Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Being thin getting more expensive?

From here (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=369061)


There is a tipping point. I notice it in the city - the middle and lower class really find it hard to afford to eat healthy while those more well off can. Straight up groceries are more expensive - it's cheaper to buy a can of potatoes in syrup then the real thing without the preservatives. That's not even considering organic or higher quality foods. Actually I linked a video that talked about it here. (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=363324)

Some of the stuff you'd get at the organic cafes are expensive and so small that it wouldn't constitute a meal by itself (hence the other courses a la carte). Four combos at McDonalds runs you a little more than $20. For a family of four on the run McDonalds becomes the more economical choice. Supersize for $0.59? Sure thing! I see it with a few of my friends - they are real quick to get take out for the family. One 16" pie? $10 - feeds at least 4 people depending on how hungry they are. You'd be hard pressed to duplicate that with healthier options for the same price. And so it starts - and the more people are used to eating large sizes and are fat the more they need to eat which translates into more business in the long run.

OK, so it turns out that even if you don't want to go the organic route it's still getting more expensive to be thin than fat:


Price of lower-calorie foods rising drastically, UW researchers find (http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=38352)

As food prices rise, the costs of lower-calorie foods are rising the fastest, according to a University of Washington study appearing in the December issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. As the prices of fresh fruit and vegetables and other low-calorie foods have jumped nearly 20 percent in the past two years, the UW researchers say, a nutritious diet may be moving out of the reach of some American consumers.

UW researchers Dr. Adam Drewnowski, director of the Center for Public Health Nutrition, and Dr. Pablo Monsivais, a research fellow in the center, studied food prices at grocery stores around the Seattle area in 2004. They found that the foods which are less energy-dense -- generally fresh fruits and vegetables -- are much more expensive per calorie than energy-dense foods -- such as those high in refined grains, added sugars, and added fats.

When the researchers surveyed prices again in 2006, the found that the disparity in food prices only worsened with time. Lower-calorie foods jumped in price by about 19.5 percent in that two-year period, while the prices of very calorie-rich foods stayed stable or even dropped slightly, the researchers found. The general rate of food price inflation in the United States was about 5 percent during that period, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

"That the cost of healthful foods is outpacing inflation is a major problem," said Drewnowski. "The gap between what we say people should eat and what they can afford is becoming unacceptably wide. If grains, sugars and fats are the only affordable foods left, how are we to handle the obesity epidemic?"

Research conducted by Drewnowski and others at the UW Center for Obesity Research had previously shown that per calorie food costs were much higher for fresh produce and other recommended foods than for fats and sweets. Those studies were based on prevailing food prices in the United States and in Europe.

This project was the first of its kind to track the change in prices over time not by food group, but by food quality. The Labor Department monitors food prices by tracking the cost of an average "food basket," which is calculated based on what American consumers purchase at the grocery store. However, the researchers argue, the inflation rate of the overall basket may drastically underestimate the rising cost of the healthiest foods.

The UW study looked at price inflation in foods grouped by energy density, or calories per gram of food. Energy density is one measure of food quality, since many energy-dense foods also tend to be low in nutrients. People who eat energy-dense foods may consume more calories than they need.

"We are an overfed but undernourished nation," said Drewnowski.

Drewnowski and Monsivais argue that the study provides yet another piece of evidence that obesity isn't just a personal problem -- it's an economic one.

"We need to focus on bigger-scale changes, like the farm bill or other policy measures that can address the disparity in food costs," Monsivais said.

The project was supported by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research in the National Institutes of Health.

My grocery bill definitely went up when I started eating healthier a couple of years ago. I manage it simply by purchasing the fruits and vegetables that are on sale rather than planning meals.

It's a good thing the gov't is still sponsoring corn so High Fructose Corn Syrup can be kept affordable :rolleyes:

What I buy may be more expensive, but I eat much less. My grocery bill has actually stayed the same or even went down in some cases.

Our grocery bill has dropped, as we are all eating healthier, and less. We have a lot less junk food around, and we have a lot of left overs that are a second or third meal, that we didn't have before.

There's a reason people in poor communities are generally fatter and less healthy overall: economics. It's true of most industrialized nations these days.

Not only is it an issue of economics, but it's also an issue of laziness. It really is harder to eat better. It takes more thought and planning, and obviously takes more discipline.

I don't think that most people get everything they can out of the money they make though, so I don't buy the fact that poorer people can't eat better. With some financial planning, I think we could all have a lot more extra money than we have now (or a lot less debt). But, if you're not going to change any other habits, or cut back anywhere else, then maybe it can be just too expensive to eat right.

