Books, Movies, Music & Entertainment - The Science Fiction/Fantasy Thread

Ok on a thread somewhere the idea that there should be a Science Fiction thread. So here it is, I added Fantasy because it seems those who like one like at least the cream of the other, also because I don;t want to get on just where one should draw the line. (Glory Road anyone?).

In any case One thing I thought would be a good idea is for us to try to include comments on the nooks and crannies. Either Authors or works that are less known. That is not to say the greats are excluded, just that many of us already know the greats and adding in a bit of things not so well known.

On that I'll point out "The Gostak and the Doshes" by Miles J. Breuer. Rather old, 1930. Based on an article on semantics and the result is a rather different alternate reality story.

For a different work by a well known Author I'll go with "Death and the Senator" by Heinlein I think it is collected in Expanded Universe, but check first, I'm far from sure on this.

I've worn out three copies of Heinlein's Glory Road. I also love Eddings' Belgariad and Mallorean and Rawn's Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies.

Jack Vance, particularly the Demon Princes series.

I love the Death World series, but it is trashy scifi.
Start with the second one, the first one is really bad and not needed.
http://www.amazon.com/DEATHS-HEAD-REBELLION-WARWORLD-World/dp/0671720279/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201464868&sr=1-1

Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress is an intriguing look at how genetics could change us.

Midnight at the Well of Souls by Jack Chalker kicks off an entetaining and lively series.
http://www.amazon.com/Midnight-Well-Souls-Jack-Chalker/dp/0345297695/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201465199&sr=1-2

A Song of Ice and Fire, a series by George R. R. Martin. Four books so far out of a planned total of seven. The author has writer's block so the fifth has been delayed over a year.

Even though the first book, A Game of Thrones, was on the NY Times bestseller list, a lot of people haven't heard of the series. It's the best fantasy I've ever read. The only thing I can compare it to, for sheer scale and complexity, is Lord of the Rings.

As far as sci-fi, my favorite short story is "Dog Star" by Arthur C. Clarke.

My favorite is The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, a twelve-book fantasy whose author recently died while writing number twelve. It's being finished by another author. I also like Tad Williams' books, Tolkien's Silmarillion, and Stephen King's Dark Tower cycle with all its tie-ins. I'm not much for hard sci-fi, but Armor by John Steakley is excellent.

Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card

The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester

Imagine a brutal sci-fi version of The Count of Monte Cristo and you're almost there. Probably one of the best sci-fi novels I've read.

I'm also a fan of A.E. Van Vogt (i.e. Slan, The Beast, The Weapon Makers, The Weapon Shops of Isher, etc.) and Harry Harrison (i.e. Bill, The Galactic Hero, The Stainless Steel Rat) for some pulpy-sci-fi-goodness. Not the greatest writers around, but they wrote some entertainingly imaginative sci-fi.

A Song of Ice and Fire, a series by George R. R. Martin. Four books so far out of a planned total of seven. The author has writer's block so the fifth has been delayed over a year.

Even though the first book, A Game of Thrones, was on the NY Times bestseller list, a lot of people haven't heard of the series. It's the best fantasy I've ever read. The only thing I can compare it to, for sheer scale and complexity, is Lord of the Rings.


A Song of Ice and Fire is incredible. It's a completely different beast than Tolkien, thankfully. It's loosely based on the War of the Roses and is complex, rich with characters you love to hate (until you get into their minds and then start hating yourself for loving them), full of politcal intrigue, blood, battles, history, etc. And Martin isn't afraid to kill off any of his main characters in the most unexpected situations.

The books are huge, yet fast reads, and upon re-read are revealed to have so much tease, foreshadow, and hints that there is no way to pick up on first read.

A Game of Thrones is an intense start, but the third book A Storm of Swords is off the charts magnificent. The latest A Feast for Crows sagged a bit, due to a split with the forthcoming A Dance with Dragons, but Martin seems to be taking his time to get it right. Better the book be late once than stink forever.

The series has a rabid following for good reason.

