Utility Cycling - Full Chaincase

Boy, am I late with this report.

I finally have done a trial fit of the chaincase and am glad to report that it fits well.

http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf/_Pix/cc-mounted.jpg

If you would like more info I have posted a short article in my blog Subject to Change (http://graywolfphoto.com/journal/?p=438)

Ah... It is not as easy as I thought it would be. You find out why the rear cog has those spacers which do not make much difference with a hockey stick chain guard. With the chaincase you have to adjust them so the cog and chain do not rub. I had to kind of bend the metal on the spoke side of the chaincase so the spokes do not rub. Now I am trying to figure out how to put the chainwheel cover back on. It fits really tight, has to I guess, and I have not figured out how to put it back on, fits sort of like a paint can lid, without bending the chiaincase. It would be nice to have instructions.

One thing, I have had the back wheel on and off several times tinkering with things; it is no more of a problem than it is without the chaincase. I wonder where all those folks saying how hard it is to remove the wheel got their information. Probably, they read something someone made up.

Anyway, for inquiring minds, turn the bike upsided down. Remove the screw holding the cog cover, and remove the cog cover. Loosen the brake. Disconnect the gear cable. Loosen the axle nuts. Side the wheel forward out of the slots. Pull the chain to the side to clear the cog, I hang something, usually the wrench, to the loose chain to keep it from jumping off the chainwheel. Remove the wheel. It goes back in the reverse order. Those who have worked on three speed bikes will notice the only difference is removing the cog cover from the chaincase.

Mounting the chaincase was fairly easy, but I have not been able to get the crank cover on. I have even removed the thing and tried to put it on with the chaincase laying on the floor. No go.

I emailed Yellow Jersey about the crank cover, and they replied quickly They said it is supposed to go in just like I thought (just heavy thumb pressure). Only of course it is not working that way.

ADDED: Well sanding down the paint between the cover and the chaincase as YJ recommended has fixed that problem, but the metal is almost bear in there now.

OK, it looks something like this.

http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf/_Pix/dunelt-fccjpg.jpg

I think I would like to do something a bit more sturdy for the front mounting bracket than what I used, but that can wait a bit. Do need to clean it up and take a better photo. (Doesn't everyone use a $3000 studio flash system to make lousy snapshots?) Going to need a decal and some penstripping, I think.

Definitely could use a bit of gold pinstriping on it. Now in about 15-20 years that bike is going to show up on ebay or CL and everybody will be arguing over how a Sports ended up with a full chaincase. :roflmao2:

Aaron:)

Ah, "Dunelt Comfort Sports", check the catalog (there is one on ebay right now). They made a Comfort Tourist also. Unfortunately, since I have no heirs, it will probably wind up in the dumpster in 15-20 years, maybe sooner. But, I will get a bit of pleasure from it until then.

I kind of remember what the pinstripping was like on the Dunny I had as a kid. Quite a lot of it actually, although not custom looking, on the mudguards, frame tubes, and chain guard if I recall correctly. It used to bother me that the pinstripping did not follow the contours. Once Raleigh took over, that kind of stuff was done away with, as well as the cast namebadge.

What's up with the saddle tilt?

What's up with the saddle tilt?

That is where a Brooks works best on a relaxed geometry frame. Here is picture of my '72 Raleigh Superbe, similar tilt. I also have a similar tilt on my Dutchified Redline R530.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/1392/2339537260066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Think about it riding a drop bar bike leaning almost horizontal you have the nose of the saddle almost horizontal. As you rotate you body more towards vertical the saddle needs to rotate with it. Another way to think of it is with the body horizontal you brace yourself against the horizontal nose of the saddle, and with your body vertical you sit on the horizontal seat of the saddle.

An interesting thing is that with the saddle angled properly for your position you can use it to set your seat height, I got this from the late Mr Brown, if the seat is too high you side forward when pedaling, if it is too low you slide back.

All that said, my saddle in the photo is tilted about 5 degrees too high. It looks like the seat post has slipped a bit too, my legs are short but not quite that short. The Dunny is my park bike, the the path in the so called greenway park is 2.5 miles long so it is a leisurely five mile ride up and back. I do not ride it much in the summer as the cops patrol the greenway park (on the streets they do it year round) and give $50 tickets if you are not wearing a helmet.

OK, it looks something like this.

http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf/_Pix/dunelt-fccjpg.jpg

I think I would like to do something a bit more sturdy for the front mounting bracket than what I used, but that can wait a bit. Do need to clean it up and take a better photo. (Doesn't everyone use a $3000 studio flash system to make lousy snapshots?) Going to need a decal and some penstripping, I think.

Nice looking Dunny. I like the chaincase.

