Mountain Bike Racing - XC Racers: hardtail or full suspension

What do you race on?

Raced a hardtail forever before it got stolen.

Switching to FS now due to the local terrain. The courses have gotten more technical over the years too. Seems like they want you to try just as hard on the downhills as the uphills.

The last race I did had something like 14 miles of nasty fast downhill. On my F3000sl with 80mm of travel up front, going down was one of the hardest things I've ever done... I looked forward to the uphills.

Right now I XC race on a hardtail but not by choice; I'm spending most of my biking money on DH racing, so I have to settle with what's left over in the stable. For me, a hardtail is an uninspiring, workman-like tool and no more. When I can build a FS for racing I certainly will; I'm tired of getting beat up by forty-year-olds who can stay fresher on their FS mounts :)

I will not participate in my own poll, I do not race MTBs. But I am very curious about what gear others are using in their racing. I'm a hardtail guy for a number of reasons. But again, I do not race off the road. I'm not quite that insane. Yet.

The bike shop I ride with/for doesn't sell my hard tail bike so I ride my full suspension. There are plenty of trails that a hard tail would probably work better on but I like to ride what it sells (not a requirement).

On a side note, I'd love to try the Ti hard tail that you're getting and see if that's more or less the best of both world alternative, but I'll be getting a road bike and wheels from the GB. Hopefully next year, BD will have a Ti 29er hard tail on the group buy. I'd be all over that!

>> a Ti 29er hard tail on the group buy. I'd be all over that!<<

How about a Ti 29er Fixie Power Crank bike?

For most Norba and world cup courses, hardtails tend to be faster. This is especially true of western US courses. East coast, not so much. Mt. Snow is faster on a FS I think, as is the Mont St. Anne world cup course.

I have raced on a Yeti full sus for years now, but I'm switching to a hardtail this year because I don't feel the FS is any faster on the downhills, and it sure isn't faster on the ups. For me the positives in the FS lie in techinical, but flat or slightly rising terrain. Going down I'm out of the saddle anyway, and can move the bike underneath me and go just as fast on a HT as on my old FS. It's techy stuff where I have to remain seated, and the speed is relatively high, where the FS has an advantage. Since much of my racing is now done in CO, there is no longer a need for a FS. If I still raced primarily in New England, I would probably keep my FS.

But to answer your question: I'm a hardtail guy now. I like the stiffness, weight, and speed it provides for racing.

ZeCanon brings up a good point: Where will you be riding this?

I choose FS because of where I live. Bozeman's Rocky mountains are ROCKY. The race courses in MT are generally built the weekend before a race, so we have a lot of rough sections of flat ground. I dislocated a rib in one of the state champ races off of a rutted section that had been created with a lawnmower the day before.

If I still lived in Colorado, like ZeC, I'd have a hardtail. CO trails see hundreds if not thousands of people per day. Here in MT, on the other hand, I could probably name every serious cyclist within 200 miles of myself, so the trails don't get the nice smooth worn in texture.

I race a hardtail just b/c its light and efficient and it teaches you to take better lines. I will probably eventually by a FS but not for a year or two

I race a hardtail just b/c its light and efficient and it teaches you to take better lines. I will probably eventually by a FS but not for a year or twoSomeone needs to shoot this outdated and false myth and put it out of its misery.

I just bought a 29er rigid steel (Redline D460).

Someone needs to shoot this outdated and false myth and put it out of its misery.

It doesn't teach you better lines, it teaches you smoother lines (for a hardtail). These aren't necessarily faster or better, simply less bumpy. Ride a cross bike on some mtb trails and you will see what I am talking about... I can go just as fast, but I actually have to pay really close attention to where I'm going or else I go over the bars. When a 2" square edge can take you out and pinch your tube, you tend to pay closer attention...

I would argue that running a HT or rigid does make you a smoother rider, however. It's simple necessity. You ride like a hack on a HT, you get your butt handed to you on a silver platter.

Note smoother rider DOES NOT equal 'better lines'

I race FS now, when I was younger, (35 now), I raced hard tail, but I love riding longer races, and about 3 hrs in, my back starts aching without rear suspension.

Maybe I'm wussy....

If I could have both though, I would, the new road bike is eating my cash right now, and the pivots on my MTN rig are starting to feel loose.

Maybe I'm wussy....


Dude, anyone who does 3 hour long MTB races can't possibly be Wussy.

Thanks, the last one was 67kms, simple on a road bike, but took nearly 4 hours on the mountain rig... through lots of technical stuff. There is a group up here that loves to punish us.... which I love!!

