Hi! This is actually my first post to these forums. I'm working on going carfree--my car is, I admit, still sitting in my parents' garage at the moment, but it IS listed on craigslist, and I haven't driven since October or driven regularly since August. It's going great for me! I have a pretty little bike and just got a set of panniers and an awesome rainjacket for Christmas!
My boyfriend, though, is very much not carfree--and you gotta pick your battles. However, the engine in his car just bit the dust, and rather than fixing it, it's probable that he will sell the whole car for whatever he can get and buy a new one. He wants a vintage Mini or British roadster or something, and while they are totally adorable and get okay or good gas mileage and all that, my understanding is that they have pretty bad emissions (and cars more than 30 years old don't have to pass emissions tests). I'm having trouble convincing him to care. Basically, two things matter to him in a car: 1. cute factor and 2. speed/vroom factor (I did point out to him that those old Minis aren't so much vroom vroom cars...)
So, I'm looking for some simple, unignorable stuff to tell or show him that might convince him that emissions (or lack thereof) really are important AND/OR that individuals can make a difference with individual choices and actions (not just regarding vehicle emissions). Nothing too heavy-handed that will just make him defensive. Humor definitely welcome! (And if you guys know where I could find actual emissions data for vintage cars, that would be awesome.)
Thanks! You guys are an inspiration. And happy holidays!
maddyfish
12-25-07, 04:41 PM
Nice thing about low e cars is that they usually also get good mileage. Most people won't complain about that.
Cyclaholic
12-25-07, 04:52 PM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
bhchdh
12-25-07, 06:44 PM
I'd have to agree that you should push the high MPG factor, the low emissions will be there.
KnhoJ
12-25-07, 06:55 PM
On one hand, vintage Britmobiles do have a reputation for not burning gasoline during a significant portion of their lives... They're perfect for someone who really likes working on cars as a hobby and has alternative methods of transportation.
On the other hand, modern catalytic convertors are cheap and quite unrestrictive. Pop in a generic universal model, and it'll eat a shocking portion of unburnt hydrocarbons, even on old carburated cars. Not to mention, it'll deodorize the exhaust. We're all getting spoiled with these new cars, old cars without catalytic convertors stink!
gerv
12-25-07, 08:27 PM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
This argument would certainly convince me. Hell, I'm pretty sure it would convince the President to sign up for Kyoto.
brunop
12-26-07, 06:52 AM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
in all seriousness, this will work.
brad06ag
12-26-07, 07:01 AM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
In all seriousness, this will not work. For smaller things, this works just fine on us. For things like this, that ultimatum would make many men go find sex elsewhere (i.e. breaking up with you and finding a better girl).
East Hill
12-26-07, 07:29 AM
On one hand, vintage Britmobiles do have a reputation for not burning gasoline during a significant portion of their lives... They're perfect for someone who really likes working on cars as a hobby and has alternative methods of transportation.
Now, even though some of my relatives spent their lives making automobiles (for Morris, if I remember correctly), I would have to say that this is true.
So, I would, in fact, encourage your boyfriend to purchase a fine vintage British made vehicle, because it will spend a good portion of it's time being repaired, and therefore, not be emitting anything :p .
Welcome to Bike Forums, by the way!
East Hill
Hobartlemagne
12-26-07, 07:50 AM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
Don't withhold sex- reward him with it. Once for every mile per gallon per month ought to do it.
The VW Jetta diesel gets 45mpg.
East Hill
12-26-07, 08:00 AM
Don't withhold sex- reward him with it. Once for every mile per gallon per month ought to do it.
The VW Jetta diesel gets 45mpg.
But he might run out of gas...;) .
East Hill
jcwitte
12-26-07, 08:49 AM
This link lists the most efficient cars and also lets you search by make, model, class, year, etc...
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml
stacia
12-26-07, 09:59 AM
Thanks for the suggestions!
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
What, and punish myself for his crime? :p
... modern catalytic convertors are cheap and quite unrestrictive...
