Foo - Windows Weenies: Don't Look Back, Someone May Be Gaining on You

From TheStreet.com:

>>Apple's share of the US domestic PC market has moved up steadily from 6.8% in November, 7.3% in December and as high as 8% in the days after the holiday shopping season, according to NetApplications, which tracks browsers and operating system<<

At that rate Apple will have 100% of the domestic market within ten years.

I love it.

Smokin' crack again, eh?

Being despised by Windows Idiots is its own reward. I will PM all of you when Apple revenues surpass those of Microsoft sometime between 2012 and 2014. Stay tuned. Actually by then my Apple stock should be $800+ per share, and I'll hire some Windows sap to notify you for me.

Does this mean hackers will start targeting Macs? :p

If you remember, Bill Gates dumped a ton on money into Apple so he wouldn't
face anti-trust suits....

I like Apple. They make great stuff.

Different strokes for different folks. The game I am playing now is Crysis. Apple
doesn't do DX10. In fact, while Apple gets a lot of press for innovating, most of the innovation comes out of the open platform world which is dominated by Windows. Saw a review yesterday comparing an Apple and Dell LCD monitor. Both had the exact same video device. There were some differences in the electronics controlling it and in the software.

The Apple was a little nicer, but the Dell cost about half as much.

C'est la vie...

From TheStreet.com:

>>Apple's share of the US domestic PC market has moved up steadily from 6.8% in November, 7.3% in December and as high as 8% in the days after the holiday shopping season, according to NetApplications, which tracks browsers and operating system<<

At that rate Apple will have 100% of the domestic market within ten years.

I love it.
Given that they had the same market share 12 years ago as they do now, your predictions seem like a no brainer. There's absolutely no way that any of this recent meteoric rise has anything to do with the iPhone or iPod, so I'm sure the business world will switch over shortly.

Hopefully, by that time they take over, they will be issuing mice with two buttons standard. Also, since supply and demand already has mac hardware overpriced, maybe there will be more than one company that you'll be able to get it from.

Here we go, another Mac stoner, declaring victory from the lofty perspective of a single-digit market share.:roflmao:

http://www.youtube.com/v/JixbzFjv_cU

I think maybe they already have. My daughter inserted a music CD a friend had made into her Mac and the machine turned into a snail.

So much so that we took it to an Apple store. After a week they returned it to us in worse shape. We ended up having to reload the OS and losing all her info. The machine would only lock up when we tried to use the recovery mode.

So they ain't perfect. But I have nothing against Apple. I used an Apple II in the early 80's, and was it a Lisa?, maybe it was the very first Mac version, back around '84.

So in 10 years, all Macs will have going for them is a cute GUI. Somehow I think market domination is a long ways off...

a single-digit market share.

Single digit market share = Maximum Blue Sky.

... Also, since supply and demand already has mac hardware overpriced, maybe there will be more than one company that you'll be able to get it from.

That there is the key. Apple seems intent on following the Bose business model - which is to make cool stuff, and market it to the suckers who don't mind paying twice what it ought to cost. That model needs to be modified, or 15% market share will never happen.

Here we go, another Mac stoner, declaring victory from the lofty perspective of a single-digit market share.:roflmao:
Hey, don't knock it. It only took them 32 years to achieve that position where Microsoft had the benefit of jumping in the market a year earlier. The momentum is obvious.

Eh. I'm sure Apple is doing a lot better than it was a few years ago, sales wise, but "market share" has always been a BS-y, hand-wavy statistic when it comes to comparing Macs and Windows PCs. (And I don't say this from a position of Windows fandom. I can't stand Windows.) Installed base would be a much more useful statistic, but it's difficult/impossible to come up with an accurate number.

From TheStreet.com:

>>Apple's share of the US domestic PC market has moved up steadily from 6.8% in November, 7.3% in December and as high as 8% in the days after the holiday shopping season, according to NetApplications, which tracks browsers and operating system<<

At that rate Apple will have 100% of the domestic market within ten years.

