Road Bike Racing - Is road racing mostly for old guys now?

Here's the signup stats for the first race of the season here in NorCal (San Bruno hillclimb, jan 1):

Cat Field Limit
Pro Elite 1-2 Male 10 20
Elite 3 Male 11 20
Elite 4 Male 12 25
Elite 5 Male 15 40
Master 35+ Male 40 Field limit reached.
Master 45+ Male 40 Field limit reached.
Master 55+ Male 20 Field limit reached.

All us youngins are still hung over :D

All us youngins are still hung over :D

Youngin is not hung over! ;)

It's fun to race with geezers, they are nice and big to draft behind.

It's not a cheap sport. Having sufficient time and money to compete generally requires the resources of someone well established in other areas of their life. Or a sponsor of sorts. Besides, it's low impact so geezers on the ragged edge of humanity like PCad can do it everyday.

Plus the Kids are Wussy today.

Plus the Kids are Wussy today.

at least the ones that aren't in the military.

at least the ones that aren't in the military.

That's a low blow botto.

That's a low blow botto.

you're not a kid.

you're not a kid.

Neither are you.

Neither are you.

don't i know it.

I've noticed that when it comes to hilly races, the age group is older. I did a big hill race in September, over 100 entries, 1st place age 22, 2nd place age 35, 3rd place age 30, The next 7 guys were over 45.
I think young guys like to go fast but tend to blow the load on hills because thay do not have the experience to pace themselves.

at least the ones that aren't in the military.

Judging by the people I know who went into the Corps after graduation, our military has very low quality standards. Both in terms of physical fitness, and mental ability and toughness.

The two respectable guys of the lot said basic was a joke. One of them is no longer with us, the other just got back from his third tour in Iraq.

Military service might change a man, but it does not a hardass make.

I've noticed that when it comes to hilly races, the age group is older. I did a big hill race in September, over 100 entries, 1st place age 22, 2nd place age 35, 3rd place age 30, The next 7 guys were over 45.
I think young guys like to go fast but tend to blow the load on hills because thay do not have the experience to pace themselves.

I think you'd find the age of the average Cat1/2 race entrant to be below 30, regardless of race length, type or terrain.

Judging by the people I know who went into the Corps after graduation, our military has very low quality standards. Both in terms of physical fitness, and mental ability and toughness.

The two respectable guys of the lot said basic was a joke. One of them is no longer with us, the other just got back from his third tour in Iraq.

Military service might change a man, but it does not a hardass make.

No, no it doesn't. Performing well in combat usually does though. I know plenty of jackasses wastes of space (especially in the Army :p ) - but the vast majority of multi-tour vets are solid guys. Hence I believe herr botto's remark to be not too off the mark...

I think you'd find the age of the average Cat1/2 race entrant to be below 30, regardless of race length, type or terrain.

this is true. then again, a 35+ cat 1/2 would probably opt for the masters race anyway.

I think road cycling, or cycling, is the new golf amongst some of my young, affluent peers. I include myself in that, and I welcome it. It encourages fitness to a much greater degree than say, golf, and it also encourages thinking of cycling as a means of transportation rather than simply sport. As thin becomes a greater mark of affluence, expect cycling to become popular and upper-middle class.

I think road cycling, or cycling, is the new golf amongst some of my young, affluent peers. I include myself in that, and I welcome it. It encourages fitness to a much greater degree than say, golf, and it also encourages thinking of cycling as a means of transportation rather than simply sport. As thin becomes a greater mark of affluence, expect cycling to become popular and upper-middle class.

Cycling will never ever be the 'new golf'. It's simply not Wussy enough to ever attain that much popularity.

Face it. We live in a Wussy World.

this is true. then again, a 35+ cat 1/2 would probably opt for the masters race anyway.

True. Or both races.

I'm just trying to figure out why the Cat5 race has a field limit twice the size of the P/1/2 field limit, when a race like that will get blown up even more at the lower levels.

