefully help others who have questions or are confused.

Good Luck. I've often wished I could just go to the store, buy a big bag of Dog Chow for the dog, and a big bag of People Chow for me. Get fat? Eat less. Get too skinny? Eat more. Easy. :)

Sadly, the science of nutrition has way too many variables to account for. The best they can manage is driving down the road looking at the rearview mirror.

I don't worry about it a whole lot. It's pretty obvious what constitutes junk food (My rule: If I can't make it myself at home, it probably is), so I avoid that as much as humanly possible. Other than that, I just try not to eat too much of the good stuff and hope for the best.

I do disagree on the diet alone part. While exercise is a very important part of a healthy lifestyle, diet is what will make the pounds come off.

Oh, I hit 104g of fat last night. That tuna fish was just calling my name. :D

Keep a proper balance in types of calories in, and moderation in the total intake and you have a good start. ;)

I guess this is what I'm wrapping my head around. Going back up to that example, if I were to eat 'balanced' meals throughout the day an avocado would be 40% of my day's fat intake on something that will not fill up 40% of my day. The logical side of my brain says that's will never be a good food choice. The other side says it's natural and good for me so I should. If I'm tracking everything I'm eating then that choice really limits what I can have the rest of the day - if I had two avocados technically I could barely eat any fat for the rest of the day. If a gram of fat is a gram of fat then yes, I count that in and scrounge to find lots of non fat foods to eat for the remainder of the day. If different types are processed differently then I could eat one or two and not really be concerned with what else I eat providing they are healthy and not of huge portions. Hence me trying to catch my own tail ;)

I guess this is what I'm wrapping my head around. Going back up to that example, if I were to eat 'balanced' meals throughout the day an avocado would be 40% of my day's fat intake on something that will not fill up 40% of my day. The logical side of my brain says that's will never be a good food choice. The other side says it's natural and good for me so I should. If I'm tracking everything I'm eating then that choice really limits what I can have the rest of the day - if I had two avocados technically I could barely eat any fat for the rest of the day. If a gram of fat is a gram of fat then yes, I count that in and scrounge to find lots of non fat foods to eat for the remainder of the day. If different types are processed differently then I could eat one or two and not really be concerned with what else I eat providing they are healthy and not of huge portions. Hence me trying to catch my own tail ;)

It's not a day to day matter. That was the breakthrough for me - knowing that I could eat badly one day, for whatever reason, and then get back on the wagon the next. Worrying about two avocados means I'm focusing on what I am DENYING myself. Having the two avocados, and knowing they aren't an everyday food so I should have something else the next day, is focusing on what you are HAVING, not what you can't or shouldn't have. Food isn't the enemy, it's my attitude towards food that needs to be changed.

Actually I think I could suck down 2000 calories of oatmeal without thinking of it but could only get through a few spoonfuls of lard before I was stuffed. The fat is much harder to digest. I find it with salads too - a tablespoon of olive oil will make the salad a bit more filling than just eating vegetables alone (which in large quantities usually make me feel ill and lethargic anyway). I don't use 1% turkey anymore because I found I had to eat more of it in order to feel full.

I went through a period last year about now where I watched everything I ate to the drop but my exercise tailed off - was down to about 2200 calories a day which for my 6-1" 260# frame (at the time with swing dancing a few times a week) should have been fine to at least maintain weight but I packed on 2 pounds per week. I have beef maybe twice a month, only eat turkey (allergic to chicken), don't drink milk or eat eggs, only keep extra virgin olive oil in the kitchen, avoid processed sugar and bleached flour sticking to whole wheat flour/pasta and brown rice, and most of my veggies are raw or just slightly cooked. In short almost every healthy thing I can think of to replace and swap with. Ever since I never really paid attention to calories and just tried to eat healthier but now I'm touching 290 (and all the wheel issues this summer didn't help with the exercising). So my questions are specific because losing weight with diet has never been successful but I want to track and understand where I'd need to make a change. That and I almost can't leave the house because nothing fits.


I'm up 20 pounds since August. I know the feeling. I was late for church on Sunday because I had to hunt for a shirt that fit me. I almost succeeded in finding one. :-(

Having the two avocados, and knowing they aren't an everyday food so I should have something else the next day

I guess here's where I start tripping and falling. So they're not a good food to eat on a daily basis? I don't really like them all that much truth be told but trying to get better fruits/veggies into my diet - they're starting to grow on me.


focusing on what you are HAVING, not what you can't or shouldn't have. Food isn't the enemy, it's my attitude towards food that needs to be changed.

I know if I eat celery I'm not getting too much out of it but it won't cost me much in calories if at all.

I know if I eat a 3 pound steak with all the trimmings it'll fill me up and blow my calories to hell for a week.

It's that middle line I'm looking for. You're right, I know if I have a bad day I can balance it a bit the next as long as it evens out by the end of the week. When it seems everything I eat turns to fat then it's hard to fight the 'food isn't the enemy' notion. I have a terrible time evening out fat. Calories I can do with no problems, but if I had a lot of fat one day it's really hard for me to eat equally less the next to balance it out. Calories no problem.

