Bicycle Mechanics - Rear tire problems... STILL!!!!!
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Ok, it all started last Saturday- I was out doing a long ride, and in the process, I ran over some sharp objects. I stopped right away and checked my rear tire. Stupidly, I figured I got a lucky break, because the tire did not go flat.
Sunday morning, I got outside for my morning ride, and the tire was flat. I changed the tube and inserted a brand new inner tube- checked the tire after reinflating, and saw no problems. I went off and did a 55 mile ride that day.
Monday I was off riding, but Tuesday, I wanted to do the same 55 mile ride, so I started riding my early morning ride. I got through the first 35 miles fine, but somewhere in about the 36th mile, I got another flat in my rear tire. I quickly changed the tire, checked to make sure the tire wasn't going flat, then jumped back on and continued with my ride.
I'd barely gotten more than 3 miles, when I hit another flat. Doh! I figured this time what was happening was that there must have been a sharp object dislodged in my tire, and I hadn't been cleaning the tire to make sure the object was dislodged. I spent a couple of minutes with a washcloth wiping the inside of my tire, then checked the inside and saw nothing embedded. I had an old repaired inner tube, so rather than fix the other inner tube, I used the old repaired inner tube. I wrestled the tire back onto the rims, then as I was pumping, the valve broke on the inner tube! So I stripped the tire back off the rim, pulled out the inner tube that had the hole, found the new puncture and repaired it. Then I blew up the inner tube and made sure there were no more holes, then put the inner tube back in the tire, and got that tire back on the rim. I checked to make sure I wouldn't get a pinched tire, then reinflated the tire.
As it turns out, the beat wasn't seated correctly on the tire, so I limped home, feeling very irritated at that point. I took the tire off the bike when I got home, uninflated it, kneaded the tire all the way around to make sure it was set right, then reinflated the tire- I did this about 2 times before the bike felt like it was riding without that annoying wobble on my back wheel.
Today, I got to my bike, and before I could even get on, I checked the wheels as I always do, and the rear tire was flat as a pancake, AGAIN! With only 13 minutes to go before I needed to be at my club teaching my indoor cycling class, I decided to fix the flat when I got back from class, and I jumped a cab instead. When I got back, I take the tire off the rim again, and this time, I've got a hissing noise right by the valve! So I decided to just change the stupid inner tube, figuring it must be a cheapie inner tube. I changed the tube and got the tire back on the bike in a little less than 10 minutes, which is a record for me, but now, I can tell the bead still is not set on the rim correctly. I deflated, then re-inflated the tire over and over again, and after I'd reinflate, I'd take it for a quick ride around the block, and I'm still getting the wobble. I check the wheel, and it's got bumps, so I know the bead is not set somewhere, but every time I found the source of where the bead was offset and fixed it, it seemed like there was another part of the tire offset someplace else!
Anyway, long story, but now I'm at my other job, and I had to leave my bike downstairs, but I have the rear tire up here with me at my desk. My question is 1) How can you tell when you put the tire back on if you've set the beads correctly on the tire and 2) if the tire is not seated correctly on the rim, how do you correct the problem?
I hate riding with this problem- I'd rather skip my rides altogether until I can fix it rather than wobble my way through some really awesome rides- I can't even go fast!
I've not had problems with a bead that badly before to be honest, could it be a defective tire? As for the couple flats in a row, you might want to take a cotton ball with you and run that along the inside of the tire and that will easily find any small protrusions to the inside of the tire, works alot better then fingers etc.
Look how good you are getting at changing a flat now :)
Thanks Kev- but I used a washcloth to wipe the inside of the tire at least 4 times by now- I think that other inner tube just was a weak inner tube that was damaged easily, which is why I have a new inner tube.
I have the Continential 1000 Sport tires. I don't think the tire is defective- I haven't had problems with this tire, and I know I've put in at least 1000 miles since I've gotten them, and I had this problem once before. I took it to a bike shop and they seated the beads on the rims correctly, but it took some doing for them to do this too- like 10 minutes, I think.