I think road cycling, or cycling, is the new golf amongst some of my young, affluent peers. I include myself in that, and I welcome it. It encourages fitness to a much greater degree than say, golf, and it also encourages thinking of cycling as a means of transportation rather than simply sport. As thin becomes a greater mark of affluence, expect cycling to become popular and upper-middle class.

You can have skinny, I'll take fast.

Cycling will never ever be the 'new golf'. It's simply not Wussy enough to ever attain that much popularity.

Face it. We live in a Wussy World.

Cycling will be, racing won't be.

I think road cycling, or cycling, is the new golf amongst some of my young, affluent peers. I include myself in that, and I welcome it. It encourages fitness to a much greater degree than say, golf, and it also encourages thinking of cycling as a means of transportation rather than simply sport. As thin becomes a greater mark of affluence, expect cycling to become popular and upper-middle class.

cycling, in the US, has almost always been the provenance of the affluent (or at the very least the middle class).

Cycling will be, racing won't be.

I'm not even talking about racing. I'm talking about cycling. There seem to be three types of cyclists I know:

• People who take up cycling, do if for 1-4 years and then stop

• People who take up cycling and stick with it for life as an activity/fitness pursuit

• People who take up cycling because they can't run anymore and get sucked into racing and keep riding competitively until they keel

I'm the latter, since 1990. Most people I know into cycling are the first category I mentioned. I have a neighbor who got into riding two years ago and sort of stopped. He sees me riding in the rain (and snow at times) all winter and marvels at this. I'm his 'hero' he tells me. Yeah, OK pal. Look, I can't stop. If I could, I would. I'm addicted to it. But I am in the minority from what I can tell. Along with most of the other lunatics present on BF.

Golf is easy. You can drink @ the bar afterwards. It's much more user friendly. Cycling is much harder on many levels. You have to love it more than most people will to put up with the considerable bullsiht, discomfort and risk to personal safety. More than the vast majority of our population will ever tolerate. If you don't believe this, check on the popularity of cycling in 5 years. Let me know if it has surpassed 5% of the participation in golf at that point.

Did I mention Golf is for Wussy yet? Well it is. Tiger Woods. Friggin Golf. God help us. What a Wussyfest.

Here's the signup stats for the first race of the season here in NorCal (San Bruno hillclimb, jan 1):

Cat Field Limit
Pro Elite 1-2 Male 10 20
Elite 3 Male 11 20
Elite 4 Male 12 25
Elite 5 Male 15 40
Master 35+ Male 40 Field limit reached.
Master 45+ Male 40 Field limit reached.
Master 55+ Male 20 Field limit reached.

Not to mention that many of those entered in the elite categories (around 40%) are 35+ & 45+.

Check out these demographics for Nor Cal/Nevada:

Cat Total under 35 35+ 45+ 55+
Cat 5 1117 388 729 363 89
Cat 4 men 1125 297 828 354 85
Cat 4 women 320 140 180 85 15
Cat 3 men 758 181 577 245 55
Cat 3 women 153 61 92 34 8
Cat 2 men 373 107 266 100 26
Cat 2 women 73 26 47 19 0
Cat 1 men 121 44 77 16 0
Cat 1 women 43 21 22 5 0
Juniors total 190
Junior Men 163
Junior Women 27

In silicon valley cycling is the new golf, especially among the venture capitalist set. I've been on more than one century where I've caught VC guys discussing their latest deals and had to listen to that stuff until the next climb. While the first thought is "oh no, now those jerks have invaded MY sport!" its actually good for cycling. They and the people who want to be like them spend a lot at the local bike shops, and there's now so many people out riding on the peninsula on sunny weekends that it looks like there is a century ride going on. The more people ride, the safer it is.

But while some of them ride a lot, those "new golfers" aren't racing. Thom Wiesel being the one exception I'm aware of.