Do you know if popping in a catalytic converter would take an old car all the way up to modern standards--or just most of the way?
DM4
12-26-07, 10:26 AM
No lowered emissions = no sex.... would definitely work on me ;)
It's like the Kyoto bedroom protocol :p
If I were to receive an ultimatum such as this you would soon find me with a new girlfriend and a new car.
I would recommend the carrot approach rather than the stick approach, something along the line of foregoing a Hummer for a hummer. The hummer would need to be administered periodically to be effective
maddyfish
12-26-07, 10:31 AM
Do you know if popping in a catalytic converter would take an old car all the way up to modern standards--or just most of the way?
Be very careful with this, most pre-cat con cars are not designed to have an extremely hot catalytic converter under the floor.
Kimmitt
12-26-07, 10:38 AM
Yeah, this isn't the place for that, but I'm certain that discussion groups surrounding the car he likes would have information regarding effective retrofits. Even if he's not getting all the way up to modern standards, the low mileage and such will probably make up for it. That seems like an effective compromise.
wahoonc
12-26-07, 11:16 AM
Do you know if popping in a catalytic converter would take an old car all the way up to modern standards--or just most of the way?
Depends on a lot of a factors. Better do some additional research. Cats are expensive and on the older cars (depending on how old) oil consumption may be a reality and will plug up a cat in a hurry. I also second the fact that many British cars will spend more time being worked on than being driven...been there done that. Also the old Mini's can be made to Rock and Roll (http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/austin-mini-cooper-rally-monte-carlo-1999/). Run a search string with Austin Mini and John Cooper and see what comes up;)
Aaron:)
darksiderising
12-26-07, 12:23 PM
But he might run out of gas...;) .
East Hill
I don't get it...
East Hill
12-26-07, 12:46 PM
If the Jetta gets 45 mpg, and he has sex each month as many times as the Jetta gets in mpg...
let's just say that I think Mr. East Hill would be fairly exhausted after a few months of that :D .
East Hill
darksiderising
12-26-07, 01:25 PM
Oh, right. I am thick.
TonyCtattoo
12-26-07, 01:30 PM
Hi! This is actually my first post to these forums. I'm working on going carfree--my car is, I admit, still sitting in my parents' garage at the moment, but it IS listed on craigslist, and I haven't driven since October or driven regularly since August. It's going great for me! I have a pretty little bike and just got a set of panniers and an awesome rainjacket for Christmas!
My boyfriend, though, is very much not carfree--and you gotta pick your battles. However, the engine in his car just bit the dust, and rather than fixing it, it's probable that he will sell the whole car for whatever he can get and buy a new one. He wants a vintage Mini or British roadster or something, and while they are totally adorable and get okay or good gas mileage and all that, my understanding is that they have pretty bad emissions (and cars more than 30 years old don't have to pass emissions tests). I'm having trouble convincing him to care. Basically, two things matter to him in a car: 1. cute factor and 2. speed/vroom factor (I did point out to him that those old Minis aren't so much vroom vroom cars...)
So, I'm looking for some simple, unignorable stuff to tell or show him that might convince him that emissions (or lack thereof) really are important AND/OR that individuals can make a difference with individual choices and actions (not just regarding vehicle emissions). Nothing too heavy-handed that will just make him defensive. Humor definitely welcome! (And if you guys know where I could find actual emissions data for vintage cars, that would be awesome.)
Thanks! You guys are an inspiration. And happy holidays!
just let him get the car he wants and worry about the things you do . you can make sugestions but leave controlling people to the politicians
KnhoJ
12-26-07, 07:15 PM
The generic catalytic convertors generally run around $60-90, depending on where you get it. They are heat shielded, and a decent exhaust shop won't have any trouble finding a place for it in the car that won't melt the carpet. Mostly what one of these would do is eat up the leftover hydrocarbons. It won't be quite as good as what you'd get from a new car, but it'll be a whole lot better! Wahoonc is right about the oil; if the car's leaving a trail of oil smoke, that'll plug up the convertor. Or if the fuel or ignition system is in really bad shape, huge amounts of unburnt hydrocarbons can burn out a convertor quickly. But as long as it's running halfway decently, it'll be fine. It's not unusual anymore to find convertors under all kinds of vintage cars that never came with them. A lot of collectors don't rate the stinky exhaust as "charming" anymore, and sometimes that's just what it takes to convince the wife to go for a ride in "that stinky old thing".
