Road Bike Racing - Astana + Trek + Giro = Corporate Ambivalence?

Say you see an entire bike team kicked out of the biggest bike race in the world, do you then 5 months later rush to sponsor them?

If you ever wondered if the almighty buck ruled, here's your proof.

Shameful.

Say you see an entire bike team kicked out of the biggest bike race in the world, do you then 5 months later rush to sponsor them?

If you ever wondered if the almighty buck ruled, here's your proof.

Shameful.

You don't get it do you? This recent chain of events doesn't symbolize 'corporate ambivalence' at all. Large western companies like Disco and T-Mobile have dropped cycling like a hot potato. Who's left? The friggin Khazakstan National Railway, Astana (a company from Borat's home country for God's sake) and Giro/Trek, high line BICYCLE companies, who will never abandon pro cycling, that's their niche industry. To be sure Giro and Trek are secondary GEAR sponsors. They are not the primary source of funding at all.

The real money has left the room son. Pro cycling should be grateful that Astana is hanging in there. Interpreting their continued involvement as 'ambivalence' is your affair, but frankly, what some whacky semi-third world oil company does isn't indicative of how the mainline corporate sponsors cycling really needs are reacting. They may not be back into the game for many years at this point.

Why is Astana still in, anyway? I never understood what benefit they received to begin with (do they interact with consumer-level-type people Europe/Asia?), but now with Vino out...

Why does the little bike shop down the street sponsor your no-name team? It's the same reason.

Why do all the little companies in Austin give our team tons of money? Again, same reason. It's more of a tax write-off (though I don't know how much this applies in Khazakstan, haha), feel good kind of thing. They publicity they get from it is slim to none.

Why does the little bike shop down the street sponsor your no-name team?

It's their frickin' team, that's why!

Oh, OK. Not in my case :). I ride for two teams, UT and AT&T/Brain and Spine. Both are ridiculously well funded considering their results, both have great bike shop sponsorships, and neither are a bike shop team.

You don't get it do you? This recent chain of events doesn't symbolize 'corporate ambivalence' at all. Large western companies like Disco and T-Mobile have dropped cycling like a hot potato. Who's left? The friggin Khazakstan National Railway, Astana (a company from Borat's home country for God's sake) and Giro/Trek, high line BICYCLE companies, who will never abandon pro cycling, that's their niche industry. To be sure Giro and Trek are secondary GEAR sponsors. They are not the primary source of funding at all.

The real money has left the room son. Pro cycling should be grateful that Astana is hanging in there. Interpreting their continued involvement as 'ambivalence' is your affair, but frankly, what some whacky semi-third world oil company does isn't indicative of how the mainline corporate sponsors cycling really needs are reacting. They may not be back into the game for many years at this point.

OMG...A lucid, intelligent post by Pcad? There must be a cold front moving waaaaay south :eek:
j/k

I agree with everything you said there.

Sponsorship is advertising. Where else is Astana going to advertise? Meanwhile, Astana's country, Khazakstan, has been mocked all over the world by Borat and perhaps, just perhaps, sponsoring even a dirty Pro-cycling team offsets Borat just a little bit. Watching Borat, the mere idea that they cycle there is far fetched- Astana betrays the fiction of that popular movie. Its a win for both Khazakstan and Astana regardless of how doped up cycling is.

As for Trek and Giro- sponsoring bike teams is the bedrock of their advertising and they CANNOT abandon that method. That's what they do.

Astana is a conglomeration of companies last I checked, though, so it's not gaining any one company much pub...

The sponsor is the Astana Group, not the city of Astana or the country of Kazakhstan. If I remember correctly, the Astana Group is made up of a bunch of manufacturing and construction firms and an airline, all based in Kazakhstan.

The city of Astana is being built with (a lot of) oil money, and new Kazakh businesses are gaining a foothold in the European and world markets. Why would the Group sponsor a bike race team? Same reason as any other sponsor, someone on the board is probably a bike nut.

im not so concerned with the ambivalence of the sponsors as i am of the riders and coaches.

Disco was starting to feel the heat for sheltering dopers in Contador, Basso, and of coarse the guilt by association now more widely recognized for all the lance/postal years.

