get a sticky

check out www.ebikehub.com (http://www.ebikehub.com)

Go to batteries, there is a link to the batteryspace forum there + other info.

You certainly can have a sticky thread for batteries - not a problem at all :D

Yesa battery, lithium iron phosphate-- http://www.yesa.com.hk/
-low-cost seller of lithium iron phosphate batteries. good customer service, long lasting batteries, but you will have solder on your own battery-connector and make your own protective package to keep the battery electronics safe. the batteries are much lighter/smaller than equivalent-range lead acid or ni-cad batteries. Prices are higher than the lowest-price e-bay lithium iron phosphate batteries, but not by a whole lot. I have one of these batteries and I highly recommend them.

http://ebikes.ca -- sells batteries (and many other e-bike items). Includes ni-cad, SLA, NiMh, and lithium.

DeWalt 36V battery on e-bay
http://search.ebay.com/dewalt-36v-battery_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300
DeWalt's 36V batteries are said to be excellent for e-bikes but only if you are willing to put a lot of do-it-yourself effort in to repackage them for a reasonable riding range, etc. These 36V (actually closer to 33V) packs are a high quality lithium iron phosphate type.

I've heard LiFePo4 Batteries are good??? There are a few sellers on Ebay and they range from 150 to $300. Should these be trusted? Do they have warranties? They're coming from people in China mostly and they're covered in Duct Tape it looks like lol Go to ebay and type in Lifepo4 and you'll see what I mean. Are there any "respected" websites that sell similar lifepo4 batteries with warranties and the like?

Did someone say batteries ?
They are certainly the key.
Please dont buy from some chinese unknown.
Support your USA battery suppliers ok ?
LiFePO4 only at falconev.com

DO NOT vote for osama

How long do those types of batteries last anyway?

ELMO

5 years for good ones, much less for thundersky, ping. yesa. ebay stuff

I ended up choosing B&B's HR22 AGM batteries, they seem to be top of the line when it comes to SLA AGM batteries and they use high quality virgin lead. www.zbattery.com has the best prices on B&B batteries that I could find anywhere. Also, don't be tricked by the batteries on batteryspace.com, they look like B&B's on the site, but they are actually much lower quality Tysonic copies. They are only about $10 cheaper for a much lower quality battery.

I've looked at the B.B. HR's also but don't know how many cycles those have. I emailed the company. Waiting for a return. What I've found through the company's website graphs so far is this:

BP series: 180 full cycles at .25C
EB series: 300 full cycles at 5 amp(12v-12ah)
EVP series: 300 full cycles at 1C
EP series: 325 full cycles at .25C
HR series: ?

Personally, I have the BP series because thats what came in my kit plus I didn't know at the time. With 2600 miles on them in 2 years, I believe that the end is near as range is noticable down now. I like how the EVP series was tested at 1C. I'm leaning towards those right now but would like to know more about the HR series. I know they have more performance but no info on cycles. The EP series is slightly lower in performance then the BP series and tested at only .25C.

The shelf life of LIFEPO4 batteries is supposed to be in the 2,000 cycle range, (which is a very long time) for quality manufacturers. China is the maker of most of these, because the labour involved and toxicity. Some use quality ingredients from "Phostec" in Canada who hold a patent on some of these powders.

www.ebike.ca is a supplier of 24, 36, and 48 volt 12 AH batteries, and test them etc.

LIFEPO4 is still in the infancy stages but for safety and dollar for watt/ hour of use, it is the chemistry of choice, I bought a 48 volt 12ah for my bike and will keep you guys posted of the results as i also have a Cycle Analyst to record everything that's going on.

Most people that report problems are the BMS (battery managament System) attached to these batteries to keep them balanced and from over discharge which can damage them permanently. But a good supplyer will replace these at no cost, and they are getting better by the day.

SLA will probably be the battery chemistry of choice for storage applications for years yet. In fact, I expect further advances in SLA technology to increase capacity and decrease weight for any given size. For example, last year limited production began in a couple of companies using Power Technology's * Reticulated Vitreous Carbon based electrodes. Unfortunately, these companies aren't mass producing this technology yet.

