Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - All week light system

I've read through a lot of threads looked at a lot of lights but I'm having trouble finding the best solution, if there a a good thread I've missed please point me in that direction. I'm a long-distance cyclist (although fairly new at it) so I often ride all night and I am sometimes gone for days at a time (this summer I'm planning a 5000km trip that should take anywhere from 2 to 3 weeks). Last summer I used the BLT super dopler dx which provided a good flood from my experience but the bluish light made it hard to see definition.

I'm thinking about adding another light or going to two new lights and probably the only solution would be to use alkaline batteries which I can get at most general stores. It would pretty much need to last the entire night and be powerful enough to see where I'm going on roads with no lighting at all and since I'm going to be expending enough energy keeping myself going I really don't want to go for a generator. What are my best options?

Thanks!

Most references I see regarding Dinotte Lighting are the "crazy long" runtimes. The 200L will run 8 hours on high and 16 hours on medium using their 4-cell Li-ion batteries. The 600L runs 3.5 hours on high and 7 hours on medium.

This is their basic configuration for regular road and trail riding where it is important to have a helmet light for seeing into turns and added depth perception.
http://store.dinottelighting.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=dinotte&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=524089992&Count2=441230416

This might work best for you since most of you riding is straight ahead.
http://store.dinottelighting.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=dinotte&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=524089992&Count2=441230416

This is the best of everything.
http://store.dinottelighting.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=dinotte&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=524089992&Count2=441230416

Be sure to distinguish between the 2-cell and 4-cell battery for pricing and ordering purposes.

If you go with the 200L combo you might want to get 1 wide and 1 spot lense.

The 200L will run 8 hours on high and 16 hours on medium using their 4-cell Li-ion batteries.

Thanks but what do I do after their batteries run out?

Thanks but what do I do after their batteries run out?

Maybe I am missing something here. But here goes. You recharge them with the charger that comes with the package. You said you did not want a generator.

Maybe I am missing something here. But here goes. You recharge them with the charger that comes with the package. You said you did not want a generator.

I can see what his problem might be with using rechargeable and touring. You can't always guarantee that you are going to be somewhere where you can recharge the battery at night. Personally, I'd stay off the roads at night and get some sleep but to each his own;)

Perhaps a Fenix powered by alkaline AAs would work.

You are going to need about a dozen AAs to run all night with enough light to tootle along at 20kph. Double that if you're going to be moving at 30.
A Hub dyno (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html), a nice LED head (http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/diy%20details.htm) and good driver circuit (http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm) will give you enough light to travel at 40+ all night, costing you much less than 1kph in speed which you might make up due to less fatigue (its hard work riding for hours with not much light).

The AA Dinotte lights can use any AA NiMH battery out there. A pack of 4 high capacity batteries is only about 10 dollars at any store. Ditto with the Fenix. Carry some extra batteries along with the Dinotte and you may be set if you can find a place to recharge every few days. Alkaline batteries can also be used in a pinch, but like znomit said, they do have less capacity than NiMH batteries.

With their Lithium battery lights, you can just order extra battery packs from Dinotte. If you can carry 3 or 4 Li-on packs and a charger with you, you can keep going for a pretty long time without daily access to an electrical outlet.

You are going to need about a dozen AAs to run all night with enough light to tootle along at 20kph. Double that if you're going to be moving at 30.
A Hub dyno (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/shimano.html), a nice LED head (http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/diy%20details.htm) and good driver circuit (http://www.pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm) will give you enough light to travel at 40+ all night, costing you much less than 1kph in speed which you might make up due to less fatigue (its hard work riding for hours with not much light).
+1
When I started riding at night I thought I needed to compete with motor vehicle headlights. This required batteries and all the headaches that went with rechargeable batteries or the expense of disposable batteries. I was in a X-mart one day and discovered they had Schwinn dynamo kits on sale for $7.20. I could not pass up a deal like that! The headlight and taillight in the package looked nice so I thought I could always run them from batteries. After installing the kit with dynamo I found the drag nothing like I expected and the light was reasonable enough to get by with. What was exhilarating was the freedom of not needing to worry about batteries at all! That freedom more than made up for the dimmer lights. After a few weeks of riding I finally burned out my taillight bulb. This prompted me to DIY an LED headlight and taillight. Now I never need worry about changing burned out filament bulbs or purchasing spares, as spare bulbs would cost more that what I paid for the entire kit!

