KiddSisko
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VanceMac
Call me cynical, but what I see there: "Let's get those annoying bikes off our roads, so we can enjoy our god-given right to talking on our cell phones while driving."
ronjon10
Call me cynical
Cynical
Cynical
alicestrong
Beat me to it...foiled at every turn I am...
spingineer
cynic
cruiserhead
that's great news! I'm glad there is some kind of plan for more paths. I'm all for it, people in Socal drive like sociopaths.
The one problem I see w/ the Metrorail is that bikes are not allowed during busy times. I see their point, as you are taking space w/ the bike but is there a way to take your bike no matter what time it happens to be? Do they have racks on the Metro now or ??
The one problem I see w/ the Metrorail is that bikes are not allowed during busy times. I see their point, as you are taking space w/ the bike but is there a way to take your bike no matter what time it happens to be? Do they have racks on the Metro now or ??
Indolent58
Call me cynical, but what I see there: "Let's get those annoying bikes off our roads, so we can enjoy our god-given right to talking on our cell phones while driving."
Yeah! But at least cyclists will be assured of their God given right to ride on MUPs at 23mph with iPod headphones stuffed in their ears.
Fair is fair.
Yeah! But at least cyclists will be assured of their God given right to ride on MUPs at 23mph with iPod headphones stuffed in their ears.
Fair is fair.
alicestrong
that's great news! I'm glad there is some kind of plan for more paths. I'm all for it, people in Socal drive like sociopaths.
The one problem I see w/ the Metrorail is that bikes are not allowed during busy times. I see their point, as you are taking space w/ the bike but is there a way to take your bike no matter what time it happens to be? Do they have racks on the Metro now or ??
I'll bet those bans on regular bikes during rush hour will be lifted eventually. I hope so.
Folding bikes are allowed any time. They're cute. There are racks for bikes on all the buses.
The one problem I see w/ the Metrorail is that bikes are not allowed during busy times. I see their point, as you are taking space w/ the bike but is there a way to take your bike no matter what time it happens to be? Do they have racks on the Metro now or ??
I'll bet those bans on regular bikes during rush hour will be lifted eventually. I hope so.
Folding bikes are allowed any time. They're cute. There are racks for bikes on all the buses.
thomson
The CalTrain between San Jose and San Francisco has one car dedicated to bicycles. There are no seats on the bottom level. The bikes lean against each wall, sometimes as many as 4 or 5 deep. I think it works real well and maybe our subways/trains would adopt something like that if bike usage increased.
I used to take Metrolink with my bike and I did hear people complain about dodging all the bikes near the exit and their concern of getting grease on their clothes. The dedicated car would take care of this.
When you are on the platform, it can sometimes be tricky to guess which car you should board where there is adequate space for your bike. With the dedicated car always in the same position (on the CalTrain, it is always the northernmost car), the bikes know where to board.
As for the dedicated bike paths, I am in favor of these. If a particular path doesn't work for a bicyclist, they can always ride on the street as they do today. Local municipalities cannot prevent a bicycle on a public street.
I used to take Metrolink with my bike and I did hear people complain about dodging all the bikes near the exit and their concern of getting grease on their clothes. The dedicated car would take care of this.
When you are on the platform, it can sometimes be tricky to guess which car you should board where there is adequate space for your bike. With the dedicated car always in the same position (on the CalTrain, it is always the northernmost car), the bikes know where to board.
As for the dedicated bike paths, I am in favor of these. If a particular path doesn't work for a bicyclist, they can always ride on the street as they do today. Local municipalities cannot prevent a bicycle on a public street.
merider1
Call me cynical, but what I see there: "Let's get those annoying bikes off our roads, so we can enjoy our god-given right to talking on our cell phones while driving."
Vanceypoo, they (we) are going to talk on their (our) cell phones until July 2008 anyway. Then they (we) will talk into their (our) "hands free" devices. I think a safe bike path away from all the talking and driving would be just great.
However, I AM cynical (no one need call me it) that it will ever come to fruition.
Vanceypoo, they (we) are going to talk on their (our) cell phones until July 2008 anyway. Then they (we) will talk into their (our) "hands free" devices. I think a safe bike path away from all the talking and driving would be just great.
However, I AM cynical (no one need call me it) that it will ever come to fruition.
alicestrong
Mary do you ride on PCH?
merider1
Mary do you ride on PCH?
I just know there's a catch to this question. :p
Why, yes, Alice, I do at times ride PCH. I've ridden it mostly from Malibu up north which feels far safer (feels is the operative word here). I do not like to ride it anywhere NEAR Santa Monicaish area.
Why do you ask? Hmmmm? ;)
I just know there's a catch to this question. :p
Why, yes, Alice, I do at times ride PCH. I've ridden it mostly from Malibu up north which feels far safer (feels is the operative word here). I do not like to ride it anywhere NEAR Santa Monicaish area.
Why do you ask? Hmmmm? ;)
alicestrong
No catch. I was just curious as I think it's a really scary place to ride, that's all...
Speedee
It is scary... The worst part is between SM and Pepperdine. :fight:
I’m not crazy about it, but I do it every weekend - usually in a group though.
I’m not crazy about it, but I do it every weekend - usually in a group though.
VanceMac
I’m not crazy about it, but I do it every weekend - usually in a group though.
Exactly my thoughts. I won't ride it alone, but our Wed ride usually includes the stretch from Pepperdine to Topanga.
Exactly my thoughts. I won't ride it alone, but our Wed ride usually includes the stretch from Pepperdine to Topanga.
merider1
Yeah, PCH is not my favorite for sure. The view is lovely, but the speeding traffic...not so much.
Speedee
Exactly my thoughts. I won't ride it alone, but our Wed ride usually includes the stretch from Pepperdine to Topanga.
Between Topanga and Temescal, there’s three or four places where the shoulder completely disappears, and you have to take the lane. That's where you really want to be with a pack.