Here's the NYtimes article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/fashion/sundaystyles/04SILICON.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1133871785-Z+obWu7+sy7PvibdEc6SAw

Here's the NYtimes article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/fashion/sundaystyles/04SILICON.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1133871785-Z+obWu7+sy7PvibdEc6SAw

More overblown than a Silicon Valley IPO.

On wall street, there are some very serious riders, but nowhere near the golf crowd. I'd recon 1 serious cyclist per 20 avid golfers.

On wall street, there are some very serious riders, but nowhere near the golf crowd. I'd recon 1 serious cyclist per 20 avid golfers.

correct.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/12/arts/sportspan.jpg

On wall street, there are some very serious riders, but nowhere near the golf crowd. I'd recon 1 serious cyclist per 20 avid golfers.

You must live in Silicon Valley. Here in the NY area it's more like 1:50.

You must live in Silicon Valley. Here in the NY area it's more like 1:50.
I am in nyc but I might be biased by the derivatives trading crowd - lots of sporty types here.

Ps.my particular desk is particularily biker-infested, starting with my boss.

I think you'd find the age of the average Cat1/2 race entrant to be below 30, regardless of race length, type or terrain.


Maybe average age of the race entrant, not necessarily average age of the top 10 finishers. In southern California, the SoCalCup is the yearlong points series and the older guys are cleaning up. In the Pro/1-2 category, the winner and two others in the top 10 overall were under 30. Three in the top 10 were 35+ with two of those being over 45. The remaining four were 30+. The two 45+ guys finished 2nd and 3rd overall.

I know a team based in San Antonio has had a really hard time building any squads that aren't masters. The club pres told me that there just isn't any young talent there.

In Austin, there's a pretty good spread, but just like most places, the "fast racer" Bell curve probably peaks around age 37.

I know a team based in San Antonio has had a really hard time building any squads that aren't masters. The club pres told me that there just isn't any young talent there.

In Austin, there's a pretty good spread, but just like most places, the "fast racer" Bell curve probably peaks around age 37.

It is a bummer. What I've found as an "older" racer is that the young guys (19-27) expect everything as soon as they upgrade to Cat. 2. I am running the 1-2 team for our club this year and I had a few guys expecting race entries, numerous kits and more than one complete bike. Some of these guys have little or no results past category 3. I guess I come from an age where you had to pay your dues before you got free bikes and race entries. It's not a surprise though since these guys see the decent cat. 1s their age getting picked up by the continental pro teams to meet the UCI age requirements. Most of the young guys opted not to race with us since we plan to stay local. That's fine we were already planning to put our efforts into developing the juniors.

I wonder if it's one of a number of things:

1. The guys who used to be strong pro/cat1 are now Cat 2s or 3s and racing Masters. In SoCal it's pretty crazy who you might race if you're in the 40-50 year old range, and they can probably place (or win) in an open Cat 1-2 race. They're strong, they have talent, and they think Masters racing is a lot easier than eeking out a living in Europe on the bike or something like that. Up here in the Northeast it's not as bad (at least my competitors weren't on the cover of Winning magazine) but you still get guys who've won Somerville (the main race, not a supporting one) or Fitchburg (ditto) or blah blah blah and now they're lining up for a Cat 3 race after they've won two Masters races - and they may win the Cat 3 race too.

2. Around here there's no clubs that actually teach their racers how to race. I can't think of one. Everyone is sort of self absorbed, trying to get better, joining teams for schwag or strong teammates (but not because the team actually puts on a race), etc. Everyone sort of forgets the 5s and 4s and even 3s. When I started racing there seemed to be a big network for helping racers, and that was before the internet (!). I think that because of this, the older guys, the ones who actually learned how to race, are able to use and abuse the younger clueless racers. One poor kid was in a crit last year, it was sadly hilarious. I was in a crit last year and kept going by this one kid, a Junior. He was having a hell of a time trying to hold a wheel - everyone would ride him right off the wheel he was on. Finally, exasperated, he said something to himself, something like "Why can't I hold a fricken wheel?". Or maybe it was "What the f* do I need to do to hold an effing wheel?!". You get the idea. Everyone around him sort of smiled and the kid slid backwards. He was strong but had no clue about holding a wheel (i.e keeping it, not just drafting), a basic skill for a racer. No, I didn't teach him anything.

