Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Raam 2009

Hi.

Has anyone heard anything about whether there's going to be a RAAM qualifier in 2008 in the western states, other than Race Across Oregon?

JP

Hi.

Has anyone heard anything about whether there's going to be a RAAM qualifier in 2008 in the western states, other than Race Across Oregon?

JP

I believe pretty much any 24-hour race can be a qualifier. Check out my Links page for a list of 24-hour races: http://www.machka.net/links.htm

Some 1200K randonnees can also be qualifiers, but I'm not sure if there are any 1200Ks being run in the US this year.

I believe pretty much any 24-hour race can be a qualifier. Check out my Links page for a list of 24-hour races: http://www.machka.net/links.htm

Some 1200K randonnees can also be qualifiers, but I'm not sure if there are any 1200Ks being run in the US this year.

SIR's running the Cascade 1200 this year, and I know the poster asked about western states, but DC has also said that they'll be running a new 1200 in the Shenandoah Valley. Also, I believe that any 1200k can be used as a RAAM qualifier. It doesn't have to be US-specific. So the Rocky Mountain 1200 would also be valid.

Is Furnace Creek 508 no longer a qualifier? I don't see them on the list this year.

Is Furnace Creek 508 no longer a qualifier? I don't see them on the list this year.

From http://www.ultracycling.com/standings/jmc.html:


Chris Kostman wrote to me, UMCA President Joe Jamison and UMCA Treasurer Russ Loomis withdrawing his events from UMCA programs:

In a message dated 1/9/08 6:42:41 PM, info@adventurecorps.com writes:
"So long as you remain at the helm of the UMCA, and the UMCA-RAAM relationship remains status quo, we will no longer be supporting, promoting, or participating in any UMCARAAM programs, advertising in the magazine, or the like. That includes no connection or relationship of any kind between Furnace Creek 508 and UMCARAAM. "

Sounds acrimonious. Anyone know what's going on with that?

Sounds acrimonious. Anyone know what's going on with that?

You will find a lot of information on this issue here: http://ultracycling-us.blogspot.com/

You will find a lot of information on this issue here: http://ultracycling-us.blogspot.com/

OK, so I read the blog. It appears that a handful of people are upset about UMCA politics. While I can understand folks wanting to get involved in that sort of stuff, most of us just want to ride our bikes. And while some of us aspire to compete in RAAM someday; I imagine the vast majority of distance cyclists, and even UMCA members, don't.

Personal issues aside, the events are supposed to be for the cylists. What about the cyclists???

JP

PS

This is now on the Furnace Creek 508 website:

"The self-appointed and virtually unknown "governing body" of ultracycling, the UMCA, bought the Race Across AMerica over a year ago and spends the overwhelmingly majority of its time, resources, magazine pages, money, and efforts to promote RAAM. We do not think this is what a governing body should be doing, nor do we think it is in the best interest of the sport, the athletes, or all the other great races that make up the backbone of ultracycling.

The founders of the UMCA (and RAAM), John Marino and Michael Shermer, vehemently oppose this relationship between the UMCA and RAAM, as well as how the most recent UMCA board of directors election was handled. So do we. Until the UMCA proves that it deserves our support, and its tax-exempt "non-profit" status, we will no longer endorse, support, or participate in any UMCARAAM program"

What about the racers who WANT to qualify for RAAM and WANT to do so at his race? Can they no longer do both? How is THAT in the best interests of the sport or the athletes?

Wasn't Mr. Kostman running for a board position of the UMCA in the last election?

Something is fishy here.

I've been to the UMCA website and see that the UMCA promotes distance cycling with many programs, and does NOT focus only on RAAM. There's the UltraCup and the Year-Rounder. The UMCA keeps track of distance cycling records and is a great resource for all kinds of distance events (centuries, doubles, 24 hour races, 500 mile races). Mr. Kostman's statements simply aren't true.

He may have personal issues with the UMCA. But the UMCA has always been responsible for qualifying racers for RAAM (regardless of who owns RAAM). And Furnace Creek has always been a qualifier. But not anymore, thanks to Mr. Kostman. BAD for the racers. BAD for the sport. BAD to allow politics to interfere with cycling.

My two cents.

JP

PS

This is now on the Furnace Creek 508 website:

"The self-appointed and virtually unknown "governing body" of ultracycling, the UMCA, bought the Race Across AMerica over a year ago and spends the overwhelmingly majority of its time, resources, magazine pages, money, and efforts to promote RAAM. We do not think this is what a governing body should be doing, nor do we think it is in the best interest of the sport, the athletes, or all the other great races that make up the backbone of ultracycling.

The founders of the UMCA (and RAAM), John Marino and Michael Shermer, vehemently oppose this relationship between the UMCA and RAAM, as well as how the most recent UMCA board of directors election was handled. So do we. Until the UMCA proves that it deserves our support, and its tax-exempt "non-profit" status, we will no longer endorse, support, or participate in any UMCARAAM program"

What about the racers who WANT to qualify for RAAM and WANT to do so at his race? Can they no longer do both? How is THAT in the best interests of the sport or the athletes?

Wasn't Mr. Kostman running for a board position of the UMCA in the last election?

Something is fishy here.

I've been to the UMCA website and see that the UMCA promotes distance cycling with many programs, and does NOT focus only on RAAM. There's the UltraCup and the Year-Rounder. The UMCA keeps track of distance cycling records and is a great resource for all kinds of distance events (centuries, doubles, 24 hour races, 500 mile races). Mr. Kostman's statements simply aren't true.

He may have personal issues with the UMCA. But the UMCA has always been responsible for qualifying racers for RAAM (regardless of who owns RAAM). And Furnace Creek has always been a qualifier. But not anymore, thanks to Mr. Kostman. BAD for the racers. BAD for the sport. BAD to allow politics to interfere with cycling.

