Southern California - Pie Ride - 1/27/07

1/24/08: ride has been cancelled due to weather.

Who wants to get up early on a Sunday and drive out to meet up in the middle of nowhere?
Who wants to climb Palomar Mountain and Mesa Grande?
Who wants to do this in January and get a chance to freeze, get blown over or be rained on?
Who wants PIE (http://www.julianpie.com/) topped with melted cheddar and ice cream?

Meet at 6:30 a.m., roll at 7. Rain cancels.
777 Harrah's Rincon Way
Valley Center, CA 920

IN
Mel44
Matteo44
Indolent58
Extort
jsigone
DaveSANYYZ
Efficiency
Mo'Phat
Chucklehead
jschen

Maybe
PaulB
merckx89
maddmike

Matt and I are in!!!! :p;)

Me too!

Hell Yeah!

A week before my race season starts will make this a great training ride for me. Count me in as the tasmanian devil:D

Who wants to get up early on a Sunday and drive out to meet up in the middle of nowhere?
Who wants to climb Palomar Mountain and Mesa Grande?
Who wants to do this in January and get a chance to freeze, get blown over or be rained on?
Who wants pie (http://www.julianpie.com/) topped with melted cheddar and ice cream?

Meet at 6:30 a.m., roll at 7. Rain cancels.
777 Harrah's Rincon Way
Valley Center, CA 92082

I do!

The rest...not so much...but we'll see how this next month goes.

I'm in. :D

I'm a maybe if the scheduling permits.:D

A tentative yes. Unless my coach needs me to do some intervals that weekend.
What the mileage going to look like?

98 miles, 9500 vertical feet

There are two possible extensions for people who are much faster and don't want to wait around for the first group. Both extensions before pie.

Palomar Observatory detour: 9 miles, 1300 vertical feet (emphasis intentional)
Jillian detour: ??? (13 miles, 1500 vertical feet?)

Overall route profile for the basic route is something like this:

Start out climbing Palomar South Grade. 4200 vertical feet in a bit over 12 miles.
Descend Palomar East Grade.
Climb up to the Mesa Grande plateau. Steep, up to 15% at times, but doesn't go on too long.
(Also, this stretch is sheltered from the prevailing east wind, so on windy days, it's actually rather enjoyable.)
Rollers on Mesa Grande.
Descend into Santa Ysabel for pie.
Relatively easy digestive pace ride into Ramona.
Rollers through Highland Valley and Bandy Canyon Roads, with a decent downhill near the end.
Modest hill into Escondido. Piece of cake, but you may be tired by now.
Final 1000 vertical foot climb up Lake Wohlford Rd. Not a tough profile, but at a tough point in the ride.
Final descent back to the start.

I'm thinking of Out and Back Pie route, with going back up East Grade on the return route if the legs say OK. I really don't feel like riding on the 78 to ramona.

I'm thinking of Out and Back Pie route, with going back up East Grade on the return route if the legs say OK. I really don't feel like riding on the 78 to ramona.

right with ya.

frank, i owe you money!

I'm thinking of Out and Back Pie route, with going back up East Grade on the return route if the legs say OK. I really don't feel like riding on the 78 to ramona.

That's fine. Why not organize a separate ride on a separate date? I've done the Pie Ride loop on five occasions and the "Pie Lite" out and back on two occasions. They're both great routes. Other than the first time on the Pie Ride when the group missed the turn onto Old Julian Hwy, I have not had an issue with the route into Ramona. On the other hand, as I recall, we had some buzzing going on on our return on Pie Lite our first time, so that route's not exactly completely free of car hazards, either.

Palomar Observatory detour: 9 miles, 1300 vertical feet (emphasis intentional)
correct me if im wrong, but that's a 14% grade for 9 miles straight.

Palomar Observatory detour: 9 miles, 1300 vertical feet (emphasis intentional)
correct me if im wrong, but that's a 14% grade for 9 miles straight.

9mi and 1300 feet = 2.73%

observatory detour is half DH and half climbing, 9 mile out and back so about 2.x mile climbs on both sides of the lil valley. Not really sure what is steeper or not. But it's a good extension if you have extra time on top while waiting for the group.

Pie Lite or Full on Pie ride, doesn't really matter to me. I'd perfer to stay off the 78 though. The 4 miles total on route 79 is scary enough for me. Pie lite has less traffic though, and simular climbing gains with options for MORE lots MORE. I could care less if it's a century or not. I don't mean to hijack Franks thread, just thinking a safer and more quite route to enjoy

what if we had the pie lite riders meet the rest of the group when they pass harra's?

as an aside, maybe starting the full loop at north county fair would be a better option than valley center. this way you can avoid the crappy traffic conditions on wohlford road by hitting that first thing in the morning. then, instead of going down bandy canyon, you just continue down to I-15 and return to the mall. it'll probably add some miles, but may even be a little quicker. and then there's the matter of better dining options right where you park.

probably in, by the way. i was going to make my first race that weekend, but this is sounding kinda fun.

Proclamation:

I'm in.