I love it.

.5% in one month, .7% the next. Let's take that as an average of .6% growth per month. I'll take the assumption that its steady growth, though there is no evidence.


.6% x 12 months = 7.2% per year
7.2% x 10 years = 100% ???????

Is that Apple math?

No offense Pcad, but it's more likely that MAC/Apple will NEVER have the majority of market share, let alone 100%. People generally seem to overlook the possibility of some other (maybe as yet unknown) OS coming along at just the right junction of time & technology and taking the world by storm. Who knows. I find it hard to believe that MAC will ever have the largest market share and 100% is a whimsical pipe dream IMO.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

/thread

Heh. I love Maddox.

I'm in the "use whatever computer you want" camp, but I hate the fanboys. Heck, I programmed NeXT computers over a decade ago and swore I'd never go back to Windows. That was one nice OS, even by today's standards. (Steve Jobs's company if you didnt know.) Then I switched jobs. :o

I've used every version of Windows except ME and Vista. Never had any problems with any of them, and I beat the $(!*& out of my computers, application-wise.

Our Vista Home Premium Edition-equipped XPS M1530 arrives on Thursday. Maybe I'll change my mind after that. :D :eek:

People generally seem to overlook the possibility of some other (maybe as yet unknown) OS coming along at just the right junction of time & technology and taking the world by storm.
They also overlook the fact that most people don't give a damn nor should they about OS wars, browser wars, or any ideological battles. They'll buy stuff if it does what they want and the price is right.

I'd buy an iPhone myself except you're locked into an expensive contract (prices range from $720 to over $2400/yr and only includes 200 SMS messages) with ATT which has not faired well in customer satisfaction in recent years. In addition I really wasn't impressed with that trick Apple pulled a few months back that purposely wrecked all the phones that had outside software installed on them.

If you look past some of the idiotic "function follows form" things Apple does to make their computers different rather than better, they make some decent stuff. However, it's locked up and overpriced much worse than M$.

Heh. I love Maddox.


Our Vista Home Premium Edition-equipped XPS M1530 arrives on Thursday. Maybe I'll change my mind after that. :D :eek:

I think you'll like your M1530. I was originally after a 15" MBP, but chose Dell XPS M1330 for 3 reasons:
1. Runs Windows, so runs all my stuff.
2. Wanted 13" laptop, MBP currently doesn't come in 13" size (might change this week with rumoured ultra portable Mac).
3. The Dell's a very attractive looking computer.

Downsides: Vista is ok for the 'surface' stuff, but after using it for a few weeks (ie, after I've moved most of my apps to it), it seems slow. Cant wait for SP1.

TIP FOR YOUR M1530: DONT EJECT THE DVD DRIVE UNTIL THE MACHINE HAS SETTLED DOWN (after a login for example) OR IT'LL FREEZE.

Pcad, perhaps you can convince Steve Jobs to HTFU and release a 12.1" widescreen Macbook Pro with an integrated optical drive. I hate the keyboards on the white/black Macbooks and they have not had a 12" size under the top tier for a few years now.

Our Vista Home Premium Edition-equipped XPS M1530 arrives on Thursday. Maybe I'll change my mind after that. :D :eek:

I'm running Vista Home Premium on an HP Pavillion Elite, and the only issue I've encountered is a Media Center glitch with some InterActive Media enabled DVDs. Media Center doesn't like to bypass the interactive features and just play the movie, and I don't feel like installing InterActive's application on my machine.
Outside of that, everything has been running really well. I think you'll like it, once you get past the Vista learning curve. Visually it's very pretty, but when you're used to XP it's a pretty big change to make. Locations and names for familiar applications are not the same. If you're using a wide-aspect monitor, the dashboard widgets are nice to have. (totally unnecessary, but nice.)

How about 110% by 2020? That works.

You should have left that post up mlts22. I agree with you completely. Every single point I would have posted but just don't have the time. Especially the point about viruses etc.