At any rate, it's a really interesting article/thread. Thanks for the post, Air (and congrats again on your award).

I think it's more about effort and being particular than it is an issue of money.
It's mostly BS that healthy food is more expensive; depends if you're buying a 5kg sack of rice and lentils vs. organic fiddleheads and asparagus.

Boutique-type health food is expensive, but basic vegetables (esp. on sale), rice, pasta, canned veggies, and beans and legumes?? Not pricey at all...

I definitely agree. My grocery bill is now 4 times that which made me over 300 lbs.

Sure, I could easily reduce my current grocery bill, but you'd be hard pressed to come up with a healthy meal plan that costs $35/week or less that would have enticed me away from my college diet of mac n' cheese, hamburger helper, and $0.99 whoppers from burger king.

I think everyones idea of "good" tasting healthy foods are different. I'm happy as heck eating fresh fruit and fresh or cooked veggies. I would say that 3/4 of my diet is whole fresh vegtables and fruit. You really can't get any easier to prepare then washing an apple and eating it. I don't buy the notion that healthier food has to be more expensive. The only way I can see that is in the processed and pre made foods. I'd rather have fresh food and I think that the people don't realize how easy and price comparable it is to eat. I know I didn't realize it untill I started doing it.

Are we arguing fresh fruits and vegetables vs organic fresh fruits and vegetables, or just overall eating healthy? Don't forget that the price as fruits and veggies depend on whats in season and geographic location. For instance I can get strawberries, eggplants, and broccoli pretty cheap in central PA but wont find an avocado under 5 bucks a pop. You know, if you want good cheap and mostly organic veggies, don't overlook your local farmers market or roadside stands. I'm sure this isn't a possibility everywhere but you might be surprised. Also, it only takes a five gallon bucket on a patio to grow a summers worth of fresh delicious tomatoes for a whopping 35 cent packet of seeds. Hot as well as sweet peppers do great in buckets too. All it takes is time, patients, a bit of water and possibly a cage for the plants to lean on.

Are we arguing fresh fruits and vegetables vs organic fresh fruits and vegetables, or just overall eating healthy?

The second one. I think organic stuff was brought up because it's even more expensive, but the thread is just about eating healthy vs. eating junk.

14oz of tofu at my COOP is $1.50. Cheap healthy and is a good food towards getting thin. How about rice, beans, legumes and other grains?

I agree with caincando, healthy convenience food may be more expensive but fresh unprocessed food can still be cheap and extremely healthy.

The second one. I think organic stuff was brought up because it's even more expensive, but the thread is just about eating healthy vs. eating junk.

It's as expensive as you want it to be. My morning breakfast of oatmeal is a lot less expensive than picking up breakfast sandwiches at the local market. Conversely, eating 'real food' for dinner is more expensive than the turkey hot dogs I used to 'dine' on in my 385 pound days.

It's as expensive as you want it to be. My morning breakfast of oatmeal is a lot less expensive than picking up breakfast sandwiches at the local market. Conversely, eating 'real food' for dinner is more expensive than the turkey hot dogs I used to 'dine' on in my 385 pound days.

That could be a life motto. I think people waste so much money, and then complain that they don't get paid enough. If you want to take the time to do things right, I'm convinced that anyone on any budget could eat right. But it does take time and planning.

I think we would all agree that it's easier to eat junk than it is to eat healthy. But I don't buy it if someone says they absolutely can't eat healthy because of money.

That could be a life motto. I think people waste so much money, and then complain that they don't get paid enough. If you want to take the time to do things right, I'm convinced that anyone on any budget could eat right. But it does take time and planning.

I think we would all agree that it's easier to eat junk than it is to eat healthy. But I don't buy it if someone says they absolutely can't eat healthy because of money.

It's about making choices. Just like weight loss itself.

no

it is not more expensive to be thin than fat.

a thin person can survive on eating bearclaws from the vending machine
the same as a fat person. just eat less of them.


it is more expensive to be stupid.

and stupid is what to call it if you think it
costs more to eat less calories. duh. it's less.

just pack less calories down your cake chute. plain and simple it is individual responsibility,
no one else's fault. not ever.

It's about making choices. Just like weight loss itself.

Exactly. Isn't that what life's about? Make good choices, and you'll like the outcome.

I think a growing trend in the world is to not take responsibility for one's choices. Either we blame someone else, or we blame other things. I think, for the most part, we choose to be thin or fat.

