Can't we all just... get along?

Not until this issue is settled once and for all with an illegal and dangerous street race.

http://www.geocities.com/alicestrong@sbcglobal.net/konaxmas_1198379341.jpg

There's a picture of a bike from the ride. But I wasn't at the ride myself. I had to attend a strategy meeting at the Bike Oven for Elite Core only. We did send a couple of our minions over to ride in our stead...

OK. I maybe exaggerate just a little. Maybe it wasn't really a meeting. It might have been a little party with tamales... maybe a couple people left to do the ride and came back later..:p:D ;)

You cannot possibly be as dumb as the above makes you seem, and I mean that sincerely. You're capable of comprehending what you read; you're just not doing it for some reason. Where on earth did you get the idea that we advocate requiring people to ride bikes through the festival? You certainly didn't get it from anything I wrote, because I wrote, and we advocate, no such thing.

Our larger point, which was blazingly obvious and which I specifically adumbrated...

Um...this dumb, non thinking woman would like know where in your original post (inviting people to join on this renegade ride) is it blazingly obvious, Placid? And if you want your point to be taken seriously, why not present it without it being an adumbrated (insinuated, hinted at) poke in the ribs to anyone on here who dare disagrees with your views, type of tactics, etc. (go read LCI Brian's comments to me below. His comments I take seriously because he isn't angry and so darn sure he's right like you normally present yourself...at least on the internet). And the thing that comes out in your posts (to me) is that somehow people don't have a right to drive unless cyclists have the right at all times to be right there with them. What's next? The parades? Are you going to plan a renegade uprising for cyclists to ride through the floats at the January Doo Dah parade? Unless you live your life never driving an automobile, please try not to make every situation a stand for cyclists' rights (like this one, that I again will state, IMO, is just plain silly - It's a LIGHT FESTIVAL, and Griffith Park and the DWP can get permits legally and close that road for a mile to put it on as they see fit - which is by car and pedestrians, who may choose to walk along side the car exhaust if they want to just as we as cyclists may choose to ride our bikes among car exhaust when we ride out on city streets, and by bike only on one evening.)

And again, in your recent long post, you make an egregious assumption: that people can just go out in wheelchairs, strollers, etc. any old time they please. There are people, PC, who are too ill to go out in the cold. And yes, I do have genuine concern as I know two such people well, both with advanced stages of cancer, and both would have only been able to view the festival by car. Also, have you ever thought that maybe folks don't want to go through the festival by foot or bike? How about that? How about the idea that people just want convenience? But if you disagree so strongly with that, why don't you petition Griffith Park and the DWP to make it a "walking only" festival? No cars and no bikes. Then the pedestrians don't have to walk on that crappy sand path (where they can twist an ankle - aren't you concerned about them?). Instead, they (and you can clearly be one of them, PC) can walk down the smooth pavement and enjoy the festival that way. In fact, I think that's the best of all worlds and I'd sign a petition for that. Walking only, except on certain evenings, a small tour bus could drive through and carry those who can't walk or be out in the cold for long. No gridlock, exhaust fumes or really any risk of injury (other than a minor risk of someone just tripping over his/her own two feet).

And last but not least, when it comes to safety, not everyone is as skilled as you must be on a bike or behind the wheel of a car. A car moving 10 mph hour with lights everywhere could not see a cyclist and strike him/her (you were just there, no? Did you actually enjoy the festival? Did you even look at the lights?) Generally, that kind of collision at any speed can cause damage or injury. And the police, DWP, City, etc. probably want to avoid that. They don't want to get sued, so they try to keep cyclists out when the cars are there. It’s less to worry about – cars in the road and pedestrians on the paths. Those who ride bikes and don’t want to be in a car can walk with the pedestrians. Makes sense to me and, IMO, I don't see an issue with it. But I'll gladly sign a petition to a) make it a walking only festival or b) request more evenings for cyclists (say, three/four evenings? Unless you know 1,000 of cyclists who are just dying to ride through the festival, in which case you could ask for more evenings. You might even get an amazing career out of it by becoming the event coordinator for Griffith Park). Otherwise, I'm content to either go through the festival in a car or walk it - or go the evening the cyclists are allowed through but cars aren't.


