Living Car Free - Are you a hippie?

No seriously. I'm facinated by the thought of being carless but I can't ever do that with my corporate office job.

you know what thought did ?

thought thought he fart but she shat herself

:D

seriously though

your post has outlined a limiting decision that only you can change

... am i a hippy ?

nahh, i'm just made of earth

I'm facinated by the thought of being carless but I can't ever do that with my corporate office job.
Stick around here a while and maybe you'll get an idea or two that would work in your situation. Even if you can't manage to completely liberate yourself from a personal motor vehicle, you can reduce your car dependence.

For example, it might possibly be useful for a corporate road warrior to know how to get around in big cities on the local subways, light rail, buses, etc. That would go double if you are an international traveller. That's just an example of something you could do and maybe not even the best one.

Sure I see what you are saying, but I'm not in a particularly metropolitan area and I realistically can't ride my bike to work with my dress code. I try to every casual fridays, but especially when considering the "blustery" weather here, I just have to drive. Public transport is not very likely for my with my commute.

definatly not a hippy I much enjoy bathing with soap, I cannot play a guitar, I don't to drugs, I don't sing at campfires, and I don't love people I don't know.

Sure I see what you are saying, but I'm not in a particularly metropolitan area and I realistically can't ride my bike to work with my dress code. I try to every casual fridays, but especially when considering the "blustery" weather here, I just have to drive. Public transport is not very likely for my with my commute.
Stick around anyway. Corporate jobs aren't forever and even major life choices can be revised from time to time. If you have a good understanding of car free living, you'll be better prepared to make the appropriate choices if & when the opportunity arises.

I'm not a hippie.

Why not take it one car trip at at time? Can you reduce your usage? Any chance of driving in clothes once or twice a week so you could bike commute a little more often? What else do you use your car for and can any of those be done by bike instead? Saving money on gas is never a bad thing. :)

I try very hard not to drive when possible. At the same time, cycling has always been a fitness/recreational activity to me versus transportation. It's quite difficult, I have found out, to coordinate the logistics of bike travel (weather, change of clothes, bike upkeep) when you depend on it several times per week.

Depends on our definition of hippy

All you Eugene hippies are the same! (says a duck.) ;)

I try very hard not to drive when possible. At the same time, cycling has always been a fitness/recreational activity to me versus transportation. It's quite difficult, I have found out, to coordinate the logistics of bike travel (weather, change of clothes, bike upkeep) when you depend on it several times per week.
Not too difficult. :) It does require some changes to your thinking, it's true. You've got some really elegant bikes, but they don't seem to be well equipped for an Oregon rainy season. So, one thing at a time. Why don't you start with getting yourself and inexpensive but solid bad weather bike? I think you'll find it easier to deal with the logistics when you have a well-equipped bike.

Also, try to see if you can make it to the Towards Carfree Cities (http://www.carfreeportland.org/) conference. This is the first time it will be held in North America. Car-free folks in Portland are friendly, and truly, we can't be car-free or even car-light very easily without community.

How many miles a week would you need to ride? Over the west hills? None of the bikes on your velospace page are appropriate for year-round plainclothes transportation. Doesn't the fact that biking has been your recreational thing make you more, rather than less ready to take it to the next level?

I've held corporate jobs for years, some 6-figure, riding over 100 miles a week year round, never owning a car and seldom taking transit. Not a hippy, but hippy-friendly. (Now I own a bike shop here in PDX. We carry nothing without fenders, rack, lights.)

tfahrner, which bike shop?

The new Poprad I have is my "bad weather bike". It's got fenders on and I ride rain or shine on the weekends. It's not a matter of fitness... I'm fast and I ride 150 miles per week. It's just hard even from the perspective of social circles - I work with many overweight office people and I am somewhat of an anomaly.
Like I said, I commute on Fridays when possible but on other days, with my dress requirements, it's tough.

Beyond that, say I need some friggen groceries from costco, what the hell do I do? It require MAJOR life changes and consumer-behavior changes to adapt into a car-free life. You know, I'd love to have a custom Ira Ryan porter bike with a nice grocery-go-getter rack, but I can't be bother with the wait time. :)

tfahrner, which bike shop?

The new Poprad I have is my "bad weather bike". It's got fenders on and I ride rain or shine on the weekends. It's not a matter of fitness... I'm fast and I ride 150 miles per week. It's just hard even from the perspective of social circles - I work with many overweight office people and I am somewhat of an anomaly.
Like I said, I commute on Fridays when possible but on other days, with my dress requirements, it's tough.

