Electric Bikes - How would you Improve on Veloteq E-Bikes?

Now I have seen that there is a little hostile additude here against Veloteq E-Bikes ( and please do NOT say that they are not E-Bikes in this thread!!!!! ) and I was wondering.....how would YOU go and improve on these? I plan to notify Jim Wood on this topic and see what he has to say about your ideas so keep it clean and polite please and thank you.

Please state the model that you are talking about as well if you own one. here is an example....and a true one at that.

Model: Veloteq Cavalier

Personally I think that Veloteq needs to come up with a better placement for the pedals as they scratch the ground when you turn. Also is it next to impossible to actually USE the pedals on a wide chassis like the Cavalier has. Just try....you will get a "waddling" effect and a pair of very tired legs. LOL!!!!!

Also we NEED a more powerful motor for hills. I have asked Veloteq about the new Powereagle model that they have hoping to get one for my Caviler but unfortunately it will not fit at all due to a "Chassis Redesign" for the motor.

Also a new and more powerful technology battery at a reasonable price. It MUST be backwards compatable with existing Veloteq Models.

LED Headlights/Tailights. Why? They use a LOT less energy and last longer and are a lot brighter.



Now please list your ideas...and KEEP IT CLEAN!

20 inch rims would be a start. that would get rid of the pedal problems.:D

20 inch rims would be a start. that would get rid of the pedal problems.:D

Well, it would get rid of the scraping, but not the stance issues.. Another thing though, is that 20 inch rims would likely help stabilize the bike during pedaling, which would be another bonus.

I can't really think of many 16 inch wheeled bikes out there. The ones that come to mind are the Dahon Curve bikes. From riding one around in a bike store for a minute or two, they seemed to handle decently, not as nice as their slightly larger cousins. However, the Curve doesn't weigh 165lbs, a Veloteq does. I'm not sure if larger wheels would help the Veloteq models or not, but presumably they would, as there would be a greater gyroscopic effect to help keep the bike stable at low (pedaling) speeds. This would require a substantial amount of modification though, as to retain the same center of gravity, the chassis would need to remain at the same height (wheels would need to sink farther into chassis, requiring considerable changes)

There would be two other ways to help with the pedals striking the ground, shorter crank arms, and bringing them closer together. Considering that they need to be brought closer together *anyways*, this is a sure and simple way to improve on both problems. Shortening the crank arms could only complicate things further.

All I can comment with on battery technology, is that you get what you pay for. There aren't really any gentle jumps between chemistries, each one is a pretty big leap.

On LED's, I absolutely love LED tail lights. The PB superflash and knog frogs are tops. On headlights, I simply don't find them bright enough for anyone who plans on riding at a decent speed.

Bigger wheels would not greatly effect gyroscopic forces which are negligible especially as stated at low speed, with suspension it has been argued that they are faster (check out recumbent forums).
Small wheels also allow a lower C of G helping both low speed handling and off the bike handling.(my real world testing also suggests it helps high speed handling as well.)
Led lights are great if done properly and as noted need less power.
More power will mean more regulation as well, but yeah more power is always better especially if where you live has lots of 20% hills. :)

You can get an idea of Veloteq 2008 improvments here. www.valuride.com (http://www.valuride.com)
I have peddled every Veloteq model and although they are not primary they are capable of propeling and help alot on large hills. The law is 500W continuous power, The name of the game is efficiency not raw power. That is why scooter style bikes can be classed as ebikes.

i love the new motor with gearbox thay have coming out. http://www.valuride.com/gt-motor_specifications.htm

only problem i see with this is making it easy to replace with a faster brushed motor hehehehe ;)

On LED's, I absolutely love LED tail lights. The PB superflash and knog frogs are tops. On headlights, I simply don't find them bright enough for anyone who plans on riding at a decent speed.


I am not sure if I understand this exactly. Do you agree that LEDS would be better? Or the other way around.

I am not sure if I understand this exactly. Do you agree that LEDS would be better? Or the other way around.