Between Topanga and Temescal, there’s three or four places where the shoulder completely disappears, and you have to take the lane. That's where you really want to be with a pack.
grrlyrida
[QUOTE=merider1;5840999]Vanceypoo, they (we) are going to talk on their (our) cell phones until July 2008 anyway. Then they (we) will talk into their (our) "hands free" devices. I think a safe bike path away from all the talking and driving would be just great.
However, I AM cynical (no one need call me it) that it will ever come to fruition.[/QUOTE
I use to work as a press secretary for one of the councilpersons in city hall and Ed Reyes is not known as a mover and shaker. He's full of crap. He needs to clean up the facilities he has in his district now. I've been riding around Dodger stadium and other parts of his district. The paths he does have are full of trash, human feces and plain ghetto. The parks are unkempt. He needs to stop looking at some pie in the sky bike paths and clean up his district.
However, I AM cynical (no one need call me it) that it will ever come to fruition.[/QUOTE
I use to work as a press secretary for one of the councilpersons in city hall and Ed Reyes is not known as a mover and shaker. He's full of crap. He needs to clean up the facilities he has in his district now. I've been riding around Dodger stadium and other parts of his district. The paths he does have are full of trash, human feces and plain ghetto. The parks are unkempt. He needs to stop looking at some pie in the sky bike paths and clean up his district.
KiddSisko
Not reported in the article, but mentioned in the accompanying TV news clip, the goal is to have a working plan completed by 2009. I'd be curious who all is behind this, providing Ed Reyes with insight and incentive. A genuinely positive and proactive step (for those immediately effected and benefited by bike paths in their communities) would be to follow up with calls, questions and criticisms, plus offer public support in whatever way would be helpful.
I'm not aware of the bike community here in LA being as politically active as the San Fran bike community. The San Fran area bike community, while definitely active, is also known for it's loud, "streety", disruptive tactics that irritate and polarize the majority of car commuters. Attention getting, sure, but not very productive. I certainly wouldn't support or participate in those kind of tactics here in LA. One thing that would be helpful while the LA plan is being hatched, is for the planning office to provide regular updates and progress reports to the bike community through direct communication outlets such as BF. In fact, I'm surprised we had to learn about this plan through my chance stumbling across it while searching for local news items on the rainfall. They should be playing to the LA bike community strengths, part of which is social networking and information sharing services such as BF! Give BF some info and it'll spread fast! We'll probably buy the t-shirts and jerseys too. Social rides, parades, you name it.
I'm not aware of the bike community here in LA being as politically active as the San Fran bike community. The San Fran area bike community, while definitely active, is also known for it's loud, "streety", disruptive tactics that irritate and polarize the majority of car commuters. Attention getting, sure, but not very productive. I certainly wouldn't support or participate in those kind of tactics here in LA. One thing that would be helpful while the LA plan is being hatched, is for the planning office to provide regular updates and progress reports to the bike community through direct communication outlets such as BF. In fact, I'm surprised we had to learn about this plan through my chance stumbling across it while searching for local news items on the rainfall. They should be playing to the LA bike community strengths, part of which is social networking and information sharing services such as BF! Give BF some info and it'll spread fast! We'll probably buy the t-shirts and jerseys too. Social rides, parades, you name it.
Placid Casual
Speaking of politically active (and of "streety" tactics that may irritate certain people--oh nooooooes!!!1!1!1!), you are all cordially invited to join a group of us on Friday night when we adorn our bikes with festive lights and ride through the Festival of Lights at Griffith Park from which we have been foolishly and illegally banned. Meet at the Mulholland Fountain at Riverside Drive and Los Feliz at 7:30, ride at 8:00.
There is a very slight risk of receiving a (totally illegitimate) citation if you come with us. It should be noted that we expect to be riding through total vehicular gridlock the entire time, though, so the chances of park officials pursuing us, even if they wanted to, seem pretty slim. Anyway, we're not planning to make trouble or stop the show--indeed, we'll be contributing to it--so we don't anticipate any major conflict.
I'm told that battery powered colored lights are available at IKEA for cheap.
There is a very slight risk of receiving a (totally illegitimate) citation if you come with us. It should be noted that we expect to be riding through total vehicular gridlock the entire time, though, so the chances of park officials pursuing us, even if they wanted to, seem pretty slim. Anyway, we're not planning to make trouble or stop the show--indeed, we'll be contributing to it--so we don't anticipate any major conflict.
I'm told that battery powered colored lights are available at IKEA for cheap.
thomson
Between Topanga and Temescal, there’s three or four places where the shoulder completely disappears, and you have to take the lane. That's where you really want to be with a pack.
I agree with the Speedster, between Topanga and Temescal is the worst section. A mirror really helps here as you have to go into the traffic lane a lot. I jump on the bike path to go further south no matter how jam packed it is.
I don't mind north (west) of Topanga at all.
I agree with the Speedster, between Topanga and Temescal is the worst section. A mirror really helps here as you have to go into the traffic lane a lot. I jump on the bike path to go further south no matter how jam packed it is.
I don't mind north (west) of Topanga at all.
merider1
There is a very slight risk of receiving a (totally illegitimate) citation if you come with us. It should be noted that we expect to be riding through total vehicular gridlock the entire time, though, so the chances of park officials pursuing us, even if they wanted to, seem pretty slim. Anyway, we're not planning to make trouble or stop the show--indeed, we'll be contributing to it--so we don't anticipate any major conflict.
I'm told that battery powered colored lights are available at IKEA for cheap.
PC, I've already beaten you to this. Yup...I've broken the law. A group of us did this a couple of years ago (2005) and it isn't worth it. It really is dangerous and there is no point to it. The guards/police will ask you to get off the road and walk your bike (especially if there are tons of pedestrians on the sides walking in the dirt). And the motorists will have a hard time seeing you with all the lights and distractions. Bascially, if one were to hit you, I doubt they'd be seen as responsible in the eyes of the law. Good luck!
I'm told that battery powered colored lights are available at IKEA for cheap.
