Folding Bikes - anyone toured on a folding bike?

any good? thinking about this as it would be really useful for chucking on a plane/train....

I've seen people touring on Bromptons, but they don't carry that much...

Moulton is the machine to use; they are a "takedown" rather than folding bike. The frame is very light, stiff and efficient and well proven for reliability. The full suspension system is well engineered and makes the small-wheeled design comfortable and capable of riding rough trails. People have toured extensively on Moultons all over the world.

thanks both - I'll look into a moulton I think....depends on how small it packs up I guess

Alex, I've never done any touring on folding bikes, but right now I am getting a bike friday new world tourist, and I want to use that as my bike for touring and that kind of stuff...I haven't gotten the bike yet, but it's coming I think in the next month or so, so I know that moulton is a competitor to them, but you might want to check in Bike friday's also..

Benjamin

What about a bike with S&S couplings? They would make the bike pack small enough for airline travel without the addtional expense.

S&S resource page with lots of info and links. (http://www.sandsmachine.com/)

I've ridden a Bike Friday NWT for 6 years now.
I play music for a living and end up doing a lot of flying for 1-2 week dates in Europe and North America. I take the Friday with me and try to do 3 day mini tours when out of the country. Beats the heck out of the hotel room.

I can't say I'd pick the bike friday as an expedition machine but for what they bill it for it works wonderfully. Using the suit case to ship is handy and he conversion to trailer realy works quite well. Again, I don't think this would hold up to extended touring.

Great commuter bike as well. I got mine with the sachs hub and never experienced a problem. The brakes were cheesy but I just replaced with some Avids. Customer support was top notch.
craig

I toured across the US on a Bike Friday New World Tourist the summer of 1995, following the Trans America trail east to west. And, I even dragged along the suitcase trailer! So it can definitely be done, although in retrospect I think I would mail home the suitcase and just use panniers, or a BOB if you really like trailers.

One fun aspect to the Bike Friday is the number of people you meet who are interested in the bike--one guy even offered to trade me his motorcycle for it! I did find that the tires wore out quickly though, and since they aren't readily available I had to carry my own. I think they have sturdier tires now--at that time the selection was limited. I found out about the tire wear issue when I was out on the road, and I will say that customer service from the BF folks was great--very fast, and willing to mail out general delivery, etc.

I have had a Bike Friday since Jan. 1993 and have ridden it 8,700 miles including the Blue Ridge Parkway, the Natchez Trace, and SF to LA, with panniers and handlebar bag but not camping gear. It's been a great bike. I know of people who have ridden BF's from the North Slope of Alaska to San Diego.

check the Gaerlan custom cycles site. :rolleyes:They have folding bike accessories and even thier own travel bike called the go travel.

any good? thinking about this as it would be really useful for chucking on a plane/train....

I've done both long and short trips on my Bike Friday Air Glide. I rode across the US in the summer of 2002 (journal at http://denise2002xc.crazyguyonabike.com), and I've also toured Hawaii (journal at http://denise2003hawaii.crazyguyonabike.com) and Ireland (journal at http://denise2003ireland.crazyguyonabike.com) on this bike.

No compromises here, the bike performed wonderfully. I used the suitcase trailer on all 3 trips, and I also used very lightly loaded rear panniers on my cross country trip (to hold my stove, fuel, and food - didn't want those odors in my tent, sleeping bag, and clothing).

I haven't toured on my NWT Bikefriday, but on the Bike friday web page "Yak" letters you will find many that have.. Glad to see some of the bike friday people on here, but your names are all coded here, me to. keep peddlin

I definitely liked touring on my Bike Friday. I had a blast, and I'll be touring again next year on mine. It was definitely great to be able to fold that sucker up and take it just about anywhere.

Koffee

I toured across the US on a Bike Friday New World Tourist the summer of 1995, following the Trans America trail east to west. And, I even dragged along the suitcase trailer! So it can definitely be done, although in retrospect I think I would mail home the suitcase and just use panniers, or a BOB if you really like trailers.