I was seeing spots near the end!!!


Greg

Ignore my first post.

I just ordered an '08 Taurine team.

Ignore my first post.

I just ordered an '08 Taurine team.

I'd race you on my Motobecane Fly Ti, but sadly your new Cdale is so heavy I'd have an unfair advantage.

Nice bike Cypress. How much are they, like $4500? Looks pricey but worth it. Pcad isn't worthy of an MTB that nice, believe me. Hence the VeloCheapo approach.

but sadly your new Cdale is so heavy I'd have an unfair advantage.
Not really, If you train on something thats "heavy" then your body will get used to it and be able to keep the same pace as someone with a "light" bike. Assuming both riders are at the same fitness level. I can keep a 20mph average for 27 miles with roadies on a 28LB mountain bike with slicks.

I'd race you on my Motobecane Fly Ti, but sadly your new Cdale is so heavy I'd have an unfair advantage.

Nice bike Cypress. How much are they, like $4500? Looks pricey but worth it. Pcad isn't worthy of an MTB that nice, believe me. Hence the VeloCheapo approach.

My 20.5 lb mtb is heavy? If you're mistaking heavy for "stiff as hell and toted as the fastest XC machine on earth", I understand.

It retails for $5500. I get a 10% discount... so, a ham sammich under 5 grand.

Not really, If you train on something thats "heavy" then your body will get used to it and be able to keep the same pace as someone with a "light" bike. Assuming both riders are at the same fitness level. I can keep a 20mph average for 27 miles with roadies on a 28LB mountain bike with slicks.

xcracer, I'm sorry but you really need to start thinking about what you say. Does that really make sense to you? Under that logic, all I have to do to be a world cup level racer is train on a DH bike with a backpack full of lead. You don't "get used" to a heavy bike.

xcracer, I'm sorry but you really need to start thinking about what you say. Does that really make sense to you? Under that logic, all I have to do to be a world cup level racer is train on a DH bike with a backpack full of lead. You don't "get used" to a heavy bike.

+1

I'd rather train on the bike I race with. When race day comes, I'll know exactly how my bike is going to handle in almost any situation your average XC course can throw at me.

xcracer, I'm sorry but you really need to start thinking about what you say. Does that really make sense to you? Under that logic, all I have to do to be a world cup level racer is train on a DH bike with a backpack full of lead. You don't "get used" to a heavy bike.

If you train on something heavy and pull the same times as someone on a light bike, when you get on your light race bike and ride at the same pace you'll be faster b/c your body is used to having to push more weight around. Have you read Lance Armstrong's "It's Not About the Bike"? He explains it in his book.

If you train on something heavy and pull the same times as someone on a light bike, when you get on your light race bike and ride at the same pace you'll be faster b/c your body is used to having to push more weight around. Have you read Lance Armstrong's "It's Not About the Bike"? He explains it in his book.

It slightly works on road... Mountain is a bit different. (for me anyways. You may find differently)

do you understand what im saying now??????

If you train on something heavy and pull the same times as someone on a light bike, when you get on your light race bike and ride at the same pace you'll be faster b/c your body is used to having to push more weight around. Have you read Lance Armstrong's "It's Not About the Bike"? He explains it in his book.

You're taking this way to seriously. Take more doobie breaks. This is biking already. MOUNTAIN biking. That's like cycling devoid of any semblance of sanity (and the entire sport skates on thin ice as it is).

If you train on something heavy and pull the same times as someone on a light bike, when you get on your light race bike and ride at the same pace you'll be faster b/c your body is used to having to push more weight around. Have you read Lance Armstrong's "It's Not About the Bike"? He explains it in his book.

All that means is that you are slower on the big bike, not that it is making you faster on the light bike. You are putting out the same power either way, just one bike is faster at the same power output. I know exactly what you are saying, and in a way it is correct, just not in the way you think it is :)
(wow that was some primo English right there)


This is the part that is wrong:
If you train on something thats "heavy" then your body will get used to it and be able to keep the same pace as someone with a "light" bike.

Your body works just as hard on a light bike as on a heavy bike, you just go faster. Your body has no way of knowing how fast it is going, only how hard it is working (ie how hard it is training).

Yo Cypress - do you have a delivery date on that Taurine? Salsa's been waiting on the frame (only) for months now...

Late January/early February is what I was told.

I ordered the blue one as well. I don't much care for the "I RACE FOR CANNONDALE ZOMG" paint scheme.

Again, nice ride Cypress. If I had an unlimited MTB budget, I might go that route as well. But I must profess a prejudice for Ti in an MTB. I'm no racer, and I like that Ti mushiness on those fireroads and singletrack here in NY.