PC, I've already beaten you to this. Yup...I've broken the law. A group of us did this a couple of years ago (2005) and it isn't worth it. It really is dangerous and there is no point to it. The guards/police will ask you to get off the road and walk your bike (especially if there are tons of pedestrians on the sides walking in the dirt). And the motorists will have a hard time seeing you with all the lights and distractions. Bascially, if one were to hit you, I doubt they'd be seen as responsible in the eyes of the law. Good luck!
merider1
[QUOTE=merider1;5840999]
I use to work as a press secretary for one of the councilpersons in city hall and Ed Reyes is not known as a mover and shaker. He's full of crap. He needs to clean up the facilities he has in his district now. I've been riding around Dodger stadium and other parts of his district. The paths he does have are full of trash, human feces and plain ghetto. The parks are unkempt. He needs to stop looking at some pie in the sky bike paths and clean up his district.
+1 Excellent point, Vanessa!
I use to work as a press secretary for one of the councilpersons in city hall and Ed Reyes is not known as a mover and shaker. He's full of crap. He needs to clean up the facilities he has in his district now. I've been riding around Dodger stadium and other parts of his district. The paths he does have are full of trash, human feces and plain ghetto. The parks are unkempt. He needs to stop looking at some pie in the sky bike paths and clean up his district.
+1 Excellent point, Vanessa!
Placid Casual
OK, let me rephrase that:
Those of you who are not total defeatists are cordially invited to join us (etc., etc.)
Those of you who are not total defeatists are cordially invited to join us (etc., etc.)
Psydotek
The CalTrain between San Jose and San Francisco has one car dedicated to bicycles. There are no seats on the bottom level. The bikes lean against each wall, sometimes as many as 4 or 5 deep. I think it works real well and maybe our subways/trains would adopt something like that if bike usage increased.
I used to take Metrolink with my bike and I did hear people complain about dodging all the bikes near the exit and their concern of getting grease on their clothes. The dedicated car would take care of this.
When you are on the platform, it can sometimes be tricky to guess which car you should board where there is adequate space for your bike. With the dedicated car always in the same position (on the CalTrain, it is always the northernmost car), the bikes know where to board.
As for the dedicated bike paths, I am in favor of these. If a particular path doesn't work for a bicyclist, they can always ride on the street as they do today. Local municipalities cannot prevent a bicycle on a public street.
Ooooh, i'd love to have a dedicated bicycle car (or at least section that holds more than 2 bikes securely) when i'm riding metrolink. I'm lucky that i take the train at relatively off hours (Upland<->Union Station at 4:43AM for the first train inbound to LA or 3:20PM to head home) and can usually find an empty spot for my bike, but there have been afew occasions where we'd have 4 or maybe 5 bicycles stacked in that little space and i'd have to get out my bungie cord to keep the bikes from falling over...
Alas, i still fear that there still aren't enough regular bike commuters who use metrolink to justify more room for bicycles.
I used to take Metrolink with my bike and I did hear people complain about dodging all the bikes near the exit and their concern of getting grease on their clothes. The dedicated car would take care of this.
When you are on the platform, it can sometimes be tricky to guess which car you should board where there is adequate space for your bike. With the dedicated car always in the same position (on the CalTrain, it is always the northernmost car), the bikes know where to board.
As for the dedicated bike paths, I am in favor of these. If a particular path doesn't work for a bicyclist, they can always ride on the street as they do today. Local municipalities cannot prevent a bicycle on a public street.
Ooooh, i'd love to have a dedicated bicycle car (or at least section that holds more than 2 bikes securely) when i'm riding metrolink. I'm lucky that i take the train at relatively off hours (Upland<->Union Station at 4:43AM for the first train inbound to LA or 3:20PM to head home) and can usually find an empty spot for my bike, but there have been afew occasions where we'd have 4 or maybe 5 bicycles stacked in that little space and i'd have to get out my bungie cord to keep the bikes from falling over...
Alas, i still fear that there still aren't enough regular bike commuters who use metrolink to justify more room for bicycles.
Extort
to provide regular updates and progress reports to the bike community through direct communication outlets such as BF. In fact, I'm surprised we had to learn about this plan through my chance stumbling across it while searching for local news items on the rainfall.
There are several advocacy groups in and around LA/Orange County... and some of them post on here. Unfortunately, those groups are almost never contacted by the local governments for involvement before key decisions are made. The groups happen to find out about an activity and then post it onto their website. Too bad I have found that the advocacy groups communication with the people they are meant to serve is haphazard at best. It seems that we are expected to go to their websites for information (which might not be there) instead of them communicating with the community as a whole and linking us back to their website for more information.
There are several advocacy groups in and around LA/Orange County... and some of them post on here. Unfortunately, those groups are almost never contacted by the local governments for involvement before key decisions are made. The groups happen to find out about an activity and then post it onto their website. Too bad I have found that the advocacy groups communication with the people they are meant to serve is haphazard at best. It seems that we are expected to go to their websites for information (which might not be there) instead of them communicating with the community as a whole and linking us back to their website for more information.
KiddSisko
Here's another piece on the Ed Reyes bike plan (http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=1657)
And did anyone read about this West Hollywood drug/bike theft ring bust back in August?
Classic seedy stuff. (http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=1676)
And did anyone read about this West Hollywood drug/bike theft ring bust back in August?
Classic seedy stuff. (http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=1676)
KiddSisko
There are several advocacy groups in and around LA/Orange County... and some of them post on here. Unfortunately, those groups are almost never contacted by the local governments for involvement before key decisions are made. The groups happen to find out about an activity and then post it onto their website. Too bad I have found that the advocacy groups communication with the people they are meant to serve is haphazard at best. It seems that we are expected to go to their websites for information (which might not be there) instead of them communicating with the community as a whole and linking us back to their website for more information.
Through a search I found several of those groups, and I see what you mean by spotty info. They also mostly serve and address their immediate local needs, as it should be. A plan to expand safe bike travel in congested cities is a very good idea. As a long time road biker, I've always just co-existed with autos and the roads built for them. If I don't like one road, I take another. And if it's a "treacherous" road, I ride slower and safer. If I did live within the city and had to ride on those gridlocked roads, I'd be supporting efforts to improve conditions.
