Touring - Racing with a Touring bike

Hey all,

I realize that Touring bikes are not designed for racing but I'm just curious here. How would my Cannondale T800 compare with a road bike of the same price in terms of speed and efficiency on a clean asphalt surface. I ask because I bought the bike planning to use it for touring but it turns out I'm really just using it as a commuter.

And while we're considering that comparison, try comparing the T800 with a mountain bike. In my mind, a mountain bike would perform abysmally as a commuter on asphalt. If the Touring bike isn't as good a performer as a road bike then at least I can take solace in the fact that it is way way way better as a commuter than a mountain bike. right? Of course I know that in terms of efficiency on a flat surface a mountain bike would be worse than the touring and the touring would be worse than a road bike, but I'm wondering about levels of magnitude here. How much better is the T800 than a mountain bike, and how much less able is it than a road bike?

cheers

I have touring, road and mountain bikes and the weight, tire size and geometry certainly have an effect on speed.

On my 17 lb road bike with 25 tires I can do a "known" ride in my area of 42km at an average speed of 30km/hr while on the 28 lb steel touring bike with 32 tires I would average the ride at 22-24 km/hr. If I run my 25 lb mtb bike with 2" knobbies @ say 55psi, I will be slower than the touring bike but if I run it with my lightweight rims and 1 1/4 slicks at 90 psi, I will be faster than the touring bike.

I'm rather curious as well.

My present ride:

Jamis Coda hybrid/crossbike.
Weight is ~26.5lbs. or so.
37c Conti tires that actually measure 32c.
Tires pumped to 70psi.
Average speeds: 15mph

I just bought some new Contis to replace the ones on there now. The new ones spec at 32c, but I suspect they'll measure closer to 28c once installed. I'm hoping to be able to increase my average speed by at least 1mph with the new tires.

My NEW bike (within the next month or so) will be a Jamis Aurora touring bike;

Traditional road geometry diamond frame, as opposed to the Coda's squashed diamond.
Weight is about the same as the Aurora...~27lbs.
Bike comes with Vittoria Zaffiro 28c tires, but haven't checked the "real" size yet. I'm hoping to be able to average closer to 16-17mph when using the Aurora as a road bike, which is what I'll be using it for most of the time.

Btw, the new Contis take a higher pressure of 85-90psi, but I'm not sure what the Vittoria tires take...probably closer to 70psi.

Like I said, I really hope the Aurora will do 1-2 mph better than the Coda, but it may turn out that Coda will be just as fast when I put on the new 32c Contis....

"Road bikes vs. Tourers For Road Use"

I'll have to google that one and see what I can learn.

For the same amount of effort on flat pavement and wearing similar clothing I'm guesstimating that I get:

17.25 lb. Felt F50 with 18/20h Mavic Ksyrium Elites and 23c Michelin Pro Races @ 110psi = 21 mph
17.5 lb. Felt F50 with 24/28h Mavic Cosmos and 23c Michelin Carbons @ 105psi = 20 mph

22.5 lb. Soma Double Cross with 28/32h Ultegra Open Pros and 25c Michelin Carbons @ 95psi = 19 mph
23 lb. Soma Double Cross with 28/32h Ultegra Open Pros and 32c Randonneur Pros @ 80psi = 18 mph
31 lb. Soma Double Cross with Open Pros, Randonneur Pros, and Commuting Load in Panniers = 17 mph

27 lb. Jamis Aurora with 36h Ultegra Bontrager Mavericks and 37c Randonneur Pros @ 70psi = 17 mph
45 lb. Jamis Aurora with Mavericks, Randonneur Pros, and Groceries Bags in Panniers = 15 mph

23 lb. GT Zaskar with 32h XTR DT Revo Mavic X517's and 1.85 Tioga Factory XC Slicks @ 65psi = 18 mph
24.5 lb. GT Zaskar with 32h XT Sun 0-degree XC's and 2.1 Panaracer Fire XC Pros @ 45psi = 16 mph

26.5 lb. GT Backwoods with 32h LX WTB Dual Duty's and 1.95 WTB Moto Raptors @ 45psi = 16 mph
30 lb. GT Backwoods with 32h Alivio Weinmann ZAC19's and 1.9 IRC Studded Mudmads @ 35psi = 14 mph

If you put drop bars on the Coda and improved the aerodynamics, I don't think it and the Aurora would differ by more than 0.5 mph. Size and weight mean something but the suppleness of the tire, bead material, and rim weight often mean just as much. The absence/presence of big knobs mean a lot more as the IRC Mudmads make me feel like I'm riding a massage chair on the road. I also measured the Vittoria Zaffiro 700x28c Tires at 26mm wide before I swapped them out for something better suited to carrying heavy loads. My 25c Michelin Carbons measure the same.

My mistake on the Aurora....the 08' models come with 32c Vittoria Zaffiro, not the 28c that comes on the 07' models.

What's funny is that I used to think the 37c on my Coda was nice and comfy, but just a bit too wide for my light-purpose usage. Now that I discovered that they're really only 32c, I've sorta been thrown for a loop. I'm guessing that a true 28c will be just what I really need...nice and light, but not too terribly thin either. We'll see.

Touring bikes on the road (leaving out cornering and other aspects of racing) are slower primarly for two reasons. The first is the rolling resistence of the tires. The greatest factor in that is the thread as well as the tire design/casing. The other factor is touring setups don't put you into as aerodynamic position. You are more exposed and the position creates more frontail area.

I used to commute on a mountain bike. On a 17-20 mile route, I was more than 2 mph slower than a road bike. I put on "slick" narrower tires which helped. But the fact I couldn't get down to a "flater" position always made me slower.

I realize that Touring bikes are not designed for racing but I'm just curious here. How would my Cannondale T800 compare with a road bike of the same price in terms of speed and efficiency on a clean asphalt surface. I ask because I bought the bike planning to use it for touring but it turns out I'm really just using it as a commuter.
The T800 should work pretty well as a commuting bike (as you probably already know). :D There's quite a bit of overlap in terms of what works well for commuting as for touring.

However, racing is a totally different story than either commuting or touring. if you are racing on a stock Cdale T800, in many cases you will have your hat handed to you. Frame weight might seem like a factor, but it really isn't; rotating parts yes, but not as much as most people believe. Touring wheels and tires are heavy, wide, and non-aero; the rider position is upright; the geometry is designed for stability.

Racing bikes, in contrast, are set up for speed, responsive handling, skinny tires, aero wheels, and aero rider positions.

There are some "all-rounder" bikes which could be usable for both racing and touring, if you use different wheelsets. However, they will be adequate at the tasks, as opposed to optimized for either touring/commuting or racing.



And while we're considering that comparison, try comparing the T800 with a mountain bike. In my mind, a mountain bike would perform abysmally as a commuter on asphalt.
It really depends on the MTB. Most 80s MTB's were made, to the best of my knowledge, more like what we now call a "hybrid." So put some narrow slicks on it and you're probably fine.

Frame weight might seem like a factor, but it really isn't; rotating parts yes, but not as much as most people believe.

I notice a big difference is speed going from my 32 pound touring bike to my 23 pound road bike. I expect it'll be even bigger when I get my ~16 lb road bike built. Bike weight matters when the differences are big. Especially, of course, on climbs.