Commuting - Would you wear a motorcycle helmet?

Was reading the skeletor thread and it occurred to me that motorcycle helmets would actually do a lot of good for cyclists in preventing head and neck injuries (and death vs cars). Seems like overkill at first glance, but there's evidence to suggest that existing bike helmets do very little, other than to instill a false sense of security. Also, it's considered normal for scooter riders to wear one and they don't go much faster than bicycles. Another plus is that you won't need googles or safety glasses due to the full face shield.

Motorcycle helmets these days are pretty lightweight and well-ventilated; here's one with a carbon shell:

http://www.ridegear.com/images/large/ac12carbon.jpg
http://www.ridegear.com/rg/item/F-33934/HJC/AC-12-Carbon-Helmet.html

It's mostly because of heat; a motorcycle helmet would trap the heat from your head and you'd be sweating buckets in no time. It would work well in the winter, though.

Also, that helmet is $400!

Only if it is CF!
Seriously, no. Mainly for the heat issue mentioned before. That and style.

too hot - even in winter

no.

I was walking somewhere recently and passed by a well-dressed woman riding her English 3-speed style commuter w/ a full face bmx helmet. That has to be better than the usual bike helmet, but a motorcycle helmet would be the real deal. I wonder about rock climbing helmets too, what standard they're tested to.

Would you wear a bicycle helmet on a motorcycle?

You can find full-face bicycle (BMX/DH) helmets that are made for bicycling, a lot cheaper. They're also better ventilated (sometimes)

examples?

Why stop there? Make sure you also wear a motorcycle jacket and pants for increased safety. Of course the increased weight, limited flexibility, and suffocating heat would require the addition of some sort of motor on your cycle. You could call your upgraded bike a motorcycle. :)

Why stop there? Make sure you also wear a motorcycle jacket and pants for increased safety. Of course the increased weight, limited flexibility, and suffocating heat would require the addition of some sort of motor on your cycle. You could call your upgraded bike a motorcycle. :)

Or, radical thought I know, we could keep our speed down to a level that they do in most of the world which isn't much faster than a person can run and therefore keep the possible impact speed down to a reasonable level.

And most of these places don't bother with helmets. But, if you wish to play crash test dummy, it is better to dress like one. :D

examples?
When I was looking at them, I found several models. Here are some of the ones I was considering:

http://www.xsportsprotective.com/protec-ace-spade-red.html

http://www.xsportsprotective.com/sixsixone-pro-bravo.html

http://www.xsportsprotective.com/bell-bellistic-gracia.html

After trying some on, I determined that they're still a bit on the warm side for a Kansas City summer (for commuting, at least). Now that it's winter, they might actually work pretty well.

I wonder how it would feel in a 118F (+15F on top of this for full sun exposure) summer day while moderately exerting myself. Would I even survive a 10mi ride?

I have always wondered if it would be possible to design a cycling specific helmet using modern materials that provides better protection than the current one did without a significant compromise in ventilation or weight. Right now its seems all helmet manufacturers are designing to optimize one or more of lowest cost, lowest weight, highest ventilation & best looks while just barely meeting minimum of standards. There is no incentive to do better than minimum.

Al

I don't wear one on my motorcycle, so I doubt I'd wear one on my bicycle.

I wonder about rock climbing helmets too, what standard they're tested to.

Climbing helmets are to protect you from falling debris, not from cycling accident types of impacts. They're basically an internal suspension system and a plastic shell; like a construction hardhat.

I saw a commuter once wearing a full face MC helmet, and once when I didn't have a bike helmet I wore my open face helmet I used when I used to race my car for a couple weeks on my mountain bike, I've got black hair and have found helmets keep my head much cooler, especialy on hot days. I do experience discomfort from the straps though, motorcycle helmets cover more of your head so the strap contact area is smaller.

The overwhelming objection seems to be the heat issue; this is a real show-stopper. I think the only way around this is to incorporate some form of active cooling. Imagine a liquid-filled membrane (most likely water) that lines the interior of the helmet and is in contact with your head. The liquid is circulated through a thermoelectric cooler with the aid of a small electrostatic pump at the base of the helmet, both powered by a small li-ion battery--which can be charged at home or by thin film solar cells lining the outside of the helmet.