Through a search I found several of those groups, and I see what you mean by spotty info. They also mostly serve and address their immediate local needs, as it should be. A plan to expand safe bike travel in congested cities is a very good idea. As a long time road biker, I've always just co-existed with autos and the roads built for them. If I don't like one road, I take another. And if it's a "treacherous" road, I ride slower and safer. If I did live within the city and had to ride on those gridlocked roads, I'd be supporting efforts to improve conditions.
KiddSisko
I use to work as a press secretary for one of the councilpersons in city hall and Ed Reyes is not known as a mover and shaker. He's full of crap. He needs to clean up the facilities he has in his district now. I've been riding around Dodger stadium and other parts of his district. The paths he does have are full of trash, human feces and plain ghetto. The parks are unkempt. He needs to stop looking at some pie in the sky bike paths and clean up his district.
"He's full of crap." Such strong language from an adorable pink kittycat riding a tricycle! :D
You should let him know those poopie bike paths are unacceptable.
"He's full of crap." Such strong language from an adorable pink kittycat riding a tricycle! :D
You should let him know those poopie bike paths are unacceptable.
KiddSisko
Anyway, we're not planning to make trouble or stop the show--indeed, we'll be contributing to it
If you do go, please take pictures and post them. I've got to see the bikes lit up. Also, why not do another ride like the recent one to Pasadena, but with the bikes all decorated and lit up and riding through the streets. Local peeps would probably love seeing that.
If you do go, please take pictures and post them. I've got to see the bikes lit up. Also, why not do another ride like the recent one to Pasadena, but with the bikes all decorated and lit up and riding through the streets. Local peeps would probably love seeing that.
Mo'Phat
OK, let me rephrase that:
Those of you who are not total defeatists are cordially invited to join us (etc., etc.)
:roflmao:
Okay, that made me giggle.
Those of you who are not total defeatists are cordially invited to join us (etc., etc.)
:roflmao:
Okay, that made me giggle.
merider1
:roflmao:
Okay, that made me giggle.
Me too, except I have no idea why he insinuated that I'm a total defeatist. I, in fact, was a rebel before he was. I'm merely pointing out my experience with the darting between cars at the light festival.
But nonetheless, I now have a new title to use once I've tired of my ninja wannabe. :D
Okay, that made me giggle.
Me too, except I have no idea why he insinuated that I'm a total defeatist. I, in fact, was a rebel before he was. I'm merely pointing out my experience with the darting between cars at the light festival.
But nonetheless, I now have a new title to use once I've tired of my ninja wannabe. :D
LCI_Brian
Just some general comments on the discussion of advocacy groups. Keep in mind that the bigger organizations have a few underpaid staff at best, while most organizations are on a 100% volunteer basis. So it's much less labor intensive to put some info on a website, compared to spending time to spread the word around. Furthermore, many of the advocacy organizations claim to speak for the "casual" riders and the working poor, but it would be a HUGE effort to get the word out to these groups.
Another thing is that bicycling advocacy groups generally hold little political power and are therefore not contacted by the decision makers.
Also, most cyclists don't want to be bothered with advocacy - unless something happens such as construction on a favorite riding route. Although I will say that when it's been needed, the clubs have stepped up to the plate to use their membership numbers - in conjunction with leadership from advocates - to obtain results where the advocacy organizations acting alone may have failed.
Another thing is that bicycling advocacy groups generally hold little political power and are therefore not contacted by the decision makers.
Also, most cyclists don't want to be bothered with advocacy - unless something happens such as construction on a favorite riding route. Although I will say that when it's been needed, the clubs have stepped up to the plate to use their membership numbers - in conjunction with leadership from advocates - to obtain results where the advocacy organizations acting alone may have failed.
Placid Casual
UPDATE:
Mission accomplished. Some 30+ riders, with bikes and selves wrapped in lights and tinsel and such, rode as a group through the DWP Festival of Lights at Griffith Park last night to the amusement and delight of hundreds of motor vehicle occupants (I hesitate to call them drivers because they mostly just sat there in gridlock) and pedestrians. The kids dug it especially; they would stick their heads out the window and shout "WHOOOOOO," which is a universally understood signal meaning "what you're doing is cooler than what I'm doing!" When we reached the parking lot at the end of the "festival," somebody suggested riding back to the start in the bus lane--a single lane alongside the traffic lanes but in the opposite direction, used by the infrequent shuttle buses. This we did, and this time the drivers went crazy with the honks and the thumbs-up and the shrieking kids trying to get our attention (they were a little more subdued on the first pass, possibly because we were passing them while they were trapped in traffic). The whole thing couldn't have lasted more than a half an hour.
The rent-a-cops and Parking Enforcement people directing traffic gave us no problems at all, not that there was anything they really could have done. We didn't get hassled by DWP or Park Rangers either, with one exception: after most of us had left the park, one guy headed back into the park on his way to Burbank, whereupon a couple of DWP geniuses began chasing him in a truck, weaving through traffic and yelling "NO BIKES!" Nothing came of it. There were only a small handful of Grinchy drivers.
So there you go. We broke the (phony, invalid) "law," we made our point, a good time was had by all, and we all went on with our evenings.
Now, tell me again what a bad idea this was and how we would regret it and it would all end in tears and we'd put our eyes out...
Mission accomplished. Some 30+ riders, with bikes and selves wrapped in lights and tinsel and such, rode as a group through the DWP Festival of Lights at Griffith Park last night to the amusement and delight of hundreds of motor vehicle occupants (I hesitate to call them drivers because they mostly just sat there in gridlock) and pedestrians. The kids dug it especially; they would stick their heads out the window and shout "WHOOOOOO," which is a universally understood signal meaning "what you're doing is cooler than what I'm doing!" When we reached the parking lot at the end of the "festival," somebody suggested riding back to the start in the bus lane--a single lane alongside the traffic lanes but in the opposite direction, used by the infrequent shuttle buses. This we did, and this time the drivers went crazy with the honks and the thumbs-up and the shrieking kids trying to get our attention (they were a little more subdued on the first pass, possibly because we were passing them while they were trapped in traffic). The whole thing couldn't have lasted more than a half an hour.