My wife and rode our bikes to the local park on Sunday afternoon, with my daughter in the child seat. While we were having a picnic a couple rode past on some classic English roadsters. The lady's model had a full chaincase. Didn't sound loud to me. Thye rode by before I could call out to them, and ask about the bikes.

As a matter of fact, I'd like one for my Raleigh Sports. I commute to work on it, and my pants cuff flaps into the chainline and has gotten grease on it a few times. I either roll it up and put it in my sock, or wear shorts and change at work, but in cooler months I think a chaincase would work well. Would help with road grime, too, I imagine.

Well, I am going to have to rethink that front mount. On the road it slipped and started dragging. I kind of expected that. Unfortunately it will be awhile before I can get to it.

There are some big misapprehensions here. The pic below should show you that a) Raleigh did use full chaincases, b) there is no need for removable seatstays (why would there be?). Furthermore c) I don't find this bike noisy. The chain doesn't rub on the chaincase, and if the general chain noise is amplified, I haven't noticed. I mean, it's not silent like a well set up fixed gear, but it's fine. I love this bike, but changing a rear tyre is a pain in the arse, between stripping the chaincase and disconnecting/reconnecting the 4 speed Sturmey Archer.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/P7050003.jpg

Just read the last two pages - looks good Graywolf. Intersting that you don't find it any more difficult than without the chaincase. Mine comes off easily enough, but reassembling it takes me ages.

Well, I am going to have to rethink that front mount. On the road it slipped and started dragging. I kind of expected that. Unfortunately it will be awhile before I can get to it.

I'm trying to decide if I should braze fittings on my new commuter to put one of these chainguards on with. Seeing this post makes me think that it would be worth it. What do you think?

A full chaincase is appropriate on a roadster. They can be found on the UK eBay.

I'm trying to decide if I should braze fittings on my new commuter to put one of these chainguards on with. Seeing this post makes me think that it would be worth it. What do you think?

For the Yellow Jersey chaincase like I have, all the front mount would be is a piece of 1/2x1/8 steel brazed to the outside of the chainstay with a hole at the top and bottom to fit the threaded mount points already in the chaincase.

I believe the Raleigh's setup for a chaincase simply have a threaded stud on the chainstay, and it is apparently just a matter of drilling a hole in the chaincase to align with that stud and screwing it down.

The problem I am having is that I simply used a strap around the chainstay. That allows the chaiuncase tp rotate enough when I go over bump to let the chain rub. The problem with putting it on a bike that was not set up for it, is simply that you have to figure out how it should be positioned when you have no drawing, spec's, nor working installation to look at. There are several ways I can fix the problem: a sheet metal screww through the strap to keep it from rotation, a dab of epoxy ditto, screw the CC into the stay with spacer. But those all are a bit of a kludge; and I would rather wait until I can afford one of those little mapp gas welding outfits they sell at Lowes and braze a proper bracket on. So, I will hav to wait until my current project is finished to do that.

Obviously, I believe it is worth the effort.

Aside to Sammyboy, the only chaincase I had worked on before was on an early 50's version. The CC was one piece, except for the chainwheel cover and the cog cover. You had to unfasten the seatstay from the dropout and move it aside to put the chainstay through the CC. I did not know that they had later put a removable piece in the CC so you did not have to do that. Sometimes us old farts are not up on the newfangled ways...

Does the disk at the crank rotate with the crank?

No. That's a dust cover. The crank rotates as it would if the crankset was exposed.

Does the disk at the crank rotate with the crank?

Nope, the chainwheel cover does not rotate. It is there so you can put the chaincase on without removing the pedal and crank arm. You will notice that here is a smaller piece that does the same for the chainwheel cover, it slides into folded over slot in the cover. Clever folks those old time bicycle engineers.

Note that as originally designed you only needed to remove the crank arm to do a bottom bracket rebuild, which was about every ten years or so, as they had and oil cup for lubrication. Folks who never rode the old, oh, 1955 and earlier, bikes with oil lubrication cannot understand how simple maintenance was. Once a week squirt a few drops of oil in the hubs, bottom bracket, and pedals, then wipe down with an oiled rag. Every year or two repack the headset (Did they ever have an oil lubed headset?) Check all the nuts for tightness about once a month.

However, there were a couple of recurring problems back then: Broken spokes, I remember having to replace a couple every other month. Also you could expect a flat about every couple hundred miles. I remember replacing the indicator chain on the hub about once a year, but that may have been because I was a kid and thought nothing about dropping the bike on the ground. The bikes actually came with a couple of wrenches that had slots that fit everything one the bicycle, the only thing you needed besides them was a big hammer for the crank pins and you could completely rebuild the bike.