The Fenix L2D sounds like it might be worth trying (I'll probably get a stronger powered light for commuting and one-night rides so I'll be able to play a little). Seems a lot of people also use the Cateye EL530 I might give that a go too.

I don't care about riding a little slower at night (I usually do) but I love the hubs I have now.

Thanks again!

The AA Dinotte lights can use any AA NiMH battery out there. A pack of 4 high capacity batteries is only about 10 dollars at any store. Ditto with the Fenix. Carry some extra batteries along with the Dinotte and you may be set if you can find a place to recharge every few days. Alkaline batteries can also be used in a pinch, but like znomit said, they do have less capacity than NiMH batteries.

With their Lithium battery lights, you can just order extra battery packs from Dinotte. If you can carry 3 or 4 Li-on packs and a charger with you, you can keep going for a pretty long time without daily access to an electrical outlet.

If the AA Dinotte lights will take AA NiMH batteries, they'll take AA alkaline. While on tour, you really don't want to be messing with carrying a charger and a bunch of extra batteries. AA alkalines are cheap and readily available. For day to day use rechargeables make sense but this would be a special application.

If the AA Dinotte lights will take AA NiMH batteries, they'll take AA alkaline. While on tour, you really don't want to be messing with carrying a charger and a bunch of extra batteries. AA alkalines are cheap and readily available. For day to day use rechargeables make sense but this would be a special application.

Dinotte says (http://www.dinottelighting.com/manuals/FAQ%20-%20AA.pdf) that alkalines will only run 30 minutes on high, when they quote 2 hours on rechargeable batteries.

I get 3 hours on high with my rechargable 2650 Duracells. Running on medium would double that runtime to about 6 hours. But the top acceptable speed on medium would probably be around 14 mph, instead of the 18-20 mph on high. That's probably acceptable for touring.

I use a cheap overnight charger, it's tiny and would travel well. But it takes 6-8 hours to recharge a set. Perhaps a fast one hour charger would work, but I've never tried one.

Somehow, I'm going to get a dynamo hub and front-rear lights. I recently upgraded my sister's bike with such a setup as a Christmas present, and she absolutely loves it.

The amount of light I get from my Dinotte front & rear lights is fantastic, but I'm already tired of swapping batteries in and out. No other battery-powered light will be any better, either. Time to piece together my "dream commuter" bike...

Dinotte says (http://www.dinottelighting.com/manuals/FAQ%20-%20AA.pdf) that alkalines will only run 30 minutes on high, when they quote 2 hours on rechargeable batteries.

I get 3 hours on high with my rechargable 2650 Duracells. Running on medium would double that runtime to about 6 hours. But the top acceptable speed on medium would probably be around 14 mph, instead of the 18-20 mph on high. That's probably acceptable for touring.

I use a cheap overnight charger, it's tiny and would travel well. But it takes 6-8 hours to recharge a set. Perhaps a fast one hour charger would work, but I've never tried one.

I'm thinking about something like a Dinotte for commuting (this summer my commute is going to be about 2 hours often in the dark) and brevets. If I'm gone for several days on a long distance trip I'm not going to have access to electricity to plug in a charger.

Anyway, I'm thinking about going for two Fenix L2Ds, it'll be a pain and expensive replacing batteries but I won't be powering them all night every night but knowing if I run out I can just pick up extra batteries at just about any gas station or general store.

I've heard there are solar powered rechargers, anyone have experience with something like that?

.... Seems a lot of people also use the Cateye EL530 I might give that a go too....

Its a little underpowered stock but the runtime is great (4aa should last 8hrs) and you can easily upgrade the LED (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167551) to double the output. Running two would be a good idea.