The rent-a-cops and Parking Enforcement people directing traffic gave us no problems at all, not that there was anything they really could have done. We didn't get hassled by DWP or Park Rangers either, with one exception: after most of us had left the park, one guy headed back into the park on his way to Burbank, whereupon a couple of DWP geniuses began chasing him in a truck, weaving through traffic and yelling "NO BIKES!" Nothing came of it. There were only a small handful of Grinchy drivers.
So there you go. We broke the (phony, invalid) "law," we made our point, a good time was had by all, and we all went on with our evenings.
Now, tell me again what a bad idea this was and how we would regret it and it would all end in tears and we'd put our eyes out...
cyclezealot
about time. New York and Chicago , so far is way ahead of LA. and LA has the greatest problem with gridlock. go figure.
merider1
So there you go. We broke the (phony, invalid) "law," we made our point, a good time was had by all, and we all went on with our evenings.
Now, tell me again what a bad idea this was and how we would regret it and it would all end in tears and we'd put our eyes out...
Glad you had fun, PC. But I'm not sure what your point was (riding through vehicular gridlock? Making the paid traffic cops at a light event at Griffith Park raise their voices?) and like I said, I already did it in 2005 (so it's kind of passe). Except our group did get off the road when we were told to by the cops, walked with the pedestrians and then took off into the canyons to complete a real ride. Of course, the group I was with were all in their 30s and you're in your 20s. Ahhh...youth.
As for ending in tears and putting your eyes out - you didn't mention that you were also shooting BB guns while out breaking the law at Griffith Park! Shame on you! That can put an eye out, young man.
:D
Now, tell me again what a bad idea this was and how we would regret it and it would all end in tears and we'd put our eyes out...
Glad you had fun, PC. But I'm not sure what your point was (riding through vehicular gridlock? Making the paid traffic cops at a light event at Griffith Park raise their voices?) and like I said, I already did it in 2005 (so it's kind of passe). Except our group did get off the road when we were told to by the cops, walked with the pedestrians and then took off into the canyons to complete a real ride. Of course, the group I was with were all in their 30s and you're in your 20s. Ahhh...youth.
As for ending in tears and putting your eyes out - you didn't mention that you were also shooting BB guns while out breaking the law at Griffith Park! Shame on you! That can put an eye out, young man.
:D
LCI_Brian
Glad it went well. Maybe you could tell the writer of this article about the festival how it went?
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-williamson17dec17,1,7709490.story?ctrack=5&cset=true
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-williamson17dec17,1,7709490.story?ctrack=5&cset=true
Placid Casual
I'm not sure what your point was
To see the lights, to show people that there are better ways to do this than to have thousands of people sitting gridlocked and isolated in their cars night after night, to assert the right of cyclists to ride on a public road whether or not the DWP mistakenly thinks it can override the CVC, to mack on some free samples of corporate coffee, to see old friends and make fun of them, and to have a good time for free in our city. 100% successful on each front. You did it two years ago, but apparently you didn't know how to do it. We did. Learn from us, kid.
To see the lights, to show people that there are better ways to do this than to have thousands of people sitting gridlocked and isolated in their cars night after night, to assert the right of cyclists to ride on a public road whether or not the DWP mistakenly thinks it can override the CVC, to mack on some free samples of corporate coffee, to see old friends and make fun of them, and to have a good time for free in our city. 100% successful on each front. You did it two years ago, but apparently you didn't know how to do it. We did. Learn from us, kid.
Placid Casual
Glad it went well. Maybe you could tell the writer of this article about the festival how it went?
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-williamson17dec17,1,7709490.story?ctrack=5&cset=true
A writer from the Times talked to a few of us on the phone afterward. I don't remember her name, though. We'll see if anything comes of it.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-williamson17dec17,1,7709490.story?ctrack=5&cset=true
A writer from the Times talked to a few of us on the phone afterward. I don't remember her name, though. We'll see if anything comes of it.
merider1
To see the lights, to show people that there are better ways to do this than to have thousands of people sitting gridlocked and isolated in their cars night after night, to assert the right of cyclists to ride on a public road whether or not the DWP mistakenly thinks it can override the CVC, to mack on some free samples of corporate coffee, to see old friends and make fun of them, and to have a good time for free in our city. 100% successful on each front. You did it two years ago, but apparently you didn't know how to do it. We did. Learn from us, kid.
You are so silly. I'm sorry, but what you wrote above is offensive, Placid. In your youth, you are missing something. There are actually people out there who CAN'T RIDE A BIKE for various reasons - many of them due to health (and I don't mean lazy, out of shape, either. I'm speaking of those with illnesses, too old/young to ride, etc.). Why don't you spend your precious energy on bettering the cycling world in other ways. Griffith Park desginating evenings to view the light fesitval by car only (which is perfectly legal, by the way) and advertise that bikes can only come through on a designated evening (Alice had a thread on it, clearly you missed it - you know, where CARS couldn't go through, but anyone on a bike COULD; it was CYCLISTS ONLY on that evening) isn't some big political stand on part of our legislators, denying all of us cyclists our legal rights. You, breaking the law, and riding your little bicycle through gridlock proved nothing. Glad you had fun, but you made NO point.
Nor did I and my group in 2005. We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons that is was far more productive to go ride our bikes up the canyons where no one stops us from riding the same roads as motorists. Oh, wait...ACTUALLY, we cyclists can ride up Mt. Hollywood but cars can't. Oh, look at that. I guess a group of cars should break the law and crash through the gate at the base of Mt. Hollywood and drive up it to prove a point?
