Road Cycling - Do Bianchi bikes have toeclip overlap?

My frame size is 48-49. I struggle with foot overlap with the front wheel. I know lots of bikes have this and lots of people learn to ride with it....but I don't like it. I've heard that Bianchi's 49 frames don't have this....probably due in part to their 76 degree downtube. Can anyone verify or reccomend a bike w/o this problem? Thanks very much.
Steve

almost aby bike under 51cm will have toe overlap. the biachis do not have a 76 degree downtube no bike does. 75.5-76 degree seat tube angles are not that uncommon in a small frame. in fact, a steeper seat-tube angle [classic, relaxed geometries have seat tube angles of 73.5-75 degrees] would probably aggravate the problem rather than relieve it. besides, the key metrics, i think would be head tube angle and for rake rather than seat tube angle.

finally, toe overlap should not be a problem. if you are turning your handlebars so much that you are in danger of hitting a toe in aturn, then you are turning the handlebars too much. learn to countersteer and use your body to turn.

Toe clip overlap in small frames is only present because the bikes have large wheels annd long cranks. If you take a small frame and fit a 26" wheel (650c or MTB), and short cranks (160-165mm), the problem dissapears.
TCO is a problem if the bike is used for touring or commuting, where low-speed manouvres are needed.

I ride a 52cm and I have toe overlap on two of my bikes, one is a track bike so I can't stop pedaling even while turning. And this has never been a problem. Only time i even notice it is there, is If I'm sitting at a light and turning the wheel.

Originally posted by smoore
.....learn to ride with it....but I don't like it...... So does toe overlap hinder your normal riding in any way to a point where it becomes annoying? The only time I'm conscience of a possible toe contact is when I'm making a very slow tight U turn....but you can easily position your crank accordingly without even thinking.

George!

Velocipedo, I mispoke (mis-typed) I meant 76 degree seat tube...which the Bianchi does indeed have. I rode for years on a SR400 Cannondale 50cm. No overlap becuase of a very long top tube and 45cm stem. That's how they came in 1985. But it sure wasn't optimum for handling.

I realize I don't have to do figure eights in a parking lot, but sometimes I do have to do a U turn in a road and maybe have to cut it short or speed up becuse of a car. It's at those times I have overlap. And shoot....maybe I want to do figure 8s. :)

The overlap on my custom Ritchey is almost an inch...and I hate it.

How about a 700 wheel in back and a 650 or 26" in front? Sounds dumb I know...but the Triathletes use smaller wheels...Yes?

Thanks again.
STeve

Originally posted by smoore
How about a 700 wheel in back and a 650 or 26" in front? Sounds dumb I know...but the Triathletes use smaller wheels...Yes? That will alter your riding geometry. I don't think trying to 'correct' your frame to minimize toe overlap is worth the trouble.

George!

even lance rides his made-for-lance trek with toe-tire overlap.... heck if it's good enough for the pro's it's good enough for anyone!!

I ride a 48cm with 700c wheels and a 170mm crank and of course get toe-overlap. Most of my falls so far have been due to locking up my toe against my front wheel while performing a slow long sharp turn. I also have to be careful during trackstands. Most of the time this isn't problem as I've come from a mountain biking background and early on learned how to ratchet to clear my pedals. The trick here is that I have to learn to ratchet for a different reason to clear an obstacle that is 90 degrees out of line from what I'm used to. Sometimes I forget and the wrong foot gets chocolate.

I ride a small frame as well and have just learned if Im going to turn while moving slowly to drop my heel down to raise my toe and dont even think about it anymore. just a suggestion.

hmm, I got a 57 cm lemond alpe d'huez, and I have toe overlap. no biggie, if I am doing a u-turn, I have the outside pedal out of the way anyway. track standing is the only trouble, and I usually lose my balance before I strike a toe

here are my thoughts..

I think small frames should have longer toptubes(about 1-2cm more) and shorter stems(1-2cm less), in which the stem should compensate for the longer TT.

Although this may make handling a bit more difficult, it will elliminate(or at least minimize) the overlap.



;)

Dexmax, your solution of an extended TT is the norm in small sized production bikes. Take a look at the geometry charts, and compare the TT to the seat-tube across the size range. Small bikes are already longer than large bikes, and smaller ones have a slacker head-tube. Compromising the steering or fit to permit oversized cranks makes no sense. Just fit the correct size components to start with, and size the frame for the rider.

Has anyone experimented using a higher rake angle on the fork? I believe that forks come in 43; 44 or 45 degrees of rake. To put the wheel further out front by using the 45 and increasing the wheel base a little it might help eliminate toe overlap. I've never tried it because I've never had the problem. Just curious if any of you have.
It would probably make steering a little slower, but that might be better than what you have now.

This toe overlap is a completely new concept for me. I have a 50cm bike and I've never heard or (in my three weeks of cycling) experienced toe overlap. I'm surprised bike stores aren't warning people about this, since it could lead to serious injury. Am I correct to think that you are only really in danger from toeclip overlap if you are steering very hard while pedalling? - i.e. very tight turns, in which case you'd probably be going slowly anyway, or not pedalling at all.

If you your foot did contact the turning wheel, what would happen? Presumably, you wouldn't be able to turn any further (which would be a problem by itself) but otherwise your foot would just act like a brake. In other words, it won't automatically cause a crash. Or am I missing something?

And could this be avoided by using a compact frame?

Originally posted by RossB
This toe overlap is a completely new concept for me. I have a 50cm bike and I've never heard or (in my three weeks of cycling) experienced toe overlap. I'm surprised bike stores aren't warning people about this, since it could lead to serious injury.

Most bike shops (or at least the ones I've experienced) do warn people when they buy frame that coule lead to toe-overlap. I was warned well in advance when I was ordering my frame through my bikeshop.



Originally posted by RossB
Am I correct to think that you are only really in danger from toeclip overlap if you are steering very hard while pedalling? - i.e. very tight turns, in which case you'd probably be going slowly anyway, or not pedalling at all.

Correct. It's only really a factour when you're doing extremely slow sharp turns (especially uphill) or attempting a trackstand.


Originally posted by RossB
If you your foot did contact the turning wheel, what would happen? Presumably, you wouldn't be able to turn any further (which would be a problem by itself) but otherwise your foot would just act like a brake. In other words, it won't automatically cause a crash. Or am I missing something?

In a mild case, all you get is a bit of scrubbing. However, hit it just right and your foot actually locks up against the wheel and you can't even retreat from the angle. The end result is most likely a fall. I've never been able to recover when my toe locks up the wheel.


Originally posted by RossB
And could this be avoided by using a compact frame?

To an extent it can. A compact geometry will allow you to ride a slightly larger frame (greater standover) given the same top-tube length which may make or break the toe-overlap threshold at the wheelbase. However, most people already size against top-tube length which has a greater effect against wheelbase and thus remain the same regardless of compact or traditional geometry. The compact geometry really only effects standover. It's the BB-to-front-dropout distance that matters and this is mainly effected by top-tube length, head angle and fork rake than anything else. The other two controllable parameters that determine the possibility of toe-overlap are of course wheel size and crank arm length.

Originally posted by L J Horton
Has anyone experimented using a higher rake angle on the fork? I believe that forks come in 43; 44 or 45 degrees of rake. To put the wheel further out front by using the 45 and increasing the wheel base a little it might help eliminate toe overlap. I've never tried it because I've never had the problem. Just curious if any of you have.
It would probably make steering a little slower, but that might be better than what you have now.

On my bike, I have a 45mm rake fork, with 175mm cranks, but remember, this is a 57cm bike, and those cranks are the right size for my legs. I still have overlap. no biggie though.