Now, to you, Placid, I say - insult me all you want if it makes you feel good (notice, I've not cut and pasted all of your insults and given "comebacks." It isn't worth it, it isn't my style, and it's silly - a word I keep using as I think it is apropos to this whole discussion, quite honestly) I do think you and I are years apart, and if you don't know what I'm implying, oh well. I'm not saying I'm smarter or better than you or anyone else, nor do I think that. But I do have strong opinions, just as you do. And when you mentioned on here in your original post what you were planning to do (inviting some while teasing those of us who dare might not agree), you had to know that someone may have already done it and may not think it such a good idea. However, the irony was lost on you that I, Merider, the dreaded one who...gasp...won't ride with MR due to the drinking and used "true roadie" in one context that then got blown up and used in every other context, actually did exactly what you did two years prior to you doing it. The difference, and I will explain it again to you, is that the group I was with did discern that it wasn't worth it (you may interpret that we somehow did it wrong, but that is your opinion only and not reality – and, oh yeah, if this isn’t a political stand of some sort, what was it you deemed that we didn’t know how to do and could learn from you?). Whether you think we were right or not to follow the law by getting off of our bikes, and whether or not you think the law is phony, our choice two years ago and my experience of that evening and subsequent opinion about it is a very valid POV – unless you feel no one but you has a valid POV, PC. I'm not dumb nor am I not thinking when I state my opinion that riding a bike through the gridlock at the Griffith Park Light Festival is not a way to enjoy the lights at all after I did, in fact, do just that. It is also, in my opinion, after having done it, not a safe way to view the lights - assuming that is what one goes there to do.

As for Mt. Hollywood, you bite your tongue. I pray they never open it to motorists. That is one of the few canyons left in this city where cyclists can ride up to an observatory without fear of someone possibly hitting and killing them. Cars would also ruin the beauty of the night ride up that canyon as there would be too many headlights blocking out the sky. Have you ever been up it, Placid? Why don't you go ride it and enjoy! Other than when there is a threat of fire, I doubt anyone will try to stop you from going up it. :)

http://www.geocities.com/alicestrong@sbcglobal.net/konaxmas_1198379341.jpg

OK, this is a good start, and I like what's being shown here, but I need more. If I'm going to be charmed and inspired, I need to see the moving parade of lights in all it's spectacular glory. No video? C'mon, this is Hollywood. Everyone owns a video camera and editing software in Hollywood. Or knows someone who does.

Seriously, y'all should start a tradition of a lit bike parade in the same spirit of the recent Pasadena ride. That would inspire and impress me far more than riding through the GP festival of lights.

Not until this issue is settled once and for all with an illegal and dangerous street race.

At dawn? After a night of cruising the streets while classic rock and roll is played over the radio by Wolfman Jack?

I like the bit about how wonderful the light rail lines are, considering last year they tore one up and replaced it with a BRT that has higher operating costs, lower capacity, and as designed is incredibly dangerous.

merider1, let me get this straight: you are telling me, in all seriousness, that the F.O.L. should be a car-centric event because 1) some people find it inconvenient to propel themselves through physical space using their feet and 2) old and sick people might get cold? The first reason is so laughable as to refute itself with no further input from me, and the second can be addressed by another miracle of modern science called warm clothing*. I really don't think that either one of them is sufficient to justify the ludicrous parody of a festival that is the DWP's Festival of Lights in its current form.

As to the "maturity" bit, I'm afraid you're going to have to come up with another angle. I understand perfectly well what you're trying to imply, but maturity is as maturity does, kid. Frankly, a woman in her late thirties whose every other post on an Internet bicycle forum is a crude sexual double entendre has little room to impugn the maturity of anybody else on that forum. If you think I'm getting too personal here, well, you're the one who insisted on dragging personal maturity into a discussion about bicycles and politics. Take it like the adult you so loudly insist that you are, OK?

I enjoyed the show just fine, thanks for asking. I've always liked Christmas lights. Some of it was pretty tacky, if truth be told, but there's definitely potential there. Kind of like Bike Forums Southern California. Or Southern California itself, for that matter.

*Lest anybody think I'm being too flip about this, I'm sure that the DWP/Griffith Park could come up with a way to accommodate people whose illnesses are so advanced as to require more protection from the cold than bundling up can provide, while still transforming a wasteful, polluting, and socially isolating "festival" into something more deserving of the name.