Anyways, I think the moral of the story is that nothing's stopping anyone from getting thin or fat. It's up to them.

Exactly. Isn't that what life's about? Make good choices, and you'll like the outcome.

I think a growing trend in the world is to not take responsibility for one's choices. Either we blame someone else, or we blame other things. I think, for the most part, we choose to be thin or fat.

Anyways, I think the moral of the story is that nothing's stopping anyone from getting thin or fat. It's up to them.

YES! YES! YES!

Of course, that's easier typed than done. I need to try to put my money where my mouth is (honestly, no pun intended, although it's pretty funny given the subject of the thread) this year to reach my weight loss goals. Wish me luck.

Pardon the multiple negative:

I can't "NOT" afford to have a healthy diet. :p The associated medical expenses involved with poor diet and obesity are overwhelming eventually, if you don't (Ask me how I know this :D )

Of course, that's easier typed than done. I need to try to put my money where my mouth is (honestly, no pun intended, although it's pretty funny given the subject of the thread) this year to reach my weight loss goals. Wish me luck.

Luck has nothing to do with it. That's the point. :-)

Luck has nothing to do with it. That's the point. :-)

Touche. HAHA. I still do have a lot to change in my mindset, as I have just proven.

Pardon the multiple negative:

I can't "NOT" afford to have a healthy diet. :p The associated medical expenses involved with poor diet and obesity are overwhelming eventually, if you don't (Ask me how I know this :D )

Can I go first, Tom? My hospitalization back in 2005, just for testing, cost over 10 thousand dollars. All that because I had heartburn. :-)

Can I go first, Tom? My hospitalization back in 2005, just for testing, cost over 10 thousand dollars. All that because I had heartburn. :-)

My return to health has topped $500,000.00, and I'm NOT kidding at all! Add up the costs of treatment for endocrine disease, cardiac issues, several years of O2 therapy, my surgery and cost of addressing the side effects....all I can say is WOW! :eek: (I'm looking at another $30,000 or so for excess skin removal and aftercare eventually as well)

My return to health has topped $500,000.00, and I'm NOT kidding at all! Add up the costs of treatment for endocrine disease, cardiac issues, several years of O2 therapy, my surgery and cost of addressing the side effects....all I can say is WOW! :eek: (I'm looking at another $30,000 or so for excess skin removal and aftercare eventually as well)

I don't doubt it, Tom. Incidentally, I wasn't kidding about my hospitalization. I was as serious as a heart attack, which is what the doctors and I thought my problem might have been. Changes in diet and lifestyle have considerably reduced the chance I'll be back to that cardiac ward.

I don't doubt it, Tom. Incidentally, I wasn't kidding about my hospitalization. I was as serious as a heart attack, which is what the doctors and I thought my problem might have been. Changes in diet and lifestyle have considerably reduced the chance I'll be back to that cardiac ward.

Trust me, I believe ya! Actually, you had reason to be concerned, since a Heart Attack can feel just like even a mild case of heartburn ;) Even if it was a false alarm, and thankfully, it was, you did the right thing.

So what would you guys/gal(s) recommend for a meal that is nutritionally sound, fast to prepare, and palatable enough to have for a few days in a row? Presently I am working 16 hour days so I would love to hear some suggestions.

I would say pardon the threadjack but I don't feel it is, it's arguing that food can be nutritional, cheap, fast and palatable. :)

I'm a big fan of stir fried veggies, tofu, and kelp noodles.
You can use some sesame/chili oil to fry 'em all up, and then just use different sauces to flavour it each day.

So what would you guys/gal(s) recommend for a meal that is nutritionally sound, fast to prepare, and palatable enough to have for a few days in a row? Presently I am working 16 hour days so I would love to hear some suggestions.

I would say pardon the threadjack but I don't feel it is, it's arguing that food can be nutritional, cheap, fast and palatable. :)

You could make a HUGE pot of vegetarian chili with lots of veggies and beans. Then freeze it into meal size containers and have one a day. Heat it with either the microwave or the stove.

Same could go for soup.

It's not just more expensive, eating healthier is less ~convenient~ than say the 5-10 minute wait in line for McDonalds. I recently stopped buying pre packaged meals and started cooking mostly organic homecooked meals for me and my husband and our grocery bills are *depending on the day* less or a tiny bit more than they were before. *Usually when I need to get toilet paper or paper towels, but that's not food... I digress*

Like you can make fresh, homemade, hormone free chili, for around 15 dollars, and get a good 8-10 meals out of it, depending on how much you eat, *I make mine w/ buffalo meat*
Only "problem" is you can't eat it for at least 6 hours if you want GOOD chili, where as you can go to wendy's get their 99 cent chili, filled with hormone injected beef, in like, 5 minutes, 10 minutes total if someone in front of you ordered a lot.