One fun aspect to the Bike Friday is the number of people you meet who are interested in the bike--one guy even offered to trade me his motorcycle for it! I did find that the tires wore out quickly though, and since they aren't readily available I had to carry my own. I think they have sturdier tires now--at that time the selection was limited. I found out about the tire wear issue when I was out on the road, and I will say that customer service from the BF folks was great--very fast, and willing to mail out general delivery, etc.

That's the weakness of the 20' inch wheel. The rear tire wears out fast and the best touring bike tires are made for 26' and 700 cc wheels.

Moulton is the machine to use; they are a "takedown" rather than folding bike. The frame is very light, stiff and efficient and well proven for reliability. The full suspension system is well engineered and makes the small-wheeled design comfortable and capable of riding rough trails. People have toured extensively on Moultons all over the world.

The Moulton frame was designed with touring in mind. Look at the rear and it was made to hold luggage. Enough said.

What about a bike with S&S couplings? They would make the bike pack small enough for airline travel without the addtional expense.

S&S resource page with lots of info and links. (http://www.sandsmachine.com/)

Ritchey has a road frame built with these couplings built in. You still have to have the added expense of buying a hard case large enought to fit the wheels and the frame.

That's the weakness of the 20' inch wheel. The rear tire wears out fast and the best touring bike tires are made for 26' and 700 cc wheels. Check out the schwalbe tires. It might occur that 20 inch tires have strengths too!
if you have sufficient clearance you can get tires at many places if you have to till you can find something better. 406mm tires are available at shops specializing in bmx and even wal mart & Meijers etc and probably at european equivalents to them.

Check out the schwalbe tires. It might occur that 20 inch tires have strengths too!
if you have sufficient clearance you can get tires at many places if you have to till you can find something better. 406mm tires are available at shops specializing in bmx and even wal mart & Meijers etc and probably at european equivalents to them.

The Schwalbe is the exception and it is probably the only touring tire for the 20 inch folder. The only strength of the smaller wheel folder is the fact that it won't get out of true. There is no need to get 36 spokes like a traditional tourer.

The problem with BMX tires is trying to put them on and the slugglish performance they provide.

All I use is the Schwalbe tire. My Michelin Pro lights didn't last as long and wasn't as sturdy as the Schwalbe.

I haven't had to even change the inner tube once yet!

Koffee

Steve I never said Bmx tires were great for touring, but in a pinch a Bmx tire is infinitely superior to riding on a rim.

Hi there!

How comfortable are folders if riding several miles (10+) a day? Perhaps for long-distance rides/tours the addition of a suspension seat post, a Brooks saddle, a suspension fork or suspension front hub, a multi-position handlebars, and/or wider tires is needed?

Thanks!

Javier
Woodbridge, VA

Whoa! That's a lot. The Bike Friday Pocket Rocket doesn't have a lot of that stuff you mentioned, and I could do 60- 80 km in a day and still be ok. Perhaps if you were doing a lot of offroad riding, it would be necessary, but I don't think for the average tour a lot of that stuff would be necessary.

Koffee

I agree with Koffee - a well-made folding bike can be just as comfortable as a diamond-framed bike for touring. I have 2 Bike Fridays - a Pocket Rocket that I have set up as a road bike, and an Air Glide that I have set up for touring. I also have a diamond-framed touring bike, and I don't see any difference between the touring bikes from a comfort or efficiency standpoint. One thing that you have to remember is that although the wheels on a folding bike are small, the chain rings are larger, so you can actually have the same gear ratios with both types of bikes. I've put in some long mileage on these bikes too - on my cross-country trip back in 2002 my mileage ranged from 50 to 80 miles a day.

Ritchey has a road frame built with these couplings built in. You still have to have the added expense of buying a hard case large enought to fit the wheels and the frame.