At dawn? After a night of cruising the streets while classic rock and roll is played over the radio by Wolfman Jack?

We hipsters in our early twenties prefer iPods with extended mixes of dissonant experimental German electropunk music, but yeah.

Seriously, y'all should start a tradition of a lit bike parade in the same spirit of the recent Pasadena ride. That would inspire and impress me far more than riding through the GP festival of lights.

The All-City Toy Ride was sort of like that. However, I am intrigued by your idea and wish to subscribe to your newsletter, blog, or vanity recording label.

*Lest anybody think I'm being too flip about this

you are being too flip about this... WE WANT MORE PHOTOS!!!

As to the "maturity" bit, I'm afraid you're going to have to come up with another angle. I understand perfectly well what you're trying to imply, but maturity is as maturity does, kid. Frankly, a woman in her late thirties whose every other post on an Internet bicycle forum is a crude sexual double entendre has little room to impugn the maturity of anybody else on that forum. If you think I'm getting too personal here, well, you're the one who insisted on dragging personal maturity into a discussion about bicycles and politics. Take it like the adult you so loudly insist that you are, OK?

.

Placid, I don't need to come up with another angle. Your statement above illustrates your maturity level perfectly. What? Because you don't like my views, you have to take a shot at me and use, of all things, my sense of humor? First you imply I'm dumb and don't think, and now I'm juvenile? You're obviously running out of steam and your tactic of insulting me repeatedly isn't going to make your point about crashing the light festival anymore valid. My sense of humor on this internet forum says nothing about my maturity level in the real world where I function just fine, thank you. And as for personal - yes, you are purposely, in anger and frustration, trying to insult a person you've never met in a manner you hope will have an effect. You're taking a shot below the belt (and I'd love to smut that on up, but I suppose this one time, I'll control myself). It doesn’t' work with me and I'm not going to get angry and hysterical and start attacking you back (which is what you are hoping for, ultimately, as it will distract from my POV and you can then claim victory in your mind, I suppose). I was on the debate team in college. I don’t always fall for such tactics…unless I’ve been drinking. :p

Instead, I want to propose something to you.

How about in lieu of you having gone over with your 30 friends and ridden in the gridlock the other night at Griffith Park and then so gallantly defending your actions on here (while repeatedly insulting me, who merely disagrees), you had instead made a real effort to get as many of your fellow cyclists out the night of December 19th? You know, the night they opened the festival to bikes and pedestrians only and not to cars? The night Alicestrong advertised on here in an attempt to get folks out there? How amazing it would have been if you had been the leader of a grass roots effort to gather over 1,000 cyclists to ride through the festival with all of the pedestrians out walking along side the bikes, cheering all of you. You could have taken photos, contacted the LA Times and used them to push your agenda (which I've never said is a bad one, by the way, I'm just puzzled as why you are taking on something as small potatoes as a light festival at Griffith Park that is all but a mile long). You could have used that evening as a platform and positive podium to push forward the idea that the festival can be better enjoyed by bike or foot. You could have even contacted Bicycling Magazine and submitted your photos to them along with a well written article (they have, in fact, featured at least two articles on Critical Mass - I know as I have read both articles and both flattered the cause. And although this isn't CM, it is pushing for cyclicts' rights and the use of bikes as a better alternative to cars. I suspect BM would have been all over that.). You could have called the local radio stations (Star 98.7 is located in Glendale - two miles from Griffith Park), invited them out to cover the event and really stated your case. You could have contacted local television stations and asked them to send a camera. I suspect they would have, given that this is LA and they will report on anything to fill up their news segments (and that’s a crack at the quality of our news media and not a statement on the bikes only evening at the Light Festival). You could have done so much more that evening in making the statement you keep making on here that the festival could be better enjoyed by bike and foot. It could have been amazing.

Instead, you come on this forum, cordially invite those (who agree with you) to come out and ride through the gridlock, get angry at me, the one member on here who has done what you did and has an opposing view, put down the festival and how it’s currently organized (I don't buy for one minute that you give one iota about those lights), insult me repeatedly because I just won't back down, agree with you or back off from my opinion - which, again and again and again, I have to repeat myself - is just as valid as yours.