3. Finally, as far as which fields fill up, the Masters races tend to be safer. Harder, yes, but safer. A lot of guys have family/mortgage/responsibilities, and it's simply not worth it to get tangled up for a dinky prime or a dinky prize list. The young'uns in the college or post-college-"what-should-I-do-with-my-life" phase of their life (I can say it, I did it for 15+ years), they aren't thinking about what happens if they don't make it through that tiny gap that will close in 0.002 seconds - it's worth trying. I can say that too because that's how I used to think. Given the choice between the "Crash 3s" and the Masters, any fit Master will chose the Masters. Since I'm not fit, I choose the 3s and take my chances.

4. When guys who have responsibilities, schedules dictated by outside forces (family etc), they pre-reg and pay by credit card. If it rains or the kids get sick or whatever they can afford to skip the race. When I was struggling financially and flying on the bike, I couldn't afford to do a shotgun registration thing where I register for any and all races. If I registered, I was racing. But I couldn't always afford to pre-reg, so I'd go early and hope I got in. Now it's no big deal. I register and if I don't feel like going, I don't go. Different world.

want to be strong enough to race Masters,
cdr

Some of the stuff being mentioned, particularly the "young kids that don't know how to ride/race" make me happy about my choice to join my new team.

The team I joined puts on 20+ races a year, about half of which are juniors and masters races. We also put on both an indoor and outdoor time trial series. We have 3 organized rides a week, two of which are focused on developing racers, regardless of age. Generally speaking, they are Cat3 and below with a volunteer "ride leader" of various riding ability. As the start of the ride is only about 20 minutes from my house by bike, I plan on heading out there and sharing what limited knowledge I have with the younger, and interested middle age guys who come out for the ride. I've found that age group tends to either be very enthusiastic about learning, or they're completely turned off to the idea of a 22 year old giving them advice.

And then, on the other group ride night of the week, I'll be driving about 20 minutes west of town for what is the hardest group ride in the Chicago area, in my experience, to have some Pro/1 boys teach me a thing or twenty. My main problem as a bike racer, as described by CDR, is that I have a problem holding a wheel. Well, specifically, holding a wheel in the last 3 laps or so leading up to the finish of a crit. I can roll through two-wide in a crit for two hours, string it out in a chase and do all of that, but unless I pop out on the outside, and can surf someone up to the front, I'm useless at the end of a race. I'm hoping that the guidance I recieve from teammates and guys on the rides will help me use my strengths to the best of my abilities. And that I can repay them when the road goes up.

Been said a few times but racing road bikes can be pretty expensive. When I first started racing (CAT 5 through 3 ) I was on a 1990 Cannondale w/6 speed with friction shifters.. Raced on this bike through 1995.... Everybody around me was on STI 8 speed, nice wheels, and had plenty of money to buy new gear every year. I remember several times where I slept in the car and had just enough gas money to make it to the race and back. I placed as well as every other local guy and won several races.

This time around ive got a lot more income to "throw" at this hobby. I know through past history that I can be competitive on equipment that most racers would snob on so at least this view keeps the spending in check. We need more coaches/teams dedicated to developing junior racers and let them know that you dont need a 4k bike and that 2k wheelset to be competitive.

Dead Dog Classic 2007 - two days, three races (RR Crit, TT) by category, but not by age (e.g. some elites may have been over 35). I had these figures on hand and am too lazy to dig out the actual ages. :o But you get the idea. FWIW, quite a disparity between men and women (at least in our race).

Men

Elite 191
Master 149
Total 340


Women

Elite 57
Master 13
Total 70

It's not a cheap sport. Having sufficient time and money to compete generally requires the resources of someone well established in other areas of their life.