Just a minor clarification. Ritchey may offer a model with SandS couplings, but the Ritchey Breakaway uses a completely different proprietary system. The take down is not really a coupling, but the way the frame is made from the ground up.

I just acquired an sns coupled tandem. It requires two big 26x26x10 soft cases to carry though I can squeeze it into one case if need be. I imagine a single would require only one case. Bike fridays would be considerably smaller to carry.

Who makes your tandem, dood? And do you have a picture?

Koffee

Regarding touring with a folder....
I did quite a bit of Hostel touring a couple of years ago in the UK with a Birdy Blue, two front small panniers and a rear carrier. I had no problems with it as the ride was excellent and it carried the gear with no problems. Suspension does help though!
If you're talking of a tent and the works I don't know yet but I will be doing a trip soon with the new Dahon speed TR and a Hilleberg Akto tent. Probably only a 35 to 40 mile a day but for a week or more and see how it all goes.
I'll write after that, may be doing it in December for the heck of it! :eek:

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Dahon's Speed TR...
I've had mine for about 6 months now and done some quite nice rides up and down the California coast... I'll think you'll find for the price and the comfort, it is a nice alternative to the usuals.

http://www.dahon.com/speedtr.htm

Cheers,
S.

Check out the thread entitled "If you had 800 to 1000 dollars, what would you get..." on page one of the folders section... it also has some info on touring characteristics of small-wheeled bikes.
The faster wear rate is noticeable (but still not a big deal) with 20" tires; with similar tread composition & depth, a smaller tire will wear faster than a larger tire because it's rotating more times over any given distance.
We've gotten excellent service with the Continental Top Touring 2000 tire in 700c & 20".

Among my too many bikes I have (1) a Dean El Diente 700c Ti set up with S&S BTCs and (2) a DT FS. If my touring route will be 4 days or more, esp. if the route will involve Forest Service roads or worse, I pack the Dean. I drilled the S&S hardcase to fit on a BOB trailer for open jaw routes where I pull a trailer, but usually I will ground ship the hardcase to my destination and use panniers en route. For less than 4 days, esp. for 1 to 2 days in different cities, I take the DT FS.

Why the 4 day threshold? Building the Dean up, and tearing it down and packing is no easy task. I've never had the packed Dean opened by TSA. I'm probably lucky, but I have a hunch they know how difficult it would be to repack.

IMO:

Packable Folders (with preferably 20 inch wheels) are way nicer for touring than larger wheeled bikes if you are doing multi mode travelling (putting bike on cars, bus, planes, walking with the bike etc) and for me personally nicer for any riding, period. The ride need not be compromised by any means. In fact for the price of a real good yet custom Bike Friday you will be very hard pressed to find any large wheeled custom touring bike with the same quality and features...

For any longer distance tour on any bike somewhat fat tires and a (sprung) Brooks may be a very good idea so you are comfortable.

IMO once again, the following folder machines are the best for touring:

Bike Friday is probably best all around. Custom fit and components, still fairly affordable, some very nice add ons, pity about the slightly compromised packing/fold.
Don't get it if you want a bike that you will later use loads on buses and such.

On the other end of the scale: Downtube. Great value. With a few quite minor key upgrades it will allow you to tour for under 350 to 500 Dollars. Good fold. Great company as well.

In between would be the aformentioned Dahon. A pretty good choice too i think. However some non standardization may be it's achilles heel but i am not sure if this is true for the current version of this model. It sucks to be stranded on tour because some bike company decided to make things propietory. A few other Dahon models could be suitable as well.

Less likely choices:

Moulton. Expensive and not custom (or is this a mistake on my part) excellent rigidity and performance. Severely compromised fold... In other words i'd pass myself. Too much nice bike can be had for the money if one looks elsewhere. If one buys a Moulton i'd say definately stick with the 20 inch rather than the 16 inch models.

