Commuting - To Strobe Or NOT To Strobe

That is the question. :)
Assume the following facts:
Cyclist is commuting home at night.
Cyclist is wearing helmet light.
Cyclist is not riding on MUP.
Cyclist is riding on semi-urban city streets.
To insure maximum safety should cyclist strobe or use steady, constant light?
Discuss. :)

I run three on strobe.

Strobe best, steady second best, sequence - worst.

Forward = steady dual halogens
Rearward = Xenon strobe + steady LED motorcycle tail light

Forward = steady dual halogens
Rearward = Xenon strobe + steady LED motorcycle tail light

You got it right. Xenon flash tube strobe. A blinking LED is not a strobe, it's a blinky.

In the area where I ride, and as far as I know throughout the state and quite possibly the entire region of the country; a flashing headlight signals oncoming motorists that you are giving up the right of way and signals them to go ahead......No modulation or strobe for me.....Not on my bicycle nor my motorcycle.

I'd put the light on strobe.

You got it right. Xenon flash tube strobe. A blinking LED is not a strobe, it's a blinky.

And with that xenon strobe on there... if someone hits me it's because they know me! :eek:

One of each, one set on steady, one flashing. The flashing gets attention, the steady allows drivers to judge your distance and speed and breaks up the flashing pattern so drunks don't get hypnotized by the flash.
I run a Cateye LD1000 on steady and a PB Superflash on annoyatron mode.

strobe everything and have a front light in front to see if you can. I bought mpi flashers, they can attach to each arm, I doubt any car can miss me with those on. they work great!!

I have three tail lights on the back of my rack. The one in the middle is set to blink and the other two are on steady.
(It is illegal in almost all states to have more than one flashing light on the rear of a vehicle, unless they are synchronized to flash in unison. They reserve this set up for emergency vehicles.)

For taillights - I have a Dinotte 600L in blinking mode, plus 2 Planet Bike Superflash, also in blinking mode. I figure my reflective vest and reflective tape on the rear fender is sufficient "non-blinking" countermeasures.

For headlights - I run a Dinotte 600L on my helmet. It stays mostly on high beam, but if I'm riding near downtown with lots of other cars and commercial lighting, I'll switch to blinking mode. But for darker sections of roadway, the steady beam does a better job lighting my way.

I'm amazed at folks who are confident enough to run either a single tail light or headlight. I know some of these systems are bomber, but sh$t happens. I personally always run multiple lights even if it's just a spare blinky. As for the OP, one on blink front and back the rest steady.

I'm amazed at folks who are confident enough to run either a single tail light or headlight. I know some of these systems are bomber, but sh$t happens. I personally always run multiple lights even if it's just a spare blinky. As for the OP, one on blink front and back the rest steady.

That's exactly the way I do it. But I've been reading so much anti strobe propaganda and just wanted to shine a light on the issue.

Solid if mounted, blinking if worn.


Strobe best, steady second best, sequence - worst.
Why is sequence bad?

Both - I mix it up

forward
niterider classic headlights on solid

rearward
superflash on seatpost SOLID
LD1000 on rack on FLASH
led on seatpost on FLASH

superflash on helmet FLASH
LD1000 on courier bag on FLASH
Optic cable lights on bag on SOLID

add an illuminite jacket, illuminite helmet cover and a bike frame where every rearward facing surface is covered in red and forward facing surface is covered in white 3m scotchlite tape and I'm pretty sure I can be seen from the international space station.

I have a helmet light, and 2 bar lights, I strobe one during fully dailight and at the twlight hours. If it fully dark I turn strobe off. On the rear all 3 of my lights blink all the time.

Darkness = L+M Arc Ultra front steady, Helmet rear - Cateye blinky, seatpost PB Superflash strobing, messenger bag reflective strips, CPSC wheel reflecters, etc.
Daylight = UltraFaser 3 LED headlight on strobe.

Strobing definitely attracts visual attention = gets you noticed. I think strobing white lights in darkness can confuse drivers. My HID headlight can pump out some light, so it gets noticed. The PB Superflash rocks - it is one great blinky - the pattern of 1/2 watt LED in concert with the smaller LEDs is unusual enough to attract attention

I really don't like front flashing lights when I see them from my car. I can never get a good sense of how close or how fast the object is moving.