In short, Mac is almost there but not quite, especially on the administrative end of the scale (server or desktop), if they play the market right and read the part of the market they largely ignore, then they could come up with a killer product. Usable, scalable, easily administered in a domain environment etc.

I will keep my left eye on the market, while I am not jumping off my bandwagon yet, I will be prepared to if they can come to the ball game with the right equipment. Right now they are only ready to scrimmage in a business environment.

Then again, I am not a weenie and far from a microsoft weenie. Right now they offer a series of products for medium business that is largely untouchable imo (there are options but they tend to cost more and require most admistrative work). I use a few unix boxes for their purposes as well.

You should have left that post up mlts22. I agree with you completely. Every single point I would have posted but just don't have the time. Especially the point about viruses etc.

In short, Mac is almost there but not quite, especially on the administrative end of the scale (server or desktop), if they play the market right and read the part of the market they largely ignore, then they could come up with a killer product. Usable, scalable, easily administered in a domain environment etc.

I will keep my left eye on the market, while I am not jumping off my bandwagon yet, I will be prepared to if they can come to the ball game with the right equipment. Right now they are only ready to scrimmage in a business environment.

Then again, I am not a weenie and far from a microsoft weenie. Right now they offer a series of products for medium business that is largely untouchable imo (there are options but they tend to cost more and require most admistrative work). I use a few unix boxes for their purposes as well.

You may not have noticed, but that is all Apple has been doing for the past decade. Longer, actually, but I'm talking to the unwashed Windows Masses.

You may not have noticed, but that is all Apple has been doing for the past decade. Longer, actually, but I'm talking to the unwashed Windows Masses.

No, they read a single part of the market (home user). The largely ignore the other half (is it even half, I forget the stats of commercial vs home use)

How about 110% by 2020? That works.

2020 => 12 years away

12 x 7.2% = 86.4% STOP USING THAT MAC calculator. Get one that works already. :p

No, they read a single part of the market (home user). The largely ignore the other half (is it even half, I forget the stats of commercial vs home use)

Uh huh. I was talking about how they went from $6 billion in annual sales to $30 billion + since 2000. Something's working.

2020 => 12 years away

12 x 7.2% = 86.4% STOP USING THAT MAC calculator. Get one that works already. :pWow, I didn't know MAC (http://www.mactools.com/Mac/) made calculators! Or is it a promotional item from the other MAC (http://www.maccosmetics.com/)?

</pedant>

Uh huh. I was talking about how they went from $6 billion in annual sales to $30 billion + since 2000. Something's working.

...and most of that is residential usage.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me, I agree with you for the most part, I am just saying they are far from ready on the administrative end to take down the domain based networks in most companies. Unless you actually disagree with that point, then I will simply end the discussion as you obviously have Mac blinders on and are as adamant about the god fairing ways of Mac as those jackasses who believe Windows is the one and only OS.

I believe Mac has a good start, they still have work to do to convince people like me (who spends a 1/4 million (which is small potatoes) a year on products just like they make) that their product will work in a secured, administrative environment. Give them a few years, saturate the residential market and hopefully they come out leopard enterprise or something similar. Shouldn't be to difficult a stretch due to the os it is built around.

I am an OS agnostic...everything can have a place in my network as long as its roi is solid and *I* can completely control almost every aspect of it.

Stay tuned boys. Mac will wend its way into larger business share slowly but surely.

Just playing but...

wend?...is that a mac spelling program? :D

Just playing but...

wend?...is that a mac spelling program? :D

It's a colloquialism that appears to be beyond your pathetic and limited bike/windows weenie understanding.

Being despised by Windows Idiots is its own reward. I will PM all of you when Apple revenues surpass those of Microsoft sometime between 2012 and 2014. Stay tuned. Actually by then my Apple stock should be $800+ per share, and I'll hire some Windows sap to notify you for me.

Wow, I'm glad I'm not a geek who gets aroused computers. Thanks for reminding me how good my life is! :beer: Now get back to your mother's basement.

It's a colloquialism that appears to be beyond your pathetic and limited bike/windows weenie understanding.