* http://www.pwtcbattery.com/technology/

The shelf life of LIFEPO4 batteries is supposed to be in the 2,000 cycle range...

Don't wish to nit-pick you bro but shelf life is much different than charge cycles. I've heard lithium shelf life may only be a matter of couple years even if they're never charged/discharged. Sorta like Capacitors in that regard. Dunno 1st hand - just reading here & there like everybody - but something that probably deserves more investigation IMO.

If you only need a small AH capacity (short commute - testing components) are on a budget - lead is still pretty hard to beat IMO.

A charger based on some of Bedini's investigations into radiant energy (Tesla). I know. This field makes many people cringe, but if it works, it works. Although I haven't tested these chargers, I plan on it. If these chargers even approach the claims for them, they'll pay for themselves very quickly. A Renaissance charger combined with Power Technology's new RVC electrodes brightens SLA's future even more.

http://www.r-charge.com/

where find good reliability battery for nimh for ebikes?
what you opinion reliability abttery?

does anyone have any experience with the dewalt 24 volt power tool batteries - I have a 48 volt crystal lite system and was thinking of supplementing my SLA batterys with 2 Dewalts to extend my distance. Thanks for any advice!

A charger based on some of Bedini's investigations into radiant energy (Tesla). I know. This field makes many people cringe, but if it works, it works. Although I haven't tested these chargers, I plan on it. If these chargers even approach the claims for them, they'll pay for themselves very quickly. A Renaissance charger combined with Power Technology's new RVC electrodes brightens SLA's future even more.

http://www.r-charge.com/

I ordered this charger recently. After it arrives and I've informally tested it a bit, I'll state my impressions. Hopefully, it'll pay for itself rapidly. If some of the remaining problems with SLA technology can be mitigated soon (2009-2010) at minimal cost, I don't foresee moving to a different chemistry in the near future.

I received the Renaissance charger (RC-2A12-2), but I haven't used it yet. BTW, this charger is not designed specifically for charging SLA batteries. However, the charger can be used on an infrequent basis to charge SLA batteries which was my intention in the first place. In other words, use your "smart" charger for day to day charging of your SLA batteries and use the Renaissance charger only as absolutely necessary to maintain a working voltage, e.g. 12.66 volts, on a 12v battery. Furthermore, the Renaissance charger is not designed to charge batteries less than 20AH which can be overcome by charging two 12v SLA 10AH batteries in parallel on an infrequent basis. The latter setup should be nearly perfect * for use with a 24v Currie system. More later...

* Adding additonal 12v loads (e.g. starter batteries) in parallel with SLA batteries is wise with this charger to keep heating of SLAs minimal, but not essential since this charger won't be used for routine charging of SLA batteries.

I don't see any mention of the FireFly Oasis battery technology.
Supposedly they have been able to significasntly reduce the amount of lead need to build flooded lead acid batteries by laying the lead on to a foam "backer" of sorts. The promotional photos show equivalent AH cells with the FireFly being about 1/3 the size of the wet cell. They are now supplying batteries to various Electrolux products.
As I understand it this company was spun off from Caterpillar when they were searching for more durable batteries for their industrial machines.

"This battery technology was first patented by Alvin Snaper of Tang and IBM Selectric fame. This technology was licensed to Power Technology, PWTC. Members of of the scientific team took certain aspects of the technology with them to FireFly which had the capital to further refine existing patent rights.

"Mr. Alvin Snaper has served as a Senior Consultant to other major corporations and organizations, including IBM, General Foods, NASA, Boeing, Gillette, Singer, U.S. Air Force, Rocketdyne, General Motors, Lockheed Aircraft, Sanyo, Philips, Gulf Western, Union Carbide, etc. He has been awarded more than 600 patents, many for significant industrial products and processes. Some of his inventions and commercial products include the IBM Selectric Type Ball, Tang, the NASA Apollo Photo- Pack, Coating Process for Gillette Razor Blades, and the Electrostatic Painting Process & System for Auto Components Assemblies for General Motors, to name a few. Mr. Alvin Snaper holds the single honor and individual distinction of being recognized three times with 'Best Patent of the Year' award by Design News magazine, and is the author of numerous technical and scientific papers.