It was later that they started selling the accessories à la carte, so they could get more money for the bike,. Back then the fenders, pump, saddle bag, lights, and spring saddle were all standard. Oh, there were more expensive models with better quality accessories, but all the English "racer" bikes back then were fully set up to use as transportation as they came.

Sorry, nostalgia often overtakes us old folks,

looking back, a bit I noticed Sammyboy's Raleigh has a French style handlebar on it. Definitely not stock. It gives a sportier more forward riding stance.

For those who may be interested, the knowledgable called the English bikes "English Tourers", and the French bikes "Alpine Tourers" because of the up to 15 speed derailleur systems on them. The dummies called them both English Racers. There were serious road bikes available, but no one in my neighborhood, Detroit factory workers, had one. In fact I can not remember seeing an adult on a bicycle as a kid.

my dad had the 3 speed in our family, I remember him messing around with it all the time. So I have reverse nostalgia.

I decided I'm going to make a chaincase. Watch this spot.

I fitted my DL-1 Lady's Tourist with the chaincase from Yellow Jersey.
The chaincase is nice, but does not look like those on other pics: Mine has fine red and yellow pinstriping and came with the words "Wu Yang" printed on it, which I have since mostly removed.

Most DL-1's here did not come with the full chaincase... because of a duty on bikes weighing over 40 lbs. They were meant to be workhorses not racing machines.

Most DL-1's here did not come with the full chaincase... because of a duty on bikes weighing over 40 lbs. They were meant to be workhorses not racing machines.

I've heard that one a lot. But I recently, about a year ago, found out that because the US government wanted repayment on their WWII lend/least that there was no import duties on British goods from WWII to about 1960. I think the thing actually was that most bikes in the US were bought for kids and the hockey stick chain guard was more sporty looking and of course the bike was cheaper with that. My cousin's Raleigh of about 1955 that I was so envious of had a full chaincase, his parents always bought the most expensive stuff, so they were available here in the USA. Anyway, my info on there not being any duty one English bicycles of that period came from a book about the history of the bicycle business in the US, unfortunately I can not remember the title. Also a loaded Light roadster(sports) is under 40 pounds even with the full chaincase (35# with some stuff in the saddle bag, in fact; I just now weighed my Dunelt).

Another exciting episode in the aventures of Tom Swift boy bicycle mechanic.

I am glad I have not gotten around to finishing the chaincase installation. Why is that?

Well, I just got one of those rear axle kickstands from Bike World via Amazon, and...

It and the chaincase do not work together very well. They are both going to require a bit of modifying and fiddling. It looks like I will have to grind a bit off the kickstand and dimple the chaincase a bit. Then I need to get a thin nut for the shift side of the 3-speed hub, because the mount on the kickstand is so thick it leaves no axle sticking out to thread the indicator chain guide nut onto. It is going to take some looking and head scratching to figure out the best way of going about all that, and right now I have a rather nasty cold that keeps saying, "Go to bed, Tom".

The kickstand has a detent lock you can engage, so the bike can not roll forward off the stand unless you unlock it. Of course, as usual, there are no instructions. The stand obviously was not designed to work on an English 3-speed, much less one with a full chaincase.

My suggestion, would be to try and find a bike that came from the factory equipped like this, it is really too much money and too much work to retro-design the thing. Of course, if you like to do this kind of thing for fun...

And just to make me feel bad, the local Lowes Store quit carrying those mapp gas welding torches I was going to buy.

I have full chain CASE on a brand new Torker Cargo-T, so there ARE modern examples. So find a shop that has an account with Seattle Bicycle. Order a spare chain CASE.

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Just thought I would mention, in case anyone missed it, that I had written quite a bit about the rear axle stand in the Dutch Center Stand thread here in the Utility Bike form.

I have full chain guard on a brand new Torker Cargo-T, so there ARE modern examples. So find a shop that has an account with Seattle Bicycle. Order a spare chain guard.

130374

Chain guard versus a Chain case. I have a Redline R530 with a full CHAIN GUARD a Chain case fully encloses the chain a chain guard does not. Small point a a world of difference in actual chain protection.

Aaron:)

Aaron is correct about that. Supposedly, the Sunbeam chaincase was designed as an oil bath chaincase. I have never seen one, but it would be interesting to know if you had to drain it to change a tube or tyre? From things I have read, the Sunbeam may have been the high-end roadster of all time. Or maybe it was the American made Columbia of about 1900? What, you thought alloy frames, shaft drive, and things like that were new technology?

Just resurrecting an old thread here, but I was wondering if anyone has made their own chain case and would like to share some pics and some mounting ideas. I like the way the VO polished chain guard uses a BB mount. It would be nice to design the back half of a chain case to work like that... I am going to try and make some mock-ups and see how they work out for me.