Thanks P-Daddy.

I rolled the idea of the BD Ti bike... But, I've always has a half mast for Dale MTB's. They're all I've ever trusted on race courses.

Much like a Ti road bike might be better for a more recreational roadie and that CF hardtail better for racing, the same is probably true for MTBs. Ti might be mushier than an XC racer might prefer. I find my Ti road bike mushier than the Six13 for sure. Sometimes in cycling mushy is good.

Nice. Maybe my bike will come sooner than later.

I have both and will say if it's smooth single track hardtail for sure but we have too many roots, rocks, ruts, etc, etc, and I'm definitly faster on the full suspension.

This season I'll probably use a Monocog 29er since the price is right and it will be my first season...

I likely won't have the time to do more than a few races due to work and school anyways, if my short-lived cyclocross season was any indication.

The 29er version is to soak up the bumps on the cheap. As cypress noted Montana trails are not always frequently traversed, and are quite rocky, at least around Missoula where I go to school.

And though I've never owned FS I don't doubt that whether it is ideal or not depends greatly on the terrain (duh?) and to some extent the distance of the race. For example I can go about twice as long on local trails on a hardtail as I can on a cyclocross bike. The latter takes a lot of mental energy as you always have to be paying really close attention to your lines, and it just beats you up physically.

all depends on the course; if theres a lot of climbing go on a hardtail and if there isnt much climbing and is more technical do it on a hardtail...your but and back will love you for it...i am doing a race in one month that has over 11,000ft elevation gain on a full suspension!

Where's the softail option? ;)

^^Dead and buried ;)

I'll soon have a 5in travel xc bike and my salsa hardtail

THIS DOPE HAS TO BE A ROADIE , THE DOPE IS ADVOCATING DRUGS AS THE FIRST STEP IN GETTING BETTER. DROP OVER AND TRY TO STEAL SOME CLEAN URINE,
it's basic training facts that you train with weight to get stronger, almost all world class atheletes integrate weights into the big picture:p

What's the problem with doping? Silly MTB Weenies.

THIS DOPE HAS TO BE A ROADIE , THE DOPE IS ADVOCATING DRUGS AS THE FIRST STEP IN GETTING BETTER. DROP OVER AND TRY TO STEAL SOME CLEAN URINE,
it's basic training facts that you train with weight to get stronger, almost all world class atheletes integrate weights into the big picture:p

Training with weight does help, but you don't see champion runners training with weights on their ankles whenever they run. You also need to train speed, and other aspects. A good training regimine would incorporate resistance workouts, endurance workouts, anaerobic workouts, speed work, etc in an organized manner. You can't say you should always do the weights workout whenever you ride (heavy bike) and expect to get better. You only feel faster than what you're used to come race day.

Dual susp. now.... road and raced xc for years on a hard tail. not interested in going back. The control in technical sections is day and night. There is alot of yak about weight and power transfer, for me it just doesn't cut it.

I'm poor and dont race all that much (For now. . .) so I race a HT. Does fine on our gnarly Ohio trails.

I rode the new S-Works Epic at Interbike (Outdoor Demo); ride this bike and you'll never ride a hardtail again. :D

Not really, If you train on something thats "heavy" then your body will get used to it and be able to keep the same pace as someone with a "light" bike. Assuming both riders are at the same fitness level. I can keep a 20mph average for 27 miles with roadies on a 28LB mountain bike with slicks.

Ok so you bought different tires and rims and switch the tires out on your mtb when you ride on the road? I am looking for an answer to this question... Thanks!

Hard Tail all the way here. I ride a Klein Adroit, which I bought as a frame and assembled. I love this bike. It climbs like a billygoat on crank. I can whip it around, and in the corners, she is surgical. I do notice that some choppy, fast down hills can get hairy, but I am willing to make that sacrifice to have a light, nimble bike that efficiently puts the power to the dirt. I know that you can do that with a FS, but the price difference would be substantial, and in my case prohibitive.

As a funny side note, my riding buddy affectionately knick named my bike “The Tuning Fork”. He used to make fun of me all the time… until he rode it. Guess what he just bought on ebay? That’s right, a Washing built Klein Adroit frame.

In my extensive racing so far (two races) I've ridden FS, but that's all that I own. If I did own both, it would have been 50/50 (HT on the dirt crit for sure and FS on my 6 hour). Since my FS weighs less than my old HT, I don't particularly have any basis there (I know HT's can be less, just sayin'). Power transfer... maybe, but I can get the shock pretty "tense", so I'm not worried about that.