LED tail lights are more than enough, as all that they need to do is allow people to see you, which some of the better models like the forementioned PB superflash taillight do really quite well.

Headlights however, don't have enough oomph. I've tried a great deal of them, including the MEC shark one, PB super spot headlight, and other similar 1W systems. Typically, LED lighting doesn't go any higher than that, but its not enough at 35kph.

http://planetbike.com/page/learn/lightfinder/

Here's a sort of example. Now, the technology is picking up from what I can understand and may soon be bright enough for adequate use, but i've yet to find one that really is currently. The cheapest lighting systems that really perform well enough at that speed are ones like the higher powered halogen systems (see the PB 5000x on that page for an idea)

But some cars even have LED headlights now.........

But some cars even have LED headlights now.........

The few cars that do are typically sporting 100s of LED's per headlight. They're some of the examples of upcoming technology that I mentioned before, but they're certainly not without issues either. LEDs also have light decaying issues, they tend to lose potency over a long period of time (think SLA battery wear out)

*For now*, HID and Halogen are better options for seeing, LED a better option for being seen.

Maybe if companies were to start coming out with larger LED configurations it might work out, but whats out there right now just doesn't impress me. I've got one of those MEC shark ones lying around, its only good for seeing the shape of the trail/road ahead of you at about 25kph, not for actually making out those tree roots jutting out of the trail.

Bigger wheels would not greatly effect gyroscopic forces which are negligible especially as stated at low speed, with suspension it has been argued that they are faster (check out recumbent forums).
Small wheels also allow a lower C of G helping both low speed handling and off the bike handling.(my real world testing also suggests it helps high speed handling as well.)
Led lights are great if done properly and as noted need less power.
More power will mean more regulation as well, but yeah more power is always better especially if where you live has lots of 20% hills. :)

Negligible is hardly the term i'd use to descripe the gyroscopic force of a wheel. Take a 26" wheel in your hands and start it spinning, then change the plane its moving on.. The whole wheel will resist your movements quite readily. It is this very motion which tends to keep you upright without effort.

As to whether or not larger wheels would actually help, i'm starting to rethink that, largely due to the fact that whether they would help or not, introducing them would be a pain.

Smaller wheels are faster, yes and no. Faster off the start, typically. However, worse on tracking and they suffer greater penalties from road irregularities.

Vehicles are typically designed to work around lowering the center of gravity when larger wheels are used by simply lowering the chassis farther to compensate. This, in Veloteq's case though, would mean a lot of redesign work. Another obstacle to overcome would be that suddenly the motors would provide a greater top speed, but would be *even worse* on the hills, and they'd need to be using a different motor configuration as well as a result. In this case, while it might have been neat to see at the start, its likely impractical to change now.

Nice points.

Any more ideas there guys????????

Abneycat, have a look at some research on bikes not forum chatter, my statement about gyroscopic force is correct.
Try your wheel spinning exercise with a 16" or even a 12" wheel (I have had folders with both) the gyroscopic force could not keep a bike and rider upright, what about the sinclair A-bike 6" wheels but it is still ridable.

If you could ask for a re-design, I have considered cutting mine in half and streching the frame to make it more like a foot forward motorbike or semi recumbent and fitting a full multiple gear train and comfortable to use pedals.

what about the sinclair A-bike 6" wheels but it is still ridable.

Larger wheels do typically make for a better ride, but I also understand where you're coming from. That force does not so much keep you upright outright, as it does smooth out the movements.

As for the A-bike, its hardly what i'd call rideable, or practical. The Strida is a much better example in that particular style, I think. Someday I can forsee the need to own a folder, but I want a Dahon Mu SL or Speed TR

BOTH of you have valid points.

Any more ideas?

BOTH of you have valid points.

Any more ideas?