My two cents.

JP

A bunch of stuff happened last winter with politics and the BoD election. Yes, Mr. Kostman was running for a seat, along with many others.

I am a UMCA member and I began questioning some of the politics and motives on the old Topica email list. After posting some serious questions I was called by several higher ups in the RAAM and UMCA. When does a lowly slow guy who just joined get calls from the higher ups? Its one thing to discuss politics on an e-list - it is quite another to dig through the members directory and call someone at home to persuade a person to their point of view.

Anyway, not long after some off lists emails and phone calls happened the current president of the UMCA made very public withdrawal from the BoD election and from the UMCA (http://groups.google.com/group/ultracycling/msg/9d3dda440b7f6500?dmode=source). Mysteriously he won a seat on the BoD, despite pulling out and wanting to have nothing to do with the organization anymore for fear of legal issues. He is now the president, and resided over an 'impartial' panel to investigate whether the last election was fair. (made up of current BoD members, and excluding the losing candidates - who are also members, if I recall)

Yes, there is something fishy here - like the RAAM sale and purchase, the motives of those involved, and why a non-profit governing body needs to 'own' the 'rights' to a race, and spend most of its resources promoting it.


I'd be curious to know what motivates 2 of the earliest legends of the sport, both founders of the UMCA, to be opposed to current management, practices, and policies.

I will not re-up my membership with the UMCA. I don't think the organization is acting in the best interests of the members, I question the transparency of the current management and BoD, I feel the egos of several of the higher ups are getting in the way of developing a truly members driven, non profit, educational group, and I feel the the 'race' and competition mentality from the cycling translates down to how the organization is run - with stonewalling, intimidation, and name calling all part of business as usual.

While there is no-way that I could ever commit to RAAM - I did join the UMCA for the resouces on training and the options for 12 and 24 hours events, as well as the year rounder. Since last winter's events I've decided that I'll stick with sending my money and support to RUSA. The people, events, and rides are much more 'my speed'. And it seems that people are far more willing to help new riders, as well as be transparent in how the organization gets things done - and while RUSA does focus on PBP every 4 years - I do not get the sense that PBP is the end all and be all of RUSA - there are so many many other rides for people of all abilities to get an intro to the sport - and the organization itself seems so much more inclusive.


YMMV - but I was totally turned off by the behavior of some of the RAAM and UMCA upper management.

In regards to the 508 - it is Mr. Kostmans event. He can run it as he sees fit - no? Unlike the UMCA, the 508 is a privately operated affair. He's making a business decision as well as a political one - if people feel like you do - well then no-one will ride.

I feel at least slightly vindicated. As a long time UMCA spectator/critic I was sure that John Marino never supported the idea that the UMCA board should directly use organization resources to promote RAAM.

Although Marino envisioned the UMCA as an organization that could generate interest and participants for RAAM, he also understood the necessity of affording all cyclists interested in ultra cycling fair representation in determining how the organization conducted ALL ultra rides / events.

It's pretty obvious, the guys who created the UMCA are pissed off about how it turned out. I've been saying something like that for years......

Anything that gains popularity ends up this way. The founders have a great idea and build a reputation for promoting that idea in an ethical way. Then, someone else realizes they can make money off it by keeping the image but rejecting the old ideas by cutting costs, outsourcing etc. to make a bigger profit.

Anything that gains popularity ends up this way. The founders have a great idea and build a reputation for promoting that idea in an ethical way. Then, someone else realizes they can make money off it by keeping the image but rejecting the old ideas by cutting costs, outsourcing etc. to make a bigger profit.

but in this case, RAAM never really made money, and the UMCA went non-profit to promote and educate and qualify folks for LD races and events. last winter the UMCA, through some murky use of 'angels' and one time donations, purchased the intellectual 'property' of RAAM. meanwhile a separate group formed a for-profit company to put on the race and handle the day to day. this separate company is made up of some of the very people who voted on the sale sale and purchase of the 'rights' to RAAM to the UMCA. some have since stepped down, others have not, and others we'll never know - as there are several folks who wish to be anonymous in the whole deal.

these folks made a 1 time, limited donation to the UMCA with the limit that it could only be used to buy the 'rights' to RAAM. the official story is that these people were very very scared that RAAM would die, and the 'keystone' event for the ultracycling crowd would disappear.

i have asked, and was shot down repeatedly when i did ask - why, if these angels were so concerned about RAAM's future, why didn't they just team up and buy the damned thing outright? why did they need to run the money through the UMCA's books? why not take on the whole thing, if it is such a win win deal for the UMCA, wouldn't it have been for the 'angels'?

PS This is now on the Furnace Creek 508 website:
"The self-appointed and virtually unknown "governing body" of ultracycling, the UMCA...we will no longer endorse, support, or participate in any UMCARAAM program"


Given that I got a mass mailing from the Furnace Creek organizers just the other day, it would the "virtually unknown" UMCA's member mailing list was of some use to them.

To the original question. On the UMCA site it appears that formal qualifiers are in Alaska, Oregon and Texas.

To the original question. On the UMCA site it appears that formal qualifiers are in Alaska, Oregon and Texas.

The Hoodoo 500 is also an official RAAM qualifier for 2008 and beyond.

Although the UMCA UltraCup calendar has our event listed, they have yet to update the website page about RAAM Qualifiers; although it is official now - and the announcement has been sent out.

In addition to the 500-mile RAAM-style races, one may also qualify for RAAM in other ways. There are three 24 hour races and you can also do any one of the annual 1200k randonees.

Deb Bowling
Planet Ultra