Brompton. Best fold all around. Non standardization, quite expensive. Somewhat compromised ride. Excellent luggage system. 16 inch wheels,.. not so great. Still if you are planning on doing tons of multi mode stuff or even hitching rides with your folder this one may be the ticket.
This bike would need some key upgrades to be 'tour worthy', almost certainly the drive train and especially the brakes would have to be upgraded or ordered 'a la carte' from the manufacturer when buying the new machine.

GoBike. Great fold, great performance, lots of oddball but high quality components, if something essential (finally) goes while on tour you are in a bad way. Very theft prone i think, hard to come by... Not cheap. If it had standardized components and better support/availability this would probably be the 'holy grail.

Gaerlan. Good bike, crap fold. Not so cheap.

@v1nce,

You forgot to mention (Xoootr) Swift ;)

Aside from Continental's *Travel* Contact, there's absolutely no shortage of good touring tires for Bike Fridays.

Some 20" (406) tire choices (http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/viewCat_h.asp?idCategory=115)

Continental "Top Touring" and Schwalbe Marathons are available and what I use. I also know of people that have used the Kenda Kwest and Primo Comet.

As for Bike Friday's suitability for touring: If my New World Tourists weren't worthy of expedition style touring, I wouldn't own them. Bike Friday has many models to choose from. Not all are touring specific and some are in the light-load touring range. However, NWTs and Air Glides (and some others) are purpose built for carrying the same heavy loads that I've carried on my 26" and 700c based custom tourers. Front and rear rack attach points, front and rear fender mounting points (separate from the rack eyelets), triple water bottle mounts and touring level components.

Here's a photo of two Bike Friday's being used they way they were intended to be:

http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/image/56880066.jpg

Ebay is a pretty good place to find a good Bike Friday for touring use. There's nothing listing right now but I recently won an auction for a NWT with hardly a mile on it that came with fenders, the packable trailer and the travel case; all for $995.




The Schwalbe is the exception and it is probably the only touring tire for the 20 inch folder. The only strength of the smaller wheel folder is the fact that it won't get out of true. There is no need to get 36 spokes like a traditional tourer.

Damn, i knew i had forgotten one, the Xootr Swift probably belongs somewhere between BF and DT. Neither expensive or cheap, excellent strength and rigidity the standard components are adequate for touring if you aren't very demanding. Light. The multi mode thing is once again a bit sub standard, the Xootr does not fold or seperate as well as i would like it to, but it is feasible to use for sure.

Considering the stiff frame and Alu i would definately add a Sprung Brooks and maybe some Big Apples were i to tour on this bike. If you wanted the least work, good performance and neither spend a lot or little this bike would probably be just the ticket.

Touring on a folding bike? I think it is hard to say which folding bike is best for Touring since there are different types of touring. Week long, month long, year long also some people like to live out of hotels and motels, sometime you can camp but eat out everyday and sometimes you have to be self sufficient and bring food and water for many days at a time. Will you be traveling to third world countries? How many times will you be getting on and off planes and will you start and end at the same place so you can leave your travel box or case.

I am a folding bike dealer so I have access to just about any bike I want. So, which folding bike should I bring? If I focus on the comfort of riding and range of gears and accessories available I would definitely take along my Bike Friday. However on my trip to Hawaii Since I will not be doing long distance and since I will be getting on and off planes every 7 days or so, I figure something more compact would be better. Brompton is by far the best folding bike in terms of commuting goes. But, I really want to see what it can do on a short touring trip.

On this month long trip in Hawaii I stayed in campsites, Youth hostels, friend’s house as well as 5 star hotels and even rented a car for a few days.

My Brompton the M6R, you can order this bike at any Brompton dealer. M type handlebar, standard 6 speed with a standard 50T chain ring. Rack and E-Z wheel, Touring Front Pannier and Mount, Schwalbe Marathon Kevlar Tires and Dual-Pivot back & front brakes. ($1100 without Bag&Mount or $1250 with) The other thing I did to this bike was adding a wireless cycling computer, bar ends, new grips, brake lever & cables and ISM saddle. I also used the Ortlied X-Tremer XXL waterproof bag $110 http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=25&cid=2
This is a great bag to keep everything Dry. I did encounter many days of rain in Hawaii where this came in handy. The Two boxes that I used to transport on the plane can fit inside this bag to keep dry and give the bag structural support as well. Also I can put this bag on my back since it has a shoulder strap and can carry my front bag on my left hand and roll or carry my folding bike on the left hand so, no need to worry about leaving any bags un attended in case you travel solo.