Well, I did another round of shopping for lights for myself again, and I *did* find some good LED powered units. When I completely denounced LEDs last time, i'd honestly completely forgotten about the Dinotte lights that i'd looked at, which were actually quite good. That said, decent LED systems look to run $150US+, and the high powered ones like the Dinotte's last hours instead of days. All LEDs I can think of still suffer from light degredation over time.

So I don't know how you feel about that much for a light, but they're out there.

hmm....thank you for investigating that for me as I did not know about the degradtion issues.

My Hub Motor Challenger Powered Out After Charging.found Wires Loose Inside Loop Connectors Connecting Wires To The Batteries.soldered All To Secure,good Preventative Maintenance.disconnect Before Soldering.the Ride Is Kind Of Unusual,super Nice On Average Roads And Very Harsh On Semi-rough.don't Want To Reduce Tire Pressure Too Much To Keep Handling Good.suggestions?any Body Disconnect The Single Blue Or Yellow Wire=more Speed.

Veloteq bikes would get more interest from me if they were more on the "lightweight and designed for people who want to pedal" side of things. Small wheels sound good to me. LED lights, yes. (By the way there are 3 watt LEDs headlights out there, maybe 5watt too).

I'd make them more like bicycles. I saw someone peddling one the other day and I laughed outloud.

Soaking them all in gasoline and lighting a match would be a good start.

I actually talked to an owner of one of these 'bikes' recently. I've had my share of dislikes for the gendre, but I thought I'd talk one-on-one to an owner to see what their thought process is.

This guy bought the bike last summer for about $1200 (about a years worth of transit). He was not a bike rider but someone who was attracted to the fact that it was a cheap scooter. He said he initially liked the fact that he could plug it in instead of buying gas. He was unhappy with the claims the seller made about the range. He said that without pedalling, and as we know pedalling is just about impossible with these 'bikes', he got about 10 kms before the battery slowed him down to the point he couldn't get up rises in the road. Rises, not hills.

He also complained about the number of re-charges his SLA battery took before he had to pay for a new one (he said it was another $500). He says there are a number of cheap gas powered scooters coming out of China these days and he's going to buy one and dump his electric scooter on craigslist.

Are you looking for a cheap e-scooter?

Oh, and by the way, he compalined about how the bike community accepted him. He said people laughed, they told him to get off bike paths and just treated him with distain.

thats about what i paid for mine, and i got the same laughing and people yelling out there windows passing by.
i also found it to small and hard on the back.

gota love a simple bicycle with a hubmotor way better ride:thumb:.

I actually talked to an owner of one of these 'bikes' recently. I've had my share of dislikes for the gendre, but I thought I'd talk one-on-one to an owner to see what their thought process is.

This guy bought the bike last summer for about $1200 (about a years worth of transit). He was not a bike rider but someone who was attracted to the fact that it was a cheap scooter. He said he initially liked the fact that he could plug it in instead of buying gas. He was unhappy with the claims the seller made about the range. He said that without pedalling, and as we know pedalling is just about impossible with these 'bikes', he got about 10 kms before the battery slowed him down to the point he couldn't get up rises in the road. Rises, not hills.

He also complained about the number of re-charges his SLA battery took before he had to pay for a new one (he said it was another $500). He says there are a number of cheap gas powered scooters coming out of China these days and he's going to buy one and dump his electric scooter on craigslist.

Are you looking for a cheap e-scooter?

Oh, and by the way, he compalined about how the bike community accepted him. He said people laughed, they told him to get off bike paths and just treated him with distain.