+1

I am really concerned with the lack of availabilty of race worthy entry priced road bikes. And when i say entry priced, i mean what people who ask me about getting in to road cycling expect to pay for an entry level bike (<$600), not what bike companies charge for their entry level bikes.

It is very difficult, especially for young poeple with little means, to justify the purchase of a $1200 piece of equipment plus accessories just to see if they like the sport or not.

I understand that bike companies need to reap the higher profit margins available on higher end gear to stay in business, but raising the financial barrier to entry into the sport is very short sighted in my opinion.

(end rant)

For us old guys, we get off on racing. Racing is like sex. We put cream in our shorts. We lovingly caress our bikes. We go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with a grin on our faces and we take a nap afterwards.

For those young turks out there, sex is like sex. They use a different kind of cream. They lovingly caress an actual hottie. They go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with grins on their faces and take a nap afterwards. And then they get on their bikes only if they feel like it. But to them, it's definitely not like sex. Yet.

Bob

For us old guys, we get off on racing. Racing is like sex. We put cream in our shorts. We lovingly caress our bikes. We go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with a grin on our faces and we take a nap afterwards.

For those young turks out there, sex is like sex. They use a different kind of cream. They lovingly caress an actual hottie. They go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with grins on their faces and take a nap afterwards. And then they get on their bikes only if they feel like it. But to them, it's definitely not like sex. Yet.

Bob

how long have you been married?

how long have you been married?

Irrelevant.

;)

Bob

It is very difficult, especially for young poeple with little means, to justify the purchase of a $1200 piece of equipment plus accessories just to see if they like the sport or not.


I see lots of 20- something guys (and gals) buying expensive sport motorcycles. Your typical 600cc sportbike is $9k and insurance for those kids is going to cost half that each year. Yet there's a ready pool of buyers who don't seem to be lacking cash or financing.

It'd be easy to say that kids today aren't racing because they are "like wussy" but that's simplistic and probably wrong.

I see lots of 20- something guys (and gals) buying expensive sport motorcycles. Your typical 600cc sportbike is $9k and insurance for those kids is going to cost half that each year. Yet there's a ready pool of buyers who don't seem to be lacking cash or financing..

Yes, i have several friends who would fit in to that catagory. Some of them have considered doing some cycling as well. When they ask me how much my bike cost, their reply is usually something like this:
"$1800? Any bike i buy for $1800 better come with an engine!"

By the way, don't be too quick to assume that people with expensive toys have lots of money. There is equal odds that they over-extended their finances buying those toys.

Cycling will never ever be the 'new golf'. It's simply not Wussy enough to ever attain that much popularity.

Face it. We live in a Wussy World.

This is not a Wussy. It is Slipstream's muse.

http://plus4sgolf.com/sitebuilder/images/Terry_Knickers-244x371.jpg

I wonder if it's one of a number of things:

1. The guys who used to be strong pro/cat1 are now Cat 2s or 3s and racing Masters. ...

2. Around here there's no clubs that actually teach their racers how to race.



My opinion these two are related. Todays Master doesn't have the time to coach, still racing. There was a time when you hung them up, got fat, and helped out the younger riders.

My opinion these two are related. Todays Master doesn't have the time to coach, still racing. There was a time when you hung them up, got fat, and helped out the younger riders.

I didn't think of that. I tell my still fit friends that when they get older they'll either promote races or coach. I don't coach so I promote races. I try and coach racers, meaning I give them a pointer when they keep making the same mistakes at my races.

I'm working on the coaching bit though. It's really frustrating to see all the racers pounding their heads into the wall over and over again. Well, not if it helps me beat them. But in the races I watch, it's frustrating. So I have my project that I hope will help out some racers.

cdr

I can roll through two-wide in a crit for two hours, string it out in a chase and do all of that, but unless I pop out on the outside, and can surf someone up to the front, I'm useless at the end of a race.