Wow I am hoping you forgot the smilies face at the end of that, or maybe you are really embittered. I am hoping it is the former...

Thanks though, now I know what wend is...I have never seen that word used before, I tend not to read old English or polish literature. cheers

Wow, I'm glad I'm not a geek who gets aroused computers. Thanks for reminding me how good my life is! Now get back to your mother's basement.

I'm 50, I don't live with my mother. I live with a 14 year old daughter however, so my basement office (the only basement office with 30 mile scenic views) is still a good place for me.

I am long APPL, ADBE, GOOG. I would also be long MSFT, but there's only so much money to go around. I get aroused by appreciating equities more than by computer crap. But what's more fun than pissing off the Windows Weenies?

Pissing off the Freds perhaps, but that's another thread. Actually that's a bottomless pit of threads.

So in 10 years, all Macs will have going for them is a cute GUI. Somehow I think market domination is a long ways off...
Personally, other than their iPod, I hate their GUIs, I can't stand them, can't stand Gnome in Linux either. I run with KDE.

Then again, I miss drive letters in Linux, but a minor thing I guess. Though I still use Windows on my desktop. It is for gaming after all, and I'm pretty frugal, so Macs are way out of my price range (... to end up putting Windows on after all).

Anyway, I really wish a big 3rd developer would get in on the OS market (no not Linux, they're not really a "big developer" so much as a ton of little developers, and it's kind of annoying have 100+ flavors of linux). So we can see a real new set of innovation.

As for Apple, I don't like many of their business practices, actually worse than Microsoft in a lot of ways, their OS is nice and stable, but people still seem to screw that up a lot actually (PEBKAC). Though they lack in administrative use over a network, and don't play well with Windows servers (even Linux does this better, thats pretty sad). I really hope this will pressure Microsoft to re-think Windows all together, and stop rushing garbage to the market (see: I'm not getting Vista... probably ever.), however I don't really want to see Apple on top.


Anyway, being as I've worked with all 3 OSes as a network admin for a year or so, I think I have a pretty fair evaluation about all of them, they all have their strengths and weak points, Apple has the worst customers, the biggest aholes, Windows has the majority of people that have no clue what they're doing, Linux has the largest group of elitists (a special kind of ahole).

As for the OSes, Linux is extremely stable, OSX is pretty good, Windows has improved A LOT, but still could use some work, but people that complain about instability generally don't know how to take care of a computer, me and my network of Windows 2000 machines didn't have issues when kids beat the **** out of them, thats because I knew how to set it up so they wouldn't wreck them.

For business practices, I've never seen someone so locked down as Apple, nor have I seen the main head of a company take so many swings at another company for cheap laughs (Steve Jobs). Microsoft isn't so grand either, but they're somewhat better, and at least they admit their mistakes on Windows (a good step forward, admitting is the first step!), also they RESPECT Apple's accomplishments and learn from them. Linux isn't really a company, but generally the developers do good work, and is mainly for the benefit of people at next to no cost, can't complain.

Software support, of course Microsoft's Windows comes first, most software out there, lots of garbage too. Then comes Linux, lots of software that runs great, it's efficient, Linux is GREAT to program for... then again theres a lot of open source software that runs like ****, and it's oh so fun removing programs that don't come with uninstallers (hint hint!). OSX's software library strength comes from.... running Windows! Seriously thats most people's answer, and while it's a fairly ok one, it gives even less reason for people to develop for OSX. However OSX comes with some of the best multimedia software I've ever seen.

Hardware? Microsoft doesn't really do much hardware, I've only touch gaming controllers and mice, which they all seem nice and my steering wheel seems to have outlived it's drivers (damn!). Apple, people claim their hardware is superior, but working with it, it isn't really, it's got ok hardware, just like the rest of machines, I've had to replace a DVD drive twice and a main board (well Apple replaced the main board, I wasn't involved with that one). I ended up replacing more cost in parts on a single Mac than I did in a room of 10 Dells (Dells needed new floppy drives, and one a new video card due to proprietary garbage they made in that model), and Dell isn't exactly great hardware either, especially those models.