Alvin Snaper is or has been a member the following professional societies and organizations: Who's Who of American Inventors 1990-1991; VIP Electronic Improvement Program; American Ordnance Association. He is a former consultant in ultrasonics to the Library of Congress, Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association, International Scientific Society and The Society of Photographic Instrumental Engineers."

Posted at 7:45PM on Jan 27th 2008 by Gary Moodie

Does ping have a competitor? Seems like nobody can get close to the prices of Ping's lifepo4 batteries.

... lead is still pretty hard to beat IMO.

Lead is the worst choice by far, it suffers from the "peuKert effect" (sp) which sucks power from the motor when you need it the most, like accelerating from a stop light. And only has about 300 cycles.

Pay more at the beginning and have better power density, half the weight with NIMH, li-mg or LIFEPO4

There is a group buy on www.endlesssphere.com for top quality LIFEBATT's going on right now, but will be over end of the month.

*** For this test, I'm NOT using a SLA battery for a bicycle hooked in parallel, but it'd be easy to do. I don't have a need to use SLA batteries with this charger ... yet. The test includes two 12v FLA automotive batteries. However, this test will either prove or disprove the capabilities of the R. charger in my mind as long as the individual cells are OK.

Originally, I thought the Renaissance charger was bad, because I had it hooked up to one of the 12v batteries and the LED light remained off. After a brief pause, I decided to check another 12v battery and this time the LED light glowed red so I knew the charger was OK. I then checked the voltage on the battery which failed to light the LED and it was , ahem, 3v *. The Renaissance charger will not even function unless the operating voltage is at least 9v. So, I got out the jumper cables and hooked the two 12v batteries in parallel. The Renaissance charger is now charging both of the batteries. Will this charger bring the bad 3v battery to a workable level? We'll see. If it does, I just likely saved $60. The charger itself costs $200+. In a day or so, I'll post the voltage levels on the bad battery. IIRC, I charged the bad battery about 12 months ago with a different 12v charger so I'm concerned that some cells are beyond repair. We'll see.

6/27/08-6/29/08: Charger test needs some changes. My "good" battery isn't so good so I'll have to concentrate on it first. The voltage was barely 9v so at least it's charging with the R. charger. When it's finally charged, then I'll switch back to a parallel setup.

*** BTW, the R. charger is temperamental to setup. I'm still investigating the proper method of connecting the charger. The manual is brief and covers the highlights, but ... When the manual states the one must disconnect the AC power and then the charger from the batteries and then reconnect them in the reverse order within 60 seconds, it means it, but even that process doesn't always work. However, at the moment the R. charger is charging one 12v FLA battery... Well, after 24 hours on the charger, I decided to pull the plug and let the power supply for the charger cool. The LED never changed from solid red (charging) to solid green (finished). I'll return to finishing the charge on this battery later. As of now, this better battery is 13v after resting a couple of hours which is very good. I want to work on the 3v battery in a parallel setup for awhile. Although the LED of the R. charger lights a solid red (charging) in parallel with the better battery, the 3v battery emits significant gas and heat so I'm limiting the charge time to about 10 minutes initially to allow the battery to cool between charge cycles. I hope to work beyond the limited time progressively. The R. charger has a thermal sensor to protect it from excessive heat. Although, I'd personally like a higher cutoff temperature, adding additional thermal protection (heat sinks) would add significantly to its cost. If the temperature of the posts on the battery rises above a specific level, the charger shuts off automatically which is why I'm having difficulty charging the 3v battery. The 3v battery appears hopeless, but I'll continue trying as I get more time. Due to excessive heat, I currently have to charge the 3v battery early in the morning only... The longest charge for the 3v battery so far has been 50 minutes so the battery is slower to heat than it used to be which gives me hope that this battery can be fully reclaimed eventually. If I can't fix it by Monday, I'll have to let it sit for a couple of weeks as I'll be busy elsewhere.

Blinking RED indicates that the battery is properly connected to the charger, but the AC power is not... but that's a crock because my AC source is just fine. I called customer service at r-charge.com, and they said a possible problem might be the 24DC output of the power supply. The center post on the output connector of the power supply is positive and the ring is negative. He said that the company has had a few returns of the power supply (not the charger), but all of the chargers and their power supplies are checked before shipment. I've checked the output and it is fine, i.e. 24v.