Difference between you and me? I don't need to insult you to state my opinion or have a discussion on this topic. My insinuating that you aren't mature and are young in your thinking isn't an insult or a low blow. Your own behavior on here and obvious inability to see that you may, in fact, be able to affect positive changes, not only with the Light Festival, but in the world of cycling advocacy as a whole, by using a myriad of tactics and not just one, tired, confrontational tactic over and over and over again – belies your wisdom and any maturity you may possess…kid. ;)

Instead of spending your time on here arguing with this dumb, non-thinking, sexually inappropriate, immature woman in her late thirties, why don't you spend that energy figuring out other more effective ways to make a true, substantive difference in how cyclists are viewed, treated and given equal rights? Oh, yeah, and changing the Light Festival to reflect the image of what you think it should be and desire it to be. :)

OK, this is a good start, and I like what's being shown here, but I need more. If I'm going to be charmed and inspired, I need to see the moving parade of lights in all it's spectacular glory. No video? C'mon, this is Hollywood. Everyone owns a video camera and editing software in Hollywood. Or knows someone who does.

Seriously, y'all should start a tradition of a lit bike parade in the same spirit of the recent Pasadena ride. That would inspire and impress me far more than riding through the GP festival of lights.

Who is this "y'all" of whom you speak? Hmmmm? ;) YOU all? Which Pasadena ride?

I LOVE this lit bike parade idea by the way.

I don't think that there were lots of photos at this particular event. There is a set here...

http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/PastTripDetail.asp?id=15769&leadername=Rand+Om&area=1

Mary Mary quite contrary...how does your garden up north grow? I thought they had the internets , too.

If I'd known you had such big plans for the Festival of Lights ride that you offered to lead we could have maybe put our heads together and come up with something...;)

Communication is key!!!

The All-City Toy Ride was sort of like that. However, I am intrigued by your idea and wish to subscribe to your newsletter, blog, or vanity recording label.

I am inspired by your intrigue. And as far as subscribing to anything relative to me personally, I don't yet have anything concrete. However, you can become a client of mine. I work within the world of stand-up comedy, servicing the video and editing needs of LA's top rising comedians. How would you best describe your act: prop comedian, or topical humorist?

Mary Mary quite contrary...how does your garden up north grow? I thought they had the internets , too.

If I'd known you had such big plans for the Festival of Lights ride that you offered to lead we could have maybe put our heads together and come up with something...;)

Communication is key!!!

You know, Alice, having this discussion with Placid gave me the idea. I didn't even think of it until this morning when responding to him. But really, I do think it's a great idea. Not sure I want to lead it, but I don't feel as passionately about the light festival and the cars going through that section as Placid does. I think he'd be the far better leader. Or you, if you were so inclined. But I'd come join next year. There - said it publicly, so I'm bound. I'll pull out the Red Baron (my mtn bike), decorate it and ride through the lights with others on the evening bikes are allowed but cars are not. :)

Who is this "y'all" of whom you speak? Hmmmm? ;) YOU all? Which Pasadena ride?

I LOVE this lit bike parade idea by the way.

I don't think that there were lots of photos at this particular event. There is a set here...

http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/PastTripDetail.asp?id=15769&leadername=Rand+Om&area=1

I was referencing the All City Toy Ride, and the MR gang. That lit bike parade would be killer. A grand unifying ride and spectacle for sure. The only thing that gave me pause about the idea is safely wiring up any bicycle with lights. Last thing you want is a series of endovers from parade participants who carelessly strung their bikes with wiring causing it to suddenly wrap in the fork and over they go. One second they're doing the one handed parade wave, the next they're staring up at the stars in the sky or in their heads. Thanks for the pics link.

Placid, I don't need to come up with another angle. Your statement above illustrates your maturity level perfectly. What? Because you don't like my views, you have to take a shot at me and use, of all things, my sense of humor? First you imply I'm dumb and don't think, and now I'm juvenile? You're obviously running out of steam and your tactic of insulting me repeatedly isn't going to make your point about crashing the light festival anymore valid. My sense of humor on this internet forum says nothing about my maturity level in the real world where I function just fine, thank you. And as for personal - yes, you are purposely, in anger and frustration, trying to insult a person you've never met in a manner you hope will have an effect. You're taking a shot below the belt (and I'd love to smut that on up, but I suppose this one time, I'll control myself). It doesn’t' work with me and I'm not going to get angry and hysterical and start attacking you back (which is what you are hoping for, ultimately, as it will distract from my POV and you can then claim victory in your mind, I suppose). I was on the debate team in college. I don’t always fall for such tactics…unless I’ve been drinking. :p

Instead, I want to propose something to you.