Generally, I don't see Apple as being "better", just an alternative as of right now. It's a good alternative, but you can't say they're all around better without being dumb. I think the Unix core is a great step in the right direction in terms of stability and programmer's support, Microsoft should take a hint as to programmer's support in Unix cored systems.


I run a Windows desktop, I'll be running two Linux boxes at home (One is a server that I use for development, testing, and virtual machines that I use for remote work. The other one is going to be a media center that distributes media across my network and stores it on it's drive, blah blah blah), I wanted to run a virtual OSX system for development purposes, but it's against Apple's EULA, I'm really close to telling them to frack off being as they NEED more developers.

(... Developers, developers, developers, developers! ...)

Apple users have always prided themselves on the prepritory attitude Apple has, in order for Apple to be a major player in SOHO market they are going to have to change that. That means selling them at Wal-Mart for you Apple geeks. I like Macs and I wish more OS's where UNIX driven, however Apple is so far behind in PC/Server world that it is better for it carve out it's own identity then try to keep pace with MS and even SUN for that matter.

Uh huh. I was talking about how they went from $6 billion in annual sales to $30 billion + since 2000. Something's working.

Raising the cost of your products by 250% while making a similar 2.5x increase in what is still a relatively small user base is hardly an accomplishment to take the world by storm.

Raising the cost of your products by 250% while making a similar 2.5x increase in what is still a relatively small user base is hardly an accomplishment to take the world by storm.

BF is a perfect place for idiots like you.

What scares me is that it's also a perfect place for idiots like me. That's F'd up. If I didn't have all these endorphins coursing through my system, that might be upsetting. Happily, nothing bothers me after a good bike ride, and I do that every day.

BF is a perfect place for idiots like you.

What scares me is that it's also a perfect place for idiots like me. That's F'd up. If I didn't have all these endorphins coursing through my system, that might be upsetting. Happily, nothing bothers me after a good bike ride, and I do that every day.
You come in here with nothing but insults, it definitely makes it look like you have no clue what you're talking about.

BF is a perfect place for idiots like you.

What scares me is that it's also a perfect place for idiots like me. That's F'd up. If I didn't have all these endorphins coursing through my system, that might be upsetting. Happily, nothing bothers me after a good bike ride, and I do that every day.

I envy you, to much snow here to do that every day

I like Apple for what they do, BUT until there are more useful financial applications for Macintosh computers, they will see very little light in the corporate world. Being that Microsoft makes the majority of its profit from corporate customers and Apple has yet to successfuly attempt to penetrate this market, I doubt that this fantastical image of a monopoly shift will happen.

They could have at least attempted to segway into mobile e-mail by trying to support some implementation of Microsoft Exchange. Exchange 2007 is not popular in corporate server rooms yet, so it is still possible to use the web interface to retrieve e-mail. Entourage does this; why couldn't iPhone?

For financial people, is Bloomberg even available on the Mac? If it is, is it any good?

I like Apple for what they do, BUT until there are more useful financial applications for Macintosh computers, they will see very little light in the corporate world. Being that Microsoft makes the majority of its profit from corporate customers and Apple has yet to successfuly attempt to penetrate this market, I doubt that this fantastical image of a monopoly shift will happen.

They could have at least attempted to segway into mobile e-mail by trying to support some implementation of Microsoft Exchange. Exchange 2007 is not popular in corporate server rooms yet, so it is still possible to use the web interface to retrieve e-mail. Entourage does this; why couldn't iPhone?

For financial people, is Bloomberg even available on the Mac? If it is, is it any good?
I think the iPhone came down with the Windows syndrome of "we'll fix it in a patch/next gen", it was a real sad turning point in Apple practices IMHO.