:rolleyes:
You are so silly. I'm sorry, but what you wrote above is offensive, Placid. In your youth, you are missing something. There are actually people out there who CAN'T RIDE A BIKE for various reasons - many of them due to health (and I don't mean lazy, out of shape, either. I'm speaking of those with illnesses, too old/young to ride, etc.). Why don't you spend your precious energy on bettering the cycling world in other ways. Griffith Park desginating evenings to view the light fesitval by car only (which is perfectly legal, by the way) and advertise that bikes can only come through on a designated evening (Alice had a thread on it, clearly you missed it - you know, where CARS couldn't go through, but anyone on a bike COULD; it was CYCLISTS ONLY on that evening) isn't some big political stand on part of our legislators, denying all of us cyclists our legal rights. You, breaking the law, and riding your little bicycle through gridlock proved nothing. Glad you had fun, but you made NO point.
Nor did I and my group in 2005. We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons that is was far more productive to go ride our bikes up the canyons where no one stops us from riding the same roads as motorists. Oh, wait...ACTUALLY, we cyclists can ride up Mt. Hollywood but cars can't. Oh, look at that. I guess a group of cars should break the law and crash through the gate at the base of Mt. Hollywood and drive up it to prove a point?
:rolleyes:
alicestrong
Glad you had fun, PC. But I'm not sure what your point was (riding through vehicular gridlock? Making the paid traffic cops at a light event at Griffith Park raise their voices?) and like I said, I already did it in 2005 (so it's kind of passe). Except our group did get off the road when we were told to by the cops, walked with the pedestrians and then took off into the canyons to complete a real ride. Of course, the group I was with were all in their 30s and you're in your 20s. Ahhh...youth.
As for ending in tears and putting your eyes out - you didn't mention that you were also shooting BB guns while out breaking the law at Griffith Park! Shame on you! That can put an eye out, young man.
:D
I'm very curious what the Times had to say about your ride, Mary...
Did you get media coverage?
As for ending in tears and putting your eyes out - you didn't mention that you were also shooting BB guns while out breaking the law at Griffith Park! Shame on you! That can put an eye out, young man.
:D
I'm very curious what the Times had to say about your ride, Mary...
Did you get media coverage?
merider1
I'm very curious what the Times had to say about your ride, Mary...
Did you get media coverage?
Getting media coverage, Alice, doesn't make it right or make a point, my dear. Media often misreports the facts. Or do you want to argue that our Media is perfect.
Really? Want to got there.
Have at it. ;)
Did you get media coverage?
Getting media coverage, Alice, doesn't make it right or make a point, my dear. Media often misreports the facts. Or do you want to argue that our Media is perfect.
Really? Want to got there.
Have at it. ;)
alicestrong
Did you read the Times article?
merider1
Did you read the Times article?
Yes, Alice, I did and I see nothing in the article that inspires me enough to agree with riding a bike in the vehicular gridlock at the light festival (not to mention that it isn't any fun). But if we, as cyclists, would like another night, how about calling the DWP and asking (or get a petition going and submit it)? That's a an option, you know. It may or may not be effective, but has anyone tried?
I am never going to agree with critical mass on any level. For one major reason:
A bike weighs less than 50 pounds. A car weighs upwards of 2,000 pounds. It drives me to drinking that those on bikes feel that they can fight cars (the ludicrous "us vs. them" crap) on the streets. The reality is, they can't. Period. Really. People are nuts enough to kill you. Go ahead, have at it, but I, IMHO, think it is a wasted effort. There ARE better ways (no, I'm not out fighting the good fight, so I commend all of you soldiers. I'm just content to follow the law and ride defensively. But I love the sport of it, and that is my focus).
And last but not least. We're talking about a light festival that lasts (by car) all of 20 minutes in gridlock. Is this really a big fighting platform for the rights of cyclists? If you desperately want to see the light festival and you can't go the night of the cyclists only - why don't you just get a group of friends in a ONE Prius and carpool? Would it kill you? And the cars going through the festival? Are they responsible for global warming?
*sigh*
Yes, Alice, I did and I see nothing in the article that inspires me enough to agree with riding a bike in the vehicular gridlock at the light festival (not to mention that it isn't any fun). But if we, as cyclists, would like another night, how about calling the DWP and asking (or get a petition going and submit it)? That's a an option, you know. It may or may not be effective, but has anyone tried?
I am never going to agree with critical mass on any level. For one major reason:
A bike weighs less than 50 pounds. A car weighs upwards of 2,000 pounds. It drives me to drinking that those on bikes feel that they can fight cars (the ludicrous "us vs. them" crap) on the streets. The reality is, they can't. Period. Really. People are nuts enough to kill you. Go ahead, have at it, but I, IMHO, think it is a wasted effort. There ARE better ways (no, I'm not out fighting the good fight, so I commend all of you soldiers. I'm just content to follow the law and ride defensively. But I love the sport of it, and that is my focus).
And last but not least. We're talking about a light festival that lasts (by car) all of 20 minutes in gridlock. Is this really a big fighting platform for the rights of cyclists? If you desperately want to see the light festival and you can't go the night of the cyclists only - why don't you just get a group of friends in a ONE Prius and carpool? Would it kill you? And the cars going through the festival? Are they responsible for global warming?
*sigh*
alicestrong
about time. New York and Chicago , so far is way ahead of LA. and LA has the greatest problem with gridlock. go figure.
We have the weather on our side but I think the sheer size of Los Angeles creates more complexity when it comes to creating a more cycling friendly environment.
We have the weather on our side but I think the sheer size of Los Angeles creates more complexity when it comes to creating a more cycling friendly environment.
LCI_Brian
Griffith Park desginating evenings to view the light fesitval by car only (which is perfectly legal, by the way)
Oh really? Any public non-freeway road that is legally open to cars is legally open to bikes. Period. If it were private property, they could do whatever they want, but since it's a road in a public park, the part about being open to bikes if it's open to cars should still apply. Perhaps to get around that, every year the DWP applies for a permit to close the road to all users, and they decide to selectively reopen it only to cars, but somehow I doubt it. Even if they did do that, they could still have some legal exposure for trying to do an end run around the Vehicle Code.
We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons
Safety reasons? Sorry, I have to laugh, because riding on a road with 10 mph traffic has got to be safer than all the other riding we (I mean "we" in the general sense) do.