Beyond that, say I need some friggen groceries from costco, what the hell do I do? It require MAJOR life changes and consumer-behavior changes to adapt into a car-free life. You know, I'd love to have a custom Ira Ryan porter bike with a nice grocery-go-getter rack, but I can't be bother with the wait time. :)

I can carry 90+ pounds of groceries on my bike with no problem. Have done it many times, too!

If that's still not enough for you, bikes at work sells bicycle trailers capable of carrying 300+ pounds!

There are ways to commute to work, regardless of dress code... a few have been mentioned earlier in the thread... personally, I've ridden 30 miles (round trip) in interview clothes before... even raced a roadie on the way back! :D

Bottom line is: If you don't want to be carfree or commute full time, don't do it! Don't waste your time on an internet forum making excuses for why you couldn't possibly do it. Surely you have better things to do.

Edit: Oh, and as far as consumer-behavior changes: You'll quickly find your shopping habits change... I spend a lot less at the grocery store than I used to. You don't have the space to make a bunch of frivolous purchases... so the impulse buying is cut down immensely. It's led to a lower food bill, and healthier eating. You shop more often, and you don't get as much each time. Who NEEDS to get groceries at Costco, anyway? (Unless you have a small army at home to feed?)

I'm not making excuses foolio, I made no declaration of my desire to commute full time. I'm merely facinated my the socio-economic disparity between carfree types and everyone else. I've never been to this forum so I'm just check it out.

Hippie? Not at all. I actually dislike hippies but I am carless because it's easier. Everywhere I need to go is within 1 km of walking distance, which I do by bike. If I had a car, it would be sitting in the underground parking collecting spiderwebs because my errand bike is right by my door.

I live three blocks away from Costco (Downtown Costco is below two condo and not out in an open space), and it's near a rapid transit system (which we call 'skytrain.')

Library, post office, supermarkets, underground mall, major banks, etc are all within easy walking distance where driving is PITA because of all the one way streets and parking.
You spend less time finding a parking spot and walking towards your destination because there are bike racks near the entrance.


The ultimate ideal neighbourhood is actually one where you can easily get by being carless and bikeless (can't do that for me, I love bikes too much) because everywhere you need to go, and I mean everywhere, is within 2 minutes of walking distance. For North American today, those location are usually and always high density urban centres.


None of the bikes on your velospace page are appropriate for year-round plainclothes transportation. Doesn't the fact that biking has been your recreational thing make you more, rather than less ready to take it to the next level?

Being carless is a lot easier if you have a bike that can allow plain cloths.

This is exactly what I wear when I do my usual errands. I also have similar POS ultra durable granny dutch single speed style bike.
http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/ps0s_amsterdam_bicycle_cell.jpg

If you have to commute more than 5km, then it would not be feasible (at least for me).

I'm big on personal choices and not telling others what to do. If you feel you need a car, by all means keep it. If you don't want major changes in your lifestyle, don't. Knowing the options available is certainly a plus, but options doesn't require you to make a choice.

I try very hard not to drive when possible. At the same time, cycling has always been a fitness/recreational activity to me versus transportation. It's quite difficult, I have found out, to coordinate the logistics of bike travel (weather, change of clothes, bike upkeep) when you depend on it several times per week.

Maybe you should take a long-term approach to this issue. You say you cannot, for example, drive to work. One thing you might try is a weekly bike trip that combines transportation with recreation. For me it was a weekly trip to a health-food store. My only caveat was that I HAD to do this trip by bike.

Over time, the trip became a habit and suddenly I was noticing that I'm getting recreation, exercise and -- as a bonus -- some healthy food. This "win-win-win" now seems like a no-brainer, although I did have to work a little bit to implement it.

If you try something like this, it won't take long before you will probably find yourself making a lot of other trips by bike. ... But, of course, it won't happen overnight and you shouldn't have to change you lifestyle much.

No seriously. I'm facinated by the thought of being carless but I can't ever do that with my corporate office job.

Well, I've known hippies who weren't carfree and carfree folks who aren't hippies and a few carfree hippies like myself.

I don't know what reasons you really have for not taking the plunge. I have been carfree working in the headquarters of one of the biggest banks in the country and at a major aerospace firm.