Always good to find another ASOIAF fan. Yeah, a good way to sum up the series is that it's great fantasy without all the sucky aspects that you usually get in fantasy, so I think it would appeal to people who don't usually like fantasy/sci-fi. I agree that Storm of Swords is the best one so far. And the fact that he kills off major characters is refreshing and creates genuine suspense.

I read somewhere that GRRM's wife told him she'd throw him out of the house if he ever killed off Arya, so I'll assume that character is safe for now. ;) I also like where he's going with Jaime Lannister, definitely one of the more interesting characters I've ever read.

To get on the Science Fiction track, I recommend anything by Greg Egan. He writes everything from near to distant future, with a somewhat positive outlook on topics such as genetic manipulation.

A good place to start would be either the novel "Distress", a near future look at genetic rights, or "Luminous", a collection of his short stories.

His books which are set further in the future (Schild's Ladder, Teranesia) tend to be a bit on the hard side of SF, and can be a little daunting if you're not into it.

Intellectually, Stanislaw Lem puts almost all sci-fi to shame... I suggest Solaris as an appetizer, followed by His Master's Voice.

As for fantasy I like Robert E. Howard's original Conan mythos.

Best Sci Fi I've ever read-Dune

Best Fantasy-Those Song of Ice and Fire books, which will apparently go unfinished due to a heinous case of writer's block.

Always good to find another ASOIAF fan. Yeah, a good way to sum up the series is that it's great fantasy without all the sucky aspects that you usually get in fantasy, so I think it would appeal to people who don't usually like fantasy/sci-fi. I agree that Storm of Swords is the best one so far. And the fact that he kills off major characters is refreshing and creates genuine suspense.

I read somewhere that GRRM's wife told him she'd throw him out of the house if he ever killed off Arya, so I'll assume that character is safe for now. ;) I also like where he's going with Jaime Lannister, definitely one of the more interesting characters I've ever read.

That is part of what I like about the works of Robert Heinlein. I can count 9 works where he doesn't kill of a 'major' character, he kills off the hero (7 of those 9 are indisputable, one could argue the other 2, but there are also a couple more I cou8ld argue that I didn't count). I conuted just about as many where the hero's mentor or sidekick dies. And a couple where major characters who don't quite fit the rules die.

Then he has a few happily ever after stories and at least one other that looks that way and ends quite differently.

Only one will I mention by name. "The Long Watch" If nothing else it proves yo can give away hte ending and still have a good story. After all it starts:

"Nine ships blasted off from Moon Base. Once in space, eight of them formed a globe around the smallest. They held this formation all the way to Earth.

"The small ship displayed the insignia of an Admiral --yet there was no living thing of any sort in her. SHe was not even a passenger ship, but a drone, a robot ship intended for radioactive cargo. This trip she carried nothing but a lead coffin -- and a Geiger counter that was never quiet."

Unless you are brain dead you know the Hero will die.

China Mieville, Perdido Street Station. One of the best books I've read that came out in the last few years.

Miéville’s prose brings to mind that of Gene Wolfe, that of Dan Simmons. While Mr. Miéville is in some ways more gifted, he does not yet have the maturity of theme that Mr. Wolfe and Mr. Simmons have made for themselves. At the moment, this hazy focus is as much a blessing as a problem. Perdido Street Station is not an easy read by any means, but it is without a doubt a rewarding one.

Here's the rest of my review (http://www.neilfein.com/2004/11/dreams-dirt-and-art.html) for anyone who's interested.

Today I saw one of the followup articles on the Poligamists in Texas. One part of Science Fiction is looking at where trends might lead and sort of predicting the future.

I'm also reading "Change of Command" by Elizabeth Moon. Which is why I'm posting this. This work is part of a pretty big bunch of interwoven novels. It is the third in a line where Esmay Suiza is the heroine (as in female Hero, not Hero's sweetheart). Starting with the second in this set "Rules of Engagement" we meet "The New Texas God Fearing Militia". Trying to match the real world up to fiction the group in hte news might just be one of the roots of the Newtex Militia.

Nasty thought.