I use a 10W HID front light with no backups. It has never gone out on me and if it does I can limp home (on the sidewalk if needed) acting as if invisible and following pedestrian rules and speeds.

Rear I use three LED lights. In full dark: A PBSF in blink mode on helmet, A PBSF in steady on backpack and a Cateye LD-1000 full solid. In low light/rain conditions I put them all on blink.

Al

I have both my helmet light and handlebar light set to steady. My PB SuperFlash is on blink and the Dinotte tail light is on steady. And my Christmas lights are on steady too!

I'm amazed at folks who are confident enough to run either a single tail light or headlight. I know some of these systems are bomber, but sh$t happens. I personally always run multiple lights even if it's just a spare blinky. As for the OP, one on blink front and back the rest steady.

I also have a fair amount of reflective gunk and hi-vis clothing as backup. I have a 1.5x4" DOT truck reflector permanently mounted on my bike, plus a few inches of reflective stuff on my helmet, and a construction worker's reflective vest. In most night conditions those are more visible than almost any blinkie (other than xenon strobes/nova bull and perhaps some other high-end models).

I also run two blinkies but I'm not hyper-religious about it.

During the evening commute home (dark) I use the following:
Front:
- B&M DLumitec Oval Senseo Plus - Solid (LED light with capacitor to remain on whe stopped)
- Trek 5 LED light on flashing (no impressive in the light output)
Rear:
- PlanetBike Super Flash - Solid mode (it lights up the road behind me just like a car tail light, flashing mode appears so bright it may distract drivers)
- Pyramid 5 light - Flash mode
On Body:
- ANSI Class 2 Hi-Viz vest and 3M Solas reflective tape on helmet, rear fender, and some other strategic places on the bike

During morning commute (not dark, but not bright yet)
Front:
- B&M DLumitec Oval Senseo Plus - Solid (LED light with capacitor to remain on whe stopped)
- Trek 5 LED light - Not used
Rear:
- PlanetBike Super Flash - Flash mode
Pyramid 5 light - Solid mode
On Body:
ANSI Class 2 Hi-Viz vest (all reflective materials don't help during low light, but not dark conditions)

I did some non scientific tests with the bike parked on a dark part of the street and check to see what would get my attention without being overly distracting to drivers. The above seems to work well for my setup.

Happy riding,
André

I really don't like front flashing lights when I see them from my car. I can never get a good sense of how close or how fast the object is moving.

I'll second that. I run dynohub driven stead front and rear lights on a light sensor (auto on). In lower light (I usually leave my office around 4) I have an illuminite vest and an LD1000 stuck in the loop on my helmet with one level on chasing and the other steady. Also, long (~2 ft) strips of reflective tape down the fenders of the bike, and if I can ever find any for the wacky S-6 rims I have, reflective sidewalls are in the future.

I've done enough group rides at night to know that flashing blinkies are annoying to follow. I use steady taillights out of habit and found that I'm no less visible to cars because of that.

... but then, part of that might also be having multiple tail lights and a jacket with a lot of reflective material.

Forward and rear flashing on city streets, forward light steady/solid on MUPs.

I really don't like front flashing lights when I see them from my car. I can never get a good sense of how close or how fast the object is moving.


I don't think it matters as much if you like flashing lights, it's more important to me that you actually notice them. The cyclist is always better off if the driver notices, and solid lights can get lost in the mix of the urban jungle of lights. Flashing lights are really the only things that sets a cyclist apart from street lights, cars, and other solid lights.

i think you hit the nail on the head. Blinkies signify bike - to get noticed.

I don't think it matters as much if you like flashing lights, it's more important to me that you actually notice them. The cyclist is always better off if the driver notices, and solid lights can get lost in the mix of the urban jungle of lights. Flashing lights are really the only things that sets a cyclist apart from street lights, cars, and other solid lights.

Amen. I run a 2 NR TR, 1 Cateye Opticube Sport 1 LED front and rear NR UTL, vegas light(old school yellow w/steady/pulsating options), and 2 generic lbs 5 led/mode blinkies.

Daytime:Front-Cateye on blink all times, NR TR #1w/Cateye when foggy or wet/overcast. #2 NR TR is wired w/NR UTL as a back up. Rear-NR UTL on steady, vegas on pulse, blinkies-high on fast blink, low on random 2-1-2 patterns.