Instead of joining the movement (how ever effective it may be) to clean up cycling, what do they do? They all jump ship to the team with the most publicly humiliating series of systematic doping allegations since Festina!

The most successful DS of a generation, Brunyeel, has no intent to clean up cycling, nor do the riders flocking to astana with him. Thats the real shame.

Yeah, honestly, that's really what it comes down to.


Same reason as any other sponsor, someone on the board is probably a bike nut.

Say you see an entire bike team kicked out of the biggest bike race in the world, do you then 5 months later rush to sponsor them?


Is Astana the team and the sponsor? I know they are the sponsor, I doubt they are the "team". Wasn't Vino and the clown behind the wheel DS the real "Team". I know with most pro cycling organizations, there is a management team and a sponsor.

US Postal and Discovery (and goes back much earlier) were just sponsors (title sponsors), the team was always Tailwind or whatever iteration of that team managed the "Team" at the time.

Not unlike "T-Mobile", T-Modlie was the sponsor, but Team High Road was the "Team".

New management, mostly new riders, it seems like this is pretty much a new team, an old sponsor, but a new team.

I'm not saying they have new tactics but if they are going to use the same anti-doping org as CSC did last year, it will be hard to point the finger at them for doping.

Same reason as any other sponsor, someone on the board is probably a bike nut.

good point.

go to any race track, anywhere... from an 1/8th mile dirt circle to your local drag strip or road course...

all these vehicles are smeared with local businesses (usually bad) paint jobs.


why? its not the incredible return they get from their advertising dollars... its 'cuz somebody's got some cash to burn and LOVES that particular sport.

Same reason as any other sponsor, someone on the board is probably a bike nut.

As I recall reading somewhere Vino was good friends with the President of Kazakhstan, Astana being (I believe at least in some parts) a crown corporation makes this seem very likely.

If you ever wondered if the almighty buck ruled, here's your proof.

Ah, who really thought that the buck didn't rule????

... Brad

Kazakhstan is just trying to keep their place in this world above the Kyrgystans and Turkmenistans and Stan Laurels of the world.

Cycling seems to be working because we here in Not-a-stan are talking about them.

I, for one, can't wait to hop an Astana train and see their great nation with mine own eyes.

Ah, who really thought that the buck didn't rule????

... Brad

People who are paid in Euros?

People who are paid in Euros?

And the eternal Pound Sterling. :)

Just bought some ridiculous Specialized S-Works BG shoes today using the ruble-valued dollar!

Tragically, they're so bling that I'll have to come up with some actual cycling ability to justify them.

OMG...A lucid, intelligent post by Pcad? There must be a cold front moving waaaaay south :eek:
j/k

I agree with everything you said there.

But you should treasure Pcad, a rare Beacon of Light, Truth and Reason on all of BF.

Interesting discussion. If people really want to know about the Kazakh (Cossack) culture, they should perhaps begin with wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan

Their culture and nomadic and pastoralist ways of life have been emerging since the development of the Silk Road. The Kazakh cultural identity and nationhood came under the Turkic tribes in the 15th CENTURY. In addition, it may be interesting to know that this "third world"'s GDP has been growing rapidly since the turn of the century. You might find it, if you peep past your strip-malls and get over your Disney-esque myopia, to be a rich culture worthy of your investigation.

Astana was not the only team to be stricken with doping allegations and positives: all are guilty, and all are paying. While I flinch at some of the bigoted statements in this thread, I must agree that Astana's continued investment and commitment to this sport is fantastic; and their resolve to produce clean riders and a clean sport is commendable and -- in my mind -- will lead long-time investors like T-Mobile back into the sport.

Not only that, but Astana is an important epoch in the culture of cycling: a move outside traditional European investment and control of the sport. This year will see the first Pro Tour event in Australia, and talks are underway for a colossal tour in China, which I think is fantastic. And Slipstream is going to be a wonderful new addition to the Pro Tour, a very different entity than Postal/Discovery -- which, to my mind at least, was just as crooked as the rest.

Why does the little bike shop down the street sponsor your no-name team? It's the same reason.