/now to just get in shape for the damn thing....
//still uncertain of the route I'm going to do...liking CH's idea of starting at the mall and doing Wohlford first...and they have Macaroni Grill or On the Border for post-ride eats.
///has no problem with the 78. That shoulder is huge compared to some roads I ride. Jeff's gotten soft.
////Pie Ride without the HVR descent is just R-O-N-G rong.

Will I be back on my road bike by then? Probably.

I'm in for punishment.

what if we had the pie lite riders meet the rest of the group when they pass harra's?

as an aside, maybe starting the full loop at north county fair would be a better option than valley center. this way you can avoid the crappy traffic conditions on wohlford road by hitting that first thing in the morning. then, instead of going down bandy canyon, you just continue down to I-15 and return to the mall. it'll probably add some miles, but may even be a little quicker. and then there's the matter of better dining options right where you park.

probably in, by the way. i was going to make my first race that weekend, but this is sounding kinda fun.


Yah if we do the full loop, that is ALOT better place to start, for your reasons and plus it's right off the freeway rather then 30 minutes off any freeway to Harrahs. And we'll get a good warm up going through Esco to get to Wolford hill.

9mi and 1300 feet = 2.73%

9 miles round trip and 1300 feet in half of the distance (since you're descending the rest of the time) is way more than 2.7% grade! :p

probably in, by the way. i was going to make my first race that weekend, but this is sounding kinda fun.

Yah I thought of doing the dominguez Crit that weekend, but I'll wait til the next weekend where both saturday and sunday races are here in SD

So thats more like 5.5%. Thats a lot better. I forgot to convert miles to feet in the first one.

Yah I thought of doing the dominguez Crit that weekend, but I'll wait til the next weekend where both saturday and sunday races are here in SD

You think you'll be recovered enough to do boulevard 6 days after doing this ride?

Jeff knows not the meaning of 'recovery'. He did the Burrito ride on 4 hours sleep and a hangover.

The definition of IRONMAN!

You think you'll be recovered enough to do boulevard 6 days after doing this ride?

For sure!!! Usually only takes me a day if that to recover from a good ride. On Sunday's ride, I was only sore for the 20 minutes it took me to get home. I was more tired then anything but couldn't sleep. A tough day on the bike is when I can't walk down the stairs the following day:D

I plan on doing the Blvd RR (Saturday) and the Red Trolley Crit (sunday)

I lost track of who's doing the regular route, who's doing the Pie Lite, etc. If I missed anyone, let me know. Or just show up at Harrah's. Or wherever.

I lost track of who's doing the regular route, who's doing the Pie Lite, etc. If I missed anyone, let me know. Or just show up at Harrah's. Or wherever.

Great leadership is a thing of wonder.

A. It's perfectly clear to me.

B. Chances are, whatever is decided today, will change tomorrow...let alone six weeks from now.

C. Dan, your snark is peeking through. I like it.

D. Yay...my climbing legs are sprouting again...like a tadpole...or Swamp Thing.

E. Can't decide if I like my Selle San Marco Regal I just got. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it doesn't.

F. Made a scrumptious Filet Mignon with Peanut Sauce and fried shoestring onions yesterday. I are gormet shef. Jealous?

G. I forgot what G was for.

H. Either way, I'm still voting for the underdog...sadly, I'm registered to vote at two different places (some governmental SNAFU)...but one of the places I normally vote burned down in the Rancho Bernardo fire.

I. Go Chargers.

J. Go Duke.

K. Suck it, everybody that plays the above teams.

H. Either way, I'm still voting for the underdog...sadly, I'm registered to vote at two different places (some governmental SNAFU)...but one of the places I normally vote burned down in the Rancho Bernardo fire.



There's voting?

Weren't you following along? Voting for president of the Jelly of the Month club. The polling station I usually go to burned down.

In.

Bump.

And why is ME not on the list?

It's south of OC! :D

Seems like my riding is worse than before the Xmas break. I'll need to seriously train for this ride instead of just talking about it. :p

It's south of OC! :D



Perhaps, but ME has said more than once that she would be up for the Pie Ride. If not now, then when? Huh? Huh?

It's south of OC! :D

Seems like my riding is worse than before the Xmas break. I'll need to seriously train for this ride instead of just talking about it. :p

you and me both. i feel like i've been working really hard, and today i went out and felt really sluggish until about 8 miles in. i've already been told i'm not eating enough, but i just don't see how that can be possible. i've been an eating machine lately.

Well, you're much faster than me regardless. :lol:

Maybe you should weigh yourself once in a while to see if you're gaining weight? For me, it's a good indicator to see if I've been over/under-eating.

the scale means nothing to me, it never changes LOL

So whats the route for this ride? Out and Back Pie or the super loop?

Only Grumpy knows.


But I don't think he knows.