How about in lieu of you having gone over with your 30 friends and ridden in the gridlock the other night at Griffith Park and then so gallantly defending your actions on here (while repeatedly insulting me, who merely disagrees), you had instead made a real effort to get as many of your fellow cyclists out the night of December 19th? You know, the night they opened the festival to bikes and pedestrians only and not to cars? The night Alicestrong advertised on here in an attempt to get folks out there? How amazing it would have been if you had been the leader of a grass roots effort to gather over 1,000 cyclists to ride through the festival with all of the pedestrians out walking along side the bikes, cheering all of you. You could have taken photos, contacted the LA Times and used them to push your agenda (which I've never said is a bad one, by the way, I'm just puzzled as why you are taking on something as small potatoes as a light festival at Griffith Park that is all but a mile long). You could have used that evening as a platform and positive podium to push forward the idea that the festival can be better enjoyed by bike or foot. You could have even contacted Bicycling Magazine and submitted your photos to them along with a well written article (they have, in fact, featured at least two articles on Critical Mass - I know as I have read both articles and both flattered the cause. And although this isn't CM, it is pushing for cyclicts' rights and the use of bikes as a better alternative to cars. I suspect BM would have been all over that.). You could have called the local radio stations (Star 98.7 is located in Glendale - two miles from Griffith Park), invited them out to cover the event and really stated your case. You could have contacted local television stations and asked them to send a camera. I suspect they would have, given that this is LA and they will report on anything to fill up their news segments (and that’s a crack at the quality of our news media and not a statement on the bikes only evening at the Light Festival). You could done so much more that evening in making the statement you keep making on here that the festival could be better enjoyed by bike and foot. It could have been amazing.

Instead, you come on this forum, cordially invite those (who agree with you) to come out and ride through the gridlock, get angry at me, the one member on here who has done what you did and has an opposing view, put down the festival and how it’s currently organized (I don't buy for one minute that you give one iota about those lights), insult me repeatedly because I just won't back down, agree with you or back off from my opinion - which, again and again and again, I have to repeat myself - is just as valid as yours.

Difference between you and me? I don't need to insult you to state my opinion or have a discussion on this topic. My insinuating that you aren't mature and are young in your thinking isn't an insult or a low blow. Your own behavior on here and obvious inability to see that you may, in fact, be able to affect positive changes, not only with the Light Festival, but in the world of cycling advocacy as a whole, by using a myriad of tactics and not just one, tired, confrontational tactic over and over and over again – belies your wisdom and any maturity you may possess…kid. ;)

Instead of spending your time on here arguing with this dumb, non-thinking, sexually inappropriate, immature woman in her late thirties, why don't you spend that energy figuring out other more effective ways to make a true, substantive difference in how cyclists are viewed, treated and given equal rights? Oh, yeah, and changing the Light Festival to reflect the image of what you think it should be and desire it to be. :)

She's good. She's real good. Wave after wave of boom. ...chicka bow bow...

Refueling?
http://www.outdoorsclub.org/Pasttrip/Pictures/1%20032_BDD0.jpg

She's good. She's real good. Wave after wave of boom. ...chicka bow bow...


What did I boom chica bow bow? And exactly what is boom chica bow bow? I know what bow chica bow wow is, but not boom chica bow bow. :rolleyes::p

We hipsters in our early twenties prefer iPods with extended mixes of dissonant experimental German electropunk music, but yeah.

Ah, I see. But is it stolen music? I prefer paying artists for their work and craft. So no illegally downloaded music from pirate share sites for me.
A.) all ipods have artist friendly music - I'm in.
B.) ipods containing anti-artist (stolen) music - I'm out.

That's from Sins and Sprockets...a notorious bar crawl ride...very evil. They wear leather and stuff...;)

It was on the same night, so some of the riders did both rides.

I told you there weren't too many pictures.

What did I boom chica bow bow? And exactly what is boom chica bow bow? I know what bow chica bow wow* is, but not boom chica bow bow. :rolleyes::p

I'm sorry for the confusion. Boom chica bow bow is from the 1 count in a four count bar of music, with the one and three getting the boom instead of the bow. Like a bass drum. Just more punch. And it fit the last word in the previous text, while continuing with the red herring charge of you using "crude sexual double entendre."