Sir Bikesalot
12-26-07, 11:56 PM
Don't try too hard to convince him; he probably knows all the arguments already. Just let him know you feel really strongly about it and let him do what he will. If he still goes ahead and gets his stinkmobile, then he obviously doesn't care what you think and/or is not willing to sacrifice for your happiness. (But don't tell him this last part beforehand, you'll be accused of being passive/aggressive, etc.)
Newspaperguy
12-27-07, 12:32 AM
If he still goes ahead and gets his stinkmobile, then he obviously doesn't care what you think and/or is not willing to sacrifice for your happiness.
Actually, if he's looking at a British import, he's already considering your concerns. These are small and light cars which are good on gas. If he only wanted an attractive car with a lot of horsepower and speed, he might consider a 1960s vintage American muscle car, which would have considerably worse fuel economy and by extension would produce more pollution as well. If he adds the catalytic converter, it will be much better.
acroy
12-27-07, 10:47 AM
I think go ahead & get a small, old, used British car. It will emit almost no emissions, because it will almost never run.
stevesurf
12-27-07, 11:31 AM
Don't withhold sex- reward him with it. Once for every mile per gallon per month ought to do it.
Great idea; instead of carbon credits, he gets sex credits :D
rickyaustin
12-28-07, 04:00 AM
Basically, two things matter to him in a car: 1. cute factor and 2. speed/vroom factor (I did point out to him that those old Minis aren't so much vroom vroom cars...)
You won't win the old Mini battle. They are famous for their vroom vroom. I haven't driven (6'5" and couldn't fit) but they are supposed to be one of the funnest cars to drive, ever.
Maybe if he's a wrench guy, he can put a newish honda motor in it. I believe I've seen this sort of thing done. It would give him alot more power, better reliability & of course, low emisions. Sort of a long-shot suggestion I know - but it is an option :)
Google magic revealed this:
If he has the car, and the motor, it's a $2500 kit to swap with this: http://www.minimania.com/ArticleV.cfm?DisplayID=1887
That article mentions this company: http://www.superfastminis.com/ worth checking out. Looks like they'll do the conversion, but for alot more $$$. Personally, I'd pay it, what a sweet machine that would be!!
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3788/1001214kp9.jpghttp://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6105/1001167xs6.jpg
rickyaustin
12-28-07, 04:18 AM
So, I'm looking for some simple, unignorable stuff to tell or show him that might convince him that emissions (or lack thereof) really are important AND/OR that individuals can make a difference with individual choices and actions (not just regarding vehicle emissions). Nothing too heavy-handed that will just make him defensive. Humor definitely welcome! (And if you guys know where I could find actual emissions data for vintage cars, that would be awesome.)
Thanks! You guys are an inspiration. And happy holidays!
I recently saw designer Bruce Mau speak. He is famous for his "Massive Change" manifesto, which is basically an effort to change the world for the better. He said something simple, that is incredibly true, while talking about this nation's addiction to cars.
People (as a whole, with some exceptions) will not change their behaviors because they are told something is bad. They do not want to sacrifice. The way to create positive change in them is to find a solution that solves the wants of the buyer, while still accomplishing what the designer set out to do in regards to the environment. You have to give them a "cooler" choice.
THis is mainly why people still buy many of the harmful things they do. They would be very unhappy without them. If we had something that made them happy, they would finally convert.