I don't need to go into all the details, they are well covered in other threads. But perhaps you should just edge into it gently. Scope out your company so you know where you'll park your bike and what you need to do to stay clean. Again, check the threads for details. The problems have all been conquered by other folks already. Then ride to work on a casual friday. Then find other days to ride, or even ride it at lunch. You may start something. ;)

As a wag, I might suggest, just ditch the car and everything else will work itself out. It really will.

you are a hippie.
don't try to deny it.
everyone who lives in Oregon is required to be a hippie.
they passed an initiative.
Measure 49, i think.

http://prince.org/i/s/icon_hah.gif hippie in a suit

j/k

tfahrner, which bike shop?

The new Poprad I have is my "bad weather bike". It's got fenders on and I ride rain or shine on the weekends. It's not a matter of fitness... I'm fast and I ride 150 miles per week. It's just hard even from the perspective of social circles - I work with many overweight office people and I am somewhat of an anomaly.
Like I said, I commute on Fridays when possible but on other days, with my dress requirements, it's tough.

Beyond that, say I need some friggen groceries from costco, what the hell do I do? It require MAJOR life changes and consumer-behavior changes to adapt into a car-free life. You know, I'd love to have a custom Ira Ryan porter bike with a nice grocery-go-getter rack, but I can't be bother with the wait time. :)
Tfahrner owns Clever Cycles.

When I go to Costco, I put my Burley Flatbed on the back of my bike and go. Even if you didn't want to put a rear rack on the Poprad, you could do that. If you don't have a bike you'd be willing to put a rack on, you might consider getting such a bike. It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. You don't even need an upright bike of the sort that tfahrner and I prefer.

But again, don't focus so much on the car-free part. Think more along the lines of changing more trips by car into trips by bike. Besides your casual Fridays, how could you get another bike commute day per week into your schedule?


I'm merely facinated my the socio-economic disparity between carfree types and everyone else. I've never been to this forum so I'm just check it out.
I think you'd be surprised at the variety of socio-economic types on this forum.

You need to get a bigger imagination. We have a bunch of bike commuters here at our facility, which is one of the world's largest corporations related to the international oil & gas industry. All of the bike commuters are technogeeks with advanced science and engineering degrees, a combined 200 years of industry experience, each making well into six figure incomes. We are not hippies.

Our corporate MS150 fundraising team has 300 members.

Cycling is the new golf. You join the cycling team to brown-nose your boss.





No seriously. I'm facinated by the thought of being carless but I can't ever do that with my corporate office job.

All of the bike commuters are technogeeks, each making well into six figure incomes.

I want to work where you do. ;)

I am a corportae stooge & ride every dam' day.
Dress code is business casual. I fold my clothes carefully in my pack & change @ work. not perfect but doable...

I guess to my redneck friends I'd be a hippy, we recycle, have chickens, a big garden, an old house instead of a big new house, we ride our bikes instead of driving, I think the governments job is to support the people and not big business. I don't consider myself a hippy. I think being a hippy is a fashion statement not a lifestyle choice.

I consider car lite, car free to be an extremely conservative activity.

If I am a hippie, then I am a gun-toting, anti baby-murder, anti-tax, anti-social service, pro legal citizen only hippie

I recently accomplished two things.

First, I started dressing more professionally at work. This is optional, being a first grade teacher.

Second, my slacks, sport coat, dress shirts, shoes, and ties were all carried to school on my bike.

This is significant, considering that many bike commuters claim that they need to drive once a week to carry clothes back and forth.

However, by making use of a good sized messenger bag, you can carry almost any type of garment and have it emerge entirely presentable, including suits.

As far as corporate image, if you wear roadie gear and commute on a nice bike, you should be able to maintain it. When I see a roadie wearing a team kit on a CF road bike, I often for a stereotype that he or she have a high paying corporate office job.

If I am a hippie, then I am a gun-toting, anti baby-murder, anti-tax, anti-social service, pro legal citizen only hippie

LOL

right there with ya:D

cheers

One more thing. If I had Min's choice of bikes, I'd ride to work every single day. In fact, I'd work an extra day so I could bike more.

Cycling is the new golf.
Yes indeed, I think that is now the case. You can't be firmly in the loop on the creative and engineering side of things unless you cycle.

i sleep on a futon on the floor, don't have a tv or ipod. and i smoke pot. i'm a hippie.

One more thing. If I had Min's choice of bikes, I'd ride to work every single day. In fact, I'd work an extra day so I could bike more.

:o

Here in Oregon, I see the same fat guy ride his 45 lb mtb to work everyday in the rain on my way to work. I feel slightly less hardcore when I see this humbling sight.