I have to laugh- I can rip that tire off in no time and have the inner tube in the tire and the tire back on the rim in almost no time- it's getting the beads to sit correctly on the tire that's now giving me the most problems. :-/
I am almost there, though!
Given up- bringing the tire to Yojimbo's Bike Shop after I get off work. They claim they can get it seated correctly, but I'm still interested in hearing what I can do to prevent this from happening the next time I have to change out the inner tube on my rear tire.
L J Horton
09-14-03, 01:09 PM
Have you checked the rim itself to make sure there is no build up of rubber along the bead to keep the tire from seating?
As for flats, bad luck. But there are liners you can get that go between the tube and the tire that may block small sharp objects. The liners cost about $5 or $6. There are also some that are a bit pricey in the $40. range.
The rim tape is clean- I've been checking the tape every time I change the tube. I may get that liner when I go to the bike shop and let them set my tire on the rim properly.
09-14-03, 02:11 PM
Also......next time you've got the tire off, check the rim itself to see if you don't have any spokes protruding thru the rim tape.
I've been using Conti 1000's for several years, among others, and they've been great tires.
I checked that too- no spokes coming through. The rim tape is unbroken and I also had the guys at Yojimbo's check the rim tape a few weeks back just in case. They said the rim tape was in pretty good condition, so no need to change it just yet...
Keep 'em coming. I really want to find out what's going on here!
09-14-03, 02:27 PM
Try swapping tires, front to rear, and see what happens....
09-14-03, 06:27 PM
Some tyres have a moulding on the sidewall which is visible just above the rim when the tyre is on the wheel. You can look at this to guage whether the tyre is seated properly all the way round.
Anyway, tyres have a finite life and maybe this one is just too far gone.
09-14-03, 07:11 PM
Check that the tire is evenly seated when there is only 15 pounds pressure in it. You can then work it to an even position with you hands, using the line that georgeupstairs mentioned as a guide. I have had problems with the tube being caught under the bead, when I tried getting the tire on in too much of a hurry. When you have only got a little bit of pressure in the tire, push in the bead from the rim all around the tire to check that the tube isnt nipped.
Hmmmm... I will try that.
I went to the bike shop today, and it didn't sound promising. The guy there said my rims were made for about a 700 x 28c tire, and I had a 700 x 23c tire, so he said the rim may be a bit wide for my tire, which would be causing the tire to set incorrectly on the rims. He seemed surprised that I'd been able to do it before- I'm not sure what to think, except I thought that maybe I should get a rim that's a bit skinnier so I can stick with my thinner tires. :=/
In the meantime, I still felt the wobbly feel, so when I got home, I tried to reseat the beads back onto the rims again, which made it feel a little smoother, but still, I could feel a little tiny wobbling. I will do the 15 pounds of pressure thing after I've completed my morning ride and before I go for my afternoon ride and give an update...
09-14-03, 09:06 PM
Do you have one of those wide Weinmann rims or similar? If so, they're really designed for wider tires even up to 35's. Do you have an identical rim up front?
09-14-03, 09:07 PM
Your shop guys explanation sounds a little iffy. Unless that is a super skinny rim(More narrow than any you would come across), your 28 should fit OK.
For checking for sharps I use my fingers, this does risk getting cut but also is the best way to make sure there is nothing in the tire (And something in tire sounds like your main problem) Sometimes it is a nub of glass barely protruding thru the tire.
With the rimstrip, if it is plastic, they can develop splits that do not show under visual inspection but open up when the tire hits 100psi (BANG) Even cloth tape will do this, rarely.
Seating the tire can be tough. If I have a tough seater I use liquid soap as a lube to help the tire seat, just swish some on the bead area. (We used a similar feeling product to mount truck tires) And, sometimes you just have to pump that rascal to the max to get it to seat (Put on your ear muffs and goggles in case it pops off the seat.)