Nighttime:Front- NR TR #1 on steady unless foggy or rainy then include the Cateye on blink. Cateye is 'last resort' emergency light. NR #2 is used in case #1 runs out of juice. Rear-NR UTL on blink, vegas on steady and blinkies same as above.

Each week I rotate the headlights, so as to not burn the lamps unevenly. Also, carry a NR/MR11 lamp w/the torx wrench for the HL screws and 2 sets of AAA and 1 set of AA batteries in my travel kit.

Flourescent yellow/green jersey and or parka w/reflective shoes, panniers, and a couple of front(white) and rear(red) driveway reflectors mounted to the panniers. Major Fredness, but I'd rather be Fred than dead.

Oh yeah, I've got Christmas lights mounted on my frame purchased last year from Target that look pretty cool when they're lit up. If only they had a 'twinkle' mode... :p

I don't think it matters as much if you like flashing lights, it's more important to me that you actually notice them. The cyclist is always better off if the driver notices, and solid lights can get lost in the mix of the urban jungle of lights. Flashing lights are really the only things that sets a cyclist apart from street lights, cars, and other solid lights.

I notice cyclists using powerful steady beams long before I notice blinkies - they seem to get lost among headlights and cause confusion as to lateral position of cyclist. Xenon flashers may be different and I can't say for sure if I've seen them from my car.

Most blinkie headlight cyclists where I live ride slowly and often on sidewalk. Seeing a blinkie is an invitation to left turn in front of them as that means plenty of time/space. A bright steady headlight indicates more often than not a fast moving cyclist (or is that a moped?) approaching.

Actually there are quite a few walkers who use blinkies in places I night cycle and I can't tell if it is a wrong way cyclist or a walker until my HID headlight shines on them.

Al

Most blinkie headlight cyclists where I live ride slowly and often on sidewalk. Seeing a blinkie is an invitation to left turn in front of them as that means plenty of time/space. A bright steady headlight indicates more often than not a fast moving cyclist (or is that a moped?) approaching.

Actually there are quite a few walkers who use blinkies in places I night cycle and I can't tell if it is a wrong way cyclist or a walker until my HID headlight shines on them.

Al

I'm all for bright lights, I run a Dinotte 600L on blink while navigating through the city. If it's a question of a dimmer "all-in-one" front blinky vs. a steady HID, the HID wins for being noticeable hands down. If it's a comparison of my Dinotte to your HID, I think the blinking 600 lumen light is more noticeable IMO. But I'm not sure I quite understand how you're reached your other conclusions about blinky lights, unless you're assuming all front blinky lights are lower power/luminosity, in which case I guess I agree with you that a steady HID wins out.

You say that a bright steady beam indicates a fast moving cyclist but how can you tell that it's a cyclist and not a car with a headlight out, or a motorcycle? Blinking is the only thing that can set cyclists apart from other moving vehicles.

Also, I've never heard of walkers wearing white lights, only red ones. I always assume a blinking white light is a cyclist and not a walker. With blinking red lights however, it can be a little more difficult to discern in complete darkness.

Lookit what cars use. Steady. Large, recognizeable lights on Steady, not uber-bright, but sure enough to be seen.
I vote Steady. But I use Flash cause it saves batteries & i have a fair amount of reflective. o issues with not being seen, though it does only take once...

Lookit what cars use. Steady. Large, recognizeable lights on Steady, not uber-bright, but sure enough to be seen.
I vote Steady. But I use Flash on the back cause it saves batteries & i have a fair amount of reflective. no issues with not being seen, though it does only take once...

2 lights each, front and back, for my nighttime riding; I go 12 to 23 miles so I need the extra light front and rear as much for a backup as anything. Front lights include a bright fixed light to see with, and a helmet mounted light in strobe mode to catch the attention of drivers. Rear lights include one of the newer, brighter Cateye taillights along with a standard blinky.

Getting a bright flashing light on my helmet is the best thing I've ever done for night riding. I'm constantly observing that drivers are hesitant to pull out in front of me from side roads or at intersections when I aim the evil blinking eye right at them. The darker the road, the more visible I am with this setup- and the safer I feel.

Always get a bit of a start when I'm looking in the woods from the bike, and pairs of eyes start flashing back at me- especially if they're big!