* The 3v battery was manufactured about October of 1998 so it's ten years old.

There's worthwhile reading at:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com

Has anyone tried making their own battery pack out of D Cell NiMH batteries?
I think (20) of them should be an improvement over the standard 24 volt SLA battery included in the
Schwinn Izip. You could also go to 24 or 30 of them for even more range and power.

I have 2qty F cell nimh packs. 13AH ea. Hardly worth the trouble IMO. You will have serious balance issues with 20 series cells and unless you use them regularly they won't compare to SLA AH range. They lose charge just sitting for day or two. Then if not used regularly they just don't avheive max range. Now stuck carrying more nimh batteries than original SLA. Result = no weight savings.

IMO start with lead and save for lithium.

I just bought a Schwinn Izip with the SLA battery on sale at Canadian Tire for $349.95. I'm just looking at batteries and they are more expensive than the whole bike I bought. I love my NiMH batteries in my camera, I have the same set since 2004 and just keep recharging them, they seem to last forever.
If I take lets say 30 D cell NiMH batteries, but do not weld them, they will be press fit together with springs. This may cause corrosion but I will be able to take the batteries out and charge in pairs (4 at a time), and clean the contacts after each use. There may be a gel for the contacts that will stop corrosion also. With 30 D cells I will be at 36 volt, and should be able to avoid draining them deep enough to get into the balance issues. Any thoughts on this?

sure, give it a try! Remember though your camera pack probably had 6-8 cells in series. Far cry from 20-30. Your camera probably needs well under an Amp too.

Getting 20-25A running through a string that's shoved together doesn't sound very practical to me either.

I've been there done that with $400 worth of nimh batteries - start with SLA - save for lithium.

Tell me if my calculations are correct.
(20) Tenergy D Cell 10,000 mAh batteries
price= $200
Volts= 24 Volt
Ah= 20 Ah (this one I'm not sure of, take 10,000/1000=10/10=1*20= 20Ah ????????)

(30) Energizer D Cell 2500 mAh batteries
price= $107.10
volts= 36 Volt
Ah= 7.5 Ah (not sure about this either, take 2500/1000=2.5/10=0.25*30= 7.25 Ah ??????)

no - 20 series cells would be 10AH

Energizer 30 series cells 2.5AH

Without series/parallel configurations AH will be the single cell capacity.

Plus, I bet you have no idea how much current can be demanded from that battery.

I'm gonna repeat my very EXPERIENCED advice one last time - your idea is not the battery pack for an eBike. Dig?

Thanks, I have lots of time to figure out which way to go. I'm currently having a good old time with the standard SLA battery included. Plenty of power, maybe because it is new. Here's me zipping along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsZw6-9ocFw

Firefly secures additional funding for further commercialization in the 4th quarter of 2008. Hopefully, we'll see some of this advanced SLA technology available for EV applications like bicycles soon.

PEORIA, Ill., Jun 10, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Firefly Energy Inc., ( www.fireflyenergy.com (http://www.fireflyenergy.com/)), the Peoria, Illinois-based company developing a portfolio of next-generation lead-acid battery technologies, today announced it completed a $15 million Series C equity round of financing led by a strategic group of Clean-Tech investors.
Firefly Energy will use its new capital to accelerate into volume production for first-generation products in commercial and military markets. The funding will also be used to support expanded product development, research and product awareness in new markets.
Firefly Energy Inc. ("Firefly") is a Peoria, Illinois-based battery technology company developing a portfolio of lead-acid battery technologies and products to enhance battery performance within major portions of the worldwide battery marketplace, now estimated at $30 billion in annual sales. The company's first applied technology is a microcell foam-based battery technology, which can deliver a unique combination of high performance, extremely low weight and low cost, all within a battery which unleashes the full power potential of lead acid chemistry while overcoming its historical performance drawbacks. Firefly's battery products and their patented microcell technology deliver to battery markets a level of performance achieved with advanced battery chemistries (Nickel Metal Hydride and Lithium) but at one-fifth the cost. Microcell foam battery products can be manufactured as well as recycled within the existing lead acid battery industry's vast infrastructure. Firefly is backed by multi-billion dollar product companies such as Caterpillar ( www.cat.com (http://www.cat.com/))(NYSE:CAT), BAE Systems ( www.baesystems.com (http://www.baesystems.com/)) (London Stock Exchange over the counter symbol:BAESY), and Husqvarna ( www.husqvarna.com (http://www.husqvarna.com/) Other OTC:HSQVY.PK). Additional investors include Chicago-area Venture Capital firm KB Partners ( www.kbpartners.com (http://www.kbpartners.com/)), Quercus Trust, Khosla Ventures ( www.khoslaventures.com (http://www.khoslaventures.com/)), Infield Capital, and the Illinois Finance Authority. SOURCE: Firefly Energy Inc.