P.s. The first in this series is "Once a Hero" though there are others that procede it also where some of the major cahracters in these books are introduced and developed. But one can easily start with Once a Hero.

My list of must-reads, some of which echo earlier posts.

Sci-Fi:
Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card. As disturbing as it is for kids to do what they did in this book, I'm surprised there's talk of making this into a movie.
Dune - Frank Herbert. Hard-core. IMO, better than Asimov, better than Hienlien.
Contact - Carl Sagan. Pretty cerebral, yet accessable. His writing is optimistic, but not necessarily naive. Written in the '80's, so one must overlook all the Soviet Union references.


Urban Fantasy / Fantasy:
Dresden Files - Jim Butcher. Yes, basis for the skiffy show, but way better
Codex Alera series - Jim Butcher. Pokemon meets Legio VI Hispana. Carnage ensues.
Neverwhere - Neil Gaiman. London Above, London Below, Hunter, Beast, Fallen Angel, Warrior
The Black Company (series) - Glen Cook. What's a war between super-villians without an outfit of cut-throat mercenaries thrown in to spice things up?

Special Category:
Urban Fantasy - Comics-style
Fray - Joss Wheadon. I am amazed how well this turned out. Complex, compelling characters. Thrilling and exhausting. Glad it was only 8 issues.

I've just watched Parts 1 and 2 of the Sci-Fi channel version of Dune. So far it doesnt suck. But it's not really an improvement over the the David Lynch theatrical version. Except for the special effects. A great improvement there.

FYI - I've never read the book. So i have no preconcieved notions about how good/bad either versions of the movies are.

FatGuyRacer wrote:

I've just watched Parts 1 and 2 of the Sci-Fi channel version of Dune. So far it doesnt suck. But it's not really an improvement over the the David Lynch theatrical version. Except for the special effects. A great improvement there.

FYI - I've never read the book. So i have no preconcieved notions about how good/bad either versions of the movies are.

Yeah, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the Skiffy version of the Dune books. A lot of the Skiffy original minis are kind of over-the-top or just plain cheesy. But this adaptation was well done.

Not surprisingly, the books are much more complex & nuanced. If you enjoyed the films, I would recommend taking a peek at the books.

I'm sort of surprized that no one has mentioned Starship Troopers by Heinlein. Talk about your
classic work. One of my all time favourites.
I'm currently reading the Ender series, good but they get a little wordy by Xenophile.
I also think Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman is superb, and on that note I have to
add Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett as a fun romp through the
apocalypse. Highly recommended.
Then theres the Ringworld series, the whole Known space series by Niven.

Marty

I'm sort of surprized that no one has mentioned Starship Troopers by Heinlein. Talk about your
classic work. One of my all time favourites.
I'm currently reading the Ender series, good but they get a little wordy by Xenophile.
I also think Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman is superb, and on that note I have to
add Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett as a fun romp through the
apocalypse. Highly recommended.
Then theres the Ringworld series, the whole Known space series by Niven.

Marty

What a setup (for me).

I was recently in a local used book store, A & M Book Cellars, 19801 Vanowen, and was talking to one of the owners. He made the comment that Heinlein was saying the same thing in Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land. I'll point out that this is at a more abstract level. Marty should know, he knew Robert and there at least used to be a picture of them along with Robert and Ginny in Jerry Pournelle's back yard posted at the back of the Science Fiction section of the store.

Oh and one other things that came up. The more any site on the web the more it gets mentioned in blogs and sites like this the higher up it comes in a search. This can be very important to used or speciality book stores.

So I encourage everyone to mention favorite sources of books as well as books.

thanks for the invite to this thread Keith. I've been reading Sci-fi for at least 30 years and love it.

Lately I've been plowing through John Ringo and David Weber.
John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata series that starts withA Hymm Before Battle and Gustfront are a directly influced by Heinlein and of course Kipling.

Weber's Honor Harrington stuff is good but get a bit tired I really like his Heirs of Empire series starting with Mutineer's Moon (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/09-AtAllCostsCD/AtAllCostsCD/Empire%20From%20the%20Ashes/index.htm)


I started off with the Big three: Clarke, Asmov, and Heinlein.