This light will go all week but then you need to charge it.
This company probably makes the best bike lights in the whole world.


http://gretnabikes.com/item.asp?PID=90

Burn Time 22W: 6 Hrs.
Burn Time 9W: 13 Hrs.
Burn Time 1W: 84 Hrs.
Burn Time .25W: 336 Hrs.
Charge Time: 8 Hrs.
Weight: 810g
Light Output: 1400 Lumens

I have done countless nightime centuries with another light from this company.
I have 900 lumens for 5 hours or 500 lumens for eight hours. In the summer where I live that goes from dusk to dawn.

I've heard there are solar powered rechargers, anyone have experience with something like that?I was about to suggest that. I have the Silva Solar II (http://www.silva.se/templates/Products____95.aspx?epslanguage=EN&productId={A5BF6140-CFAE-49A0-83AE-3C156B2E8F33}) -charger that I can hook up with my 12V AA/AAA battery charger. It works, but it's slow. I only use it for 1-2 batteries at a time. They also have a model with ready-made battery holder for two AAs. These are small panels, Silva claim 5hrs charge time for 2 AA batteries at 1600mAh. And that's in ideal conditions (meaning, among other things, that the entire panel is fully exposed to sun and at ideal angle). In real life, I don't get anywhere near that.

I've also looked into getting a bigger panel. There are flexible panels that can be rolled up when not in use, but I have not been able to find a ready-made charger package. The ones that provide direct 12V output seem to be geared towards marine use and are either too big, heavy and/or expensive for my use. Undoubtadly it would be no big deal to make one yourself, if you have the electrical know-how. I don't.

--J

I was about to suggest that. I have the Silva Solar II (http://www.silva.se/templates/Products____95.aspx?epslanguage=EN&productId={A5BF6140-CFAE-49A0-83AE-3C156B2E8F33}) -charger that I can hook up with my 12V AA/AAA battery charger. It works, but it's slow. I only use it for 1-2 batteries at a time. They also have a model with ready-made battery holder for two AAs. These are small panels, Silva claim 5hrs charge time for 2 AA batteries at 1600mAh. And that's in ideal conditions (meaning, among other things, that the entire panel is fully exposed to sun and at ideal angle). In real life, I don't get anywhere near that.

I've also looked into getting a bigger panel. There are flexible panels that can be rolled up when not in use, but I have not been able to find a ready-made charger package. The ones that provide direct 12V output seem to be geared towards marine use and are either too big, heavy and/or expensive for my use. Undoubtadly it would be no big deal to make one yourself, if you have the electrical know-how. I don't.

--J


Bottom line.......you won't get enough juice during the day with panels you can carry comfortably to give you the power you take to light your ride all night. Especially if you need the light every night.
Also as you say, reality gives you lots of variables that reduce the charging even more.

I've heard there are solar powered rechargers, anyone have experience with something like that?
I've tried solar panels. There not worth the cost and harassment involved. You need to keep the panel in the sun which requires moving it around to different parts of the bike so your own shadow is not blocking it. Recharging is slow. It's also useless if your on a shaded rail trail or MUP. Setting up a dynamo to charge batteries is much better and lots faster.
My current setup uses a dynamo to run an LED headlight, taillight, and USB connector. The 4 NiMH batteries regulate voltage and current for the LED's and devices connected to the USB connector. They do a very nice job supplying clean power as the AC power produced by the dynamo is very nasty even with the bridge rectifier. Adding the batteries also provides several hours of burn time with the dynamo disengaged. I carry a Palm TIX PDA and a Bluetooth GPS unit as I tour and can operate and recharge both from the USB connector. You can run the lights or have devices connected to the USB port but not both at the same time.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/all-standlightUSB-1.jpg

I'm thinking about something like a Dinotte for commuting (this summer my commute is going to be about 2 hours often in the dark) and brevets. If I'm gone for several days on a long distance trip I'm not going to have access to electricity to plug in a charger.