I don't believe a word that comes out of your keyboard....Batteries are between $250.00 and $300.00 for Veloteqs, first....the whole E-Bike Community would have to disagree because even a 14 amp hour bike will give you at least 30 with hills and wind to boot...the laughing from windows is also in your mind because in 2 years no one has laughed and many have even pulled over to ask where I got it... You have to make things up to prove YOUR point.
Stokell, you are a knocker...that;s all and nothing you say any more matters...I have listened to you guys knock pedestrians and automobiles as well on the thread...I bet your teacher wrote "does not play well with others"

I don't believe a word that comes out of your keyboard....Batteries are between $250.00 and $300.00 for Veloteqs, first....the whole E-Bike Community would have to disagree because even a 14 amp hour bike will give you at least 30 with hills and wind to boot...the laughing from windows is also in your mind because in 2 years no one has laughed and many have even pulled over to ask where I got it... You have to make things up to prove YOUR point.
Stokell, you are a knocker...that;s all and nothing you say any more matters...I have listened to you guys knock pedestrians and automobiles as well on the thread...I bet your teacher wrote "does not play well with others"

Bike Forum rules do not allow for personal attacks against other members. You may not agree with me, but I have as much right as you to post, and you may notice that I don't attack other members. Please keep this in mind with future posts.

My Apologies...'The How would you Improve on Veloteq Bike" thread was meant to bring Veloteq Owners together to talk about positve changes, and instead attracts both you and Auto Worker who have absolutely no interest in this area at all...You both see the word Veloteq or Scooter Style and there you both are again.
With comments like "soak them in gasoline" and hearsay slander against a brand name I question your intent.
Why are you and Auto Worker here to begin with? Why are you not spending more time in another section of the bike forum offering positive comments. I think it is apparent why you are both here..Don't You?

After All...We have the same goal "one fewer car" we don't knock your choice of e-bike...

DEWDAD:

Why don't you come clean, and tell everyone the name, address and phone number of your business? Perhaps add a little flashing banner to the end of every post? It's obvious that the only reason you are here is to shill you e-scooters.

You try to come across as such a sanctimonious tree-hugging do-gooder, concerned for the rights of the elderly and disabled who can't/won't ride a regular e-bike, all in the name of the environment.

Well, I, and many others can see through your facade. Your only concern here is to promote e-scooters to increase your sales and profits. You have never once refuted any of our legitimate arguments against e-scooters, but instead appeal to emotions and sympathy: "How would you feel if......What if......I feel safer.....Blah, blah, blah..............................................................".

Go shill your rediculous e-scoooters somewhere else. This is a BICYCLE FORUM! Your posts are beginning to smell like stale spam.:mad:

Why are you and Auto Worker here to begin with? Why are you not spending more time in another section of the bike forum offering positive comments. I think it is apparent why you are both here. Don't You?
.

The forum name is Electric Bikes, not Electric Scooters. I own two electric bikes, so in fact I might ask you that question.

If I was hiding that fact, wouldn't I use a different name than dewdad as my sign-in "name"....you guys are real good sleuths...LOL
I promote the use of scooter style bikes on this thread because I believe in them...and that is the same reason I got involved in them...some people choose careers because they like the career not just because they get free dental....and a pension....

and as well since you are such a clever detective you know we carry open frame e-bikes as well as scooter style bicycle..but I do promote the use of scooter style because I prefer them....
E-bikes represent about 2% of my income...My "other" business is an established business of 30 years....
This is just a passion business....

...some people choose careers because they like the career not just because they get free dental....and a pension....

Nice jab, dewdad.

I happen to love my job; like I said before, I'm an industrial maintenance electrician, with 32 years seniority. When things on the line break, they call me, I fix it. Kinda like being a detective.... ..what's the problem, what caused it, how do I fix it. ......lots of time to myself, waiting for the next call......kinda like being a fireman. Guess I have the best of a lot of worlds. The free dental and pension, well, like I said, I guess I've got it pretty good.

I get to ride my bikes to work every day to the plant that spits out 1500 cars a day, six days a week! And I always get the parking spot right next to the door! Life is good.:)

I like my e-bike for all the same reasons, so really it boils down to whether they should be in the bike lane or on the road...I think if we all get along with each other, in the near future because of the need, the city will build and designate more bike lanes for all of us. The need has to be there first before they will, and if we all work together it has a better chance of happening. In my travels overseas it is obvious that some countries are onto this with physically separated bike lanes...Side walk, bike lane, parked cars, then traffic. I have seen dividers achieve the same result....Studies have shown that alot of the dangers associated with bicycles are 1. lack of lighting for nightime operation and 2. riders unpredictability because of their manouverabilty...(zig zagging through traffic) Scooter style e-bikes have great lighting and are more predictable in their travels...My Opinion....