I loved Clarke's Rama series - classic hard sci-fi
Jack McDevitt seems to have picked up where these left off.

Greg Bear was a favorite of mine a while back as well - really love the The Eon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eon_%28novel%29) Series

Neal Stephenson hooked me with Snow Crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash) and I have been a fan ever since really loved The Baroque Cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baroque_Cycle_%28novel%29)

I will post a bit more later...

I have been reading lots of S.M. Stirling as well, his contibutions to the Known-space Niven novels in the Man-Kzin wars.

I enjoyed his Emberverse starting with Dies the fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_the_Fire)
but hated The Peshawar Lancers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peshawar_Lancers)

I'm about 1/2 way through the baroque cycle, and for the life of me it's rather
difficult to finish. I've found on some of Stephenson's work that the endings leave me rather
unfulfilled.
I really enjoyed Webers In Fury Born, it moved a bit quicker than much of the Harrington
series for me.
One writer who started out hells on fire for me was Gibson. I ate up everything he wrote, but
lately he has become too predictable. His stories all have the same feel, and plot to me.
Pattern Recognition sealed it for me, I much prefer his earlier cyberpunk, sprawl series,
even Idoru which was pretty off the wall.
I'm also enjoying the Naomi Novik's series starting with His Majesty's Dragon, sort of a cross
between Dragon Riders of Perth and a history of the Napoleanic wars

marty

the baroque cycle does have a few points that drag - but really takes off after a while.

I loved Gibsons stuff too.

me too, it taste great

thanks for the invite to this thread Keith. I've been reading Sci-fi for at least 30 years and love it.

Lately I've been plowing through John Ringo and David Weber.
John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata series that starts withA Hymm Before Battle and Gustfront are a directly influced by Heinlein and of course Kipling.

Weber's Honor Harrington stuff is good but get a bit tired I really like his Heirs of Empire series starting with Mutineer's Moon (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/09-AtAllCostsCD/AtAllCostsCD/Empire%20From%20the%20Ashes/index.htm)


I started off with the Big three: Clarke, Asmov, and Heinlein.

I loved Clarke's Rama series - classic hard sci-fi
Jack McDevitt seems to have picked up where these left off.

Greg Bear was a favorite of mine a while back as well - really love the The Eon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eon_%28novel%29) Series

Neal Stephenson hooked me with Snow Crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash) and I have been a fan ever since really loved The Baroque Cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baroque_Cycle_%28novel%29)

I will post a bit more later...

You are welcome and I think I have been well repaid.

On Asimov I found 'Nightfall' interesting. Also he edited a couple of volumes of Soviet Science Fiction that were rather interesting. A very different view. I believe the short story 'Three Matches' is in one of those volumes. A different take on Psy powers.

Asimov's FOUNDATION series.
The collected works of Larry Niven.
USHER II by Heinlein.
Anything by Robert E. Howard!

I'm also a sucker for compilations, like "The Last Man on Earth", a collection of writings that deal with that subject -- a fair amount of alien invasions, some evolution, some immortality, etc.; there's also "Strange Bedfellows", a collection of sexually-charged sci-fi...good luck finding it, though. My copy fell apart in a mildewed box caught in a basement flood (along w/ 200 old vinyl 33's; hey, I was building a new case for them when it happened!)

My favorite is The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, a twelve-book fantasy whose author recently died while writing number twelve. It's being finished by another author. I also like Tad Williams' books, Tolkien's Silmarillion, and Stephen King's Dark Tower cycle with all its tie-ins. I'm not much for hard sci-fi, but Armor by John Steakley is excellent.

First person I have ever seen also like that series. I loved it, but got caught up to fast and stopped reading at 8. Someday I will take the time to restart them. Thanks for reminding me of the series.

Here is a stretch and might require me to put on my flame suit. A series I really enjoyed but the series gets a lot of flack, is the decology Mission Earth by L Ron Hubbard. Very comical, some things actually made sense (oh no, here comes the flaming) and it was a very interesting read. At the time my parents were both majoring in physh/soc so maybe that's is why I took to it, but its a worthwhile read imo.