I had a Hebie Chainglider on a Raleigh Shopper here.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s15/roofrack2/Bicycles%20I%20have%20assembled/?action=view&current=P1020760.jpg

I also had one on a Racing bike that I adapted to be a fast commuter here.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s15/roofrack2/Bicycles%20I%20have%20assembled/?action=view&current=P1020421.jpg

They are a right pain if you get a puncture and you end up covered in oil. However they do keep your chain really clean. On the Racer I had Schwalbe Marathon Plus - they've been on for nearly four years and I have never had a puncture. On the Shopper though I have Duranos and they get punctures all the time. Eventually I just took it off.

I had to cut both of them a little with a craft knife to get them to fit. These are both Superbe Pro 42t chainrings.

Clasher, you might use that VO bottom bracket mount as a starting point for making a dutch style chaincase, that is to say a metal frame that is covered in a fabric covering. The really old chaincases of this type use leather, wereas newer models use vinyl.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovely_bicycle/5295129917
Here is an example of the chaincase frame as mounted onto a frame braze-on. Raleigh DL-1s from the early 70s had such braze-ons.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovely_bicycle/5295130067
This is a full view of the chaincase, it can't be made out too easily, but there is a metallic piece that completes the back end of the frame that goes between the hub and the dropout.

http://www.dutchbikeseattle.com/images/bloggages/IMG_4373_blog.jpg
This is what such a piece looks like.

http://vintagebicycle.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/porteur-bicycle-1946/
If you want to go for a partial porteur chaincase in this style, the VO hardware seems like it can be modified for this purpose as well.

http://prollyisnotprobably.com/2009/06/chain_cover_tutorial.php
As far as the Hebie chaincase goes, a cheap and ghetto way of imitating it would be to use electrical conduit from auto-supply stores (they are used to tidy up the mass of cables) to wrap the chain. Since the conduit is essentially a long bendy straw that's been split down the middle, it moves with the chain; its not perfect, the plastic used is not made to withstand repetitive bending and will eventually break into smaller fragments, each bit clinging to the chain. Despite this flaw, such a chaincase works fine to keep clothes clean, although it does not do much to prevent the chain from accumulating grime.

Aaron is correct about that. Supposedly, the Sunbeam chaincase was designed as an oil bath chaincase. I have never seen one, but it would be interesting to know if you had to drain it to change a tube or tyre? From things I have read, the Sunbeam may have been the high-end roadster of all time. Or maybe it was the American made Columbia of about 1900? What, you thought alloy frames, shaft drive, and things like that were new technology?

Oil bath!? Gee, I wonder why that never caught on. :rolleyes:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/mguard.html
26" one fit my frame. Had the same measurements from the rear dropout to the bottom bracket as Raleigh Sports frames and the same bottom bracket size.

Fabricated brackets from pipe clips. Though in hindsight I'd recommend fabricating an L shaped bracket which would attach to the the top of the kickstand plate and be secured with the kickstand bolt. Also drilled through the case at the fender eyelet and used the fender bolt with a nut to help secure the case at the dropout. Between that, the stay clip, and the bottom bracket clip locations the chaincase stays put.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-b6mi2gVB73E/T67eeOQinjI/AAAAAAAAApw/mzSUgsU4VNE/s640/IMG_0867.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4_01rRhPhfU/T4sWGV5YYEI/AAAAAAAAAO0/vy5JsEYgf20/s640/IMG_0723.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g7j56Cl3jl0/T67fE-vSheI/AAAAAAAAAqU/5wTo0AuE1fU/s640/IMG_0874.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FBWX16Af3To/T67fEgGkPAI/AAAAAAAAAqQ/pZgX3EcNFOk/s640/IMG_0875.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QtSC3doSKG4/T67fSy7ZHOI/AAAAAAAAAqo/qaw3osnTjGQ/s640/IMG_0877.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jOiI2hwLq5E/T67fSW4PLEI/AAAAAAAAAqg/fc3r9djBEMA/s640/IMG_0876.JPG

http://www.dutchbikebits.com

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I'd like to get one of the Dutch Bike chain covers, but ordering from the Netherlands seems like it would be an ordeal for something I've never seen

I've had good experience with this vendor in Holland:
http://www.dutchbikebits.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=43 (http://internal/iCabMobile_CallBack?openURLinTarget&target=_blank&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dutchbikebits.com%2Findex.php%3Froute%3Dproduct%2Fcategory%26path%3D43&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikeforums.net%2Fshowthread.php%2F378282-Full-Chaincase%3Fp%3D14233940%26posted%3D1%23post14233940)

Shipping to US is not outrageous, stuff shows up in a couple weeks. The owner is actually English.