Dumb question, but does the Poprad take racks and fenders? If so, you have the perfect Oregon commute bike. Once again, crazy not to put it to use as such.

Just a few other notes.

I'm fairly certain that I smell and look worse on days when I drive rather than bike.

Some "non-hippie" reasons to go car-free:

Driving leads to back and knee problems. Riding a properly geared and fitted bike relieves back and knee problems.

"One Less Car" = "One more parking spot" for your co-workers. You can even mention that you go car free out of sympathy for ________ who has trouble walking long distances, needs to park close for job or family reasons etc.

Say you are convinced that driving is more dangerous than biking. Your bike won't burst into flames if you crash into a tree. You will not be trapped inside it if you accidentally ride off a bridge into a river. Paramedics will never need to use the Jaws of Life to free you from the twisted wreckage of your bike. After a long day at the office and little sleep the night before, it's highly unlikely that you will "fall asleep at the handlebars."

If your commute is more than than what you consider a short training ride, say that it saves time because on weekends and after work you can spend time with your family since you don't have to make time for a "bike ride."

If your commute is short, it probably will actually save you time considering that the average speed of a car is 16mph through city traffic. I'm sure you bike faster than that.

Then there's the whole issue of stress and driving. Tout the benefits of your ride before and after work and how it blows off the stress of your corporate job and makes you more focused.

Finally, any ridicule you get about biking, just take as a compliment. People stop saying I'm crazy when I tell them that I just filled up my gas tank for the first time since August.

Yessir, the Poprad take fenders. I have SKS Chromo 45 on there now with 35c knobbie tires, without problems.

I'm not too keen on racks and panniers, etc. It really jacks up the handling dynamics of the bike.

And thanks for a good post, very insightful observations!

I'm not too keen on racks and panniers, etc. It really jacks up the handling dynamics of the bike.
They jack up the handling of bikes that are designed for sport or recreation (unless a touring bike, and even then you tend to have to pack stuff carefully). Ditch the car and you'll have more than enough money to kit yourself out with bikes designed to carry stuff while wearing suit and tie, if that's your pleasure. You can join Flexcar for the few times a year you might not want to bike to your destination(s). You'll still come out ahead in terms of time and money dedicated to getting around, so you can concentrate on the really important problem of "socio-economic disparity" with your car-dependent "overweight office people" colleagues. You could buy them lunch, maybe -- give 'em a hand up.

You may also find that there's no better training for sport riding than riding a utility bike every day. In fact you may never have to "train" at all. It always amuses me when sport/fitness riders click out of their featherweight carbon rides and ask where we keep the "serious" bikes, by which they mean the ones that won't challenge their weakness the way, say, a 100-lb bakfiets loaded with kids and crap might: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/2120992301/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/1954510146/

No, I'm not a hippie, though I would take it as a compliment if someone chose to refer to me as one.

I'm just a guy riding my bicycle to my "corporate office job".

I now work in academia and I see students and professors and hipsters and hippies and various others riding bicycles. I go into the city and I see corporate folks riding in suits.

I used to work in Pharma and there were great secure bike racks since the VPs would bike in on their bling roadies and needed a nice storage area.

Never say never.

Go here (http://www.cicle.org/)

and read this (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-9030938-3285455?asin=1580087574&afid=yahoosspplp_bmvd&lnm=1580087574|How_to_Live_Well_Without_Owning_a_Car:_Save_Money,_Breathe_Easier,_and_Get_More_Milea ge_Out_of_Life_:_Books&ref=tgt_adv_XSNG1060)

I commute 5 days a week on a bicycle and don't own a car. Was a Peace Corps Volunteer. I work as a systems administrator (computer geek). Business casual.

I wouldn't be classified as a hippy. I just enjoy like riding bikes, computers, and traveling...

During the 7 years I was carfree, I was a fairly well off Engineering Technician in the Engineering Department of a fairly large company. Definitely not a hippie! Definitely not on the lower end of the economic scale.

I'm sure we've all got dress codes of some sort ... but we don't cycle to work in our work clothes. We dress in cycling gear of some sort for the ride, and carry our work clothes in our panniers or trunk bags, then change and shower and/or clean up in some way once we get to work. :)

As for handling ... the panniers or trunk bags (personally I prefer trunk bags for a commute) make the bicycle more stable. The handling improves.

Some people call me a hippy because I don't drive a car, avoid television, recycle everything I can (especially bikes) and because I don't quite fit in with the conservatives I work with.