I currently started reading a lot of feists fantasy stuff. Another throwback for me as it feels like the dragonlance series in ease of read but with a tolkienesque plotline. For a quick read before bed I enjoyed these quite a bit. The character development was decent as well as you followed the lives of the main characters throughout their entire adventurous lives.

I have read and re-read most of tolkiens works a number of times. Likely my favorite all time writer and one of the ones I compare all others to. As with Asimov, I start reading a book and immediately draw comparisons in quality (obviously asimov in sci fi ;)).

you really did go out on a limb with L Ron - I read a few of his but it never really seemed to come alive for me.
as far as fantasy after Tolkien I remember reading the Stephen R Donaldson Thomas Covenant series in sixth grade. I loved it then and have always wanted to read it again.

anybody read Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Cantos) ?

I enjoyed that series!

anybody read Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_Cantos) ?

I enjoyed that series!

You mean there are people who haven't? Awesome series. The third book flags a little, but it's excellent. Ilium and Olympos are just as good if not better.

You mean there are people who haven't? Awesome series. The third book flags a little, but it's excellent. Ilium and Olympos are just as good if not better.

The Hyperion and Ilium/Olympos books are on my radar after reading Simmons' The Terror. It's not SF/F, but gripping historical fiction with a dose of supernatural.

You mean there are people who haven't? Awesome series. The third book flags a little, but it's excellent. Ilium and Olympos are just as good if not better.

thanks for reminding me! I forgot about the Ilium and Olympos!!!
I am reading them next!

does anyone else have like 40 books stacked up in the "queue" waiting for their turn?

^^ Yup, that's me. When I see a book I want to read, I pick it up regardless if I have time at the moment lest I forget later. So the bookshelf at home has its 'yet to be read' section. This applies across the board, not just SciFi/Fantasy.

you really did go out on a limb with L Ron - I read a few of his but it never really seemed to come alive for me.


Understandable, it can be quite dry. But as my parents were head first into physch it was a great reference to pull myself back. Nothing worse than being a teenager with parents doing social media studies and analyzing everything on TV.



as far as fantasy after Tolkien I remember reading the Stephen R Donaldson Thomas Covenant series in sixth grade. I loved it then and have always wanted to read it again.

I like donaldson as well. One I am done reading feists stuff I might go back a reread that :)

^^ Yup, that's me. When I see a book I want to read, I pick it up regardless if I have time at the moment lest I forget later. So the bookshelf at home has its 'yet to be read' section. This applies across the board, not just SciFi/Fantasy.

I use the chapters profile for that. It keeps track of what I have read and what I want to read. Makes tracking books a lot easier.

A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller Jr.

Absolutely brilliant.

A Canticle of Leibowitz is wonderful.

No one has mentioned Larry Niven and the whole "known space" series. Some of the best--arguably THE best--hard SF ever written. Try "Protector", and read in order the Man-Kzin wars books. Also, Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer.

All of Heinlein until Time Enough for Love, after which his work was totally different, and in my view, much, much worse than what he wrote before. Almost unreadable.

David Brin's uplift series. Just great stuff.

Everything by Vernor Vinge. Especially "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky".

Snowcrash, The Diamond Age, and Cryptinomicon by Neal Stephenson.

The Heechee series by Fred Pohl.

The Forever War series by Joe Haldeman.

A Canticle of Leibowitz is wonderful.

No one has mentioned Larry Niven and the whole "known space" series. Some of the best--arguably THE best--hard SF ever written. Try "Protector", and read in order the Man-Kzin wars books. Also, Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer.

All of Heinlein until Time Enough for Love, after which his work was totally different, and in my view, much, much worse than what he wrote before. Almost unreadable.

David Brin's uplift series. Just great stuff.

Everything by Vernor Vinge. Especially "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky".

Snowcrash, The Diamond Age, and Cryptinomicon by Neal Stephenson.

The Heechee series by Fred Pohl.