I'm all for bright lights, I run a Dinotte 600L on blink while navigating through the city. If it's a question of a dimmer "all-in-one" front blinky vs. a steady HID, the HID wins for being noticeable hands down. If it's a comparison of my Dinotte to your HID, I think the blinking 600 lumen light is more noticeable IMO. But I'm not sure I quite understand how you're reached your other conclusions about blinky lights, unless you're assuming all front blinky lights are lower power/luminosity, in which case I guess I agree with you that a steady HID wins out.

You say that a bright steady beam indicates a fast moving cyclist but how can you tell that it's a cyclist and not a car with a headlight out, or a motorcycle? Blinking is the only thing that can set cyclists apart from other moving vehicles.

Also, I've never heard of walkers wearing white lights, only red ones. I always assume a blinking white light is a cyclist and not a walker. With blinking red lights however, it can be a little more difficult to discern in complete darkness.

I agree here basically. As I said a Xenon brightness flasher of which a Dinotte flash is brighter is a different story. But if I had a light that bright flashing I think it would mess up my (the cyclists) clear view of the road as well.

If a motorist doesn't know if I am a car with one headlight or a motorcycle vs.a bicycle - I am not sure how that matters significantly. The other driver needs to yield if legally required to - and if anything may be more likely to yield if they think you are one of those faster vehicles.

Yeah, round here in many peds (I said walkers, I meant runners, although some walkers wear them too) wear front headlights of the type that strap around the head - and put them in blinkie mode. Most have a rear flasher as well. I'm leaving for a night ride in 5min and expect to see at least a dozen so equipped.

Al

(It is illegal in almost all states to have more than one flashing light on the rear of a vehicle, unless they are synchronized to flash in unison.)

It is? Is a bike classified as a vehicle in all states? Maybe we should discuss this instead.....I know there are TONS of riders in this forum who use multiple blinkies on the rear of the bike.....including me. Or....I should say at the rear of the bike. I only have one actually mounted to my "vehicle". I have two on my helmet, and two on my pack. All point ostensibly toward the rear, with some variation of angle both side to side and up and down. Does it matter if it's on your body? Or if it's slightly angled? Who's enforcing this rule?

Not really sure what the difference between a strobe and a blinking light is...

I run a Blackburn Mars 3.0 blinky on my seatpost and Cateye blinky hanging on my bag. For my front light, I have a Blackburn Quadrant. One of the modes runs the middle solid with the outer LEDs blinky. I find that one the most useful when I need to get driver's attention and still see the road ahead of me.

I have an LED of HID brightness that can be set to blink.

I never, ever do though. I think that would be a bad idea.

...if a rear flashing light makes is more difficult to tell someone's lane position, wouldn't encourage them to slow down and actually look at you? Oh, wait. I assumed they gave a crap. Question retracted.

When I'm riding in darkness I use:

Front:
2 Topeak White Lights in blink mode (mounted on either side of my Kona's steel fork)
Minewt X2 dual LED lights in constant mode on the handlebar
L&M Solo halogen light on the helmet

Rear:
Cateye LED blinky on helmet
Blackburn Mars 2.0 in blink mode on rack trunk
PB Superflash on the rack itself.

When it gets dark, I also shift from the streets to the MUP. When it's not rush hour, the traffic tends to move at 45+, and I don't trust their reaction time. The only downside is that I have to watch out for ninja joggers and dog walkers. My lights pick them up, but I have to pay more attention to what's coming up.

I also have to cross several intersections, and cars have a tendency to stop in the crosswalks (or blow right through them). I've foud the handlebar headlights are at the perfect height to shine right into the car window, and the helmet light can spotlight the driver pretty well.

3 blinkies rear, one flashing white led front, one solid led front on dark streets. I disagree that it's easier for cars to judge distance from a solid taillight. Flashing lights attract more attention and as a driver, signal to me that it's a bike. I find that solid lights tend to blend in with the rest of the lights in the city. On another note, I think some headlights are too bright; makes it hard to see the rider if they're signaling a turn.

Both front & rear have at least one blinking and one flashing, unless I'm just running the front Dinotte 200 on flash-steady mode. For taillights, one bike has a Dinotte and a PBSF, the other has another Dinotte and a Mars 3 -- normally the Dinotte is set to steady while the others blink.

