"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - 380 Watts for four minutes. Boo-yeah.

Just went in for the second pre-altitude study test; they told me that I got 380 watts on one four minute test, 375 on the other. Ever the optimist, I believe them.

I only had 354 as a max for all of 2007 (and that was on-road). My stretch goal for '08 was to increase that by 10% to 386.... and for 2008 my min race weight will be 140-145 lbs, too, instead of 152-158 for '07.

I'm happy. Just thought I'd share.

Sweet! Now if you can just get up to 550 for a couple of 9 second pulls and recuperate at 350 you'll make a fine team pursuiter. :)

Right now I sprint at 380 though; good job.

Sweet! Now if you can just get up to 550 for a couple of 9 second pulls and recuperate at 350 you'll make a fine team pursuiter. :)

Right now I sprint at 380 though; good job.

lol

Or hold 550 for 4.15 you'll be Olympic pursuit champion.

My audio system puts out more watts than that.

So you're saying I need to upgrade my subwoofer?

lol

Or hold 550 for 4.15 you'll be Olympic pursuit champion.

I'm not knocking Wiggins, and it's completely beyond my realm of comprehension, but that's all?

I was expecting 600+...

I'm not knocking Wiggins, and it's completely beyond my realm of comprehension, but that's all?

I was expecting 600+...

600 is what the guys at the front of a 4:00 team pursuit are doing. The guys in the line are "recovering" at about 400.

I think I've numbers that the average power in a good kilo is about 700 W (for a few seconds more than a minute), but the peak might be 2500 W at the (standing) start for a few seconds.

I'm not knocking Wiggins, and it's completely beyond my realm of comprehension, but that's all?

I was expecting 600+...


Dunno about Wiggo. McGee used to mention 550w IIRC

My audio system puts out more watts than that. So does the average dog. If Rover could reach the pedals he'd be Olympic champ.

This was lifted from fixedgearfever. No comment on the accuracy.


IP tends to go steady laps at 450 - 500 watts whereas TP tends to do one lap at 600 - 800 watts (with second, third and fourth positions doing 500's, 350, and 325 watts respectively)

This was lifted from fixedgearfever. No comment on the accuracy.

Was that from Coggan?

The numbers I posted were from a paper from the Australian Institute of Sport, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th riders all looked like they were putting out about the same power (4th was slightly lower). 325-350 seems pretty low for the back of a fast TP.

AIS would know. Only them and the GB team would have lots of data on a 4.00 TP.:p

Thats cool, what cat are you? 1?

600 is what the guys at the front of a 4:00 team pursuit are doing. The guys in the line are "recovering" at about 400.

I think I've numbers that the average power in a good kilo is about 700 W (for a few seconds more than a minute), but the peak might be 2500 W at the (standing) start for a few seconds.

Interesting, my best 1m power is 721W from my interval workout Monday, and I had to shift chainrings halfway through (small to big). My max for my 1m intervals is only 1200-1400W though.

We need a velodrome here.

ElJamoquio, congrats. I'm at 421W for 4:00, but I'm 178 lbs. I really fall off in longer efforts :o

It's getting better though.

Thats cool, what cat are you? 1?

Errrrr.... 4. Unfortunately, no hills here, and I have no fast-twitch muscles.

....SANDBAGGER!

Congrats Matt. I'm probably at about 180 watts right now. Damn mono/3 and a half weeks off the bike.

Errrrr.... 4. Unfortunately, no hills here, and I have no fast-twitch muscles.

Exceptionally lame excuse. Stop racing like an idiot, more like. Use your strengths.

I know. I know. I'm working on it.

Was that from Coggan?

The numbers I posted were from a paper from the Australian Institute of Sport, and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th riders all looked like they were putting out about the same power (4th was slightly lower). 325-350 seems pretty low for the back of a fast TP.
not acoggan, that's why I didn't comment on the accuracy. he did tell me where to find it but it wasn't worth all that.

Just went in for the second pre-altitude study test; they told me that I got 380 watts on one four minute test, 375 on the other. Ever the optimist, I believe them.

I only had 354 as a max for all of 2007 (and that was on-road). My stretch goal for '08 was to increase that by 10% to 386.... and for 2008 my min race weight will be 140-145 lbs, too, instead of 152-158 for '07.

I'm happy. Just thought I'd share.

Did they zero the meter correctly????

If those numbers are remotely correct, you should be able to attack 5k out all the way to the 3s.

Re: Zero'ing the meter

After hearing the numbers, I asked about the cal. They were confident it was correct, but I have no way of verifying.

On the optimism side:

1. The 354 number was 5 minute, not 4.
2. I hadn't tested my max 5 minute since ~June, if memory serves. Of course I'd done intervals, but always at least ~3 or so; not trying to 'set a record' as I was in this case. I think my fitness peaked in late October last year.
3. I've been focusing on VO2 work more than anything else the last two months.