DigiKid...sorry if your thread got off topic....I enjoy these threads because it gives me the customer input on how to improve our product and always pass it along to the right people....

74438

The forum name is Electric Bikes, not Electric Scooters. I own two electric bikes, so in fact I might ask you that question.

) bears a label affixed by the manufacturer in compliance with the definition referred to in clause (a). O. Reg. 473/06, s. 1 (1).

Last time I checked this label is affixed to my bike depicting it to be a "power assisted bicycle" by law.
Since my bike has this label and is recognized by this law, and a scooter is defined below...well then I guess I am allowed to be on the bike forum as well idefending the use of power assited bicyles of all kinds...

scooter
Noun
1. a child's small cycle which is ridden by pushing the ground with one foot
2. a light motorcycle with a small engine

"How would you Improve on Veloteq E-Bikes?"

Well, I'd either make it into a properly powered scooter, or a decent electric bike. There is no in between. It is too heavy, short ranged, and un-pedal-able to be a proper bicycle. It is too slow, and underpowered to be a proper scooter.
So make up your mind what you want, either a scooter, or a bike.

Dewdad- Are these scooters considered legal as bicycles in Alberta?

Maddyfish....No Alberta has not yet adopted this environmentally sustainable form of transportation, yet....However the law here does... which is all that counts for me....It is by law a power assisted bicycle...The definition of a scooter is a "gas powered engine" or a "kids toy"....The trouble some people have is that they have a hard time comprehending the simplest change...It is a new form of electric bicycle that has existed for some time overseas and in BC. It is only new here as of October 4th 2006 when they were first brought out. I saw these in Europe years before they came here and then again in BC five years ago....Take off the cosmetic fairings and they comply 100% to the letter of the law...If I were to pack down an openframe bike with lots of saddlebags and cargo bins it would be similar.
Should we get 250 pound people off bicycles as well, since you have issues with weight and kinetic energy?

P.S. The "Bi" part of bike means "two" referring to the number of wheels...

We could possibly use The scooter type e-bike in alberta as a moped? Provided it met the minimum requirement for that Catagory. Maybe that is the bracket they should be operating in after all? Their purpose would seem to be more a commuter vehicle than made for cruising down bike and hiking trails?My use for a bicycle is more to get to work than recreation one of them would suit me well! I think they would be safer in traffic too than some of the Frankinstein electric conversions I've seen !
Ed Service

"Should we get 250 pound people off bicycles as well, since you have issues with weight and kinetic energy?"

Now you understand! It takes years(maybe not for some, but alot of seat time either way) of practice and training for a 250 pound person to get to where they can run 25+ sustained on flat ground. During that time, they learn bike control, braking, and handling.
Anybody can get onto a motor vehicle and go 25 right now, skipping the experience gained over years of training, and riding. That is one reason motor vehicles should be licensed.

"The definition of a scooter is a "gas powered engine""
You know well, that functionally there is little difference between a 50cc gas scooter, and an electric scooter. If a gas powered scooter that will go 25mph is to be licensed, then an electric scooter of the same capabilities should be as well. Likely any loophole that allows these to go un-licensed will be closed up once they beign to be more popular.
My city/county in the past did not require registration of 80cc or less vehicles, and 30mph or less vehicles. Since the gas crunch these have become more popular and the county and city both are working to address these vehicles.

Further to my last post, We could then just leave the pedals and chain off and cut the pretense? Save a little weight and maybe add another Battery? Shouldn't ANY vehicle that is operating on the street with other vehicles really be licensed and/or at least insured?
Ed Service

We could possibly use The scooter type e-bike in alberta as a moped? Provided it met the minimum requirement for that Catagory.