The overwhelming objection seems to be the heat issue; this is a real show-stopper. I think the only way around this is to incorporate some form of active cooling. Imagine a liquid-filled membrane (most likely water) that lines the interior of the helmet and is in contact with your head. The liquid is circulated through a thermoelectric cooler with the aid of a small electrostatic pump at the base of the helmet, both powered by a small li-ion battery--which can be charged at home or by thin film solar cells lining the outside of the helmet.

Now I am getting that weight concern feeling. ;)

Al

no. too hot and too heavy...if I really felt the need for full head coverage, I'd buy a downhill MTB helmet before a moto helmet.

Now I am getting that weight concern feeling. ;)

Al

All you need to do is install a fan on the top. Much like a beanie with a twirling propeller. :rolleyes:

I would assume you could generate a bit of lift to offset the weight. :lol:

No.

DH helmet? All winter long.

All you need to do is install a fan on the top. Much like a beanie with a twirling propeller. :rolleyes:

I would assume you could generate a bit of lift to offset the weight. :lol:

That's an excellent idea! Give the helmet a wing-shaped cross-section so it can generate some lift at high speeds.

No way.

While I do ride a motorcycle sometimes I would never wear my motorcycle helmet on my bicycle. They are too confining, give you even less field of view, they are too heavy and I'd sweat and overheat quickly in a motorcycle helmet.

I wouldn't. I motorcycle commuted for years with top quality Shoei helmets. They are still a pain in the butt. THey are hot, even though there is little physical exertion involved with motorcycling. I'd melt on a bike with one.
I can barely stand that little styrofoam cooler thing that passes for a bike helmet.

I wonder how it would feel in a 118F (+15F on top of this for full sun exposure) summer day while moderately exerting myself. Would I even survive a 10mi ride?

I have always wondered if it would be possible to design a cycling specific helmet using modern materials that provides better protection than the current one did without a significant compromise in ventilation or weight. Right now its seems all helmet manufacturers are designing to optimize one or more of lowest cost, lowest weight, highest ventilation & best looks while just barely meeting minimum of standards. There is no incentive to do better than minimum.

Al

Bell used to have a hard shell helmet called the V1-Pro. http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:KPUdi-9g124McM:http://www.bellsports.com/main/about/history/images/V1pro.jpg

Nice helmet and perhaps my third bike helmet... with the Skid Lid being the first and second.

Ventilation wasn't too bad; it was a tad heavy and I noticed it on longer rides (80+miles) with a sore neck, there were no funny extrusions in the back, so no issues of the helmet catching anything that could wrench your neck.

But they long ago dropped the line and went to the same thin shell and foam as everyone else.

Personally I think they should bring it back. I still have it, but the foam inside is dried out and the straps have rotted away.

I recall reading a bit ago about some new material that absorbs impact in a special way... and that perhaps might be used for newer helmets... but that is for the future. The material is much thinner... perhaps coupled with a CF hardshell and the thinner material, helmets might be quite a radial departure from the mushroom head things we have today.

CF roll cage ftw.

Too hot, too heavy, unable to hear as much, etc. I'll settle for a rounder-shaped bike helmet with rear coverage that's deeper than normal; usually MTB-marketed helmets fit this style.

I don't buy the premise that bicycle helmets aren't effective in preventing most head injuries.

no

Way too heavy.....you would have a whole new balance to adjust to.

Too hot, too heavy, unable to hear as much, etc. I'll settle for a rounder-shaped bike helmet with rear coverage that's deeper than normal; usually MTB-marketed helmets fit this style.

Also takes away from your peripheral vision unless you wear a non full-face helmet.

I recall reading a bit ago about some new material that absorbs impact in a special way... and that perhaps might be used for newer helmets... but that is for the future. The material is much thinner... perhaps coupled with a CF hardshell and the thinner material, helmets might be quite a radial departure from the mushroom head things we have today.

http://www.ribcap.ca/en/productsrib.asp?cat=11&subcat=4&id=87

Too hot, comparatively poor ventilation, potentially leading to heat injuries.
Too heavy, possibly contributing to neck and spinal injuries.
Reduced peripheral vision.
Reduced ability to hear, particularly from the rear.
More expensive.