Anyway, I'm thinking about going for two Fenix L2Ds, it'll be a pain and expensive replacing batteries but I won't be powering them all night every night but knowing if I run out I can just pick up extra batteries at just about any gas station or general store.

I've heard there are solar powered rechargers, anyone have experience with something like that?

I do not own a Dinotte 200L. I however own a Dinotte 140L tail light. I also own a solar charging system as well. I use the Isun 2.2W + Isun BattPak. The Battpak can charge 10xAA and it optimized to charge faster with 4+ cells chambered. It can be charged via the Isun/AC/DC. The Isun solar panel clips on the back of the Battpak. The Isun panel is also daisy chainable for more power.

Now from my research of the Dinotte you may want to get 2 x 200L models that take 4xAA (meaning 4xAA x 2) that way you ride at night with dual lights on at low power or have one on high/mid while the other is on low or off to save power. Becasue the whole setup is AA based you can get AA's anywhere you want.

If you do stop by places regularly along your riding route then going totally into the wild then you may want to look into a 15min battery charger. Those chargers give ~85% charge in 15mins from all the data I've read. You can stop by for a coffee/donut and sit down by a power outlet if you can find one and stick your cells in to the charger and quickly top up your cells or charge the dead ones. The charger however feels about ~2lbs in weight when I held one in the store. The extra 2lbs maybe a good trade off given you can charge ~16AA's in one hours time if you cycled 4 cells each time every 15mins on the dot. For a complete charge you need to keep the cells in the charger for a few extra hours tho.

Get yourself 4 packs of 4AA 2700mAh cells and you should be good to go for your night rides and extended riding at night. The best hybrid AA's right now are Maha 2100mAh. Hybrid batteries hold ~85% power for one year according to factory specifications. Normal NIMH will be dead by then. That said that means with hybrid NIMH cells you get less juice but very low self discharge which is good. You could almost consider them alkaline ready to use anytime cells. Hybrid NIMH's come pre-charged and ready to use out the packaging. Normal NIMH's need the initial charge before using.

You may want to consider getting 3 x 4packs of 2700mAh cells and one pack of 2100mAh hybrid NIMH cells so you're covered with your cells. The 2100mAh is your emergency set while the rest keep getting used all the time.

Big lithium ion battery + solar panel + solar charge controller + LED lights = the solution.

Big lithium ion battery + solar panel + solar charge controller + LED lights = the solution.

Nothing is perfect, but that's as close as you can possibly get to a solution. It's the best idea yet.

The light I recommended takes care of the LED's with a huge lithium ion battery.

On one watt it will go 84 hours.
say 10 hours on at night, 8.4 days plus what the charger adds.

Down to .25 watt it will go 336 hours. As far as I know this is absolutly the best possible light for this in the whole world. 10 hours a night = over a month.
The OP is looking for 2 to 3 weeks without recharging.
Here it is, and it's a fantastic light also. Lightweight, convenient and high quality.

You could even skip the solar stuff. Or with the solar panels you could run the light at a brighter setting when you have the juice available.

I don't think there is any light on the planet that will beat this and be top quality too. If there is I would like to learn about it.

If the AA Dinotte lights will take AA NiMH batteries, they'll take AA alkaline. While on tour, you really don't want to be messing with carrying a charger and a bunch of extra batteries. AA alkalines are cheap and readily available. For day to day use rechargeables make sense but this would be a special application.

If you want your 200L to last all of 30 minutes, use alkalines. The manual specifically warns about this.

You could even skip the solar stuff. Or with the solar panels you could run the light at a brighter setting when you have the juice available.If we're talking about 2-3 weeks of riding, OP is obviously going to have to get some sleep somewhere in between. If he likes to ride at night, that leaves daytime for resting. Solar panel would do reasonably well in camp (at least when compared to using it while riding).

But how about a small windmill attached to the rear rack? :D

--J

If we're talking about 2-3 weeks of riding, OP is obviously going to have to get some sleep somewhere in between. If he likes to ride at night, that leaves daytime for resting. Solar panel would do reasonably well in camp (at least when compared to using it while riding).