But if we, as cyclists, would like another night, how about calling the DWP and asking (or get a petition going and submit it)? That's a an option, you know. It may or may not be effective, but has anyone tried?
If these folks believe (and I agree with them) that DWP is asserting authority that they don't legally have, then why the heck would they ask the DWP? If I had infinite time and money, I would get a lawyer and demand access, and if they didn't comply, I'd sue. That isn't cheap, of course. It's easier to just ride it, and if you get a traffic ticket, you fight it in court.
I am never going to agree with critical mass on any level. ... It drives me to drinking that those on bikes feel that they can fight cars (the ludicrous "us vs. them" crap) on the streets.
I'm not a fan of critical mass either, with the way many of them are antagonistic to motorists, etc. But this seems quite different - I wasn't there, but the impression I got was that traffic is already gridlocked, and the riders were filtering past the slow/stopped cars. Not too much different that when I've filtered past blocks of gridlock on PCH on a summer afternoon in Laguna Beach. Hardly the same thing as critical mass.
And last but not least. We're talking about a light festival that lasts (by car) all of 20 minutes in gridlock. Is this really a big fighting platform for the rights of cyclists?
With little free time, I pick and choose my battles carefully, so in my case a seasonal light festival ranks pretty low on the list. Furthermore, I've gotten too old (not old, but old enough) and have too many family responsibilities to accept the risks of fighting in a "civil disobedience" type of manner - if I did get involved, it would be more along the lines trying to work with the DWP and/or finding legal support.
But on the other hand, if people sit around and let the DWP circumvent the Vehicle Code, what's to stop the city of Pasadena/Rose Bowl Operating Company (when they tried the two abreast ordinance) or the city of Dana Point (when they tried to prohibit bikes from using PCH after they built the adjacent bike path) from doing so?
Oh really? Any public non-freeway road that is legally open to cars is legally open to bikes. Period. If it were private property, they could do whatever they want, but since it's a road in a public park, the part about being open to bikes if it's open to cars should still apply. Perhaps to get around that, every year the DWP applies for a permit to close the road to all users, and they decide to selectively reopen it only to cars, but somehow I doubt it. Even if they did do that, they could still have some legal exposure for trying to do an end run around the Vehicle Code.
We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons
Safety reasons? Sorry, I have to laugh, because riding on a road with 10 mph traffic has got to be safer than all the other riding we (I mean "we" in the general sense) do.
But if we, as cyclists, would like another night, how about calling the DWP and asking (or get a petition going and submit it)? That's a an option, you know. It may or may not be effective, but has anyone tried?
If these folks believe (and I agree with them) that DWP is asserting authority that they don't legally have, then why the heck would they ask the DWP? If I had infinite time and money, I would get a lawyer and demand access, and if they didn't comply, I'd sue. That isn't cheap, of course. It's easier to just ride it, and if you get a traffic ticket, you fight it in court.
I am never going to agree with critical mass on any level. ... It drives me to drinking that those on bikes feel that they can fight cars (the ludicrous "us vs. them" crap) on the streets.
I'm not a fan of critical mass either, with the way many of them are antagonistic to motorists, etc. But this seems quite different - I wasn't there, but the impression I got was that traffic is already gridlocked, and the riders were filtering past the slow/stopped cars. Not too much different that when I've filtered past blocks of gridlock on PCH on a summer afternoon in Laguna Beach. Hardly the same thing as critical mass.
And last but not least. We're talking about a light festival that lasts (by car) all of 20 minutes in gridlock. Is this really a big fighting platform for the rights of cyclists?
With little free time, I pick and choose my battles carefully, so in my case a seasonal light festival ranks pretty low on the list. Furthermore, I've gotten too old (not old, but old enough) and have too many family responsibilities to accept the risks of fighting in a "civil disobedience" type of manner - if I did get involved, it would be more along the lines trying to work with the DWP and/or finding legal support.
But on the other hand, if people sit around and let the DWP circumvent the Vehicle Code, what's to stop the city of Pasadena/Rose Bowl Operating Company (when they tried the two abreast ordinance) or the city of Dana Point (when they tried to prohibit bikes from using PCH after they built the adjacent bike path) from doing so?
KiddSisko
Another thing is that bicycling advocacy groups generally hold little political power and are therefore not contacted by the decision makers.
I'm curious then, what/who is the inspiration behind this Ed Reyes "plan?" I don't live anywhere near that district, so I'm totally unfamiliar with the local politics and people within. Is the bicycle just the obvious alternative to the auto gridlock solution? Clearly not horses (much to my leather loving dismay). Something like this doesn't just spring up out of the ground from a random politician. I bring this question up hoping someone might know more details beyond what the OP linked article mentions.
I'm curious then, what/who is the inspiration behind this Ed Reyes "plan?" I don't live anywhere near that district, so I'm totally unfamiliar with the local politics and people within. Is the bicycle just the obvious alternative to the auto gridlock solution? Clearly not horses (much to my leather loving dismay). Something like this doesn't just spring up out of the ground from a random politician. I bring this question up hoping someone might know more details beyond what the OP linked article mentions.
Placid Casual
You are so silly. I'm sorry, but what you wrote above is offensive, Placid. In your youth, you are missing something. There are actually people out there who CAN'T RIDE A BIKE for various reasons - many of them due to health (and I don't mean lazy, out of shape, either. I'm speaking of those with illnesses, too old/young to ride, etc.).
You cannot possibly be as dumb as the above makes you seem, and I mean that sincerely. You're capable of comprehending what you read; you're just not doing it for some reason. Where on earth did you get the idea that we advocate requiring people to ride bikes through the festival? You certainly didn't get it from anything I wrote, because I wrote, and we advocate, no such thing.
Our larger point, which was blazingly obvious and which I specifically adumbrated, was that structuring something called a "festival" in such a way as to make the primary way of attending it to sit in a car, in gridlock, isolated from fellow festival-goers except for sucking up their exhaust fumes, is patently absurd; and that we think we have a better way. As should have been easily inferred, that way is to make biking and walking the primary ways to attend the festival. As to the elderly, the sick, the young, the halt, and the lame, your concern for whom is truly touching, I am pleased to call to your attention some marvelous new inventions known as wheelchairs, strollers, and electric personal assisted mobility devices, any and all of which could be made available upon request to those needing but not owning them.