No, I would not wear one. Not even if they were free.


Too hot, too heavy, unable to hear as much, etc. I'll settle for a rounder-shaped bike helmet with rear coverage that's deeper than normal; usually MTB-marketed helmets fit this style.

The Bell Metro (Citi) fits this description. I have one and have to say that it's the first helmet I have had that I truly like. But truth be told, I usually only wear it at night (which is every commute to work) because it makes a convenient place to mount my helmet light and a tertiary taillight. Otherwise I wear a ballcap, depending on which style bike I'm on.

The Bell Metro (Citi) fits this description. I have one and have to say that it's the first helmet I have had that I truly like.

I've got one of those, too. I also have a Giro Xen that I use most of the time; I've usually got the Metro with its rain cover snapped on.

I wouldn't wear a motorcycle helmet, my neck would spasm in a couple of miles. I don't even wear a bicycle helmet all that often. I don't ride much faster than I can run and I use my brakes on hills when I get going too fast, unless I have a good surface and no traffic. I average 15 mph on most rides and that doesn't seem fast enough to make a helmet necessary. If I get hit by an auto I figure a helmet won't help much either way. :eek:

Never, absolutely pointless. It's called a motorcycle helmet for a reason.

A motorcycle helmet gets hot just standing still and I can barely stand my super vented Bell in the summer, this would be a bad idea.

i only wear my motorcycle helmet jogging... and in the car of course.

I wouldn't wear a motorcycle helmet, my neck would spasm in a couple of miles. I don't even wear a bicycle helmet all that often. I don't ride much faster than I can run and I use my brakes on hills when I get going too fast, unless I have a good surface and no traffic. I average 15 mph on most rides and that doesn't seem fast enough to make a helmet necessary. If I get hit by an auto I figure a helmet won't help much either way. :eek:

The one collision I had with a car and the couple near misses were when the auto was traveling at low speed (turning, pulling out, etc). Bike helmets are a good thing. Your head hitting the pavement at 15 mph is plenty fast enough to do serious damage. We had a friend who forgot her helmet one day when she took her bike to her favorite (paved) trails. She fell and hit her head. She was out cold. Doesn't even remember how she crashed. Ended up missing a couple of weeks of work and is very lucky she's not going to have permanent damage. My guess is that she was going < 15 mph.

Probably not. It'd look goofy for one, and it's way too bulky. Also would impare my vision somewhat, requiring mirrors and such. And yeah, sounds like I would generate a lot of sweat like many others have stated. Maybe you're asking to get in a crash, but I try my best to avoid them, so a normal bicycle helmet would be most efficient.

The one collision I had with a car and the couple near misses were when the auto was traveling at low speed (turning, pulling out, etc). Bike helmets are a good thing. Your head hitting the pavement at 15 mph is plenty fast enough to do serious damage. We had a friend who forgot her helmet one day when she took her bike to her favorite (paved) trails. She fell and hit her head. She was out cold. Doesn't even remember how she crashed. Ended up missing a couple of weeks of work and is very lucky she's not going to have permanent damage. My guess is that she was going < 15 mph.

Guess I better slow down my running then.....or wear a helmet when doing that too. :eek:

If your riding ability sucks to the point that you even consider a full face motorcycle helmet, do society a favor and walk.

http://www.80stees.com/images/products/Star_Wars_Boba_Fett-Helmet.jpg

You would need the rest of the outfit to go with that one.
Imagine tights, cycling jersey, and a boba fett helmet. :p
One could alternate between Darth Vader as well.

No. The biggest helmet I might wear for bicycling would be a full face freeriding/downhill helmet. And I think that's overkill.

Guess I better slow down my running then.....or wear a helmet when doing that too. :eek:

Sorry, I don't put much stock in the "I bike only as fast as I can run therefore I don't need a helmet" argument.

1. Crashing a bike is NOT the same as tripping over a root
2. Anybody who AVERAGES 15 mph running down a bike lane for 7 MILES should be wearing a helmet too.

Most people I know are lucky to top 10 to 15 mph running, couldn't manage to sustain it for more than a few seconds and are on grass while they're doing it.