This is the type of vehicle these most resemble, and likely will end up being classed with these.

"This is the type of vehicle these most resemble, and likely will end up being classed with these."

Good thing they didn't make it look like rocket ship...otherwise one would need a pilots licence...
The Department of Transportion is interested in the specs of the bike not what it looks like...
In my business travels around the world, there is no doubt in my mind that the mentality in Ontario
is as conservative as it gets...no wonder BC had these things 5 years before us...

Further to my last post, We could then just leave the pedals and chain off and cut the pretense? Save a little weight and maybe add another Battery? Shouldn't ANY vehicle that is operating on the street with other vehicles really be licensed and/or at least insured?
Ed Service

The DOT deemed e-bikes not to be a motor vehicle because 32 km per hour can be attained by a healthy individual. The same healthy individual exerts the equivalent of 500 watts in energy output...Therefore it really doesn't matter what is propelling the bike as long as it is 32 km per hour or under...Why shouldn't a 55 year old person be able to "keep up" with a young healthy cyclist...It is a shame that youth is wasted on the young already. Those that oppose really don't get it. One day when they are older or not as fit they will...no I changed my mind...they will never get it....there is no pretense...they are new to peoples way of thinking....visit France or Amsterdam or China or BC or somewhere...

I don't know why I bother, but here goes.

Why would people on this forum trash Veloteq? If you don't like the idea of a street-legal electric scooter then you don't have to read this thread.

It is a bike and it is electric. This is BikeForums' Electric Bike section. It sure seems like a Veloteq discussion belongs here.

You guys who complain that these bikes are too heavy and too hard to peddle: Would you say the same thing about a Harley Davidson or a Corvette? They are much heavier and much harder to peddle... they don't even have pedals at all! So what is wrong with a Veloteq that uses peddles in an ingenious way to put electric bikes on the road in many places where other types of electric bikes are illegal?

Let's face it, the Veloteq is a great way to cut down on oil consumption, reduce air pollution, and have fun on your commute to work. Who cares if it isn't a bicycle that gives you a workout along the way? Most people in North America use a car to go to and from work, and they aren't getting workouts either. Besides, scooters are becoming fashonable - real "chick magnets". ESPECIALLY electric scooters. You can't take that new friend you just met at Starbucks home on the back of your hub motor equipped mountain bike.

So let's quit trashing a style of electric bike just because it isn't the style that YOU want to ride, and just encourage anyone willing to leave the car at home and eCommute.

I don't know why I bother, but here goes.

Why would people on this forum trash Veloteq? If you don't like the idea of a street-legal electric scooter then you don't have to read this thread.

It is a bike and it is electric. This is BikeForums' Electric Bike section. It sure seems like a Veloteq discussion belongs here.

You guys who complain that these bikes are too heavy and too hard to peddle: Would you say the same thing about a Harley Davidson or a Corvette? They are much heavier and much harder to peddle... they don't even have pedals at all! So what is wrong with a Veloteq that uses peddles in an ingenious way to put electric bikes on the road in many places where other types of electric bikes are illegal?

Let's face it, the Veloteq is a great way to cut down on oil consumption, reduce air pollution, and have fun on your commute to work. Who cares if it isn't a bicycle that gives you a workout along the way? Most people in North America use a car to go to and from work, and they aren't getting workouts either. Besides, scooters are becoming fashonable - real "chick magnets". ESPECIALLY electric scooters. You can't take that new friend you just met at Starbucks home on the back of your hub motor equipped mountain bike.

So let's quit trashing a style of electric bike just because it isn't the style that YOU want to ride, and just encourage anyone willing to leave the car at home and eCommute.

Excellent...another man with vison is amongst us......cutting down on oil comsumption, reducing air pollution and having fun on your commute to work....fortunately the masses agree...I do presentations at major companies on behalf of e-bikes of all kinds and out of the 60 people at each of these presentations there are 59 that love it....but there is always one "knocker"....there has to be....Heavan and Hell...LOL