Re: ElJamoquio sucks at racing

1. Sometimes I get really bored during flat crits. Ill-advised attacks seem spectacularly fun.
2. I've only done 11 mass-start races. In my only race as a 4, I finished sixth. I had been caught in two breakaways up to that point. They went too early, but I figured going OTF with a Priority Health guy is always a good idea.
In another race I thought it was XX minutes + 2 laps, and it was + 3 laps.
In a lot of the others I certainly didn't have the fitness I did later in the year.
3. One weakness is that I make much more power in the hoods than in the drops/aero-bars. I'm trying to spend almost all of my tempo time in the drops/aero this winter to help.
4. You're right, I *do* suck.


Thanks all for the kind words...

I'm curious, what's you FTP?

If those numbers are remotely correct, you should be able to attack 5k out all the way to the 3s.

With some guy sitting on his wheel doing 270 (assuming he even gets away) to come around fully rested in the last 50 m.

I'm curious, what's you FTP?

Best twenty minute was 320 watts.

Best one hour was 285, part of a 2.5 hour 270-watt 'tempo' ride.

FTP? I really don't know. 300 sounds too high to me, but that's what the numbers seem to work out to (for October 2007). Right now I've been lazy and calling it 'base', doing a mix of VO2 and tempo work, but not much FTP work. FTP intervals sap me mentally.

I think 300 is reasonable given the other numbers, maybe more. You're about where I am at 20 lbs. less. Race efficiently and you'll mop them up. Watch out for the sprinters though. In the 4s, blazing away in the last 5k makes a lot of sense because so many will be reluctant to chase (saving themselves for the finish). If you go from about 15 places back when the pace is already high, you're likely to not have any followers.

We'll be looking for the race reports :beer:

This isn't as demoralizing as the other power thread. :) My 20 minute is 290, tested a few days ago (first test). I'm doing almost 100% zone 1/2 work. The test was the first time I'd seen zone 4/5 in 6 weeks.

I was actually measuring 25 minutes, so my true 20 minute might be a few W higher (he hopes...). I dunno. 25 min was 284W. My race weight is about 167lb.

Just another cat 4.

EDIT: Crap. Just read the OP's race weight.

Ok, well, my W/kg denominator is height-hampered, but the numerator is looking better. Today I did longer hill repeats and busted my 5-minute power record, nailing 398W, but that only comes out to 4.91 W/kg :o

I am up from 365W in 30 days though :D The SST and longer intervals are treating me well. Frigging PowerTap has just LAUNCHED me off my last fitness plateau.

I don't know where my FTP is, but it has been moving up at the same rate as my 5m power, two rows below.

jesus, this just maybe the thread that pushes me over the edge to get a power meter! Must resist urge...

:o

awesome info!!!

uh, try holding it for 4 hours, then come to talk to us...

Sutherland not only placed 3rd in the Australian Road Championships, but his entire race equated to an enormous 381 normalized power for 4+hrs.

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/01/trainingpeaks-users-take-1st-and-3rd-in-mens-aussie-road-champs.html

gr

uh, try holding it for 4 hours, then come to talk to us...

Sutherland not only placed 3rd in the Australian Road Championships, but his entire race equated to an enormous 381 normalized power for 4+hrs.

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/01/trainingpeaks-users-take-1st-and-3rd-in-mens-aussie-road-champs.html

gr

Sick.

(I like those Silence-Lotto jerseys. Much improved over Predictor)

That file is pretty mind boggling. Normalized to 381 watts for 4 hours?!?!?! He has his FTP set way to low. No way he was at .963 IF for that long.

That file is pretty mind boggling. Normalized to 381 watts for 4 hours?!?!?! He has his FTP set way to low. No way he was at .963 IF for that long.

Agreed. The chatter on the power forum is that his FTP is set too low and/or the slope on his SRM is off. We'll see. Those numbers make him a grand tour contender.

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/122bc93d861dd990?hl=en

jesus, this just maybe the thread that pushes me over the edge to get a power meter! Must resist urge...

:o

awesome info!!!

Don't resist...get one!

I just got mine last week and I love it! I've already logged over 10+ hrs (400km)! It's humbling, but, it certainly allows you to focus-in on specific zones to get in a perfect workout! It will definitely be helping me to train smarter with my limited time.

When you get one (and, you will), get the book: Training and Racing with a Power Meter, by Allen/Coggan. And, buy a copy of WKO+ from Cyclingpeaks!

I'm not sure I understand...given that Sutherland's average wattage for the entire 4 hr. race is 288w (haven't downloaded the file, just looked at the image on that page linked above), wouldn't this be an example of an NP-buster: NP of 100w over the average power? That or something is seriously screwy. The numbers look very impressive, but not superhuman.

Shouldn't everyone really be quoting watts per kilogram ?? Watts by itself doesn't take into account the weight of the rider. A 140 lb rider is naturally going to produce less watts than a lard butt like me, but doesn't need as much wattage to get going.

I have no power meter, but am getting curious about my numbers.

I'm not sure I understand...given that Sutherland's average wattage for the entire 4 hr. race is 288w (haven't downloaded the file, just looked at the image on that page linked above), wouldn't this be an example of an NP-buster: NP of 100w over the average power? That or something is seriously screwy. The numbers look very impressive, but not superhuman.

I don't have cyclingpeaks, so I have no clue what my NP was, but I averaged 260w for 2:40 last summer. That was exactly 4w/kg at 65kg. I know that my FTP was over 300.