I also had this in mind when I posted:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=369980

Mainly tells of how very experienced cyclists were hit by inattentive or drunk drivers. There was nothing they could to avoid the collisions and they mostly ended up dead or with massive head/neck/spine injuries. I'm thinking that even though there's nothing we could do to prevent being hit, there might be something we could do to minimize the injury.

But I think the consensus is clear. Motorcycle helmets in their current form would be too bulky and hot to wear on a consistent basis. What we really need is a much better cycling-oriented helmet, like the Giro Xen for example. From personal experience I've found skating helmets (pro-tec, triple 8, etc.) to be vastly superior to cycling helmets in minimizing head injury. I fell very badly many times while skating where the only part of my body not hurt was my head and neck. The difference is the very thick elastomeric padding inside skate helmets that absorb most of the impact. Contrast to cycling helmets that are rock hard (in order to support multiple vents) and transfer quite a bit of momentum to the head before crushing. Motorcycle helmets are more similar to skate helmets in this regard, with softer padding inside surrounded by a hard shell.

I think I'll probably end up going with the very best ventilated skate helmet I can find.

I also had this in mind when I posted:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=369980

Mainly tells of how very experienced cyclists were hit by inattentive or drunk drivers. There was nothing they could to avoid the collisions and they mostly ended up dead or with massive head/neck/spine injuries. I'm thinking that even though there's nothing we could do to prevent being hit, there might be something we could do to minimize the injury.

But I think the consensus is clear. Motorcycle helmets in their current form would be too bulky and hot to wear on a consistent basis. What we really need is a much better cycling-oriented helmet, like the Giro Xen for example. From personal experience I've found skating helmets (pro-tec, triple 8, etc.) to be vastly superior to cycling helmets in minimizing head injury. I fell very badly many times while skating where the only part of my body not hurt was my head and neck. The difference is the very thick elastomeric padding inside skate helmets that absorb most of the impact. Contrast to cycling helmets that are rock hard (in order to support multiple vents) and transfer quite a bit of momentum to the head before crushing. Motorcycle helmets are more similar to skate helmets in this regard, with softer padding inside surrounded by a hard shell.

I think I'll probably end up going with the very best ventilated skate helmet I can find.

Motorcycle helmets aren't so heavy that you'll be risking neck injury but they do fit very snug and encompass your entire head. This would be very uncomfortable for someone riding a bicycle not to mention the hearing impairment.

I have a Shoei RF1000 I wear when I ride my motorcycle but there is no way I'd be even remotely comfortable wearing it on a bicycle. I wore it once during a go-kart race and was sweating inside the helmet after just a few laps muscling a go-kart around the track (these karts do over 40 mph and have racing harnesses and helmets are mandatory). Not to mention this particular helmet costs $350...I can't imagine the smell inside after only a few rides. Also, the visor is prone to fogging in cooler air when you're not moving so if you were sweating inside it you'd probably always have problems with it fogging up.

I'll stick with my Bell Sweep R.

I dunno about skate helmets, but moto helmets are NOT just "elastomeric padding" inside a hard shell. Between the foam rubber used for fit inside the helmet and the outer, hard layer, there's a layer of the same expanded foam that makes up bicycle helmets. This deforms when crashed and provides the bulk of impact absorbtion in the event of a motorcycle crash, not the soft foam used on the inside of the helmet for fit.

Everyone already mentioned the reasons, but tops for not using a moto helmet:
1. Heat (or in the Winter, fogging of full face shield)
2. Weight
3. Loss of peripheral vision
4. Loss of hearing

However. There's this padding used in some moto armor that is soft and pliable, but on impact, stiffens up. Not sure the impact absorbtion ability is to the point that it could be used in helmets, but I'd buy something with that stuff in it, that was certified to at least the same minimums as regular helmets, in the form of the old leather hairnets. Muy retro!

It's mostly because of heat; a motorcycle helmet would trap the heat from your head and you'd be sweating buckets in no time. It would work well in the winter, though.
no it wouldn't because you would not be able to breathe. Unless motorcycle helmets are more breathable than fullface bike helmets, i have to take mine off every couple of minutes to catch my breath