Extracted from MarketWatch article ...

[QUOTE=tpreitzel;7191291]Firefly secures additional funding for further commercialization in the 4th quarter of 2008. Hopefully, we'll see some of this advanced SLA technology available for EV applications like bicycles soon.

tpreitzel, nice lead, thanks. In looking at their web page it looks as if things like bicycles are a few years away. But it's good to know they are working toward solving our problems.

if your in canada you can get 20v limn 6ah batteries at canadiantire for 109 each
i'm currently running 2 in my stock bat holder on my izip
many others are using them with great success
fully charged they are 21v each
each bat will pull 31a
are 5 cell
i was running 3 12v 12a
now higher volts @42 v 40 for sla
each bat is 2.76 pounds
i took off 24lbs
charge time from lvc(15v) is 3h
nice bats 1 year warrenty
can be run in series and parallel

thx wasp

if your in canada you can get 20v limn 6ah batteries at canadiantire for 109 each
i'm currently running 2 in my stock bat holder on my izip
many others are using them with great success
fully charged they are 21v each
each bat will pull 31a
are 5 cell
i was running 3 12v 12a
now higher volts @42 v 40 for sla
each bat is 2.76 pounds
i took off 24lbs
charge time from lvc(15v) is 3h
nice bats 1 year warrenty
can be run in series and parallel

thx wasp

http://i37.tinypic.com/2pqw8sp.jpg

http://www.chinatoppower.com/battery/edit/UploadFile/2008827115318506.jpgHi Karma,

I am Danny from China Toppower Battery Company .
We produce high quality LiFePO4 battery . A lot of kinds of
LiFePO4 single cells and high capacity packs are available here such
as :
LiFePO4
18650 1000mAh 1200mAh 1600mAh
26650 2000mAh 2400mAh 3000mAh
42120 6000mAh 7000mAh 8000mAh
...
24V 10Ah 20Ah 30Ah
36V 10Ah 20Ah 30Ah 40Ah
48v 10Ah 20Ah 30Ah 40Ah
....
http://www.chinatoppower.com/battery/edit/UploadFile/200882619189527.jpg

http://www.chinatoppower.com/battery/edit/UploadFile/2008826144751112.jpg

OK, I just got one of these at an estate sale. It seems quite new, no tire wear, and so on. It rides great, but needs a battery pack. I got about 2 miles on my first try (but I hadn't charged it, that was with whatever charge was left when I purchased it.

I got 2.25 miles out of it on my first real test today, and am recharging to see if I can do better tomorrow.

I was pretty much pedaling all the time, but I can feel it assist me, I was riding in a flat area, and I'm not an experienced cyclist, and I'm not young and strong. It seems to stop assisting when a certain tempo is reached, and after reading everything I could find on it I believe this is how it is supposed to work.

I'm pretty happy with the bike, and I plan to use it to go to the local stores and library. I'll bring back groceries, no more than the thing can handle (considering my none to small rear is riding, too). No heavy commuting, just want to be out of the car and exercising as much as I can.

So, I need a new battery pack, and options seem limited. I'm not likely to convert, revert or subvert <g>, I just want to buy a battery.

I've checked a lot of sources suggested in various forums, with no success. Any ideas?

So where did my title go?????
The bike is a Merida PC550. :)

Granny try http://www.atbatt.com/scooter-batteries/b/merida/m/pc-550.asp

Granny sorry that was a scooter. Try this http://largoscooters.com/merida.html they formerly sold Merida bikes, may help.

thanks.