I used to get repeated flats on tires occasinaly. Somewhere I read about using talcume powder on the tube ( put the tube in a plastic bag with a little talc and shake ). seems that the theroy is that it lets the tube and tire "slide" . Seems to be working for me. As far as seating the tire I also Inflate to a very low pressure and work all the way around pinching and pulling as I go.
The rims are different in the back than the front.
Rev, I like your explanation- I was thinking of deflating the tire, then taking some windex to the tire, then pumping the tire back up. I should pump it to the max psi (120)? I've been pumping to about 105- 110 psi, but if you think I should pump to 120, I'll try that instead.
09-14-03, 09:42 PM
Ok.....were you getting your flats in the same general area on the tube each time? If yes, you have something imbedded in the tire. It's always a good practice to mount your tire with the tire label mounted right above the valve stem and mounted on the side of the drivetrain. That way, you always have a reference point.
I'm not as worried about the flats anymore. I cleaned out the inside of the tire about 4 times now, and the last time I cleaned it out, I replaced it with a new inner tube. Now I'm just worried about getting the beat set on the rim correctly.
If the new tube still has problems, I'm just going to replace the tire with a different tire I have stashed away for a rainy day.
09-14-03, 11:20 PM
I use only folders - too many compatibility problems with wire beads. You can get good deals on folders in the mail catalogs. Of course they are tricky to install as well, but not for the same reason.:-> I posted here on the trick the LBS mech told me - use twist-tie type fasteners to secure the tire to the rim as you go along seating it.
Another hazard that sometimes occurs is a burr on the inside edge of the valve stem hole. With repeated fillings, this can cause the tube to rupture there.
I smooth the edge with silicon carbide paper & for extra measure cover the hole with a piece of rim tape or cloth bar tape, then make an opening for the valve stem.
I've had the tyre's plies break down so that the tire is pulling one side or the other. I only noticed when under pressure and it was only with Kevlar belted tyres. The bead was okay but the tyre had a "bend" in it. At first i was trying to seat the tyre but realizied the plies were distorted inside. I would of thought the Lbs would of picked that up though but it is worth concidering.
Put on the spare and see what happens.
09-15-03, 09:08 AM
If it was me, I'd use it as an excuse to buy a new bike.
New bike on the way, but not until next year.
I got up this morning at 3:45AM for my morning ride on a perfect riding morning- calm winds from the west, and a 45 mile ride planned for today. Got to my bike in the bike room- the back tire was flat!
Checked the inside of the tire this time using my fingers and doing a visual check also- no obstructions. Checked the rim tape and used my fingers again to rub inside the rim all the way around- no obstructions. Pulled out a cloth and wiped the inside of the rims and the inside of the tire- AGAIN. Nothing came off.
Changed the tire, started taking off, and guess what? I look down and see I hadn't put the whole freakin' tire on the rim- so I stopped and pulled the rest of the tire on the rim and reinflated. I thought I'd checked to make sure the tire wasn't pinched. Well, as I was inflating the tire, it blew up.
Put the bike away, went back to bed. I'm on my way to the bike shop hours later- I called them and asked them to do a thorough check of my rims and change the tire for me and let me know what happens.
I give up!
P.S. That makes 8 flat tires in the last 7 days, by the way.
i didn't see where you mentioned if they tubes were getting flats in the same place in relationship to the tire/rim.
I also didn't see if you mentioned what the holes in the tube looked like.
just one small hole? and was it on the side, top, inside or what?
there HAS to be something causing the flats and you could eliminate looking at the whole tire if you simply locate the hole in the tube and line it up w/ the tire/rim. then you can check just that area.
09-15-03, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by pnj
there HAS to be something causing the flats and you could eliminate looking at the whole tire if you simply locate the hole in the tube and line it up w/ the tire/rim. then you can check just that area. [/B]Agreed.....I mentioned the same thing in my earlier post here. That would save a lot of wasted time and aggravation. This has to be something so obvious and simple that's causing this.....