Why don't you spend your precious energy on bettering the cycling world in other ways. Griffith Park desginating evenings to view the light fesitval by car only (which is perfectly legal, by the way) and advertise that bikes can only come through on a designated evening (Alice had a thread on it, clearly you missed it - you know, where CARS couldn't go through, but anyone on a bike COULD; it was CYCLISTS ONLY on that evening) isn't some big political stand on part of our legislators, denying all of us cyclists our legal rights. You, breaking the law, and riding your little bicycle through gridlock proved nothing.
Where on earth did you get the idea that I think the banning of bicycles during the festival is some "big political stand on the part of our legislators"? Certainly not from anything I wrote, because I wrote no such thing. For the record, my understanding of the (preposterously flawed) reasoning behind the ban is that somebody thought it would be unsafe for us to ride with the cars--as though riding with car drivers that are averaging 2 MPH and looking at a light show were somehow more dangerous than riding with cars averaging 40 and talking on the phone while sipping coffee and listening to John and Ken. In other words, the idea isn't to repress us, just to baby us like an overprotective bureaucratic Mom.
Glad you had fun, but you made NO point.
No; we made a point with which you disagree. Surely you do not need me to explain the difference to you.
Nor did I and my group in 2005. We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons that is was far more productive to go ride our bikes up the canyons where no one stops us from riding the same roads as motorists. Oh, wait...ACTUALLY, we cyclists can ride up Mt. Hollywood but cars can't. Oh, look at that. I guess a group of cars should break the law and crash through the gate at the base of Mt. Hollywood and drive up it to prove a point?
Speaking only for myself, I'm not all that crazy about the ban on cars up and down Mt. Hollywood, unless it's somehow needed for fire prevention (catalytic converters or some such thing). I'd rather share that road with cars than with giant-ass "shuttle" buses the size of transcontinental motorcoaches.
You and I are in the same approximate age bracket, by the way. I just didn't stop thinking when I turned 30.
You cannot possibly be as dumb as the above makes you seem, and I mean that sincerely. You're capable of comprehending what you read; you're just not doing it for some reason. Where on earth did you get the idea that we advocate requiring people to ride bikes through the festival? You certainly didn't get it from anything I wrote, because I wrote, and we advocate, no such thing.
Our larger point, which was blazingly obvious and which I specifically adumbrated, was that structuring something called a "festival" in such a way as to make the primary way of attending it to sit in a car, in gridlock, isolated from fellow festival-goers except for sucking up their exhaust fumes, is patently absurd; and that we think we have a better way. As should have been easily inferred, that way is to make biking and walking the primary ways to attend the festival. As to the elderly, the sick, the young, the halt, and the lame, your concern for whom is truly touching, I am pleased to call to your attention some marvelous new inventions known as wheelchairs, strollers, and electric personal assisted mobility devices, any and all of which could be made available upon request to those needing but not owning them.
Why don't you spend your precious energy on bettering the cycling world in other ways. Griffith Park desginating evenings to view the light fesitval by car only (which is perfectly legal, by the way) and advertise that bikes can only come through on a designated evening (Alice had a thread on it, clearly you missed it - you know, where CARS couldn't go through, but anyone on a bike COULD; it was CYCLISTS ONLY on that evening) isn't some big political stand on part of our legislators, denying all of us cyclists our legal rights. You, breaking the law, and riding your little bicycle through gridlock proved nothing.
Where on earth did you get the idea that I think the banning of bicycles during the festival is some "big political stand on the part of our legislators"? Certainly not from anything I wrote, because I wrote no such thing. For the record, my understanding of the (preposterously flawed) reasoning behind the ban is that somebody thought it would be unsafe for us to ride with the cars--as though riding with car drivers that are averaging 2 MPH and looking at a light show were somehow more dangerous than riding with cars averaging 40 and talking on the phone while sipping coffee and listening to John and Ken. In other words, the idea isn't to repress us, just to baby us like an overprotective bureaucratic Mom.
Glad you had fun, but you made NO point.
No; we made a point with which you disagree. Surely you do not need me to explain the difference to you.
Nor did I and my group in 2005. We did it as it sounded fun. But my group's maturity won out (thank goodness), and we realized when the paid traffic cops asked us to get out of traffic for safety reasons that is was far more productive to go ride our bikes up the canyons where no one stops us from riding the same roads as motorists. Oh, wait...ACTUALLY, we cyclists can ride up Mt. Hollywood but cars can't. Oh, look at that. I guess a group of cars should break the law and crash through the gate at the base of Mt. Hollywood and drive up it to prove a point?
Speaking only for myself, I'm not all that crazy about the ban on cars up and down Mt. Hollywood, unless it's somehow needed for fire prevention (catalytic converters or some such thing). I'd rather share that road with cars than with giant-ass "shuttle" buses the size of transcontinental motorcoaches.
You and I are in the same approximate age bracket, by the way. I just didn't stop thinking when I turned 30.
KiddSisko
Can't we all just... get along? (now imagine Jack Nicholson smiling his smile... and then... :duck!: )
KiddSisko
UPDATE:
Mission accomplished. Some 30+ riders, with bikes and selves wrapped in lights and tinsel and such, rode as a group through the DWP Festival of Lights at Griffith Park last night to the amusement and delight of hundreds of motor vehicle occupants (I hesitate to call them drivers because they mostly just sat there in gridlock) and pedestrians.
Pictures, I asked for pictures. I don't see any pictures. Everyone loves pictures.
Mission accomplished. Some 30+ riders, with bikes and selves wrapped in lights and tinsel and such, rode as a group through the DWP Festival of Lights at Griffith Park last night to the amusement and delight of hundreds of motor vehicle occupants (I hesitate to call them drivers because they mostly just sat there in gridlock) and pedestrians.
Pictures, I asked for pictures. I don't see any pictures. Everyone loves pictures.
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