Flights within USA normally you have to paid $80 each way and inter Island flights in Hawaii are $25 each way. So, by using a folding bike I saved $260 on this trip (Maui, Big Island, Kauai and Oahu). Also if the counter person ask you “what is in the box?” I would recommend saying anything other than a bike. Since some may still charge you the fee if they go by the book. I usually tell them it is a baby carriage.

Pros: Transition time luggage pickup to riding off: 20 minutes.
Negatives: 2 broken back spokes. I weight 160 lb, Bag with tent, sleeping bag, mat and clothing 30 lb plus front bag about 15 lb with water snack & Maps. Although I made it around the Big Island and even the very steep part of Wailuku in Maui on this bike but it almost killed me. The Ride was ok since I am 5’8” and was only on my bike around 30 to 60 miles a day. But, better climbing gears a must for Hawaii.

The Brompton also came extremely handy when I rented a car for a few days since I could avoid the expensive parking ($15) rates at Waikiki Hotels by parking a few blocks away on streets and ride my bike back and roll it thru the lobby of the hotel.

If I do this trip again I would add a Swiss Mountain Drive ($617) but this will give me a total of 12 gears.http://www.schlumpf.ch/md_engl.htm and rebuilt my back wheel with better spokes.

I can't seem to add too many picture to this site. If anyone can teach me how to add photos I will try to attach some.

I hope to add more useful folding & touring info on my website in the future. www.bfold.com

Re: at airport check-in
"What's in the box?"
"Bicycle parts."

That answer has worked 100% of the time to avoid baggage fees, in every country, whether it's my Dean in an S&S hardcase or softcase, or a folder in box.

I did an unsupported camping tour of Wisconsin last summer on my virtually unmodified Dahon Speed P8 (+mini bar-ends and clipless pedals.) It was a short trip; just five days of riding but the mileages were on the high side of typical: 55 to 80 miles/day. I honestly forgot by noon of the first day that I was on a folder. The benefits of a folding tourer are considerable. It fits in a standard, albeit large, suitcase with 15-20 minutes of assembly/disassembly. I fabricated a breakdown trailer to carry the suitcase when I get to my destination. The frame and tongue fit it the case with the bike - the trailer wheels go in the duffel with the camping gear. Assemble the bike and trailer/suitcase, put the camping gear in the trailer/suitcase, and Bob's your uncle, you're riding away from the airport. It's a great way to do a quick but distant tour. I would pack up my old loaded Lotus prairie schooner for a transcontinental attempt, though.

As for the 20" wheel debate, my Speed P8 came stock with Schwalbe Big Apples which were superb on the crushed limestone rail-trails and gave a soft but moderately quick feel to the on-road portion. I haven't ridden enough miles to notice premature wear on the rear.

@toodman Could you please post pix or a link to pix of your trailer? I infer that you used a two-wheeled trailer frame, which significantly reduces the sensitivity to weight distribution in a suitcase trailer compared to one wheel trailer frames.

Pictures! Pictures! :)

OK - Here is a hastily prepared web site with especially cryptic construction notes and photos of my take-apart suitcase trailer :
http://home.comcast.net/~eichin/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
(My apologies for the rudimentary site.)

Excellent! I am digging all that. Hmm too bad one needs to recycle parts from a Burley Solo trailer though... But there kits around aren't there?

I am thinking that with wood and standard wheels from a hardware store one could make an even simpler/cheaper variety. You'd need Alu/Steel for the Swing arm/attachment of course.