But how about a small windmill attached to the rear rack? :D

--J

:D:D Oh yeah ! Sleep ! I forgot about that. The windmill will work at rest too if it's windy. :D:D

I was serious about the solar panel, BTW. A solar cell like THIS (http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2706) that rolls up for storage could easily recharge your light during the day. Heck, you could even drape it across a trailer or a set of panniers and have it charge your batteries while you're riding!

If you want your 200L to last all of 30 minutes, use alkalines. The manual specifically warns about this.

Then the 200L wouldn't be a good choice, would it? I find it a little bizarre that the supposedly highly efficient LED can't run more then 30 minutes on alkalines. I have a Nitehawk emmitter that seems to run much longer on AA alkalines then the very expensive 200L. At least I think it does. It's been a couple of years (I don't use it all the time but I've used it for longer then 30 minutes) since I changed the batteries;)

You also seem to be forgetting the original problem...lighting while touring. Rechargeables make absolutely no sense on tour. You either have to cart around the charger and hope that you have a ready outlet when you need it or you have to try to McGuiver something on the bike. When your bike is already overloaded with stuff, that's not often a good option. Going disposable for a few weeks isn't going to destroy the planet. If you want to atone for your sins, you can wait until you get home...I hear HellMart has a sale on hair shirts and flails:D

I was serious about the solar panel, BTW. A solar cell like THIS (http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2706) that rolls up for storage could easily recharge your light during the day. Heck, you could even drape it across a trailer or a set of panniers and have it charge your batteries while you're riding!
been there and tried that. I tried really hard to use a solar panel and spent more on it than than what I would have spent on a quality hub dynamo. You MUST move the solar panel around to keep it in the sun. Your never going to be able to stop and remount it every time you change direction. A dynamo is so much better and easier. Ni-MH batteries like 500mA of current for rapid recharging which happens to be the current produced by any type of bicycle dynamo. No complicated circuits are needed to control the power produced by the dynamo. All you do is calculate the amount of time required to recharge the batteries, reset the trip time on your cycle computer, and when the calculated time required to recharge the batteries shows on the cycle computer you simply disengage it. The cycle computer will automatically stop when you stop and automatically start again when your moving. I just write the time on a small peace of white tape stuck on the bike to remind me when the batteries are charged. A solar panel capable of producing 500mA is huge and must be carefully positioned to produce full output in full sunlight. A solar panel is fine if it's placed on a stand in the sun and you can go over and reposition it every couple of hours, but then you would not be on the bike touring. Sorry but anyone suggesting a solar panel for recharging batteries while your riding a bike has never tried it.

Rechargeables make absolutely no sense on tour.This of course depends entirely on what kind of touring one does and whether one has mains power available during breaks. My charger recharges 4 AAs in about an hour, and it's definitely not the fastest charger around. That's about the time it takes for me to have a relaxed lunch & rest at a roadside cafeteria. I rarely use anything else than rechargeables anymore. For OP's kind of touring they may or may not work, depending on where he sleeps.

And as mentioned by n4zou, myself and others, solar panels are tricky when riding. I bought mine originally for kayaking tours, where there's seldom mains power available and it's easier to guarantee proper exposure for the panels, wheather permitting. Even on those tours, panels make the most sense in a camp during a rest day.

--J

I've read through a lot of threads looked at a lot of lights but I'm having trouble finding the best solution, if there a a good thread I've missed please point me in that direction. I'm a long-distance cyclist (although fairly new at it) so I often ride all night and I am sometimes gone for days at a time (this summer I'm planning a 5000km trip that should take anywhere from 2 to 3 weeks). Last summer I used the BLT super dopler dx which provided a good flood from my experience but the bluish light made it hard to see definition.

I'm thinking about adding another light or going to two new lights and probably the only solution would be to use alkaline batteries which I can get at most general stores. It would pretty much need to last the entire night and be powerful enough to see where I'm going on roads with no lighting at all and since I'm going to be expending enough energy keeping myself going I really don't want to go for a generator. What are my best options?

Thanks!