Semi relevant rant.
People today are all about speed, "where can I get my food the fastest and cheapest". No one ever stops to think about slowing down, and being patient while their food cooks. God forbid you spend time with your loved one's while doing it.
People claim they don't have time, but if they would hang up their cell phones for an hour and cook, oh, look at that, a meal. If your job requires you to spend all your off work time working, it's time to find a new job...

Anyways.

You just have to know where to buy your organics or if you're just going "natural" which is cheaper, where to buy those. I discovered organic canned veggies today for 1 dollar a can, yeah you can get about double that of the generic brand for the same price, but usually I see organic canned food for 2-3 dollars a can, so I stocked up. :)

You can eat healthier on a low budget, you just have to plan, and look for "manager specials" and sales. Coupons can be helpful too ;) Takes more time at the grocery store cause you actually have to look, but it's possible, just less convenient.

People today are all about speed, "where can I get my food the fastest and cheapest"....
You just have to know where to buy your organics or if you're just going "natural" which is cheaper, where to buy those...
You can eat healthier on a low budget, you just have to plan, and look for "manager specials" and sales. Coupons can be helpful too ;) Takes more time at the grocery store cause you actually have to look, but it's possible, just less convenient.


I just priced out for a year what I spend on organic produce. I also priced out the cost of 2x 48" MetroRack units using 2 shelves each, and 4x 48" fluorescent ballasts with full spectrum AgroSun bulbs. For less than what I spend at the grocery in one year, I can invest in growing my own vegetables and have a renewable seed source, too. (Yes, I took electric costs into account.)
It's more work than stopping by the store and picking up what I need for the day... or is it? I go to the grocery almost every day, which is usually a 20 minute trip. Is tending a 4 shelf indoor garden going to take more than 20 minutes per day? I guess I'll find out. At least I'll know where most of my food comes from.

I'm not really in this catagory (67kg) but it's a great topic-

funny how naturally grown food is specially labelled instead of the other way around. This gives the impression that "fresh produce" is normal food and "orgainic" is some special brand.
It's ridiculous to me that "fresh produce" (genetically modified, altered, grown) does not have nutrition labelling. A store tomato does not have the same nutrition as a real tomato. I try not to buy produce that is not organic and avoid all produce from China (more than you think- read labels)

"organic" is expensive because people buy the marketing. People will buy organic, pretty much no matter what the cost. Thus the huge success of stores like Whole Paycheck. But that's what you gotta do.

Be careful with Organic labelling. I noticed at Von's, they have "ORGANICS" brand food. You would assume it is all organic but it isn't! I grabbed 2 different peanut butters (both ORGANICS brand) one was made of Corn Syrup (as all the major brands are- how they are allowed to advertise it as peanut butter and not corn syrup, I have no idea).

I heard that frozen fruits and veggies are actually contain more nutritional value as they are flash frozen at the pick, rather than sitting in transport then on the shelf.

corn syrup is 3x the sugar content of real sugar. So, 1 corn syrup soda = 3 real sugar sodas. No wonder everyone in the USA has diabetes...

I have 2 simple rules when buying food:
1. No Partially Hydrogenated Oils
2. No Corn Syrup

beyond that, I consider bonus points (like avoiding palm oil, msg & preservatives) but iron clad on two rules and your diet will be great.

*partially hyd oils are so bad, i noticed the food industry is voluntarily phasing it out. I believe, to thwart lawsuits such as the tobacco industry is facing. When it comes out the food industry knowingly used huge amounts of something they knew is harmful... etc, etc

I just priced out for a year what I spend on organic produce. I also priced out the cost of 2x 48" MetroRack units using 2 shelves each, and 4x 48" fluorescent ballasts with full spectrum AgroSun bulbs. For less than what I spend at the grocery in one year, I can invest in growing my own vegetables and have a renewable seed source, too. (Yes, I took electric costs into account.)
It's more work than stopping by the store and picking up what I need for the day... or is it? I go to the grocery almost every day, which is usually a 20 minute trip. Is tending a 4 shelf indoor garden going to take more than 20 minutes per day? I guess I'll find out. At least I'll know where most of my food comes from.