Someone give Peter Cotsis a call at his work. ;) I'm sure he'd love to continue this discussion there on his own time. I have this feeling that someone that does CAD trademark work doesn't really have much to say on the industry compared to the numerous admins/programmers/technical/computer science majors (and combinations like me!) that are in this thread.

BF is a perfect place for idiots like you.

Good. I'm in the right place, then. :p

Maybe it's just me being an idiot, but I fail to see what's so idiotic about my statement. I'll admit, the numbers were just pulled out of my backside; but the facts are still that a) Apple's market share, while increasing, is still relatively small and b) the price of Apple's products when compared with Windows based machines of similar capacity are typically higher.
When you're looking to increase market share in a "disposable" materialistic society, the average consumer isn't considering the long-term ROI. They want the affordable quick-fix. Sure, that $1500 Mac might last them 5 years before they feel the urge to upgrade, but the $300 Windows box at Wal*Mart is an affordable throw-away solution to the problem; and in 18 months you can just buy a faster machine for $300 more.

They could have at least attempted to segway into mobile e-mail by trying to support some implementation of Microsoft Exchange. Exchange 2007 is not popular in corporate server rooms yet, so it is still possible to use the web interface to retrieve e-mail. Entourage does this; why couldn't iPhone?


Not sure, but last time I check exchange still support using imap, so as long as you have an imap client it should work fine. Well as long as the admin has opened up imap. If you are talking OWA, well does anyone really use that as the primary client anyways?

I like Apple for what they do, BUT until there are more useful financial applications for Macintosh computers, they will see very little light in the corporate world....
Also, until they get their costs in line. The director of the outfit I used to work for was a Mac fanatic and was always trying to get me to recommend them (I was head of IT). The only problem was that they cost much more, won't run the specialized software or hardware businesses need, use proprietary hardware and interfaces which drive the cost of peripherals way up, and create constant support hassles because of constant low grade incompatibilities with the Windows world. If you're a business, the people you work with predominantly use Windows.

I told the director that I could see no business case whatsoever for Macs in our environment and would order them only under protest since we were tight on funds. What I am at a loss to understand is why people make such a big deal of being a "Mac person." Is clicking on an icon that opens a browser or document really that different? Is it really that much harder to change the sound and display on one platform or the other? But hey -- cool styling's what a machine is really about and if we experience trouble, we can just blame the rest of the world for not doing things our way...


Exchange 2007 is not popular in corporate server rooms yet, so it is still possible to use the web interface to retrieve e-mail.
We looked into Exchange because the calendaring is decent, but didn't run it for the same reasons we didn't run Macs -- poor value for the money.

You come in here with nothing but insults, it definitely makes it look like you have no clue what you're talking about.

In addition to the insults, I offer insightful Apple posts, Fred analysis and Pcad Cycling Zen. Don't short Pcad. And besides all that, since when do you have to know what you're talking about to post on BF? I see no evidence supporting that contention whatsoever.

Wow I am hoping you forgot the smilies face at the end of that, or maybe you are really embittered.

Of course I'm embittered. And those smiley face icons put me over the friggin edge. I have no doubt those little insipid graphics factored into Columbine in some way, but we'll never really find out. If it wasn't for cycling I would have already done something drastic. Be happy the worst thing I do is come here and aggravate all the weenies.

That there is the key. Apple seems intent on following the Bose business model - which is to make cool stuff, and market it to the suckers who don't mind paying twice what it ought to cost. That model needs to be modified, or 15% market share will never happen.

Im hot and cold on mine.......I like it because it spools right up and I dont have to
devote so much time and money to cleaning out spyware, virus's and stuff like that.
Plus, Garageband might be the coolest standard software bundle in the history of computing :D
On the down side, comes with no useable office software, is overpriced and my HD went at 6
months and was bugger-all to get fixed. Im going to get back into art and for that Im
going back to a good ole HP PC.
As with anything, I guess it depends what your personal priorities are.

On the down side, comes with no useable office software.

Windows boxes do? Don't you have to buy MS Office? You can buy that for the Mac. I use it daily and interface with clients who are mostly on Windows - with no problems.