Niven is one of my favorites for sure! Ringworld and his known-space is a MUST READ for all Sci-Fi fans
does anyone else remember -"the ringworld is unstable" T-shirts?
I loved his other stuff with Jerry Pournell The Mote in gods eye and
The Gripping Hand
The Legacy of Heorot and Beowulf's Children fun as well.

A Canticle of Leibowitz is wonderful.

No one has mentioned Larry Niven and the whole "known space" series. Some of the best--arguably THE best--hard SF ever written. Try "Protector", and read in order the Man-Kzin wars books. Also, Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer.

All of Heinlein until Time Enough for Love, after which his work was totally different, and in my view, much, much worse than what he wrote before. Almost unreadable.

David Brin's uplift series. Just great stuff.

Everything by Vernor Vinge. Especially "A Fire Upon the Deep" and "A Deepness in the Sky".

Snowcrash, The Diamond Age, and Cryptinomicon by Neal Stephenson.

The Heechee series by Fred Pohl.

I wanted to check order of publication. I pretty much agree. Heinleins later stuff is far below the standard he established. I'm not sure when 'Expanded Universe' was published and 'Grumbles from the Grave' is a noteable exception. I'm pretty sure these 2 works also give a pretty important clue. Heinlein suffered from a degenerative arterial disease which was eventually 'cured' using technology from the Space Program. Thus the gap in publication and I think the fall off.

I sometimes wonder when I find people who don;t like Heinlein if these late works are the cause. They are often more available and if that is the sole or major criteria it really makes sense. His earlier stuff is worth rereading, the post 1980 stuff may not be worth a read at all.

I remember that line: The Gostak distimms the Doshes.

Jack Vance, particularly the Demon Princes series.

If you can find a copy of Vance's 1969 novel Emphyrio, please give it a read. It's
probably the best, or near the best, of his novels.

My favorite is The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, a twelve-book fantasy whose author recently died while writing number twelve.

yeah, that series is my favorite too. I got a bit of a memorial tattoo to honor his work.

Other than that, I also enjoy L. E. Modesitt JR's saga of Recluce series.

Asimov's FOUNDATION series.
The collected works of Larry Niven.
USHER II by Heinlein.
Anything by Robert E. Howard!

I'm also a sucker for compilations, like "The Last Man on Earth", a collection of writings that deal with that subject -- a fair amount of alien invasions, some evolution, some immortality, etc.; there's also "Strange Bedfellows", a collection of sexually-charged sci-fi...good luck finding it, though. My copy fell apart in a mildewed box caught in a basement flood (along w/ 200 old vinyl 33's; hey, I was building a new case for them when it happened!)

Took far too long for Foundation to come up. I agree with the Ender series and Dune being fantastic as well. But I am also surprised that there haven't been any Hitchhiker's Guide votes out there. How can that be skipped over?

Took far too long for Foundation to come up. I agree with the Ender series and Dune being fantastic as well. But I am also surprised that there haven't been any Hitchhiker's Guide votes out there. How can that be skipped over?

Hitchhikers guide is not one I would reccomend on an open thread. Not to say it is bad by any means. Just that it is very different and many would not like it. Of course that can be a good reason to give it a try.

Hitchhikers guide is not one I would reccomend on an open thread. Not to say it is bad by any means. Just that it is very different and many would not like it. Of course that can be a good reason to give it a try.
HG to the G is terrific. I would throw it out for consideration in a scifi thread.
I don't know what would work best for anyone. I saw the TV show and then read the book. Worked for me.
British wit wielded like a baseball bat. I'd love more.

I like the first and second Dan Simmon books. After that I couldn't stand them. YMMV...

I prob mentioned this earlier, but I am just finishing up the Well of Souls series.
The first book, Midnight at the Well of Souls, is a lot of fun. Amazon has it for
pennies.

Hitchhikers guide is not one I would reccomend on an open thread. Not to say it is bad by any means. Just that it is very different and many would not like it. Of course that can be a good reason to give it a try.

So, different is bad? Isn't scif/fantasy all about the weird and strange and different? Just sayin'...