*bow chica bow bow is a written manner of suggesting the oft mocked generic bedroom soul/funk background music from 70's porn.

*bow chica bow bow is a written manner of suggesting the oft mocked generic bedroom soul/funk background music from 70's porn.

BF is so educational. I always wondered what that meant. Now I know. Thanks to this Forum. That and OCP...

I used to live in Topanga, by the way. When there used to be hippies there...;)

BF is so educational. I always wondered what that meant. Now I know. Thanks to this Forum. That and OCP...

I used to live in Topanga, by the way. When there used to be hippies there...;)

Yeah, they'd play that music over scenes with hippies doing the nasty all 70's hairy style. Ah, ew.

They still have hippies up here. But they're old hippies, so they don't look like hippies so much as they just look old.

I'm sorry for the confusion. Boom chica bow bow is from the 1 count in a four count bar of music, with the one and three getting the boom instead of the bow. Like a bass drum. Just more punch. And it fit the last word in the previous text, while continuing with the red herring charge of you using "crude sexual double entendre."

*bow chica bow bow is a written manner of suggesting the oft mocked generic bedroom soul/funk background music from 70's porn.

Wow. All this time I thought it was bow chica bow wow. :p Alice is right...I learn something new here every day. :D

Wow. All this time I thought it was bow chica bow wow. :p Alice is right...I learn something new here every day. :D

bow chica bow bow is perfectly acceptable, as it suggests the nasty is well under way and ongoing. Unending. Perpetual. Boom chica bow bow is more start and stop. You decide which best suits the mood.

bow chica bow bow is perfectly acceptable, as it suggests the nasty is well under way and ongoing. Unending. Perpetual. Boom chica bow bow is more start and stop. You decide which best suits the mood.

hmmm...I think I prefer the continued, unending nasty, but it's good to know that I have an option for starting all over again after stopping.

hmmm...I think I prefer the continued, unending nasty, but it's good to know that I have an option for starting all over again after stopping.

You're not exactly helping with the negative image of you using "crude sexual double entendre."

You're not exactly helping with the negative image of you using "crude sexual double entendre."

I have no desire to help with the negative image of my using crude sexual double entendre. And you'd better not use quotation marks or Placid will get you for that, too.

Besides, one man's crude sexual double entendre is another man's poetry to his ears. I have a wide range audience of both detractors and admirers and I really can only please one group at a time. :D

I have no desire to help with the negative image of my using crude sexual double entendre. And you'd better not use quotation marks or Placid will get you for that, too.

Besides, one man's crude sexual double entendre is another man's poetry to his ears. I have a wide range audience of both detractors and admirers and I really can only please one group at a time. :D

:roflmao::roflmao:

Difference between you and me? I don't need to insult you to state my opinion or have a discussion on this topic. My insinuating that you aren't mature and are young in your thinking isn't an insult or a low blow.

Delicious.

Delicious.

And delightful. You forgot delightful. :)

And delightful. You forgot delightful. :)

Delicious, delightful, decadent.

Merry Christmas, you. :)

Speaking of Boom...

Hi Sweetie...

Delicious, delightful, decadent.

Merry Christmas, you. :)

Merry Christmas to you too, Allez. I hope you have a good one. :)

Thanks, ME.

You and I have locked horns in the past, but that was due to my own ignorance, and I take full responsibility for it. In the the spirit of the season, I offer my apology.

Thanks, ME.

You and I have locked horns in the past, but that was due to my own ignorance, and I take full responsibility for it. In the the spirit of the season, I offer my apology.

Mary it's a trick!!

Just kidding both yous...



But weren't we 'spose to stop fighting after the New Year??:D

No, it's not a trick.

merider1 and I may disagree on all sorts of stuff, but that doesn't excuse poor behavior on my part. We are all in this together.

Thanks, ME.

You and I have locked horns in the past, but that was due to my own ignorance, and I take full responsibility for it. In the the spirit of the season, I offer my apology.
Likewise, I offer my apology for being a PITA to you. No trick here, either. Have a great evening and Christmas eve dinner. :)

Placid, I don't need to come up with another angle. Your statement above illustrates your maturity level perfectly. What? Because you don't like my views, you have to take a shot at me and use, of all things, my sense of humor?