I've also got an amber Dinotte for the front during the daytime.

In any case, I'm trying to have some blinking for getting attention and also a steady light for distance recognition.

(It is illegal in almost all states to have more than one flashing light on the rear of a vehicle, unless they are synchronized to flash in unison. They reserve this set up for emergency vehicles.)
It is? Is a bike classified as a vehicle in all states? Maybe we should discuss this instead.....I know there are TONS of riders in this forum who use multiple blinkies on the rear of the bike.....including me. Or....I should say at the rear of the bike. I only have one actually mounted to my "vehicle". I have two on my helmet, and two on my pack. All point ostensibly toward the rear, with some variation of angle both side to side and up and down. Does it matter if it's on your body? Or if it's slightly angled? Who's enforcing this rule?

I can only speak to Texas law, since that is where I live. And, yes, bicycles are listed in the TX statutes under "Definitions: Vehicles." They aren't the considered a "motorized" vehicle, but a vehicle nonetheless.

I ran across a survey, (but can't seem to find it), that said something like 20 states classify bicycles as vehicles. Then some other states don't make the same classification, but do mention in their statutes that bicycles are still required to follow the same traffic laws as motorized vehicles.

As for mounting the lights on your person, I would have to say the law is probably something like, "flashing lights, visible from the rear of a moving vehicle..." I'm just guessing at that.

The police are actually supposed to enforce these laws. However, most cyclists are never cited even when breaking a traffic law.

That is the question. :)
Assume the following facts:
Cyclist is commuting home at night.
Cyclist is wearing helmet light.
Cyclist is not riding on MUP.
Cyclist is riding on semi-urban city streets.
To insure maximum safety should cyclist strobe or use steady, constant light?
Discuss. :)

ensure

A blinking light may signify "bike," but only in North America, in my experience.

The British publication Motor vehicle and pedal cycle conspicuity: part 3 - vehicle mounted warning beacons. Summary report states
"Donne and Fulton (1988) showed that a flashing daytime running lamp in addition to a 40W headlamp increases mean peripheral detection of a motorcycle by 20% over a headlamp alone. The Highway Safety Research Institute (1976) examined warning signal flasher performance and concluded with the recommendation that the flash rate should be increased from 1-2 Hz to 1-3 Hz, with 2-3 Hz found to improve the effectiveness of turn and hazard warning signals."

and

"Flash pattern
When more than one warning beacon was present on a vehicle, beacons which flashed simultaneously were detected significantly more quickly than those which flashed alternately. Simultaneously flashing beacons were also subjectively rated as more attention-getting (day and night), whilst those which flashed alternately minimised discomfort glare (day and night)." (bolding added for emphasis)

They also describe some of their own research done using a scale model (I am uncertain how well that applies to reality).

"Flash rate
The experimental work and expert consultation suggests that high flash rates (4 Hz) improve warning beacon detection time and are more effective in conveying an impression of urgency (day and night). Low flash rates (1 Hz) minimise - discomfort glare (day and night), disability glare (night) and perceived annoyance (day and night). ...

5.2.1 Effect of the presence and flash status of roadside warning beacons
A vehicle with flashing amber warning beacons (2 Hz) was detected quickest when:
• the roadside beacons were static (day),
• there were no roadside beacons (night – no street-lighting).
(For night-time conditions with street-lighting, the presence/absence of warning beacons or their flashing/static status had no effect on the speed of vehicle detection).
5.2.2 Effect of vehicle warning beacon flash rate
Increasing the flash rate of the vehicle warning beacon to 4 Hz, when located amongst flashing roadside beacons, did not assist its detection.
5.2.3 Effect of using static and flashing amber vehicle warning beacons
A static amber warning beacon was used in conjunction with the flashing amber warning beacon on the vehicle to provide a source of constant light output. Whilst it was theorised that this would differentiate the vehicle from its flashing environment, this was not proven by the testwork."

Go to LINK (http://hdl.handle.net/2134/521) and scroll down to get the PDF link.

Another advantage of flashing is it conserves battery life, particularly with LED's (no high initial current as filament heats up).

Also see Summary of Motor Vehicle and Pedal Cycle Conspicuity Part 2: Pedal Cycles. Go to LINK (http://hdl.handle.net/2134/514) and scroll down to get the PDF link.