@toodman Thanks for the pix. How about pix (1) with the case off the frame, and (2) a close up of the C hitch, please.

@toodman Thanks for the pix. How about pix (1) with the case off the frame, and (2) a close up of the C hitch, please.

And don't forget to include a scantly dressed model pointing to your case and hitch. :D

let see if this works?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BromptonTalk/spnew/view/3d95?i=18

I ride an S&S coupled, custom bike. Have two actually and my wife rides a retro-fitted coupled mountain bike. But I could just as well ride a Bike Friday. There are very passionate folks on both sides of this issue. But, look at the travel cases. They are remarkably similar in size. For me the bottom line is: can I check my bike, in a hard case, with no baggage up charge AND will it fit into the trunk of the little taxi at my destination. For me the rest of the argument is kind of academic.

I really like my 700c wheeled S&S coupled bikes. I like that all the parts are off the shelf components. If I so desire, I can build up my travel bike as a single speed, or change some other aspect, without running into a problem with a proprietary part. (And this is not aimed at Bike Fridays, but rather some other 20" wheeled bikes with which I have experience.) It is easy to get caught up in trying to find the perfect bike. Well, there is no such thing. I used to laugh about owning my car and making payments on my bikes. Even having the two custom built bikes, I’m fighting the urge to buy a Swift Folder.

Whatever you decide, it will be an awesome bike and you will have a great time riding. My two cents is this: you can over analyze this. Step back mentally every little bit and look at the big picture. For me, the Swift folder would be excellent for urban riding. Fly into Cabo, or San Francisco, unfold it in the hotel room and ride to the store or the pub. But I need my “ big” bike for serious any mileage or lightly loaded touring. On those trips I would definitely take the 700c wheeled cross bike or the 29er mountain bike. And I rationalize the cost of the custom bikes by noting that I ride then almost every day. I suppose I might achieve this with a folder, but I ride in some pretty harsh winter conditions here in Alaska and I don’t think 20” wheels would suit. Also, on various forums you can find people debating the merits of folding versus S&S disassembly. Well, whatever. Once you have done it a few times, the time and effort is not significantly different.

So, I ramble. My take is: if you gotta do it with one bike and it has to fit in the closet when you are not riding, buy the folder. Otherwise, go with a coupled fill-size ride. Consider having an existing frame retro-fitted to keep the cost down. Look at the S&S website http://www.sandsmachine.com/. I totally recommend Bilenky Cycle Works http://bilenky.com/ for both custom builds and retrofits. I’ve had them do both.

Don't rule the Swift out for touring. I have enjoyed mine a lot touring in Europe with it. It has happens to be a great commuter. The Swift and the Bike Friday tend to stand at the top in terms of all around bicycle excellence in the 20" wheel size. I routinely would bike 50-70 miles a day on my Swift while in Europe. The bike could easily do more (so could I) but the problem was there were so many things I wanted to stop and see. It fit into my suitcase with not to much work and it was light enough that I didn't get penalized for baggage overage charges.

As for trailers you could always buy the Bike Friday trailer and use it as the suitcase it is and then convert it to a trailer to tow. Not cheap and you could replicate it or do what toodmad did.


@Bop - you might be how well the 20" Big Apple tires I put on my Swift act as Tundra tires too. You would be surprised where I have taken my Swift already. It has been to Siberia, a lot of Europe, Canada, Boundary Water area of Minnesota and Canada. It is like an SUV of bikes (in the good sense) when off road and on the road it becomes a sports car. I live in Minnesnowtah and I can relate to harsh winters since we seem to have it 5 months of the year. Our roads really are terrible too despite serious efforts by the DOT.

I thought about S&S couplers but I fly a lot and the weight restrictions are getting serious and they are really watching size as well. I can easily fit any of my folders in a suitcase that has less than 62 linear inches. Europe is often worse than the US about size and weight.