On the contrary. Like I said, you brought maturity into it. Passive-aggressive tactics sometimes backfire.

First you imply I'm dumb and don't think,

No; I stated unambiguously that you are not dumb but that you aren't thinking. In this case, you're not bothering even to consider ways in which an absurdly wasteful, polluting, and anti-social event might be made otherwise without excluding the elderly, young, and handicapped; instead, you are using them as a reason to avoid thinking about changing it.

I gave it some thought and I told you what my solutions would be to that problem. What do you think about those solutions? Would they work? Have you thought about them at all? How about heated electric trams for the .0001% of the population whose needs can't be met with strollers, wheelchairs, EPAMDs, and warm clothing? Might those things make it possible to turn a dirty, socially alienating event into a clean one where people can be together and meet old friends and make new ones? Or do you seriously advocate a collective throwing up of hands on the issue because of one small logistical hitch?

(As for the other "problem," it truly isn't worth taking seriously. I can think of no compelling reason to structure a public event with a winter holiday theme around the desires of a handful of able-bodied adults who absolutely refuse to walk a single mile in chilly weather at a leisurely pace, can you?)

and now I'm juvenile?

If the crude sexual double entendre fits...

My sense of humor on this internet forum says nothing about my maturity level in the real world where I function just fine, thank you.

Ah...so you're saying that it's difficult or impossible to determine a person's level of maturity from the way that he or she behaves on the Internet? Good point. From now on, I'll discount any guesses that I see people make about other people's real lives based on what they read online.

And as for personal - yes, you are purposely, in anger and frustration, trying to insult a person you've never met in a manner you hope will have an effect.

That's a bit melodramatic, don't you think? All I did was point out something that you do, constantly, on a public forum. It's not an insult coming from me, anyway: I like crude sexual double entendre, and practice it myself from time to time (albeit not as often as I did in my twenties, when I was known to spurt hot, juicy banter on to anything that moved). But let's be honest: it's massively immature behavior, and the fact that we are doing it on computers and not on a street corner doesn't make it any less so.

Would it be mean for me to point out again that you wanted to talk about maturity in this discussion about bicycles and politics?

You're taking a shot below the belt (and I'd love to smut that on up, but I suppose this one time, I'll control myself). It doesn’t' work with me and I'm not going to get angry and hysterical and start attacking you back (which is what you are hoping for, ultimately, as it will distract from my POV and you can then claim victory in your mind, I suppose).

And how would that have helped my cause? I mainly wanted to put that distracting side issue to bed, once and for all. Nobody here is an exemplar of personal maturity, least of all you. It's not that you're incapable of criticizing my tactics on the merits, because you've been doing that all along. So why gild the lily? As you surely now understand, it didn't help advance your argument at all and it may even have undermined it a little bit.

Instead, I want to propose something to you.

How about in lieu of you having gone over with your 30 friends and ridden in the gridlock the other night at Griffith Park and then so gallantly defending your actions on here (while repeatedly insulting me, who merely disagrees), you had instead made a real effort to get as many of your fellow cyclists out the night of December 19th?

Considered beforehand, and rejected (among other things, it would have been preaching to the choir). We wanted to reach a different audience this time. We did, this time.

Instead, you come on this forum, cordially invite those (who agree with you) to come out and ride through the gridlock, get angry at me,

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a verbal parry is a sign of anger. At the risk of being repetitive, you're being awfully melodramatic. You made an assertion about our relative levels of personal maturity, I rebutted it. It happens. Get used to it.

the one member on here who has done what you did and has an opposing view, put down the festival and how it’s currently organized (I don't buy for one minute that you give one iota about those lights),[/QUOTA]

I never claimed to be passionate about those lights, so whether you buy or do not buy a claim that I never advanced is not terribly important to me. I did enjoy them, though, especially those little light tunnels.

[QUOTE=merider1;5862943]insult me repeatedly

I didn't even insult you once. I pointed out something immature that you do in a public forum, in response to your having questioned my maturity. If you don't want to discuss your maturity, don't bring up the maturity of others--especially in a discussion where the subject of anybody's personal maturity is utterly immaterial.

because I just won't back down, agree with you or back off from my opinion - which, again and again and again, I have to repeat myself - is just as valid as yours.