I became car free in May after being car light for several years and don't regret that decision at all and do recognize that not everyone can go car free but car light could and should be an option for many people.

My van payment and insurance was $600.00 a month and my fuel bill was easily $200.00 a month which was nearly equal to a week's pay after one factored in upkeep.

Much of what keeps people tied to their cars is the fact they have to work more to pay for their cars and many end up living an overlife where they work overtime to pay for their life, and end up overtired, and overstressed.

I hang out with many car free and car light people and have noted that they really do enjoy a very high quality of life since they have chosen not to live an overlife.

I'm not making excuses foolio, I made no declaration of my desire to commute full time. I'm merely facinated my the socio-economic disparity between carfree types and everyone else. I've never been to this forum so I'm just check it out.

It may be that some of "us" ;) could care less about the almighty dollar and more about what we perceive as quality of life. I cycle commuted exclusively for about 12 years I was car free or car light most of that time. In 1996 I was part of a massive lay off from a national brand manufacturing facility. I was not offered a position at another location as some were, probably due to lack of seniority. I took the only job I could find that came close to replacing the lost income, however it put me on the road and off my bike.:( at the time it was a purely financial decision. I had a family to support and available local jobs weren't going to do it. Also my wife at the time was in a stable job (though not a high paying one) so the choices were made. Currently I am in the upper end of the 5 figure income and would gladly ditch it for a lower stress job and the ability to cycle commute again. It may happen in the near future with the economy headed for the crapper, but I am staying in the job for a few more years to bank as much money as possible for a safety net.

Aaron:)

definatly not a hippy I much enjoy bathing with soap, I cannot play a guitar, I don't to drugs, I don't sing at campfires, and I don't love people I don't know.

I may steal this line for my sig. :p

I'm not making excuses foolio, I made no declaration of my desire to commute full time. I'm merely facinated my the socio-economic disparity between carfree types and everyone else. I've never been to this forum so I'm just check it out.

:eek: I must confess that I was more than a little shocked by your statement.

Nobody but us pooor folks rid'n bicycles here :p

It's a very ignorant statement. You have no idea how much people earn on this forum.

I think you'll find there isn't a correlation between income and the choice to be care free.

Part of the reason I'm care free is the money I save helps my to afford very nice vacations every year.

Last year we went to India, France, and Russia. in 2008 we are going to Belize in the Spring. Not having a car gives me the freedom to take these long vacations.

I personally only drive out of town to see my girlfriend and on days when its snowing. Otherwise its bus, bike or walking.

It's a very ignorant statement. You have no idea how much people earn on this forum.

I think you'll find there isn't a correlation between income and the choice to be care free.

Part of the reason I'm care free is the money I save helps my to afford very nice vacations every year.

Last year we went to India, France, and Russia. in 2008 we are going to Belize in the Spring. Not having a car gives me the freedom to take these long vacations.
That's true, but I'm not particularly offended. People outside of our Bicycle Tribe say far worse. It would be sad to think you can't get on here and ask honest questions of one of your own. While I haven't met MIN, I'm confident he doesn't mean anything rude by his questions and assumptions. We all live and we learn. :)

Sorry I wasn't trying to instigate. No offense intended. But you have to concede that there are lots of "neo-hippies", if you will, who champion the car-free cause. Don't act like that's a stretch of my imagination.

My reference to "social-economic disparity" doesn't imply a class struggle or income disparity - it was my general reference to the fact that the car-free types that I know are hippi-eque and that's a social-economic category. That's what I had intended to get across anyway.

I went to school in Eugene and live in Portland. C'mon, I know hippies.

Knowing the area and your experiences, you do indeed know hippies. ;) I think you'll find a greater diversity of car-free/car-light folks on Bike Forums than locally in Portland. Also, consider that the ones in our area who aren't particularly "hippy-ish" might keep a lower profile than the ones you may know or recognize.

Sorry I wasn't trying to instigate. No offense intended. But you have to concede that there are lots of "neo-hippies", if you will, who champion the car-free cause. Don't act like that's a stretch of my imagination.

My reference to "social-economic disparity" doesn't imply a class struggle or income disparity - it was my general reference to the fact that the car-free types that I know are hippi-eque and that's a social-economic category. That's what I had intended to get across anyway.

I went to school in Eugene and live in Portland. C'mon, I know hippies.

Thanks for the clarification :)

Quick definitions (hippie)

noun: someone who rejects the established culture; advocates extreme liberalism in politics and lifestyle

Yes, I'm a hippie.