This is slightly different from the poor kid in the crit, but I understand your point. Suddenly, it seems, the "riding near the front" idea collapses and you find yourself drifting backwards, fighting the whole way. I wish I was that strong again because if a race goes single file, I just grovel until I blow. My last race in 2007 I made it perhaps 10 laps before I was off the back. It sucked and I hated it but none of my tricks could keep me out of the wind. Usually I'm okay with hitting the wind for maybe 60-120 seconds in a one hour race. More than that and I'm in a whole lot of trouble. In this race, it had to be a good 15-20 seconds per lap and I got toasted.

I posted something in a pack riding thing. Lemme find it.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=374156
I explicitly stated my opinion on the only tactical skills being holding/taking a wheel. Everything else is related but not the same. If you can hold a wheel, protect it from others, you'll be good to go. And if you know how to move up (not a skill, it's only a tactic) and take wheels (this is a tactical skill), well, you'll be a lot better off in those last three laps.

Does this make sense?
cdr

This is slightly different from the poor kid in the crit, but I understand your point. Suddenly, it seems, the "riding near the front" idea collapses and you find yourself drifting backwards, fighting the whole way. I wish I was that strong again because if a race goes single file, I just grovel until I blow. My last race in 2007 I made it perhaps 10 laps before I was off the back. It sucked and I hated it but none of my tricks could keep me out of the wind. Usually I'm okay with hitting the wind for maybe 60-120 seconds in a one hour race. More than that and I'm in a whole lot of trouble. In this race, it had to be a good 15-20 seconds per lap and I got toasted.

I posted something in a pack riding thing. Lemme find it.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=374156
I explicitly stated my opinion on the only tactical skills being holding/taking a wheel. Everything else is related but not the same. If you can hold a wheel, protect it from others, you'll be good to go. And if you know how to move up (not a skill, it's only a tactic) and take wheels (this is a tactical skill), well, you'll be a lot better off in those last three laps.

Does this make sense?
cdr

Well, oddly enough, I think I'll have an easier time of holding my place in the P/1/2, simply because of the greater organization and higher pace at the end of a race. If it's strung out nice and fast, no pace changes and I'm in a decent position, I think I'd be less likely to get swamped.

Or so I hope. I'll keep those ideas in mind, though. It's going to be a hard spring, that's for sure.

For us old guys, we get off on racing. Racing is like sex. We put cream in our shorts. We lovingly caress our bikes. We go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with a grin on our faces and we take a nap afterwards.

For those young turks out there, sex is like sex. They use a different kind of cream. They lovingly caress an actual hottie. They go like hell and sweat and pant and finish strong with grins on their faces and take a nap afterwards. And then they get on their bikes only if they feel like it. But to them, it's definitely not like sex. Yet.

Bob


Speak for yourself. My bike is my second-favorite ride.

FWIW here is the breakdown of number of riders by Cat and age in OBRA (Oregon Bike Racing Assoc). The breakdown by age is for all riders. Some of those may race only Mountain, cross or track and not road. Aged 30-39 is by far the biggest age bracket.

> Road Catgories
> I 62
> II 218
> III 574
> IV 822
> V 824
> total 2500 >
>
> Jr (18 and under) 279
> Senior (19-29) 630
> Master 30-39 1276
> Master 40-49 898
> Master 50+ 346
> no age listed 19
> Women 566

Well, oddly enough, I think I'll have an easier time of holding my place in the P/1/2, simply because of the greater organization and higher pace at the end of a race. If it's strung out nice and fast, no pace changes and I'm in a decent position, I think I'd be less likely to get swamped.

Or so I hope. I'll keep those ideas in mind, though. It's going to be a hard spring, that's for sure.

You're on the right track here. Things are strung out a little faster (intentionally), a little smoother. If you can handle the pace holding your wheel really is easier in P/1/2 races. The big IF is highlighted. Been single file (race was heavy on the P/1 and light on the 2) and every ounce I had just to make up a wheel gap out of a turn.:) Have fun with it!