Connected to that - a friend once mentioned that food is just nutrients. If it ceases to be connected to everything and just looked at as something to fuel the body it's an easier approach.

Another tidbit - if you throw it out or crap it out it still goes to the same place. Good one for me to remind myself since I don't like leaving anything on the plate - damn Italian upbringing ;)

I'm up 20 pounds since August. I know the feeling. I was late for church on Sunday because I had to hunt for a shirt that fit me. I almost succeeded in finding one. :-(

Ugh. For me it's gotten to the point of not seeing people or going dancing because the pants won't fit. And there's a weekend coming up in January that I'm not sure if I'm going yet even though I already paid for it because of that same thing. Arg.

Ugh. For me it's gotten to the point of not seeing people or going dancing because the pants won't fit. And there's a weekend coming up in January that I'm not sure if I'm going yet even though I already paid for it because of that same thing. Arg.

First of all, you are going. Withdrawing from life is not the answer. In fact it's the problem. Fat people hide. Don't hide, Air. I went to church despite my ill-fitting shirt. Of course, a tie covers a multitude of sins. :-)

And now that you know you are going to the dance weekend, you can take action. Again that's the difference between a fat person and regular folks. People do things; fat people don't. I should know. :-)

If you don't have the facts, you should not be posting something like that.

:rolleyes:
Don't be a tool. I specifically said to talk to your doctor before making any drastic changes.

First of all, you are going. Withdrawing from life is not the answer. In fact it's the problem. Fat people hide. Don't hide, Air. I went to church despite my ill-fitting shirt. Of course, a tie covers a multitude of sins. :-)

And now that you know you are going to the dance weekend, you can take action. Again that's the difference between a fat person and regular folks. People do things; fat people don't. I should know. :-)

Yup - if I wasn't interested in taking action I wouldn't be here asking questions ;) When I made that realization that I wasn't showing up in public much that was a good indication that I had to take a different direction than what I was doing. The questions about fat seem like a good place to start as far as food is concerned.

Here is the deal, a calorie isn't just a calorie and fat isn't just fat. I've found a VERY simple way to regulate my diet and still lose a ton of weight. I eat 6-8 times a day and as natural as I can. By natural I mean whole unprocessed foods. I also try and keep the fat intake low. I simply use the scale to regulate my diet. If I'm losing 2-3lbs per week then I'm good to go. That usually figures out to 1lb every other day. If 2 days go by and I haven't lost a pound than I know to eat less. If I lose 2 lbs twice in a row I eat more. If I know I'm not going to be able to work out on a specific day, I alway eat a little less that day. I've found it to be so simple. I never count calories or fat or anything like that.

I guess this is what I'm wrapping my head around. Going back up to that example, if I were to eat 'balanced' meals throughout the day an avocado would be 40% of my day's fat intake on something that will not fill up 40% of my day. The logical side of my brain says that's will never be a good food choice. The other side says it's natural and good for me so I should. If I'm tracking everything I'm eating then that choice really limits what I can have the rest of the day - if I had two avocados technically I could barely eat any fat for the rest of the day. If a gram of fat is a gram of fat then yes, I count that in and scrounge to find lots of non fat foods to eat for the remainder of the day. If different types are processed differently then I could eat one or two and not really be concerned with what else I eat providing they are healthy and not of huge portions. Hence me trying to catch my own tail ;)

I sometimes think the granularity of daily counting is too fine, so it gets too complicated, counting by the week might actually work better, which means if you have a "bad" day, you can be extra good on a couple of other days, to make up for it.

The other option, mix and match, if your avocado is too much fat for one day, then eat only 1/2 or 1/3 and save the rest, for another day or mix it with something else less fatty, that you can eat over several days.....

I won't bother to reply RadioFlyer since he's obviously just enjoys being an over opinionated ass clown.

I guess I didn't truly meant to completely cut fat out of your diet. You really can't (unless you really, really, really, really work at it). I was only meaning to avoid them....you will get some anyway, but generally avoiding them is good.

Yes you need some fats, but you will typically get those with even a semi-normal diet. But avoiding them means eating much less, e.g. "not eating excess".

Most large people tend to "flock" toward fatty foods. So by telling somebody who already has a history of poor diet choices (like probably most of us in here do) to go ahead and eat fats just eat "this" kind of fat (people always want to recommend Omega-3 fats) is just a prescription to go and eat a ton of "healthy fat" food.

Now said person doesn't understand why they are gaining wait again when they are eatings tons of nuts, avocado, etc....



This is just my opinion and its amazing how two people could differ so much. Don't stay away from fats. Fats are essential oils. Your body needs them to work. Fats don't have too much impact on weight loss at all!! They can even help lose weight. Sure there are bad fats and these have to be minimised but use your common sense. This fella can explain it better than me!

http://www.udoerasmus.com/firstscreen.htm

Yes you need some fats, but you will typically get those with even a semi-normal diet. But avoiding them means eating much less, e.g. "not eating excess".