Maybe you should weigh yourself once in a while to see if you're gaining weight? For me, it's a good indicator to see if I've been over/under-eating.


have scale. lost 6lbs since mid december. who knows. it could be, and probably is just a severe lack of motivation. i've been experimenting on my last few rides, going with mp3 player and without. i'm definitely faster without. and when i'm feeling a little motivated, i can spin up hills, whereas for the most part, lately i haven't really made enough of an effort to keep the cadence high. that's when i feel like i'm really struggling.

Only Grumpy knows.


But I don't think he knows.I know but I'm not telling anyone. That's how I know you won't ditch me.

The route is almost the same but the start has changed from the school to Harrah's. I still need to go out there and drive it so I can update the mileage on the routeslip.

What's the opinion on Lake Wohlford Rd? Keep the loop in or take it out? It's probably just as narrow as the last time.

the scale means nothing to me, it never changes LOL

So whats the route for this ride? Out and Back Pie or the super loop?Big loop but see my previous post about Wohlford.

I know but I'm not telling anyone. That's how I know you won't ditch me.

The route is almost the same but the start has changed from the school to Harrah's. I still need to go out there and drive it so I can update the mileage on the routeslip.

What's the opinion on Lake Wohlford Rd? Keep the loop in or take it out? It's probably just as narrow as the last time.

What would the alternative be?

What would the alternative be?Go straight through Valley Center. Lake Wohlford Rd is a loop off of the main road.

What I'll do is get mileage for both ways and maybe get some pictures of both. We can decide later.

Go straight through Valley Center. Lake Wohlford Rd is a loop off of the main road.

What I'll do is get mileage for both ways and maybe get some pictures of both. We can decide later.

I hate Wohlford Road even in a car, but the road through Valley Center has been so torn up with construction it wasn't obvious to me that it would be any safer. It's been a while since I've been out there so things may be different.

For what it's worth, in riding up Lake Wohlford on the Pie Ride on three separate occasions, I have never had issues with cars on Lake Wohlford Rd. I know the road is narrow and the traffic is heavy, but short of ending the ride in Escondido and shuttling people back to the start by car, I don't see a better alternative.

Except perhaps one, but the details for this have never been worked out. It has has been suggested that an Escondido start would allow us to hit Lake Wohlford early, when traffic is light. There are some drawbacks to this, though. We hit Palomar later, so we have to contend with more traffic on Palomar. Figure one hour later if the start is right at the base of Lake Wohlford, so that's not too bad, but if the start gets pushed further and further away from the base of Lake Wohlford, then we've just traded one problem for another. It also eliminates the advantages of a Harrahs start, namely not needing to carry a jacket around just for the first cold descent and ease of returning to the start for anyone choosing to bail out at any point in the first half. Without SAG, our water situation also gets screwy since slower riders end up with about three hours (if not a bit more) of riding to do on their water supply. (Or would we stop at the general store beside the taco shop at the bottom of Palomar? Do they open that early?) That's a heavy price to pay for moving the start to Escondido.

For what it's worth, in riding up Lake Wohlford on the Pie Ride on three separate occasions, I have never had issues with cars on Lake Wohlford Rd. I know the road is narrow and the traffic is heavy, but short of ending the ride in Escondido and shuttling people back to the start by car, I don't see a better alternative.


Well maybe, but if I get hit and die I will be extremely pissed.

Escondido start: We could start at a supermarket on E. Valley Parkway. This would be just west of where we would normally turn onto E.V.P from Bear Valley Parkway. This will be a minor/easy change to the route. I estimate that this would put us one hour behind.

I think the Palomar store opens at 10 on weekends, maybe 11. We don't need the store unless someone needs food. There is the well water 1/2 mile before the store (turned off on 11/15 but I'll check it before the ride) and a hose bibb behind the store. We'll be mostly descending until the Lake Henshaw store.

I suggest we stick to the original Harrah's start and decide on Wohlford Rd. later. At least until I drive out Valley Center Rd.

Sounds awesome. We're so (still) in!



98 miles, 9500 vertical feet

There are two possible extensions for people who are much faster and don't want to wait around for the first group. Both extensions before pie.

Palomar Observatory detour: 9 miles, 1300 vertical feet (emphasis intentional)
Jillian detour: ??? (13 miles, 1500 vertical feet?)

Overall route profile for the basic route is something like this:

Start out climbing Palomar South Grade. 4200 vertical feet in a bit over 12 miles.
Descend Palomar East Grade.
Climb up to the Mesa Grande plateau. Steep, up to 15% at times, but doesn't go on too long.
(Also, this stretch is sheltered from the prevailing east wind, so on windy days, it's actually rather enjoyable.)
Rollers on Mesa Grande.
Descend into Santa Ysabel for pie.
Relatively easy digestive pace ride into Ramona.
Rollers through Highland Valley and Bandy Canyon Roads, with a decent downhill near the end.
Modest hill into Escondido. Piece of cake, but you may be tired by now.
Final 1000 vertical foot climb up Lake Wohlford Rd. Not a tough profile, but at a tough point in the ride.
Final descent back to the start.

I'm in part way, I'll be turning around and climbing East Grade and heading back to the Harrah's unless I can finagle out of work that saturday...

Ian in SD