You say that a bright steady beam indicates a fast moving cyclist but how can you tell that it's a cyclist and not a car with a headlight out, or a motorcycle? Blinking is the only thing that can set cyclists apart from other moving vehicles.

That's the point. Why indicate to motorists that you are a bicycle? A very bright (and it's not hard or expensive to build something that makes HID weep in shame;)) steady headlight makes motorist pause and think about what's coming at them. Is that a car with only one headlight? Is it a motorcycle? Is a train off the tracks? Their response should be "Maybe I'll wait to see if it'll squish me." If they see a blinking front light, their response is more likely to be "Oh. A bike. I got plenty of room." Since it's hard to judge distance to flashing objects, they might be wrong.


Also, I've never heard of walkers wearing white lights, only red ones. I always assume a blinking white light is a cyclist and not a walker. With blinking red lights however, it can be a little more difficult to discern in complete darkness.

Noisebeam is seeing red lights. Since most cyclists who use taillights are using red ones, it's kinda difficult to tell if that flashing red light on your side of the path is a cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road or a walker. And since it's flashing, it's difficult to judge the distance to it.

Noisebeam is seeing red lights. Since most cyclists who use taillights are using red ones, it's kinda difficult to tell if that flashing red light on your side of the path is a cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road or a walker. And since it's flashing, it's difficult to judge the distance to it.

Just to clarify, many walk/runners if they are wearing lights are wearing red flashing in rear and white steady or more commonly flashing in front. There is one area I ride every weeknight which this pedestrian light wearing has spread like a virus. This is a good thing, don't get me wrong - I just find it interesting how some parts of town recreational runners/walkers don't wear any lights, some parts they wear just red rear and some parts they are front and rear - this later becoming more and more common.

Al

I can only speak to Texas law, since that is where I live. And, yes, bicycles are listed in the TX statutes under "Definitions: Vehicles." They aren't the considered a "motorized" vehicle, but a vehicle nonetheless.

I ran across a survey, (but can't seem to find it), that said something like 20 states classify bicycles as vehicles. Then some other states don't make the same classification, but do mention in their statutes that bicycles are still required to follow the same traffic laws as motorized vehicles.

As for mounting the lights on your person, I would have to say the law is probably something like, "flashing lights, visible from the rear of a moving vehicle..." I'm just guessing at that.

The police are actually supposed to enforce these laws. However, most cyclists are never cited even when breaking a traffic law.

Bicycles are classified as vehicles in all 50 states with the same rights and responsibilities. They have been since the early 90s.

Bicycles are classified as vehicles in all 50 states with the same rights and responsibilities. They have been since the early 90s.

Here's the survey (http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/vehicle.htm) I was referring to. It's from 1997.

That's the point. Why indicate to motorists that you are a bicycle? A very bright (and it's not hard or expensive to build something that makes HID weep in shame;)) steady headlight makes motorist pause and think about what's coming at them. Is that a car with only one headlight? Is it a motorcycle? Is a train off the tracks? Their response should be "Maybe I'll wait to see if it'll squish me." If they see a blinking front light, their response is more likely to be "Oh. A bike. I got plenty of room." Since it's hard to judge distance to flashing objects, they might be wrong.

I do everything I can so that when a motorist sees me, he instantly recognizes me as a bike. I think that helps them plan how they're going to pass me, and whether or not they'll have to slow down first.

I'd rather they see me as a "bike in the road", than mistake me for a car parked off the roadway with its lights on. Reflective DOT tape on the crankarms, plus pedal and ankle reflectors really help with this - the resulting left right "flash" from pedaling is instantly identifiable as a bike.


When it comes to side street traffic, I've found my Dinotte 600L actually stops many vehicles in their tracks. I suspect that some must think I'm a motorcycle (whether the light is in steady state or flashing mode)...often they'll wait a long time until I'm finally past them before they turn onto my road.

often they'll wait a long time until I'm finally past them before they turn onto my road.
That is my experience too with steady 10W HID. At night drivers entering from side street stop and wait and don't move until I pass.

Even in the situation where I am far enough back that they could have easily and safely crossed or made their turn they wait. Daytime in the exact situation, drivers look my way, stop or near stop and always proceed (safely) in front of me. Sometimes I think the HID is too effective and makes me look closer and/or faster than I am, but that is not a complaint.

Al