This is my ultimate goal, to buy land and grow my own food, making the occasional trip to the grocery store/health food store to buy what meat that I am unwilling to slaughter myself.
Have you ever heard of earth ships? You should check them out, they're pretty freakin' sweet. :)

In cities it's much harder to grow your own food than at a house. Damned near impossible - you're lucky if you have a kitchen! :eek:

Few quick prices from last week:
Turkey meat: $8 a pound
Chuck beef: $2 a pound
Bag of apples: $7
Oranges: $1.50 each.
Chips: On sale for $1-$2
Soda: $1 for 2 liter

Someone watching pennies is going to go with chuck beef, soda and chips vs turkey & apples.

Incidentally NYC just gave huge discounts for fruit vendors licenses in low income areas - the philosophy is to make it easier and cheaper for those areas to get fresh fruits and vegetables and help lower obesity.

In cities it's much harder to grow your own food than at a house. Damned near impossible - you're lucky if you have a kitchen! :eek:

Few quick prices from last week:
Turkey meat: $8 a pound
Chuck beef: $2 a pound
Bag of apples: $7
Oranges: $1.50 each.
Chips: On sale for $1-$2
Soda: $1 for 2 liter

Someone watching pennies is going to go with chuck beef, soda and chips vs turkey & apples.

Incidentally NYC just gave huge discounts for fruit vendors licenses in low income areas - the philosophy is to make it easier and cheaper for those areas to get fresh fruits and vegetables and help lower obesity.

What kind of turkey are you paying 8 bucks a pound for?

Just ground, 7% lean, 1.3 pounds. I didn't buy it (I 'borrow' some from my folks freezer whenever they stock up on meat) but that's the price.

Just ground, 7% lean, 1.3 pounds. I didn't buy it (I 'borrow' some from my folks freezer whenever they stock up on meat) but that's the price.

Wow, I've never seen this for more than $2/lb in CT or MI. That's some crazy price they're charging you. I also regularly get my apples and oranges for $1 to $1.5 lb, regular price, and often they go on sale.

It's not always...but especially around now it's super expensive and I have no idea why (lack of turkeys cause of Thanksgiving?). There are some other options (store ground) but if it's not a brand I'm familiar with they always seem to throw other stuff in there, it cooks really fatty and doesn't taste like turkey. Maybe bones and organs? Very grainy and gross.

I did a double take at the apples. Pears are a bit more reasonable ($2 a pound) but even things like tomatoes ($4/lbs) are expensive. I do get cheaper veggies (potatoes, carrots) but if I eat too much it makes me feel queasy, need more sustenance. Whole wheat pasta is typically 2-3x regular pasta. There are sales but they make no sense, you get some amount off but only if you've already spent ___ and the amount off depends on how much you've already spent but within a time frame. Whatever. Even for a math major like me I hate figuring out the sales and go by the sticker price. I travel a bit for cheaper prices (especially for cold cuts and meat) but half the time it's hard to get to the other market (30 min bike ride and with my folder filled with groceries not a fun ride in traffic). And the deli's are even more expensive (except for some areas with fruit stands - then that's usually cheaper).

Now let's talk take out. I can get a burger with cheese, bacon, fried onions & mushrooms, and fries for $4.50 delivered to my door. Caribbean place with roast pork, rice (tastes heavily buttered), fried plantains, and beans delivered for $7.20. A day of shopping around, cooking and prepping or picking up the phone for the same price if not cheaper. Easy to see where the unhealthy options are much cheaper than the healthier ones.

Whole wheat pasta is typically 2-3x regular pasta.

This one annoys me. How can the whole wheat cost any more than regular? If anything, you'd think it would be cheaper as they have to process it less. I would typically follow the sales, and stock up when they dropped it to $1/lb (regular price for junk pasta). Then they stopped having sales, but stop and shop started carrying their own brand, regular price $1.25/lb, so not bad.

(except for some areas with fruit stands - then that's usually cheaper).

I just heard on the radio that New York is selling licenses for a bunch of vegetable stands, hoping to get people to eat healthier. Know anything about that?

one factor to take into account for price hikes is the weather problems farmers had, the rising fuel prices and also what crops the gov. subsidizes. (this is the reason corn syrup is cheaper than real sugar in the USA, while even 3rd world countries actually use cane sugar- a better product)

It's not always...but especially around now it's super expensive and I have no idea why (lack of turkeys cause of Thanksgiving?). There are some other options (store ground) but if it's not a brand I'm familiar with they always seem to throw other stuff in there, it cooks really fatty and doesn't taste like turkey. Maybe bones and organs? Very grainy and gross.