Why do all the little companies in Austin give our team tons of money? Again, same reason. It's more of a tax write-off (though I don't know how much this applies in Khazakstan, haha), feel good kind of thing. They publicity they get from it is slim to none.

Define "tons of money"...

OMG...A lucid, intelligent post by Pcad? There must be a cold front moving waaaaay south :eek:
j/k

I agree with everything you said there.

Pcad, this should frighten you.

Once you have achieved sufficient Cycling Zen, the only thing that frightens you is the prospect of being unable to ride a bicycle on a regular basis.

Kazakhstan is second world, you geo-political-weenies.

Most corrupt conutries in the world 2007 - according to Transparency International. I have to admit I'm surprised that Kazakistan is not on there. I did not read the methodology. Tonga? What's the new King been up to?

Rank Country
1. Myanmar
Somalia
2. Iraq
3. Haiti
4. Tonga
Uzbekistan
5. Afghanistan
Chad
Sudan
6. Congo, Democratic Republic
Equatorial Guinea
Guinea
Laos

The entire list is here http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

Kazakhstan is second world, you geo-political-weenies.

If you were truly a geo-political weenie you'd know the term 1st, 2nd and 3rd world are commonly used anymore!

If you were truly a geo-political weenie you'd know the term 1st, 2nd and 3rd world are commonly used anymore!

I think you meant "are not" used any more.
I still hear third world, but never the first two.

Kazakhstan is second world, you geo-political-weenies.

It does a very convincing third world impression however.

I think it's real easy to assume that companies 'leave' sponsorship because of drug scandals. Sure, a core group of idiots look to sports people for moral guidance, but I think a lot of companies still hold the adage 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'. If this were not true, there wouldn't BE any Tdf.

I think it's real easy to assume that companies 'leave' sponsorship because of drug scandals. Sure, a core group of idiots look to sports people for moral guidance, but I think a lot of companies still hold the adage 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'. If this were not true, there wouldn't BE any Tdf.

Uh huh.

Let me know how far this thinking gets you attracting companies like Honeywell, Apple and GM to sponsor pro cycling.

One of the most important things out there for a cycling company is to get your name out there. People are attracted to buying products that are used by their hero. It's almost a death wish for a bigger company to have no team at all using their product.

Kazakhstan uses cycling as a way to promote tourism. It's really not anymore expensive (actually even less sometimes) then a lot of other methods used to attract people.

Who here would really know anything about Kazakhstan if they weren't sponsoring a cycling team (some would, myself included as I enjoy politics and learning about other countries, but not most) ?

When you first look at it, the average person may see it as "Wow, a whole country sponsors a pro cycling team. They must really like cyclists. Let's go there for a vacation."

When you first look at it, the average person may see it as "Wow, a whole country sponsors a pro cycling team. They must really like cyclists. Let's go there for a vacation."

The average person is one dumb SOB but I don't know if they are that dumb.

Kazakhstan uses cycling as a way to promote tourism.

I've watched about 100 times more pro cycling in the past year than the average American watches in their lifetime. At no time did I think 'Astana' and 'Visit' in the same sentence.


Who here would really know anything about Kazakhstan

You don't give us enough credit.

It does a very convincing third world impression however.

Speaking of which, did anyone here catch the Tour de Burkina Faso on Versus last month?

I think it's real easy to assume that companies 'leave' sponsorship because of drug scandals.

It doesnt need to be assumed, the companies have said, or at least clearly implied as much themselfs.

Who wants their brand associated with lying and cheating?

One of the most important things out there for a cycling company is to get your name out there. People are attracted to buying products that are used by their hero. It's almost a death wish for a bigger company to have no team at all using their product.

Kazakhstan uses cycling as a way to promote tourism. It's really not anymore expensive (actually even less sometimes) then a lot of other methods used to attract people.

Who here would really know anything about Kazakhstan if they weren't sponsoring a cycling team (some would, myself included as I enjoy politics and learning about other countries, but not most) ?

When you first look at it, the average person may see it as "Wow, a whole country sponsors a pro cycling team. They must really like cyclists. Let's go there for a vacation."

Kazakhstan is #1 exporter of potassium
All other countries have inferior postassium.
http://www.bloglifetime.com/images/blogs/5-2007/purchase-the-borat-book.jpg