Since you don't want to mess with recharging batteries, you need a decently bright light with a long runtime using standard batteries. The Cygolite Hi-Flux 100 seems like it would work. It has a runtime of 25 hours using 4 "C" batteries so you won't be spending a fortune on batteries like you would with a lot of more powerful lights. I've read a couple blogs where randonneurs like this light a lot. I don't have this light, I have the 200L but obviously it eats batteries too quickly. The Hi-Flux 100 isn't as bright as the Dinotte or some of the monster halogens and HIDs that use rechargeables, but for a light that uses batteries that you can pick up at any gas station, it looks very good. The website claims it is equal to a 10 watt halogen, and based on what I've read it is much brighter than a Cateye EL-500 which is a very common light you may be familiar with. Obviously it is not the brightest light out there, but it seems like a good compromise for your situation.http://cygolite.com/2-Products/3-Hiflux100.htm

http://www.cygolite.com/2-Products/3-HIFLUX%20100-2%20in%201.gif

Dood.. that 1400lm light is ~$1200 USD for that 84hr low run time. Holy jumping potatos Batman. That is fricking expensive. Probably the OP's cost of thier bike already. Damn.....

The more I think about it, the more and more I see a hub dynamo in my future. Especially as LEDs become more efficient, a 3W LED up front and a 1/2 W LED rear supplemented by backups seems like a near-complete solution to road riding.

Dood.. that 1400lm light is ~$1200 USD for that 84hr low run time. Holy jumping potatos Batman. That is fricking expensive. Probably the OP's cost of thier bike already. Damn.....

I know. :)

But there's nothing else that will do exactly what the OP wants. And......... do it very well, be very lightweight, and high quality too. You get what you pay for.

To each his own.

Dood.. that 1400lm light is ~$1200 USD for that 84hr low run time. Holy jumping potatos Batman. That is fricking expensive. Probably the OP's cost of thier bike already. Damn.....

Actually more like a quarter of the cost but still too expensive (in terms of money, weight, and space) for a light that will still probably run out and have no hope of being recharged if I run it on a higher setting (which I'd probably need to do).

I got a Fenix and I'm doing a century next week, because of the short days I'll probably be using it for an hour or two. I think I'll also take some of the better ideas to the long distance forum and hopefully get some more opinions there.

Thanks again guys!

Edit: I didn't realize it is less than 2lbs but still, water is a little more important than light when it comes to riding across the continent.

Actually more like a quarter of the cost but still too expensive (in terms of money, weight, and space) for a light that will still probably run out and have no hope of being recharged if I run it on a higher setting (which I'd probably need to do).

I got a Fenix and I'm doing a century next week, because of the short days I'll probably be using it for an hour or two. I think I'll also take some of the better ideas to the long distance forum and hopefully get some more opinions there.

Thanks again guys!

Edit: I didn't realize it is less than 2lbs but still, water is a little more important than light when it cometo riding across the continent.
You don't have to chose between water and a water bottle battery, you can have both. I do it on many different bikes and have photos of most of them with this set up. The first photo in my sig, you can see the wire going to the battery strapped to the top tube, and just the top of the cage that straps to the frame.
You can have three bottles and a water bottle battery if you want to.
I use two water bottles on long rides and the identical battery as the Betty in a twofish velcro on bottle cage to hold the battery on the top tube.
That takes up less space than anything else that way. Of course this works on any water bottle battery, not just the Lupine. Nothing else will go as long as that, and weigh as little as the Betty. I don't mean you need to get one, I'm just saying that's the way it is. You get a better lighter battery for top dollar.

The more I think about it, the more and more I see a hub dynamo in my future. Especially as LEDs become more efficient, a 3W LED up front and a 1/2 W LED rear supplemented by backups seems like a near-complete solution to road riding.

+1 (even though I mentioned the same thing earlier ;) )

There's a Dahon Mu XL on Craigslist that I should jump on -- besides an 8-speed internal hub, it includes a dynamo front hub and front & rear lights. Talk about a complete go-anywhere-anytime package.