That was my line of thinking with the "VTEC Mini" suggestion :)
lyeinyoureye
12-28-07, 01:21 PM
I think go ahead & get a small, old, used British car. It will emit almost no emissions, because it will almost never run.Ha, brilliant. Just makes sure the BF gets a "project". :D
In any event, I don't think there's a need for pain in the ass engine swaps, when he can nab a common GM TBI setup, fab an adapter for the intake manifold, and run Megasquirt (http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=53706). More tunability, better mileage, lower emissions, etc... Weld a catalytic converter inline with the exhaust (no they won't "restrict" anything if they're the right size) and the car will likely have emissions comparable to something a few decades newer.
That being said, if he won't fix the car he has now, I wonder how enthusiastic he'll be about a much older car with the potential for many more problems.
becnal
12-29-07, 04:33 AM
Tell him to choose between a low emission car and a bicycle. He'll be glad to have the LE car.
If he says no, tell him to choose between life with you and life without
Boudicca
12-29-07, 07:50 AM
I think go ahead & get a small, old, used British car. It will emit almost no emissions, because it will almost never run.
A long, long time ago I had a boyfriend with a (then) 16-year-old Lotus Elan, which was his upgrade from a 10-year-old MG Midget, and I will vouch for that one. When it ran it was a beautiful, beautiful car, and really didn't use much gas, and it was fast and fun and easy to drive. But fact of the matter is that it usually didn't run.
El Julioso
12-29-07, 06:08 PM
First, congrats on going car free! Great feeling, eh? Hope you get lots of money from selling your car to buy bike stuff/other things, which makes giving up the car all the more satisfying.
As for your boyfriend's predicament - I hope he understands that any vintage British car will require nigh constant maintenance to keep it running. That means a big time investment and, if he isn't a very competent mechanic will all his own tools, a lot of $$$ as well. Does he want to just get rid of his current car because he didn't like it anyway, or because he can't be bothered to fix it? If the latter, I'd point out the reliability issues of older cars (especially British ones).
Oh, the stories I could tell about the old Austin Minis... a friend of mine in England has one. I went to visit him and his family one time, and he said he'd let me drive it around (this was when I was still a sports car nut - before I saw the light!). Soon before I was going to take it out for a spin, both front wheel bearings melted and seized... LOL. And this was after throttle/intake/exhaust/body issues. You know the Mini engines have their oil caps placed above an oil-soluble seal?
If he's looking for something fun, and you want to suggest something that's also low-emissions and high mileage, an early 1990s Honda Civic (the rounded ones) could be a good choice. These are generally considered to be the most desirable Civics by the car enthusiast community, as they were light/simple/still had the awesome double-wishbone suspension before Honda canned it for "family oriented" struts. I used to drive a 1992 Honda Civic VX hatchback, the slowest and most efficient model, which only had a 1.5L engine. Still, it got 55mpg, would go 170kph (a bit over 100mph - I hope that's fast enough!), handled as if it were on rails, and had a surprising amount of storage capacity, owing to the hatch.
If he really likes Minis, you could even suggest he look for a used "New Mini" (made by BMW). The non-supercharged ones are pretty efficient, and are definitely more reliable than the old Minis.
I suggest doing a search on these forums for cost of owning a car. There are some excellent threads in which posters with a fair bit of accounting knowledge explain how the cost of owning a car can amount to a number with 7 digits in 30-some years :eek: Pretty significant retirement savings there. As the great 20th century philosopher, Bon Scott of AC/DC, once said: MONEY TALKS!!!
And you're right - the car shopping doesn't need to be turned into a confrontation. Just try to help him find what's best for him. He may not realize it yet, but what's best for him probably isn't a stinkmobile ;)
coldfeet
12-30-07, 03:05 PM
How much money are we talking about? How many miles does he drive? If his "old" motor quit, its a good guess that any good, modern, car is going to feel much snappier. If you can afford new, try to get him to "just try" a Honda civic hybrid. they are plenty quick enough and they can probably outdrive most old brit stuff ( in the condition most old brit stuff is in these days) and the fuel economy can offset a lot of the extra purchase cost.