You get a huge demand, followed by a large demand, that makes a perishable product hard to get, in Canada where Thanksgiving is a month earlier, growers have 2 months to get another batch of birds ready, for Christmas, hence the prices aren't out of hand. The thing to do, buy your birds in September, when demand is low, stick them in the deep freeze. Also, buy smaller birds, four people don't need a 25lb turkey, in fact a 10lb is too much, especially if you add all the trimmings..... Maybe the best idea, is to take your Thanksgiving turkey, carve off half, put that in the deep freeze, then nuke it for Christmas, You get the nice turkey dinner, without all the work.:D

Another idea, Christmas is the time for remembering what Christ did for all, so how about this, instead of making a big dinner for a few relatives you don't like, then eating and drinking yourself into a situation where it will take 65,536 bike miles to work back off, how about this. You head down to the local mission, after church, and help them to serve Christmas dinner to the less fortunate. Or volunteer to visit those who have no visitors at the old folks home, or hospital. In all cases, check with the organization first, to make sure your services would be helpful. Just thinking 4 Clydes in Santa suits, one with a guitar, singing Christmas carols, can be a hoot for a bunch of forgotten old folks on Christmas day.... :p

I just heard on the radio that New York is selling licenses for a bunch of vegetable stands, hoping to get people to eat healthier. Know anything about that?

Yup - heard the same thing!


Incidentally NYC just gave huge discounts for fruit vendors licenses in low income areas - the philosophy is to make it easier and cheaper for those areas to get fresh fruits and vegetables and help lower obesity.

Here's the article (http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=3&aid=76695)


Mayor, Council Speaker Clear Way For 1,500 New Fruit Cart Permits
December 18, 2007

The city is taking steps to battle malnutrition in some of the area's poorest neighborhoods.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn want to create 1,500 new vendor permits for carts selling only fresh fruit and vegetables.

The permits would be phased in over a two-year period in neighborhoods suffering from high rates of obesity and hunger, and low access to food.

The mayor says there are currently 2,500 New Yorkers on a waiting list for vendor permits.

"The Green Cart legislation has the potential to deliver a product into the market that people want, while also improving the health of an estimated 100,000 New Yorkers,” said Bloomberg. “Over the long term this could save about a hundred lives a year.”

“We're also doing this in a way that I think will help many of the veterans in our city who can get very good, quality employment through being vendors and by also giving a priority to disabled New Yorkers who want to run these carts,” said City Council Speaker Christine Quinn.

The city is also spearheading an effort to create more supermarkets in low-income neighborhoods.

Meanwhile, Councilman Tony Avella wants to the city to stop limiting the number of disabled veterans who can run their own food cart.

If passed, a bill he has introduced would lift restrictions allowing only 100 of those permits to be issued to disabled vets. Avella says veterans had that right for decades.

"There's a general business code of law that gives the right to disabled veterans -- going back to the Civil War -- to get a food vendor permit license," said Avella. "There should be no restriction. Unfortunately, New York City is arbitrarily imposing a fixed number. The only restriction that can be placed is where they would go, Midtown, Manhattan and the World Trade Center."

Those 100 permits are in addition to the 3,000 food vendor permits that the city already allows.


I was wrong about the discounts but that waiting list is quite long so in effect it will speed up the process.

This one annoys me. How can the whole wheat cost any more than regular? If anything, you'd think it would be cheaper as they have to process it less. I would typically follow the sales, and stock up when they dropped it to $1/lb (regular price for junk pasta). Then they stopped having sales, but stop and shop started carrying their own brand, regular price $1.25/lb, so not bad.

Yup, I do that - but the fact remains if someone off the street walks in to buy food this is what they're subjected to.

I believe the whole wheat is more expensive because of the shorter shelf life. Brown rice/flour goes rancid after a time so there is an added expense to that.

When I worked on the east side of Detroit I became alarmed at the lack of availability of fresh fruit and vegatables. It was easier to get junk food from the party stores because they were the only stores that remained despite the frequent robberies. Detroit does not have a major food store in the city. Think of all the people who do not have bikes or realiable public transportation to go to the areas that provide fresh fruit and vegatables. In terms of money, it is more expensive to buy healthy food. In terms of your health it is more expensive to continue to buy the food that is so avaliable in the neighborhood.
As a vegan that rides daily I go to the places where I can buy the kinds of food that is most supportive of my health. I am concerned about the people who can not do the things I do.


Gas, the price of a can of beans.