How much fat would you say should you get in a semi-normal diet? 80g? 60g? 40g?

Here is the deal, a calorie isn't just a calorie and fat isn't just fat. I've found a VERY simple way to regulate my diet and still lose a ton of weight. I eat 6-8 times a day and as natural as I can. By natural I mean whole unprocessed foods. I also try and keep the fat intake low. I simply use the scale to regulate my diet. If I'm losing 2-3lbs per week then I'm good to go. That usually figures out to 1lb every other day. If 2 days go by and I haven't lost a pound than I know to eat less. If I lose 2 lbs twice in a row I eat more. If I know I'm not going to be able to work out on a specific day, I alway eat a little less that day. I've found it to be so simple. I never count calories or fat or anything like that.


This is the same way Fred Anderson lost weight, as he described it in his book From Chunk to Hunk.

http://www.chunktohunk.com/main

"I’m not particularly concerned with my caloric intake. I’m not on a diet because I believe diets don’t work, at least not for someone as big as me. Someone my size needs a whole new way of eating, something designed to last the rest of his life.

"I’m simply eating healthier food. As someone who needs to watch his blood sugar, I try to keep my carbohydrates per meal to around 60 or 70 grams. My doctor tells me that once I lose my weight, I won’t have to be so careful about watching carbohydrates, because my body will be using its insulin properly. When she diagnosed me with diabetes in 1997 my doctor gave me an 1800-calorie diet, but the dietician she sent me to said I would starve on it and that I should be eating about 2500 calories per day. I’m not sure which to believe, so I just eat what seems right.
Life’s too short to spend my time weighing and measuring what I eat.

"My body knows when it has had enough, and it can tell me better than either my doctor or a dietician. I got this fat through a combination of eating too much and moving too little. Instead of eating until I’m stuffed, now I merely eat until I’m full. I’m eating more vegetables every day, and several pieces of fruit. The change in my energy level is astounding."

Yup - if I wasn't interested in taking action I wouldn't be here asking questions ;) When I made that realization that I wasn't showing up in public much that was a good indication that I had to take a different direction than what I was doing. The questions about fat seem like a good place to start as far as food is concerned.

The moment you stop doing things because of obesity, obesity wins. Thanks for not letting it win.

I guess here's where I start tripping and falling. So they're not a good food to eat on a daily basis? I don't really like them all that much truth be told but trying to get better fruits/veggies into my diet - they're starting to grow on me.


I don't know if avocados are good or not so good. I don't like them, and so I don't eat them. I suggest eating fruits you DO like. :-)

i eat an avocado everyday because i love it after a meal and its better for me than ice cream although I do enjoy my ice cream too! Don't be too hard on yourself, I would hate to be counting calories and fat and all. My personal goal is to become a "normal" eater. Get your food pyramid and try and stick to it. It allows beer and ice cream and everything else "bad" - only in moderation;-) Try and change your thinking to praise rather than punishment;-)

Oh, and the solution to yesterday's question was to go to bed early and hungry.

For me, Thats the best thing I can do for myself if I want to loose weight.

For me, Thats the best thing I can do for myself if I want to loose weight.

Yeah but the danger is overeating in the morning to compensate. I'm also pretty much always hungry no matter what I eat so the 'eat till full' never quite worked for me (tried all the tricks, chewing more, utensil down between bites, smaller meals, eat half - wait - eat other half, etc..). I think part of that is since I drink so much water a day my stomach is a bit more stretched (I can chug a 1.5 liter of water without blinking - I usually don't but do go through 2-4 bottles a day) and part who knows. If I know I ate enough but am still hungry I can take grapefruit seed oil which will cut back on the hunger part usually but it's artificial.

Back to fat and summary. Tell me if y'll agree:

General consensus - good fat & bad fat all still count as fat. 1 gram good fat = 1 gram bad fat so to speak.

One can even out the fat they eat over the course of the week but at the end the good and bad fats are still rolled into 'fat'

'Good fat' does healthy things that science guesses at (though not 100% sure since the high fat olive oil diets seem to work as well) but is processed better than 'bad fat' which gets stuck in the ole plumbing so it's a better choice in the long run than 'bad fat.'

*Probably* one could get away with eating *slightly* (about 10g/day let's say as to not go hog wild) more good fats and still lose weight because of how the body processes and uses it.


Now in terms of what is balanced....For the people that count what they eat (because obviously my body is not to be trusted by what it tells me it wants so I can't listen to it): what ratios of fat/carbs/protein do you keep? I see 30-50-20 (fat-carb-prot) kicked around a lot. Good starting point?

How much fat would you say should you get in a semi-normal diet? 80g? 60g? 40g?

I don't have my normal reference ("Eat To Live") in front of me, but off the top of my head, I'd say 40g from what you list, but even that sounds a bit high to me.