I tried everything you guys recommended- I did notice that right at the valve, there were constant punctures. There were two other punctures right next to each other too.
Thing was, I just gave up and brought it to the pros. I could see the punctures, but I couldn't figure out what was causing them. As it turns out, the rim tape WAS old- another shop told me about a month ago the rim tape was fine. Also, the tire is too skinny for the rim- I had no idea when I went to another bike shop about a year ago and told them to give me the strongest touring tires they had, that they would give me rims that were so wide. The other guy wasn't there right away that told me the tires were too wide for the rim, but when I showed my wheel to the guy that was there, he tried to set the bead on the rim, and right away, commented that the rim was too big for the tire- not that it wouldn't be possible to put the tire on, but just that the rim was made for a bigger tire- 28 and above, not the 23. He inflated the tire and showed me as he was inflating why the tire I had was a poor fit, and now I understand that I really do need a tire that's a bit bigger. He also showed me the bead of the tire, and a part of the bead of the tire was ripped- it was about 2 inches of ripped and shredded tire- and the hole created was BIG. He also mentioned the rim tape and showed me where the problem was with that, and once he got the tire back on the rim and changed it to a tire with a schrader valve, it rode a little better, but he mentioned the rim needed to be trued. I neglected to tell him (and you guys, cause it was sooooo stupid), but when I took off my wheel, I put the wheel on a ledge that was over a driveway for the delivery trucks and vans that was about 25 feet down. When I put my bag on the ledge next to the tire, the tire fell over the ledge and onto the driveway below, and I had to run like OJ in a rental car commercial to get to the wheel before a truck came out and ran it over. I was hoping the fall wouldn't have warped the wheel, but it did.
So this morning, they worked on completely changing the tire and the rim tape (I had a spare tire on me, believe it or not, but it was in my backpack of necessities, so I ripped it right out) and making sure there weren't other obstructions in the rim, then in the afternoon when I finished teaching my class, they took my bike and trued the rims.
It's over.... :-/ It's finally OVER!!!!!!
no. it's never over.......
Originally posted by pnj
no. it's never over.......
Well, I'll be getting a new bike in the coming months, so I'll be ok soon. In the meantime, if my bike breaks down like this again, I'll just huddle in the corner in a fetal position, rock back and forth, and suck my thumb while muttering incoherently...
09-15-03, 06:14 PM
Since you've had 2 stem problems, I'd bet that you have some sharp metal around the valvestem hole. either that, or you just bought a bad box of tubes.
09-15-03, 07:19 PM
he got the tire back on the rim and changed it to a tire with a schrader valve
What? Dont take this the wrong way, but what a recipe for disaster. Never put presta tubes into a schrader rim even if you have those little adapters. Get rid of your presta tubes if your using them. Its sounds to me as if you commute. Every gas station has schrader equiptment. I havent come across one that has presta. Use schrader tubes as matter of convienience. If your riding with narrow rims you may have to use prestas valves out of neccesity. Buy Mr. Tuffy.
For what it worth both of my bikes have presta valves. The mountain bikes are gettin' axed.....
My bullitt proof combo....for the road...Continental Contact safety system tires (something knobby for off road use), heavy duty inner tubes and Mr. Tuffy (rear only) on the Mountain bike. Michelin 700X23's with heavy duty inner tubes and Mr. Tuffy (rear only) on the raod bike.
09-15-03, 07:45 PM
I've run Prestas on a Schraeder rim for years on my Puch rear, with adaptor. Never a frown. I never use gas station pumps, am told they can easily blow a tube. However, i don't commute either.
I had no idea my rims were schraeder. When I bought them, the guys at the bike shop installed the new rims onto the bike and replaced the inner tube as well as the tire. This was about 10 months ago. If there's such a problem, why would they have put the presta valves on that rim when I bought it?
I can see now that the valve stem hole fits that schraeder valver perfectly, whereas the presta valve kind of wiggled around- a lot.
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