I kinda think that this might belong in the electronics thread, but it is specific to battery technology so I will post it here first.

Here's a charger chip for a single cell lithium ion battery. LM3621. It might prove useful for anyone that wants to mess around with building their own lithium ion power pack.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.net/datasheet-pdf/view/8872/NSC/LM3621.html

if you go to bulk battery suppliers, they will sell you multicell charger board that are more practical than designing a charger curcuit from a small chip like this. but for what it's worth, here it is!

regards
Tyler

i have been running 48 volt sla batteries, with a 12 ah rating. i noticed my low voltage light comes on and the bike starts cutting out after only using 5.25 a/h (as per a watts up meter). Is this normal or do i have a battery problem? The batteries are about 3 mo. old.

i have been running 48 volt sla batteries, with a 12 ah rating. i noticed my low voltage light comes on and the bike starts cutting out after only using 5.25 a/h (as per a watts up meter). Is this normal or do i have a battery problem? The batteries are about 3 mo. old.

It's normal. Unfortunately lead acid batteries will give their full number of amp hours if you use them gradually over 24 hours but if you use their capacity up in one hour they'll only give about half their rated amp hours.

based on $450 for a new battery for my Ezee Torq I figure the cost of riding the bike at about .50 / mile.

Any thoughts here?

Lee

My order just came in this afternoon. Wuhoo!

For my Schwinn Izip, I picked up 4 yardworks batteries, and 2 chargers so I can leave one of the chargers at work.

Just a quick question, I have 2 schwinn battery cases, but instead of putting 2 yw in each case....has anyone tried anything different?

for example. will the 4 batteries sit in the frame of my bike, if I stripp the cases off of them, and build a custom enclosure?

The battery cost per kwhr/cycle ( cycle in as number uses you get before having to replace batteries)
is still very high. For most users the cost for the battery replacement is far morethan the cost of the electricity used to recharge the batteries. I am trying to develop a network batttery exchange stations where you just drop of your old battery and grab aftreshly charged one. To do that we need a standard battery module . Although I did have ecars in mind when I started this project ebikes are probably a more significant user group, since ebikes are already trying to minimize their carbon footprint. Here's the initial spec. If you are interested her's the uRL to my original article:
http://www.members.cox.net/rdoctors/evs.html
I'd like comments:
BATCHANGE
Battery Pack Specification
BPS- RACH-1007-REV A
Application:
Module for EV use. Modular packaging for easy removal for off vehicle low rate charging/conditioning.

Electrical:
Voltage 45-55 , nominal 50 volts.
Discharge current Max current 100 A 5 seconds, 50 A 20 seconds, 30 A continuous, 20 A 1 hour.
Charge acceptance as high as possible for regenerative braking.
Series and/or parallel connections to provide 400 volt systems
BMS required for each pack.

Connector: Andersen style or equal

Dimensions:17" x 7.5" x 4" 430mm x 190mm x 100mm

Weight:Less than 20 Kgs, 22 #

Life :LIfe is dependent on cost.
Goal under $US0.10 /kwHR/cycle.
Examples: lead-acid battery cost $50 for 20AH 48 V pack Life 250 cycles:

Cost /kwhr/cycle= 50/250 = $0.20 ( note that this is 100% greater than goal )

Best price I can find is $600 for 50 volt 20 AH complete with charger.. can anyone find a better price?
Weight is good under 11KGs 24 # and dimensions 17 x 7.5 x 4 " or 430 x 190 x 100 mm

running my truck costs $100 per week in fuel alone, plus another $500 per month bank payment, and another $80 per month insurance.

I've spent about $1200 total on my ebike, and my batteries are warrantied to last a year.

Rather than question your 50cent/per mile figure, I'd just like to add that my options make it quite clear that running my bike as much as possible is a good idea.

In just a few months, the new 2009 Schwinn Tailwind should be available with Toshiba's SCIB battery which recharges in about 30 minutes. Personally, I just want the battery itself, but we likely won't find this battery available for some time yet in retail markets.

http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/tailwind/index.html