Almost forgot to mention. I can't see the need for using an external frame for the trailer. So I am in the process of making a trailer where the suitcase itself is the primary structure like a monocoque car frame. I will just affix the axle via QR mechanism to the bottom and attach a tow bar to the front the same way. I little reinforcement inside the suitcase should make it all pretty rugged and keep the "trailer" weight low. I will make a an axle tube that will span the entire width of the case but segment it so that it comes apart and stows inside of the suitcase for travel. I am seriously considering making it so I can mount the suitcase either vertically or horizontally depending on how I need to travel. In a city the vertical method would be preferable to squeeze between cars and peds but less stable. I am also working on setting up lights on it as well.

Almost forgot to mention. I can't see the need for using an external frame for the trailer. So I am in the process of making a trailer where the suitcase itself is the primary structure like a monocoque car frame. I will just affix the axle via QR mechanism to the bottom and attach a tow bar to the front the same way. I little reinforcement inside the suitcase should make it all pretty rugged and keep the "trailer" weight low. I will make a an axle tube that will span the entire width of the case but segment it so that it comes apart and stows inside of the suitcase for travel. I am seriously considering making it so I can mount the suitcase either vertically or horizontally depending on how I need to travel. In a city the vertical method would be preferable to squeeze between cars and peds but less stable. I am also working on setting up lights on it as well.

Isn't that what BF for the most part is offering. Being a lazy guy, I don't like to tinker too much.

I was thinking even less than their approach and going with lighter wheels. On approach was to fit the wheel right into the side of the case iteself with only a stub axle on a QR fitting like an air chuck for pneumatic tools.

I was thinking even less than their approach and going with lighter wheels. On approach was to fit the wheel right into the side of the case iteself with only a stub axle on a QR fitting like an air chuck for pneumatic tools.

You'll need a very stiff suitcase to do that. The ABS (or whatever) plastic on my older Samsonite doesn't come anywhere close to being stiff enough. You want the wheel alignment to be absolutely true and unflexing in all axes, and I haven't seen a commercial case that can do that with what you're proposing. I think you'll find that the wheels need a single common axle. You could try running an axle through the case, but it would take up valuable space and not save that much weight. Another thing to consider is what the TSA is gonna do with a suitcase with all those holes/fittings/attachements/etc. sticking out of it. I dread the day they actually remove my folded bike and try to get it back in the suitcase, so I shoot for the look of the ubiquitous virtually-unmodified Samsonite. IMNSHO, My homebuilt frame is adequate but could certainly be minimized in size and weight. Smaller wheels will be my next mod, but I may someday try to duplicate the BF T-shape frame. The elegance of the BF trailer frame beats all.

I understand where you are coming from. I have given up on TSA guys already. They have taken my bike out a few times and on 2 of the times it has been damaged because the clueless monkeys that work in some areas couldn't seem to understand the giant photo and instructions taped to the inside lid of the suitcase. They replaced my wheels incorrectly one time and destroyed a wheel. The other time they put it back together wrong and broke spokes. I carefully pack everything and tie it all together with a bungee cords so it can all be lifted out as one unit.

As for the trailer I won't have that much of a load in it and if I stand it vertically it won't put much torsional load on the suitcase and it will easily support it with a small axle spanning the bottom. I would prefer taller and narrower than laying down flat. It is much easier through cities that way. On the open road between cities it is preferable the other way. I have a suitcase I can use as a guinea pig. My plan is to pop rivet a mounting plate on the inside and outside that will form the area where I plan to mount the stub axle if I decide to lay the case down rather than vertically.

I have an idea for my Briggs and Riley that is a combo soft/hard that where I can't use anything like the BF design. I also want to use smaller wheels. I have also found that the Brompton doesn't like hard cases that much as it has a few points that force you to really tweak the hard case to make it fit and I don't like the risk that it can force the case open. I am also becoming reluctant to use the F'lite as it doesn't have TSA approved locks so I have to leave it unlocked and stuff has been vanishing.

So far the BOB Yak in a duffel has worked about the best for me but not the lightest way to go but the most versatile.