You don't even have to repeat that once. I never said that yours was less valid. I think it's wrong, but then I would think that, wouldn't I? You've given a number of reasons why you think mine is wrong. Does that mean that you think it's invalid?

Difference between you and me? I don't need to insult you to state my opinion or have a discussion on this topic.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Your bringing up what you imagined to be my age or level of maturity was pretty clearly a tactic, and the passive-aggressive nature of the tactic doesn't make it any less a tactic. For you to pretend otherwise, having been called on it, is just disingenuous.

My insinuating that you aren't mature and are young in your thinking isn't an insult or a low blow. Your own behavior on here and obvious inability to see that you may, in fact, be able to affect positive changes, not only with the Light Festival, but in the world of cycling advocacy as a whole, by using a myriad of tactics

Why, if I didn't know better I would think that you were making unwarranted assumptions about my behavior in real life based on my Internet posts. A myriad of tactics, eh? I don't recall seeing you at any of the LABAC or City Council or neighborhood council meetings I've attended this year, or at City Hall on Bike To Work Day, or...

Maybe it's just my memory failing me. You're the blond one, right?

and not just one, tired, confrontational tactic

Whether the tactic of riding lit-up bicycles through the traffic at the F.O.L. is tired is a matter of opinion, but I assure you there was nothing confrontational about it.

over and over and over again – belies your wisdom and any maturity you may possess…kid. ;)

Yes, well...somebody's wisdom and maturity is being belied here, but I honestly don't think it's mine.

I doubt anyone but you two are still reading these and trust me, if you haven't convinced the other of your point of view by now, it isn't going to happen. Might I suggest something more productive??

^ William Jennings Bryan vs. Clarence Darrow, the sequel.

So why gild the lily?

I was going to give you two points for using this phrase. Ordinarily I'd give just one point, but because this is a bike forum where obscure literary phrases aren't often, if ever used, I decided to give you two. However, because that phrase can also be interpreted as a euphemism for the crude sexual double entendre "choking the chicken," I have to deduct one point.

I doubt anyone but you two are still reading these and trust me, if you haven't convinced the other of your point of view by now, it isn't going to happen. Might I suggest something more productive??

Yes, you are correct, Jim. I just love to debate and I do realize that I will convince him of nothing. I have one more thing to say and I'll be done. ;)

On the contrary. Like I said, you brought maturity into it. Passive-aggressive tactics sometimes backfire.



Placid, Jim is correct. You and I are just not going to see eye to eye (and after reading your argument in your latest post, I'm too tired tonight to answer back). So, as a quick recap - in lieu of arguing, insulting and wasting time with a dumb, non-thinking, sexually inappropriate, immature, passive aggressive, melodramatic (putting hand to forehead and almost fainting) woman in her late thirties, why don't you go back and read my posts again, particularly my last one (without dissecting it). There are several suggestions in there that you've misunderstood or outright ignored and might want to reconsider (now you can add self-centered to the list of labels you've given me).

In the meantime, I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Perhaps we can take this argument back up again next December. That should give you 12 long months to plan your next great strategy on how to penetrate and perfect the light festival to the betterment of cyclists worldwide! :)

I doubt anyone but you two are still reading these and trust me, if you haven't convinced the other of your point of view by now, it isn't going to happen. Might I suggest something more productive??

I know that I read everything... and realized that I lost brain cells in the process.

However, MC & HNY to all...

No crown of thorns, no cross of gold!

I read your suggestions. I just wasn't into them. You can do them, if they're that exciting to you.

Happy LOLidays, and I wish you a safe and prosperous new year of flirting with paunchy old married guys on the Net.

And now, a picture of a grown man on a bicycle with Christmas lights wrapped around his neck.

http://midnightridazz.com/images/gallery/large/DSC_0811_1198355978.JPG

I am inspired by your intrigue. And as far as subscribing to anything relative to me personally, I don't yet have anything concrete. However, you can become a client of mine. I work within the world of stand-up comedy, servicing the video and editing needs of LA's top rising comedians. How would you best describe your act: prop comedian, or topical humorist?

I'm a prop comic, with Internet drama queens serving as the props.

I'm a prop comic, with Internet drama queens serving as the props.


You forgot to put "I'm a mature prop comic, with Internet drama queens serving as the props."

:D