That said, I'm very sure that a professional bike racer will be able to put out 288 for 4hrs. And he probably has a much higher FTP w/kg than I do. So, those numbers are completely believeable for a race that had a significant climb and descent, each and every lap.

, wouldn't this be an example of an NP-buster: NP of 100w over the average power?

No, "NP buster" refers to the relationship b/w NP and FTP, not NP and AP. An NP buster is a ride of > 1 hour where NP > 105% of FTP. A high NP compared to AP just means that the power output was highly variable. The Aussie nats course was basically a 5km climb (high power) followed by a 5km descent (low power), repeat 16 times.

Shouldn't everyone really be quoting watts per kilogram ??

Yes. And Rory's 381w NP @ 75kg is still 5.1 w/kg for 4 hours, which is damn impressive. On a very different part of the athletic spectrum, when I start VO2max work in a couple weeks, I'll be repeating ElJ's 4'@380w 5 times per workout ... too bad for me that I weight 20% more than him.

I'd put money on his SRM being off. He is good, not that good. 75kg is not that heavy.

it was already "proven" on the wattage group that it probably is accurate, they have a program or something that looks at his power data and computes the elevation change and it is accurate enough to prove that his power output is accurate as well.

it was already "proven" on the wattage group that it probably is accurate

I called it a "rough filter."

Shouldn't everyone really be quoting watts per kilogram ??

Speaking of which, my mistake earlier...I misread Sutherland's weight. At 75-78 kg those numbers do seem in line with his abilities, though looking at the elevation plotting discussion I'm still not totally convinced about something NOT being at least slightly wacky.

390 today. Three more tests to go.

Errrrr.... 4. Unfortunately, no hills here, and I have no fast-twitch muscles.

If you've only done 11 races, I would assert you dont really know yet what you're good at and whether you have "fast twitch" muscles or not. Power #s can give you good indication, but they don't tell the whole story, add race results to them as well as how those results were obtained and then you have a complete picture.

The power #s you post are really impressive, we're about the same size and I dont come anywhere close to the Ws you're throwing down. You should win races as a 4, be fit enough to upgrade before summer and be competitive at that level if you're racing with any sense at all.

Final update.

I discussed the results right after the final test here. (http://thejamoke.blogspot.com/2008/02/results.html)

But I got a letter from the principal investigator today, giving me a little more detail. I'm going to ask for some of the info from the blood samples they took, too.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/eljamoquio/letter.jpg



Bottom line is that I was quite ill for that last test, and perhaps wasn't 100% for the second-to-last. I didn't even want to go get tested, but I figured they (and I) had a bunch of time invested.

Thanks for the follow up.

Have you noticed that the test with the highest wattage elicited one of the lowest heart rates, and that this test preceded infection? What was your weekly volume and TSB during that week? above or below normal?

PS

I think the power profile chart is pretty weak for around here too. The roadie crowd is small and the cat 5->4 upgrade requires points, not just starts. It makes for a "all roadies are serious" kind of situation with much less spread in ability. Weak guys quit, and the strongest move away...

ElJamoquio, those numbers are almost exactly the same as mine (304w, 138-141lbs put me only marginally higher) and I race in the 2's. Sounds like my 5s and 1min may be a bit higher, but STILL, you had better be winning cat 3 races by the end of the season!

jesus, this just maybe the thread that pushes me over the edge to get a power meter! Must resist urge...

:o

awesome info!!!

I feel your pain, but I gave in and bought the power kit for my Polar. I got it installed 2 nights ago and have only ridden on rollers with it so far. I got it used from a teammate so I didnt pay a whole lot for it. It seems to be working quite well and I think i have it installed correctly. I havnt done any of the tests yet but so far its looking like i need a lot of work!

I did a set of 3x3 min high cadance (110 rpm) VO2 max intervals (i forget what CTS calls them), with 3 min rest between, bringing my HR upto 95% of max. What i averaged over a 3 min period is 260w @ 168 bpm @ 23 1/2 mph. This is consistent for all 3 intervals. The avg HR for the intervals shows i have plenty of room for improvement as 168bpm is only 88% of my max HR of 191. Some other relavant numbers. Im weighing in at 220lbs and going down, my tires were pumped to 120psi and my rollers are 85mm in diameter. Looking at these numbers, i think its a good thing that the only racing im involved with is officiating as I think id get spanked in flat cat 5 race. I really shouldnt have sat on my butt for nov, dec, jan and half of feb. My peak A race (district TT) isnt until the first week of August, so I do have plenty of time.

Go ahead and give in and get the meter.

This isn't as demoralizing as the other power thread. :) My 20 minute is 290, tested a few days ago (first test). I'm doing almost 100% zone 1/2 work. The test was the first time I'd seen zone 4/5 in 6 weeks.

I was actually measuring 25 minutes, so my true 20 minute might be a few W higher (he hopes...). I dunno. 25 min was 284W. My race weight is about 167lb.

Just another cat 4.

EDIT: Crap. Just read the OP's race weight.

I'm about 10 watts less, 3 pounds more, and I still managed to scam my way into the 3s somehow.